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Also, on the console deal, I lke the main part of the console between the seats, just dont like the extension up to the dash. I'm thinking about getting a regualar truck style console, which is plenty good to hold all my junk.
Anyway, stopped by another dealer this morning and they've offered another $1000.00 bucks for my trade... price difference is now at $10815.00 drive out. That's a pretty good deal I beleive.
('03 Expedition, Eddie Bauer. 5.4L, power rear seat, but no DVD). Any thoughts?
Thanks
David Berry
Regarding the engine stuff. I'm not into the technical stuff although I do remember (as my parents have owned car dealerships since the mid 70's) that those early to mid 80's Fords were nothing to brag about. This was period when many dealers wouldn't even consider a "For Sale" trade opting instead to just wholesale every Ford they took in. Remember the old acronym for F-O-R-D???
And just to be technical. The Explorer has had the option of Electronic Climate Control since it was redesigned for the '95 model year.
But that has all changed now. They are leading the pack with quality (mechanical) and I just don't understand why they are not using the full extent of the technology available.
Although it's not a point I would reject the Expedition for, having the memory linked to the HVAC and Stereo is a big deal to me. My Partner hates the automatic control of the HVAC and likes to always adjust the fan and temp. I, on the other hand, leave it on auto and 69 or 70 at all times.
Because these are small things I'm definitely NOT discounting the Expedition. It just seems like Ford, while they have come a long way, still lags in some areas.
Regarding the issue of the suspension changes. I'm glad they did it for the Expedition but I really think the blame comes from the Marketing people. Until just recently the Full-Size Sport Utes were being designed and marketed to Full-Size truck owners. They are just now realizing that their real customers are just as much Large Sedan/Minivan owners who don't really want a "trucky" feel.
I cannot seem to find much solid technical data on it though, only a brief description that it levels things out when heavily loaded. I need a little more info to make an informed decision if this is a feature I want instead of advancetrac, or if my information is bogus.
Any help would be appreciated. We want to buy before the end of the year.
On older Lincolns, the Air Springs were programmed to fail at about 6 years, and were expensive to replace. I've not seen that failure rate on the trucks yet, but they're just getting to that 6 year mark. We'll see.
Thanks.
Here's my one MAJOR [non-permissible content removed], and while this is not Ford related, I just gotta' vent...
I'm sitting there completing the business transaction on Saturday afternoon, write the check to pay for the thing, they call my bank to verify funds (I'm OK with all of that) and get this... Bank of America will no longer verify a check by phone... only that the account is valid and is active... but absolutely no dollar amount can be verified. I had to stop the transaction, drive over to the branch, and get a cashier's check.
Bank of America is pitiful when it comes to customer service... and you're right... I'm still pissed.
but hey, the new vehicle is pretty nice and I think I'll be pleased with everything except for the crummy fuel milage.
I also heard there is a possibilty of a diesel for the Half/ton Fords (including Expy)in '04. I hope so.
Thanks for listening (reading)
David Berry
I am happy to be rid of the Envoy and THRILLED to drive the Expedition.
With a diesel and maybe the new 5 speed auto transmission, it's likely that I'll trade my new '03 Expy for an '04 if it all comes to pass...
The diesel, coupled with a new transmission should improve fuel economy (my only major [non-permissible content removed]) significantly. I can't believe they have not done it already, but I guess if they can continue selling what's currently available, why change until the current design is outdated...
Anyway, the new Expy continues to do well, I'm headed to Houston the afternoon for a New Years Eve party and I'll report on milage when I return.
Good Luck in the New Year to Everyone!
David Berry
2 other points if you are listening Ford:
power retract mirrors would be great
put an armrest in the middle center seat
Thanks
Dave
I realize it would be easier if they just gave this measurement already, but it's really not something that would keep me from purchase.
I have the nav system. Map clarity is very good, it does recalculate on the fly if you make a wrong turn. It also gives you several options when programming a route such as, shortest distance, quickest route, avoid toll roads, detour, plus a few others. As far as programming an address, it has a small joystick that controls a keyboard on the display, very easy to use. It will even try to autocomplete the address for you.
It also has many features loaded by name such as gas stations, hotels, food, shopping, entertainment, parks, points of interest, and others too numerous to mention.
The only drawback to the system is that there are many small towns in rural areas, it doesn't map, just the major roads going through them. In larger cities it is extremely useful!
Nav Tech is the company that makes the software for the navigation system. They have updates yearly, but I'm not sure on the $$$ of the updated disks.
I have played with the Lexus nav system and it seems to be a step above the Expedition system.
Hope this helps!
Because of my previous doubts about the fuel milage issues, and the fact that I didn't want to know how bad it really was...
Anyway, to make a long story short...
Lightly loaded, two people & clothes, 75 mph for approximately 250 miles, fuel milage was a pleasant 16.6 (according to the trip/milage computer) on the trip down. Needless to say, I was very happy as I was expecting about 14.5 mpg...
On the way back yesterday, set the cruise at 72 mph and (again, according the trip/milage computer) it achieved 18.1 mpg... better than I ever would expect. Again, I'm pretty happy at this point and will actually check the accuracy by the old fashion gallons/miles/division method next time I fill up.
Thanks...
David Berry
I guess the real reason for my anger was that it really embarrassed me more than anything else. I ended up driving to the BofA branch and having a Cashier's Check drawn on my business account to complete the transaction... more inconvienece than real problem, but none the less, I was very agitated when it happened.
No doubt that they have their reasons, but what about me... what if I want to buy something else that is expensive, what if I needed to verify one of my customer's check for my business, why didn't someone notify me (or did they and I didn't pay attention?) and let me know so I could have had the c/c ready when I went to pick up the new ride.
Anyway, I still contend that BofA is pretty pitiful when it comes to customer service and I still do intend on changing banks... Any suggestions?
David Berry
1. It does give warnings. When in NAV mode it tells you how far to the next change. It also announces via voice with plenty of warning.
2. The joystick is kind of a pain to enter destinations, but it does keep the last 50 and you can program "home".
3. You get all the CDs from FORD (Navtech makes it). Then you can order (149 dollars) an updated cd for any region (there are 9 regions).
Overall, it is behind the others. Interestingly enough when at Ford dealer for oil change, was reading the Lincoln Aviator book and it has a dvd based nav system so I wonder when they will change the expedition.
Another thing is that the interstates are on all the CDS so you dont have to change for IS driving unless you want to map a city. If you go to Navtech web site you can see what cities are mapped.
In summary: I am glad I got it and would recommend it. However, if you could find information about a change-over to DVD it would probably be worth it to wait.
Responding from post 993 all they way down to here:
No Expie diesel next year but there will be a 3v (24V total) engine as early as '04. It's just rumor but I heard Ford is making a diesel V-12 with a 10 speed transmission and cutting it in half, LOL. No matter how hard you try the dang things are too noisy & smelly and there's no place to put a spark plug. Want to be innovative? Make diesels quiet & clean, that would be magical.
Power retract mirrors are on the Navigator this year, I'm hoping they move to Ford soon also, at least until Drive-up window & ATM designers realize not everyone considers the Camry a big vehicle.
The center second row armrest would conflict with Ford's 'baby friendly' sliding center seat concept but it does make good sense.
Nav systems are great, Fords is so-so. Consider spending half as much on an after market suction cup mounted model. Don't forget to look out the window and read signs, call ahead for directions, etc. Most of Americas' roads were built before the advent of GPS and have nifty green signs, what a concept. Not being a smart-a**, just don't want you to wreck following the LCD bread crumbs to grandma's house.
Since we're talking after market...save your money on DVD and buy a portable player and strap it to the console. One Audiovox model has a solid non-skid base, offers the same size screen as factory, doesn't block the rear view or sacrifice the sunglass holder (as a DVD with moonroof does) and is about $800 less.
If you're measuring, add almost a foot for each mirror as that's how far they stick out from where they mount. They actually protrude 8-1/2 inches from the step-up side rails using a rudimentary plumb bob. It might be easier to grab a tape measure and head for the dealer if you want to be exact. I'm sure they'll be glad to assist since you could put food on their table.
The Expie Message Center MPG computer lies bigtime! Subtract 1-1.5 MPG. I found this to be consistent and used the same pumps and top off methods over 3 of our 5K miles, you'll see. There's a chat on this and most I've blabbed about at blueovalnews forums too. We have a 2WD EB, 5.4 and loaded with X-mas goodies and two adults got 15.5 at 75-80 over practically level 1K miles. Dropping to 70 saved nada according to the Message Center gods.
The quality issues on our Eddie Bauer Expie are that the right mirror has A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sometimes it forgets to look down when backing up or to look up afterwards. Drugs, therapy, discipline, and encouragement haven't helped thus far. I saw elsewhere there's a software fix for mirrors coming out Q1 of this year.
This is a damn fine vehicle folks, I scrutinize like he** and can't find a flaw otherwise.
1.) I went to have the car aligned at 75,000 miles and they said that I needed 2 tie (spelling?) rods to be preplaced. Should they wear out that quickly?
2.) I have general tires. What should the pressure be in the winter in those tires?
Thanks
I haven't checked the milage since my recent trip to Houston, but will do so next time I fill up on the road.
Other wise the new Expy is doing very well, good quality, good drive out, goo fit & finish....
Overall, pretty decent value for me so far.
It also appears that the new F150 shares many of the design cues/features of the '03 Expy, plus a smattering of stuff from the Super Duty series vehicles.... Anyone have any thoughts on the new F series? I like 'em...
Thanks
David Berry
How dare some idiot accuse me and my family of supporting terrorism because we own an Expedition.
My father and his brothers fought in the WWII war to keep our freedom, my uncle fought in Korea, my two brothers fought in Vietnam to keep us at a point where we remain free and get what we want and keep. Thats the idea of freedom to do what you want and what you can afford.
If these people don't want this country to have individual freedoms then they need to get the hell out and go someplace where someone gives a damm what they want.
My family has paid the price for freedom and so ????? them. Just stay away from me and my family because we deserve better than these crazy people.
Sorry about the lecture.
Frankno1
Steve, Host
tidester, host
If I had to do it over again, I would have waited until they get the bugs out of the system. Oh, also the time required to bring up the system can be from 1-5 minutes depending if you are stopped or moving.
Good Luck.
Is this a good vehile?
I have filed a Lemon Law claim against Ford for
the failure of my driver's power seats. This seat motor has broken/replaced five times in 3 months! The dealer can't fix it, they just order another seat.
They say production problems, but Ford says not.
It started at 50 miles, and I took my Expedition
to North Carolina in December and it broke again.
I had 4800 miles on it. My concern this time was it would stop in a position I couldn't put up with for 500 miles! I bought the 2003 because of the heated seats, BAD BACK! Well my daughter and I noticed the heated seat part stopped, then the back up & down action stopped. It just growls if you adjust the lever. I've sold my 1997 Expedition
with over 99,000 miles. Wish I had never bought this one. I am so unhappy with this problem. I also have the passenger-side mirror not moving down in reverse, plus a head rest that won't go down. Don't think I'm a whiner, just can't stand paying this kind of $$$ and having to see the dealer every couple of weeks. I should have taken the thing back the first day! And, don't even think I got more than 16.5mpg on the highway. What can I do? Help. Thanks, Caroline
Sounds like you're doing the right thing protecting your rights under the limelight of the lemon law, LOL. Even if you get a new seat or the dealer does something to fix it you won't get much better than 16.5 MPG. I sense your unhappiness with gas consumption further heightens your frustration with the seat, could I be right? It's a great vehicle and once you get the minor bugs out I hope you learn to love it for what it is, the best on the market. Recognize your experiences are the exception, not the rule. If you hate the fuel economy trade it, but not because you can force it on the dealer/Ford due to seat troubles. As you know each vehicle carries a window sticker listing expected MPG so you were warned, right? Our 2WD 5.4L said 13/18. A C/H mix is figured 13+18=31 divided by two = 15.5 so 16.5 isn't that bad. We have 6K miles on ours and at best got 17 MPG...ever.
We have the same trouble with the mirrors, I believe we're the rule here, not the exception, crappy software, stay tuned for a fix the first quarter of this year. This and/or a headrest still wouldn't make me unhappy and you're not a whiner, you want what you paid for, a reliable, working vehicle, bells, whistles, the works.
I don't work for Ford, I'm just a cheery 2003 EB Expie owner responding to your frustration that reads between lines a little. Give them all the chances they need to make it right. Think of it like this almost famous quote, "Aggravation haveth no couth or limits, it seizeth a man like tight boxers" (Genesis: 12-1982). OK, I confess, it's my quote not the musical group Genesis and certainly not from the Bible. If you're female forgive me and just imagine. Keep smiling!
the Expeditions. Remember, I owned a 97 till I bought this one. I had to use the Lemon Law, even the dealership suggested this. It's not so much the mileage, I did do better with the last one. Of
course that does cause me to be more unhappy. The
worse part of this is I waited and researched and after all my time and energy I feel I never had that thrill of a new car owner! In just hours after buying this one I was back in service. Also the false hope that each repair would be the last.
I'm over 50 now and on my own, I want to feel safe
when I travel alone up and down I95 and I just have a gut feeling this would go on. Remember they have put three new seats in this in three months! The dealer also found four other EBers with the same problem on his lot. Wonder what those owners are going thru? I think this is my only solution. I am glad you are having a good
time with your's, may you enjoy it for a very long time. Caroline
I tow a Monterey 262 cruiser with my '02 Expy, 5.4 4WD, 3.73 rear. The boat is 28.5' & weighs around 6500# with full fuel & water, around 7700# with the trailer. The Expy handles it with no problem but don't look for great mileage, I get around 10 MPG maybe 12-14 at highway speeds.
10 MPG is rough but hauling all that weight could be worse. I know a great way for you to get about 15MPG and it's so simple...
Give me the boat!
Cheers & enjoy it all you can this time of year.
I'm having trouble with this 18 MPG highway thing on a 5.4 4x4. Are your sure you're not fudging just a scosh or using the Message Center estimation? Try confirming it with a calculator as we humans sometimes make math mistakes by hand, take Social Security for instance. The 5.4 4x4 is rated 13/17 MPG. Even on the highway empty, freshly waxed, downhill both ways, with near hurricane strength tailwinds (both ways) the darn thing just can't get 18 MPG...even if you draft a semi and purr along at 65 MPH. It's practically a porta-potty on wheels and has a terrible drag coefficient of "point-oh-my". Our 4x2 5.4 rated 13/18 without the cooler, tackle and tree stand will get (not per Message Center) 17 MPG tops at 70 MPH over very flat NW FL highways using cruise control. I've verified this over nearly 3K miles using the same exact pumps and top off methods. Are there magic beans in your non-ethanol brew?
jrc346 Dec 2, 2002 2:13pm
Steve, Host
Thanks for the posting-pointer. Unusual that his 18 MPG is on a 1999, ours is an '03 and you would think more aerodynamic being newer. I'm not calling anyone here a liar of course, just trying to avoid the virtual, "My kid beat up your honor student" syndrome. I look forward to K6's feedback but if mileage is that good he (or she) is likely on a cross-country trip...all on a single tank full.
As you eluded the trip computer often reports over-optimistic MPG and folks may willingly overlook it at the pumps. I expect some drive away grinning and thinking 18 MPG after paying a $40 bill but never bother to prove otherwise. Do the math folks, it has a 28 gallon tank, roughly 26 before the idiot warning comes on. That gets you around 470 miles between fill ups at 18 MPG. If anyone with an '03 Expie 4x4 w/5.4L can go that far and still make it another 30 miles to the next exit, my hat (and gas cap) are off to you.
P.S. - If you try it bring your cell phone and a gas can.
I'm not buying 18 mpg either, but maybe I'm just bitter.
And now, we return you to our regular Expie Post already in progress:
Ok, two more (worse) examples:
goukcats Oct 9, 2002 7:44pm (averaged 15.5 2003)
heatmiser1 Mar 31, 2002 4:09pm (only 12-13 MPG - year not stated)
Steve, Host
Thanks