Ford Expedition

sweeney5 · February 2003

Ok so we bought our Expy 2003 on Jan 2nd. I had posted that we had been holding our speed without presing the gas and not changing up the gears appropriately. We have now had it in the shop 4/5 times and have had a loaner (taurus) more time than we have had the truck. It started a ratcheting noise in 2H and a clunk sound when decelerating. they replaced the S clip (?) according to the service bulleting which cleared the ratcheting noise. the clunk, though now a little muffled continues. The gear selection seems a lot better. The mechnanics gav eus the BS lline (I think) that they all clunk like this - its a known problem at Ford and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm sorry but we just paid big$$ for a truck that clunks every time you slow down to a stop or accelerate quickly. Any advice - where do we go from here. my wife wants a new truck....as she is sick of takiing it into the shop and cramming our 3 kids (thats why we bought a truck) into a Taurus.

davant · February 2003

As in Lemon Law?

jrc346 · February 2003

So the only problem that hasn't been fixed is the drive line clunk? I sympathize with you in that your new Expedition has given you grief. It seems like the techs are working to fix the issues and if the drive line clunk gets fixed then your Expy should be fine. If you live in a state with a good lemon law just mention your trouble to the selling dealer. Chances are that if you have them work on the same component 3 times and fail to fix it the 3rd time then you have good grounds for a buy back. If it comes to buy back Ford my just put you in another new Expy to avoid labeling your old Expedition a Lemon. That is just one option. Another option is to give them one more chance to fix it. If they do then you can move on and finally be able to enjoy your Expedition. Its been a while since I have had continuous problems with a vehicle, so its harder for me to relate. I can understand though how your hopes for a trouble free vehicle can plummet after your mess. Something to consider though. I have been floating around these boards for sometime now. There have been two issues that I have noticed with the new Expeditions. 4WD whine (dealer has a fix) and power drivers side front seat problems. So maybe the worst is behind you? I wish you much luck in getting your vehicle working correctly.

sweeney5 · February 2003

Thanks for your advice. My concern with the whole Lemon Law thing is that 'they' (dealership and Ford)are now saying that it is 'normal operation' for the vehichle to do this. I have never had any vehichle do this before. If its normal do I have alemon leg to stand on?

sweeney5 · February 2003

Not sure if this posted twice but here goes - ford Consume r advise and dealership are now saying that the clunk occurs in all 2003 Expy's and it is 'normal' - they confirmed that even if I bring it in to them there is nothing they can do to fix it...

jrc346 · February 2003

If I were you I would do the another website called flatratetech.com. You have to sign up with a screen name and password ect. But there are honest Ford Techs there that might be able to help you out with your problem. If you share your concern they may be able to help out;-) When there is a clunk in your drive line and it doesn't cause any other problems it may be hard to diagnose. Keep in mind I am certainly not a tech so I don't know this for sure...It's just a guess as to why they are giving you this BS. Again I wish you luck. Just try to keep thinking (as hard as it may be at times) that things will get better :-) Keep us updated!

alwaysfords · February 2003

Usually for lemon laws you need to prove that the offensive situation has impaired either the safety or value of the vehicle. Saying you do not like the sound or feel of the clunk probably will be a tough sell unless you can tie it to a problem it may cause (also a tough thing since you don't know what is actually making it to begin with). Have you driven others to see how yours compares? If the others have it, then there is going to be little to do beyond what they have already told you. Lots of vehicle lines / models have common chronic problems. Sometimes there is a fix, sometimes not.

davant · February 2003

I think the dealer is clunk-stumped and feeding you piles of bovine manure (aka guessing). Does anyone who has the TSB still have problems like post #1082? I thought I'd be bummed to have 2WD until now.

The dealer should share info on problems they're told by mother Ford are expected, acknowledged, blah-blah-blah, everything but acceptable/normal. I think they were normal before the TSB, not after. Maybe the TSB was designed under the 'lets fix 80% of the problem' theory (all ratcheting, most of the clunking). You could e-mail Caroline913 to see what it took to buy hers back as it got to a point the dealer suggested that happen. Making yourself a major pain could put the dealer on your side. You could ask to be hired by the dealership while you're in for service and might even sell a few, offsetting the headaches. During service periods insist on a vehicle comparable to your Expie, even used, they'll do it. It's a darn shame you get no compensation for your time, effort, and discontent and I know that hurts after spending all this money. That's what's wrong with this country, not enough lawsuits...just kidding! You could as suggested, drive another one or more but I doubt the dealer will want their stock as your testbed.

You certainly have more patience than I do, I would have started to squeeze the lemon awhile back. What's the drawback of doing so? As Alwaysfords said worst case you remain as is with ongoing maintenance & problems, or better yet you get another Expie just like it, best case you get a full refund. The demon spawn mirror memory fiasco is wadding my jockeys but I don't consider it Lemon Law material and a TSB will be out by spring. I think the L/Law is as our brochure sort of says, to provide the consumer relief when the dealer can't correct a defect in three attempts that causes loss or impaired vehicle use, not defective seat heaters/controls or strange noises. I do think you've done the right thing thus far and if no progress is made it's not to late to change the game. Keep us in the loop, lemons are sometimes sweet and sour.

tonyd39 · February 2003

Well I was all set to pick up my "new" XLT today. This is a dealer demo with 5k miles on it since it was made last July/August. The dealer was offering it to me at $1,500 below invoice which I thought was a fair price. This was also approx $ 6,500 below MSRP. Additionally I qualified for $3,500 in Ford rebates. So all in all I thought the deal was pretty fair. Now the dilema ... I was supposed to pick up the car today. However last night I stopped by just to look at it one more time before I signed the papers today. It was late and the dealership was closed. To my suprise my soon to be XLT was parked in front of the dealership body shop. Someone apparently backed into it while it was on the dealers lot. Damage included the rear bumper and tail light. The dealer did not inform me of this when I called to arrange for a time to pick up my new XLT this morning. I at first played dumb to see if they would say anything. They didn't and then I brought it up. Their response was that they were going to inform me when I did in fact come in to sign the papers. Now I have been dealing with this dealership for 17 years. I have always had very good experiences with them and right or wrong I will take them at their word for this. After I brought it up they informed me of what happened and said that they replaced the rear bumper today along with the rear tail light. There was no damage to the body or frame as it was only backed into on the lot. They also had to paint the new bumper to match the color of the truck. Soooo ... I said OK then what additional discount can you give to me now that this 6 month old demo with 5k miles on it has been in an accident. The answer is that all they can do is offer me a 5 yr/60k mile extended warranty. I was hoping to receive this plus an additional reduction in the selling price. My questions are as follows: (a) this Expie does have everything in it that I want. A new Expie with the same features will most likely be at a minimum $500 above invoice which means approx $2,000 more then this vehicle. Should I take this vehicle as is with no additional discount? Or should I demand an additional price reduction and if not received take my business elsewhere knowing that I will end up paying $2k more for the same options but for a brand new XLT? (b) do I have any legal recourse here which would require the dealer to offer a new, different XLT with the same features as this demo and at this demo price? As I stated I did not sign any papers yet but my bank, insurance company, and dealer did fax the purchase agreement and insurance binders to each other and I did verbally agree to buy this vehicle so the process was underway.

davant · February 2003

Tony,

As you will see or have seen this is a double post too from you know where:

If you want it and can be allowed to verify elsewhere there's no frame damage, get the best compensation you can and go for it. Since you haven't signed anything you can walk too, no legal recourse as there was no binding contract yet, you agreed to buy the vehicle before the damage anyway. If they waited for you to sign to mention it there might have been. Probably not worth the aggravation of going there though. Don't think the dealer can do much more than they are and it wasn't their fault it happened. They were hesitant it'd blow the deal already so they threw in the extended warranty. Try pushing your luck and ask for the 100K/6yr zero deductible Platinum ESP plan, that's about $2,000 worth I think. Every vehicle is used once you drive away so if they fix the minor damage who will know or care but you? One more thing, pray they don't read this post, LOL

tonyd39 · February 2003

Davant -
I will take your advice and ytry for the better platinum 100k mile coverage. The only other thing I am [planning on doing is getting the tires checked out (as per my email with the "wave/bubble" effect in the sidewalls.
Thanks

alwaysfords · February 2003

The damage you are fussing over really isn't anything from the dealers point of view. Cars get hit and damaged all the time on lots and in transit. Many of the cars you see all nice and pretty in the sun have already had work done to them. There is a $ limit for the dealer to disclose damage - I think it is $500 or $1000. So basically any vehicle with less damage than that can be sold as brand new. Most buyers are none the wiser. You wouldn't have been had the damage happened so close to the time you were taking delivery. If you didn't stop by that night and hadn't been picking it up the next day it would have been all taken care of. Both the tail light and bumper are easy bolt on parts. My advice is to take the extra warranty they are offering you, be happy with the deal you got, and drive home. Besides, there isn't really any reason the dealership couldn't ink the same deal with someone who doesn't know about the damage and save the cost of the warranty.

pmmorgan · February 2003

I have a '99 Expedition EB with the "Power Signal" outside mirrors. I have noticed over the last year or so that the mirror surface is getting scratched/discolored and becoming hard to see thru.

I am getting the impression that it is not glass and in fact think it might be some type of metal that allowed for the "signal light" to be embedded in the mirror itself. Beginning in 2000, they moved the signal lights outside of the mirror surface. Coincidence...probably not.

Anyone else have this problem or know of a solution ?? Any comments/help appreciated.

alwaysfords · February 2003

There was defect with the mirror glass in 99. I had both of mine replaced under warranty in 2000.

davant · February 2003

Tony,

Don't 'take' my advice, go with your wifes' wishes, you'll win no matter what you drive. Alwaysfords is smart & made some very good points, it is minor, hardly worth sweating. I still think a body shop (not the dealerships) check would be worth your time just in case. I'm sure you'll feel silly later but what if there is damage? You'd have little recourse, BSTS (better safe than sorry). If the dealer has a problem with that run, they're hiding something.

You could also wait to purchase until it's repaired instead of getting a 'We-owe' pink slip if it's not right. I hate to say play it for all it's worth but that would work. Sounds like you have a good dealer willing to go one step further than needed to make you their customer. Like A'Fords eluded, many of us will never know if this happened to ours too before we got them. At least you got something for nothing, feel lucky. You'll be driving what I consider the best SUV out there, feel twice as lucky!

sbpowell · February 2003

Does anyone have the lastest money factor and residual percentage that are being used for 2003 Ford Expedition leases?

stever · February 2003

Also try Car_man over in Lease Questions - Ask Here.

Steve, Host

joe78733 · February 2003

Does anyone know of anywhere to get info on the Nav system used on the Expedition? I would like to take a look at features etc on line, but can not find any reference anywhere to the system used on the Expedition. I would like the toy, but would like to see a little about it's operation, screens etc if at all possible. Dealers definitely don't seem to know much about then. Thanks.

gteach26 · February 2003

Try www.navtech.com -- they make the CD-based navigation system my '03 Lincoln Navigator has and I think it is the same for the '03 expedition based on pics I've seen. The system is quite functional, just not as pretty as the DVD based systems and no touchscreen. The Navigator is getting a Denson DVD based navigation system in a few weeks/months -- perhaps the expy is next???

This link takes you to the instruction manual for the Navigation system on the Navigator. I hope it works for you. Host: If I'm breaking any copyright rules or linking rules please remove this. Thanks!
https://web.msslib2.dealerconnection.com/RightSite/getcontent/myf- ile.pdf?DMW_OBJECTID=09000c588032566c

tidester · February 2003

This link takes you to the instruction manual for the Navigation system on the Navigator.

No problem!

tidester, host

stever · February 2003

"the Expedition offers the first fold-flat rear seat in a full-size SUV"

Full Test: 2003 Ford Expedition

Steve, Host

cjwells · February 2003

Wow it is slow on this board. I guess that is a good thing. No news is good news.

califjohn · February 2003

when the new 3v engine will actually get into the new Expys? Nissan's new full size SUV, the Armada, will have a 360 hp V8, the new Chev/GMC will offer about the same hp, even Toyota is bumping up the Sequoia hp (probably to compete with Nissan) but Ford seems reluctant to get out in front on this. The 3v has more hp & torque and is supposed to get better milage (which is really needed).

brads03expy · February 2003

I personally don't like all these horsepower wars going on. They keep making the peak torque numbers at higher and higher RPM's to get the higher horsepower numbers. I have a 2003 Expy 4X4 and love the low end grunt this thing has. If I was drag racing or passing people out on the highway ALL the time then the horsepower ratings would be a huge factor to me. These "higher" horsepower numbers (engines) are at the redline or near it. (the 2V 5.4L peak horsepower is not near the redline)I haul and tow, and don't really
don't want to run the motor at high RPM's to get alot of power out of it. Give me more torque, and better MPG! That's what I want!!

davant · February 2003

I agree with Brads and am very happy with the current 5.4L engine performance (2WD EB). A MPG improvement is always welcome of course. If you look past raw numbers (that Ford tops in '03) you'll see they retuned the 5.4 for broad performance weighted to low end 'grunt' this year, what you use every day without getting on it. I expect the 3v will further improve this utility, not futility. Other manufacturers will continue 'one-up-manship' but pay special attention to RPM's versus Torque. If you plan on churning 4,500 RPM's at a red light go for it, I drive an SUV, not a Spec-UV and don't care who peaks highest, usability is the key. I may even laugh as I watch you fade into the sunset only to catch the next red light and pull up noticing your dipping fuel gauge. When gas reaches $2.50 a gallon I guess we'll all stop laughing and rethink the HP wars eventually waking up the designers. At that point your GM or imported 20 extra ponies & twisties won't matter much. The Armada (almost A-Dam-Ram backwards) is promising and appears to mock the Expie in every way. I'm sure Steve, our host-with-the-post will drop in any time now and provide you an Armada/Titan link.

stever · February 2003

2004 Nissan SUV (full size)

Nissan Titan

:-)

Steve, Host

ranwin33 · February 2003

My dealership wants to charge me $360 for the prescribed 30,000 mile maintanence work. Is this reasonable and is it necessary?

stever · February 2003

Check out The Edmunds Maintenance Guide for scheduled service recommendations and cost estimates.

Steve, Host

whome30 · February 2003

Ok, all I have a question - have a 2003 expedition and the manual (and online at Ford Web Site Specs state that the roof rack limit is 200 pounds.

Then I get told that the crossbar limit is 100 pounds and I need better crossbars to carry 200.

SO, does anyone know the answer - is it 100 or 200 and whats the deal. Why say 200 if it is only equipped to carry 100.

rs6 · February 2003

I have 99 expy with both mirrors exibiting same trouble my dealer was not much help. Has any body had any luck resolving this problem. First expressed on this board by pmmorgan.This truck is now long out of warranty.Thanks

explorerx4 · February 2003

My 30k service, jan-02, on my ex-expy was more than edmunds estimate, but it never ran better than when i got it back. It may help your relationship with the dealer too. They actually get paid to do it, as opposed to some their warranty work. I'll break down the charges:
labor 4hrs: 263, air filter: 19, fuel filter: 24, pcv: 5, oil filter: 5, trans filter & seal: 35, 2 gallons coolant: 8, balance 2 tires: 12, 6 qts oil: 10, 15 qts atf: 35, environmental fee: 9, sales tax: 25.

califjohn · February 2003

might not be too far in the future for Expy (and 150's). The diesel option seems to be getting back in the trade press (Automotive News for one) again. The buzz seems to be a "detuned PSD 6.0" in the F-150 (could they be really talking about the Navistar V6 "baby diesel") and probably in the Expy as well. This would fit in with the GM Duramax diesel in the 05 'burbs and Jeep's sweet little italian VM diesel in the Liberty( April Four Wheeler) as the industry begins to offer oil burners in the light duty segment. Things are looking up for the torque and milage fans!

rookie102 · February 2003

Is there a "passenger compartment air filter" for 1999 Expedition XLT? How to access this filter, from the engine compartment or in front of the right front passenger? Where can I get a replacement air filter? Price? Thanks.

joeaustin · February 2003

Does anyone know if the Navigation system can be programed with an address while the vehicle is moving? It looks like the function is locked out unless the vehicle is in park. True?
thanks.

94chirodoc · March 2003

I am new to the message board and have read a lot of the posts regarding the 2003 Expedition which I am considering buying. I have checked Edmunds to get an idea on price and wondered if "total market value" includes the dealer profit. I am trying to determine the best price for the vehicle. I am considering a 2003 model Eddie Bauer with DVD and nearly all other features excluding heated seats (which I do not want). I have a 1997 Toyota Landcruiser to trade which they have offered $17K. They also have offered a $2000 rebate. With tax and licensing included, minus the $17K trade in and $2K rebate they offer the vehicle at $25091. That puts the total cost of the vehicle at about $44091 which I think is unreasonable. At what cost range should I be able to get this vehicle? Thanks to anyone with an informed opinion.

aubrey4x4 · March 2003

Does anyone know if there are any plans at Ford to introduce the popular Avalanche-like mid-gate design, or the quadsteer option? Thanks

stever · March 2003

Our True Market Price includes dealer profit. It doesn't include TT&L or manufacturer-to-consumer rebates. Here's a link.

And welcome to Town Hall!

Steve, Host

zman3 · March 2003

I don't know where you are located but Edmunds TMV seems like a fair price to me, BEFORE the rebate. I bought an 03 Expy EB 4x4 back in October in Minneapolis and I paid $100 over Edmunds invoice, give or take a few bucks.

One word of caution however. I see that you have a LC. I think I am much worse off than most owners but here is my laundry list of issues in less than 4K miles of ownership:

1) TSB on front differential due to growling noise.
2) Rear differential is now leaking for the second time.
3) AdvanceTrac module went out and needed to be replaced.
4) New door weatherstripping due to rattling/creaking noises.
5) Numerous other rattles and squeaks.

Maybe I got the lemon of the lot, but if you are expecting Landcruiser reliability I think I'd look elsewhere. We love everything about the vehicle when it's not in the shop.

mlm4 · March 2003

Quadrasteer is a patented Delphi technology. Delphi has an exclusive agreement with GM to put it on their vehicles for the next four or five (?) years, then it will be made available to other manufacturers. Unless Ford invents their own version, don't expect it anytime soon. Don't know whether Ford has anything like the mid-gate in the works (the Explorer SportTrac would be a candidate IMHO).

mardyn · March 2003

After 2000 miles on the new Expy, I'm quite pleased... My big concern about poor fuel milage has not really been an issue. Seems to average about 16.0 mpg most of the time (5.4L 2WD)... and even better on the highway. Drive is good.. much better than my friend's earlier 2001 model Expy, fit and finish is good, no squeaks, no rattles, good price on the deal with a good value put on my trade (2000 F250SD w/PSD) has made the overall deal very easy to justify.
The one thing I don't really like is the complex method necessary to program and control the sound system, outside mirrors and locks. (I could probably figure it out easily by reading the owners manual... but who's got time for that?)...

Here's my question to other 03 Expy owners:
Does there seem to be a slight delay in the starter activation sequence once the key is turned to the start position? Mine seems to have a very slight, almost imperceivable (maybe .400 second) delay... it's never failed to start, an is probably a function of the ECM allowing the fuel rail/system to pressurize before engaging the start-up mode..
Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks
David Berry
DFW, TX

tloftus · March 2003

Any thoughts on the rear-seat DVD entertainment system option...pros and cons? If you went with that option, are you glad you did, how is it working, any problems? My kids are twisting my arm and I'm just not sure. Thanks.

davant · March 2003

Responses by message, subject, and originator:

#1117 - Price - Chirodoc,
Sounds a bit high to me. Try to leave out the trade, say you found a buyer for the LC, and go back. Negotiate the best cash price based on Edmunds TMV (which is darn close to the Consumer Reports report I paid $12 for). I bet you can get to at or below invoice BEFORE the rebate. Leave. Come back later and say the LC deal fell through and you want $X for the LC recognizing you'll never get near wholesale value. Remember that the $2K rebate comes off at the end, after tax & all.

#1118 - Quadrasteer - Aubrey
It's a neat trick but who needs it that bad? Parallel parking is not hard but with this big a beast you can't see well anyway. If you tow and want dressage level maneuvering capability, put a hitch on the front and push, it works very well and is a great conversation piece, really. Ford bought up all the jaw dropping bovine so there won't be any left for GM commercials anyway.

#1122 - St....art - Mardyn
Ours does the same but ever so slightly, maybe .25 secs. It's enough to make you realize there's some wizardry happening but nothing to worry about.

#1123 - DVD - Tloftus
I don't recommend spending the $1200 on the factory DVD. Although it's a good system it blocks some of your rear view and sets too high for second row small children to see easily. I think you're better off with a more flexible portable player. Consider that in the time you own this vehicle (say five years?) DVD's could become the Laserdiscs of today. We considered the built in model but got a 6.8" Audiovox DV-1680 player that sits very nicely on the console (non-skid bottom and thin strap on console lid keep it snug) instead. It was in the mid-300 dollar range and can be held in your lap as well. It has vid in/out for video games, comes with a detachable 3 hr battery, earbuds, remote, and TV hookups. The only drawback is volume isn't on the remote. There are dozens on the market at half the price of the Ford factory player. I don't recommend any of the bag models. We tried 3 versions before settling on the portable DVD. With what you save you could get a player for each child so they can pick their own flicks, think of the silent drives...ahhh.

clpurnell · March 2003

That price is way high unless you have to pay 20+% for tax lol. I would say your car +20k for a fully loaded 4x4 and yours + 18k for a 4x2. As a reference I can buy a 5.4l 4x2 EB with everything excluding nav and heated seats for under 34k here in texas.

clpurnell · March 2003

If you have kids under the age of 15 I would say it is a definite. Drove one for the weekend with dvd and it is now a must have.

zman3 · March 2003

I personally bought an HP laptop - 2.0GHz AMD processor, DVD CD burner combo, 512MB memory, 30 GB HD, 15 Screen, XP Pro (for work) and the price at Bestbuy was $1200. Now I have a laptop for travel also. It is not as convenient as the built in system, but it is a heck of a lot more flexible.

clpurnell · March 2003

I would agree my only problem with laptop/portables are what happens in accident. That is why i prefer the installed systems. Otherwise what you suggested is a great alternative.

zman3 · March 2003

I tend to agree. I guess I'm just playing the odds. I haven't had an accident in 22 years of driving (knock on wood). I'm going to look into a way of strapping it down I just haven't made it a priority yet. The laptop just seemd like too good of a value to pass up. If we took trips every weekend to a cabin or something I would have probably opted for the built in system. I will use my laptop as a computer more than a DVD player for the vehicle.

res1510 · March 2003

I am going to lease a 2003 Black EB 4x2 w/DVD, Moonroof, Safety Canopy, Power 3rd Row Seats, and 5.4 V8 w/an MSRP of $42,410. Edmunds.com indicates that the TMV is $37,226. I am going to lease for 24 months and make a lump sum payment for the entire term at lease inception. If anyone has an informd opinion as to what a fair price for that lump sum is w/brief explanation of how you arrived at that figure, please advise. Thank you very much.

stever · March 2003

That's different.... maybe try asking in the Lease Questions - Ask Here discussion.

Steve, Host

davant · March 2003

Are you one of the silent majority that has trouble with the memory positioning on your 2003 Eddie Bauer Expedition mirrors as in they do their own thing every time you unlock with the fob? I saw elsewhere that the fix, also talked about here several moons ago is released. See your dealer for SSM# 16675
Part# 2L1Z-14C708-BB. At this point I don't know what this even means (hardware, software or both) as they're closed but felt I should pass it on at the earliest opportunity.

Ford Expedition

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