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Luxury tax for 2001 is now at 4% of the amount over $38,000. Not a big deal for the type of cars in this discussion since most are in the $35 -45k range.
I want to know how their service is.
Thanks for your input
2. Shift into drive.
3. Press foot firmly on the throat of mediocrity.
I replace my leased car every three years and have had many different makes over the past 15 years. six months ago my wife leases a (2000) 320... and I can tell you that Mercedes has a level of customer satisfaction that just does not exist anywhere else.. If anyone living in the NY/NJ area is looking for a Mercedes dealer...I would be very happy to recomend ours...prestige MB in paramus n.j.ask for Rudy!
Our salesperson just called to offer a 2001 4-wheel drive QX4 with the sunroof and premium packages (everything but the heated seats and limited slip, which is the Sport package) for $500/mo (all-in including tax, etc) for 48 months, otherwise same terms as existing lease(15k and $.12 per mile over), but nothing down (other than first months payment), no bank fee, no doc/acquisition fee, no cap cost reduction, etc. and they will take us out of our existing QX4 cost free (even tho we're now 6,000 miles over the 15K annumal allowance), no termination charge, etc.
Seems like a great deal to get rid of the current 6,000 excess miles free and to upgrade to new car with vastly-improved 240HP engine, Xenon lights, memory seats, stering wheel audio controls, upgraded interior, etc., since we'd otherwise still be paying $438 for another 14 months to drive the old QX4.
Any thoughts?
The 2001.5 PF LE has it all: leather, memory seats, upgraded stereo and controls, etc.
If you want someone to reassure you on your decision, I'm sure the folks in the QX4 forum would be happy to.
TC
By comparison the deal you by are being offered sucks. They are trying to dump a unattractively eguipped car on you that has become difficult to sell. Unless you plan to hold onto the QX till it literally falls apart, you are throwing good money after bad. The resale on these things is gonna be a major disappointment.
I suggest going into the dealership and bargaining real hard, I assure you it will be from a position of strength. You should be able to get the QX equipped the way you like for no more than $1000 over invoice.
Now that toyota has brought out the Highlander is not the lexus just a dressed up highlander without the extra seating. The acura is a glorified Odessey with all wheel drive.
To get out of your lease and into the vehicle you want with no money down and only a slight payment increase sound like a good deal to me. Push a little to find out if they can get closer to your current payment. If not its probably a good deal.
But there are dealers selling them for $350 over invoice, $3300 off of MSRP. They are trying to give these things away.
The PF LE is still the better value.
Tonychrys: while I respect your preference for saving a few bucks with the Pathfinder, the QX4 has the Nissan Skyline's better adaptive 4-wheel drive system, as well as the other Infiniti amenities and, most important, Infiniti service, loaners, etc. One can sleep equally soundly at a Motel 6 and the Bel Air, but the amenities are nice to have. We did look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee (my wife's prior car), the Bubba-mobile M320 and RX300 (my preference) in round 1 when we chose the '99 QX4.
Bottom line, Inifiniti will deal, the car is a good one and if the package fits, it can be a good deal.
Money is not an object for me, the PF LE simply provides a better value. I say this because the AWD systems in both vehicles are identical. If you can point out that they are not, I'd love to be better educated. If the Infiniti customer service helps you sleep better at night, great. I will not dispute this factor since it is subjective.
FYI, we ended up getting a fully loaded '01 RX300 AWD Nav two weeks ago. It is simply a safer vehicle overall than both the QX4 or JGCL.
I wish you many happy miles with the Q. I know it's reliable because we just came off of a '97 PF lease.
TC
It's interesting to note that this monthly matches the lease deal the lexus dealers are offering. I read somewhere that Lexus sold more than Rx 300 in 2000 than infiniti did for their entire line. Just about every comparison test I've seen for the lux suv segment shows the QX finishing dead last. With the economy the way it is Infiniti will be offering huge discounts on these things by summer, mark my words.
BTW, I was ready to buy a QX but the dealer dicked me around so badly during negotiations that I suddenly anounced that I was headed across the street to buy an RX 300. The sales manager sent the salesman out to try to pull me back in, but I was done with them. I took delivery of my RX a week later. My RX has been trouble free (nearly perfect in every way), I beleive it is a marginally better car but a markedly better value. Due to the famous Lexus attention to the fine details, plus the anticipated better resale value.
At my lexus dealership their is no negotiation but the process is fair. Find the car you want take 10% off MSRP add the taxes, and that is the out the door price. I understand like any dealership they will try to lowball you on your trade-in, but that was not an issue for me.
tonychrys: in 2001 Nissan is for the first time offering the Infiniti All Mode 4-wheel drive system (derived from the Japanese market-only Nissan Skyline)on the LE Pathfinder (not available in prior years) -- while this narrows the gap between the Pathfinder and the QX4, the Infiniti amenities and overall package deal still made a difference to us, despite the substantial underlying similarities of the top-end Pathfinder and the QX4.
I am on the market for an SUV myself and pretty much know what I want in terms of cubic feet, inches, and seconds. So, I went out last night did some test driving. Here's what I think:
Acura MDX. This car is perfect if you look at the numbers. You can almost see engineers tallying those numbers up to stack nicely against competition. Well, I test drove it. It's sterile. The car has no soul. The engine is smooth as silk, everything is working just the way it is supposed to, but there is no tactile feeling of a live beast when you floor the pedal, flick the turn signal, roll down the window, you name it. It almost feels too refined. But... what's up with auto AC controls left off from the rest of electronics? Too lazy to integrate Accord's unit properly with your fancy-shmancy LCD screen? Also, the vehicle has a distinct 'Honda parts bin' mark on it, starting from turn signal stalks and ending with seats and door seals.
ML320: How can these Germans look straight into my eyes and offer me a $40K vehicle that doesn't have an automatic A/C on it? What, Alabamians aren't smart enough to assemble it? I don't get it.
But you know what? This car's got soul. Listen to the engine respond to your command, feel the switches, the support of the seat -- this thing is alive. It has an attitude, it is not perfect, but it definitely is worth falling in love with.
So far, the Benz has my heart. However, there are still two contenders left -- RX300 and X5. I will keep you guys *posted*. Ha-ha.
Good luck!
Drew
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The only luxe SUV's I've found with my own subjective view of "character" is the X5, and, purely on radical styling and not driving capability, the RX300. I think the X5, as impractical as it is, has loads more character than the ML320 / ML430 or the MDX.
FWIW, it goes to show you how subjective perception of character is. You probably liked the goggle-eyed look of the Integra whereas I absolutely hated it. I much prefer the Japanese market Integra's rectangular flush mounted headlamps. The fact that the Japanese ones are HID Xenons are also nice :-)
I do agree with you that the X5 is nice...however, I only find the front end appealing. I am not a fan of the steeply raked rear tailgate/lift glass styling, nor do I like the black colour plastic apron at the base of the rear bumper.
Drew
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Drew
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Re: lack of ergonomics on the M-class. I think you'd find them easier if you weren't so used to MB ;-) After all, they didn't get cupholders for a long time.
Easy examples include lack of steering-wheel mounted audio controls, an awkward left-handed cupholder for the driver, lack of a "neutral" position for the mirror adjustments, and a rather confusing, many-tiny-buttoned interface for MCS and the stereo. The location of the window switches is really old-fashioned and they belong on the doors like most other vehicles. I'm sure there's more. Hopefully some of these can be fixed for 2002.
These are of course quibbles, and I still think the ML is an excellent vehicle from an objective perspective.
FWIW, it goes to show you how subjective perception of character is.
As I said originally, it's highly subjective, and my statements are of course based on personal perception.
And like I said, the RX has character to me, purely based on its radical exterior styling. I don't really care for the way it drives but that's just me.
I actually like the X5's rear end. The apron is so-so, but I like the look otherwise. Unfortunately, the ML's rear-end, as practical and G-wagen-ish that it may be, is probably (to me, purely subjective) the most unappealing exterior styling component, and probably what leads some folks to call the vehicle ugly (e.g. my mother-in-law, who downright hates it, and my wife isn't thrilled with it).
Ironically, while the MDX is the SUV that's based on the minivan, I've always thought the M-class looked like some strange, lopsided, truncated minivan. Over time I've gotten used to it, sort of. I think it'd be even less attractive for more people if it didn't have the three-pointed star on it. It's the main reason why I think people get so excited when they hear about a "facelift" for the 2002 ML -- they're hoping it makes a big difference whereas it's (probably) relatively minor.
Hopefully the next-gen M-class will look better to more people, as MB does have talented designers who can execute a good look. They did a great job with the C-class, and maybe a clean start will produce a really great 2005 vehicle.
Touché, steering wheel mounted audio controls would be nice. You may find it interesting that many long time MB owners are still on the fence about these steering wheel buttons on the new MB cars. As for the cupholder, the left hand arrangement seems perfect to me. Since most people are right handed, you can use your strong arm to hold the steering wheel. I've also found that it's actually a good place to hold a cellphone. WRT the mirror control, you'll find the exact same thing across the entire MB lineup. This has been the way for many years. Note that in order for the passenger side rearview mirror to tilt down when reversing, the switch has to be in the left position anyway.
As for the MCS, aside from the volume control, I have to say that I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. All you have to do is press the large # buttons to switch radio stations. The list that calls up your preset stations can be called up via the left most button (closest to the driver) below the LCD screen. To manually enter of the station of your choice, all you have to do is hit * and then the frequency, ex. 9-5-3 for 95.3. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Perhaps you need more time to play around with it?
The ML's tailgate is not G-wagen-ish at all (the G-wagon has an external rear spare and the tailgate is almost perpendicular to the road). I think it's the combination of the short overhangs (partly for off-roading) and the car compatible/car height bumpers that gives it that minvanish rear look. I guess we have something in common then. The MDX looks very much so like a minivan from certain angles too. :-) Particularly the base models that don't have the roof rack The slab sided doors and lack of rub strips doesn't help either. BTW, are you planning to add those on at some point in time? I can't say that I've been particularly impressed with the ones that some other owners have installed so far. It almost seems like the MDX's styling defies one from adding the rubstrips (i.e. the front bumper line is a lot heigher than the rear, and the vehicle sort of slants downwards towards the front - like an arrow tip).
On another note, did the X5 you drove have the navigation system? I found that (like most LCD screens), the screen was absolutely unreadable when sunlight hit it. I'm perplexed as to why BMW chose such a strange angle for it.
I guess you all didn't get even close to this much snow :-p
Drew
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I am afraid I don't buy into the idea that it keeps your right arm free, because your right arm certainly isn't free when you have to adjust the stereo, window switches, mirror controls, etc. And of course your right arm is used to access the transmission (a TipTronic-style one, at that). Since most folks are right-handed, they may as well drink right-handed too, with less risk of spilling their drinks (and distracting themselves). Plus the left arm is in a somewhat less free position with the door on the side, especially if the driver is more, ahem, generously proportioned.
WRT the mirror control, you'll find the exact same thing across the entire MB lineup.
Doesn't mean it's an ideal arrangement. It wouldn't cost much to have a center "neutral" position.
As for the MCS, aside from the volume control, I have to say that I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Again, most of this is fixed with steering-wheel mounted audio controls, to adjust volume, change presets, and move around CD tracks. I didn't find the MCS CD changer controls to be very intuitive. I'm not the only one who doesn't like the MCS interface, I'll have to see if I can dig up autojournalist comments on it.
Heck, the volume control is enough, unless the stereo has auto-leveling in it. Dang radio stations play their commercials at much higher volumes than the regular programming.
The ML's tailgate is not G-wagen-ish at all.
Uh, I didn't say it was. If you check my previous message, I said it was the rear-end (in general). And actually, it was you who several months ago said the rear-end was G-wagen-ish ;-).
You won't find me cheering the MDX's plainish side view. Though I like the front nose more than you do, especially when the headlamps and foglights are on.
I still maintain that, even though the MDX is the one that's based on a minivan, and definitely has some minivanish exterior qualities about it, the ML looks even more like a minivan (especially if the ML isn't dressed up with the nice chrome bumper guard, which I've always admired, and foglights).
The power of knowledge is very strong. If a neutral observer had no idea which vehicle was derived from a minivan platform, and the brand badges were removed, I still think they'd be more likely to pick the ML as the minivan. I still remember how surprised I was when I first saw an ML.
Maybe you should bring a hose with you ;-)
Here are the rest of the pictures, if you're interested:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=137587&a=11472157
WRT the cup holder, must you drink while you touch the transmission lever, fiddle with the radio, etc.? One shouldn't be doing that while driving the vehicle anyway. Ah well...
As for the CD changer, you must be referring to that joystick control. FYI, the soft buttons below the screen can also be used. I think the reason why I don't have this problem is because I don't have the changer. Oh and BTW, yes, the radio is auto compensating/leveling. Great feature, though it is somewhat subtle.
I do like the MDX's front end with the headlamps/foglamps on (which is how my neighbour drives his MDX at night). Without the headlamps on...well, I think I prefer the 1.7EL's front end (which is, BTW, not too far away from the MDX's front fascia).
Well, that person would have to be pretty ignorant then. MB doesn't make minivans!....yet ;-)
FWIW, at a recent Chinese New Year party, one of my parents' friends (Not asian but caucasian, and a Durango owner) absolutely loved the M-class. He liked the styling of the front and even the back! Perhaps the rear deflector, trailer hitch, Parkpilot sensors, and the chrome accents around the taillamps helped :-) Speaking of the rear deflector, is yours there yet?
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Not all at the same time, obviously ;-) It's just easier to handle a cupholder on the console side (right arm for the driver). My point is that it doesn't really have much benefit to putting it on the left side (though southpaws here might disagree). If the idea was to keep the right arm on the steering wheel, then a lot of controls would have to be accessible on the left to maintain that idea.
Besides, your left arm is used to hold the folded-up newspaper while you drive. No, Drew, I'm kidding ;-)
Anyway, as I said before, these are more quibbles on an otherwise excellent vehicle.
Well, that person would have to be pretty ignorant then. MB doesn't make minivans!....yet
That's exactly my point ... when you have that knowledge, you adjust your perception to fit your experience. But the base perception still would say "more minivan-ish."
Nope, rear deflector isn't on yet, still a twee bit busy, working on the computer, taking short breaks on it too ;-) I also got the replacement front air deflector this week (to replace the one that was damaged during shipping). A&H MotorSports slapped fragile stickers all over the box this time (though it had been marked fragile before; I guess UPS needed a half-dozen more to get the idea!).
Say, you haven't added a CD Changer to your M-class yet? I knew you wanted to add your own audio equipment rather than the Bose "high fidelity" stuff, but I'd have thought you'd done it by now. Maybe with big enough speakers, you can roll down your windows and blast Wagner as X5's, MDX's, RX's, and other lesser SUV's go by.
According to him the plan is to have the seat facing the rear of the car and you will pull it up and push up, then back, leaving a space for legs.
I also have the navigation system which you will find invaluable when purchased. It is one of those things that once experienced,you wonder how you ever lived without it. I do not even travel outside of my city at this time and I use it almost every day. I am curious to hear about the Infinity navigation system though. I like this idea about being able to see the road in different ways.
Truthfully, I made my purchase based upon the navigation system. I really liked the way the Volvo drove, but they had no navigation systems anywhere in the country and to order it from Sweden would have taken three months. The dealership here said that people balked at the extra price, but that seems strange to me based upon the price of the car.
I liked the Mercedes, but people I met were having trouble with it, and the navigation was a cd based regional one. which would need to be changed if moving out of the area.
The MDX seemed fine. I did not like the front grill and there was something a little annoying about the screen to me. Everything on the screen looked a little large, as though it was made larger so the driver wouldn't have to put on glasses to read it.
Of course you all know that all of these things that seem so important when you are choosing a car become very insignificant after a few months. Not many things can stand up under the intense scrutiny we give our cars when purchasing. For example, I have often read criticisms of the gear shift in the RX300, and while it was a little odd at first, I don't even notice it now. As a matter of fact, I rather like it.
MDX wait time too long: You can get out-of-state delivery. I have a local friend(SF Bay area) who bought his MDX from Oregan and his wait time was less than 2 months. But if you don't want to put in the extra work for this, go with ML or XC.
ML: It's also a great vehicle as many posts have discussed. Three kids should be able to fit the 2nd row although it might be a little tight when compared with MDX which is wider. It also has the 3rd seat that expands the total seating to 7. Its safety features are excellent.
XC: The 2nd row should be very similar to ML's. But its 3rd seat is useless. And it's not an SUV -- no high seating, but drives/rides better. Safety features are also great. I personally think XC has the best safety among the three.
Hope this helps...
You may also like to consider a full-sized SUV like the Toyota Sequoia. It'd be comparably priced to the Mercedes, adding greater room if you ever decide you do need it. It also has excellent safety features, but is quite a heavy vehicle. It supposedly "drives lighter" than it is but you'll notice a huge difference with the Mercedes.
Good luck, and congratulations on the upcoming twin birth.
Thanks.
Robin
The Mercedes SUV lacks most of the good toys and several expected amenities but drives/rides like their sedans; solid, in control of the road, great seats, a driving machine. You do fall in love with its soul.
The RX has all the neat stuff, autotemp, reclining rear seats, storage everywhere, accesible CD. The biggest drawback was the driver's seat. Every 2 minutes during a 25 minutes (my option on whether to bring the saleman) I was trying to adjust the seat bottom. No position evenly spread my weight; there was always one spot that felt pressure. I think the seatcushion is too flat, and doesn't cup to support you. A nice passenger vehicle.
On the MB I set the seat once and never changed it; didn't even think about it.
RX300 problem 2 ... boring to drive, no character, no road feel. Also not as quiet nor as smooth riding as I expected. For the most car-like SUV from the quietest car company I expected far less windnoise.
After I drove the MB, I made an appointment to drive it again when I had more time. Only downside to this 2000 is that it has a skyroof which doesn't really interest me. I loved it though and may even consider a new one.
The Lexus may be more reliable but it won't be enjoyable.
(Don't really like the looks of the MDX or BMW.)
Yesterday I bought a 2000 ML320 with 19K miles, black, ash leather and the skyview roof (which proved to be much better than I expected.) I testdrove it in the pouring rain and it was a still great drive; solid, surefooted, smooth.
The day before I drove a new RX300 and the used M-B was no noiser (Lexus has wind noise around the outside mirrors, the M-B around the skyview roof) and just as smooth riding. But you drive the M-B, the Lexus you just steer. When you get behind the wheel in the ML, the gearshift falls into hand. In the Lexus, its that odd lever in the middle of the dashboard that you have to reach for, almost an inconvenience.
Even the buy experience was good. My wife hates that part of carbuying and she said "this wasn't painful at all". The saleswoman was never pushy, even thought my kids were cute when they set off the alarm on the SLK in the showroom (nice car), and got my coffee order right. They were much fairer on the trade-in than the Lexus offer was and didn't try to switch me to new like the Lexus salesman. It came from Motorcars East in Bedford, Ohio, saleswoman Kathy Stape.
I actually like the cruise control lever, I would like steering wheel controls for the radio but don't think its that far to reach (Lexus lacks them too), would prefer autotemp but am willing to swap that for drive orientation of the car. Lexus has the little things, Mercedes has the soul.
Just hope my wife doesn't appropriate it too soon.
I can get MDX for around 38.8K onroad with all the options. (base MDX+running boards+ carrier+wheel locks)
ML320 is for 41.6K on road with all my options (base ML320+leather+sunroof+CD+3rd row seatings)
I found ML320 much heavier to drive.
I am looking for SUV which can be used for 7 people once in while. MDX is best for that. ML320, i couldnt see the 3rd row seats as dealer didnt have one.
Does anyone have 3rd row seats in ML320? How comfortable are they?
I am not sure if i should go for MDX, value for the money or ML320 the old mercedes name???
Any thoughts???
ML - you can get at or below invoice with the rebates
MDX - MSRP - no discounts yet
Has anyone used 3rd row seats in ML320???
The '01 MLs can be had at below MSRP right now, so it would be around the same price as the RX.
Drew
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The strong point of the ML is it's engine transmission combo and good supension, if it was not the case it would never have won the Dakar rally in the Unmodified class, as is from the show room, 7000 km across the Sahara.
any experiences with buying a RX300AWD these days? I am looking at lease or buy. Any prices found lately would be handy. I live in the Boston area
Of course, all this should be balanced against your other priorities in a vehicle, whatever those may be.
The ML's third row seat is roomier for adults than the MDX's, and you can push forward the second row for more third row legroom, though of course that compromises second row legroom. Access is much better in the ML because you can tumble forward the second row seat in sections. You also get rear quarter windows that can open. With a leather interior, the third row seat is leather not vinyl as in the MDX. You can also install just one of the third row seats, leaving some room for cargo. The headrests for the third row are better than the little ones in the MDX.
On the other hand, the MDX's third row is permanently installed, and unlike the ML, can be conveniently folded away until needed, one seat a time. You don't have to decide to "reconfigure" your vehicle in advance. The ML's third row seats can be physically removed to maximize cargo room (the seats are not extremely heavy but certainly not lightweight) and you can store them somewhere in your garage -- assuming you have the room.
When the third row is folded down in the MDX, the third row removed in the ML, and both second rows in use, the MDX has more useful cargo capacity. (When the second row is also folded down, the ML has slightly more cargo room, according to Car & Driver.) With the full third rows in use in both vehicles, the MDX has somewhat more useful cargo capacity behind the third row, though it's still no great shakes.
As you can see, the third rows in both vehicles have their pluses and minuses, it comes down to how you're going to be using them.
If you need more frequent seven-passenger capability and cargo room, you're probably better served with a roomier full-sized SUV or a minivan.
Assuming you want to take advantage of the incentives to clear out the 2001 ML's (you definitely should be able to buy a 2001 for below invoice), and you want the third row, I would call around or at least make sure your dealership has called around. You mentioned it will take "70 days" to get a third-row ML320, which means they've got you in for a 2002? They're in relatively low supply but you might be able to locate a 2001 with a third row if you hurry. Your dealership may be able to get it transferred from the other dealership.
So if you have a lot of grocery bags, the cargo area of the MDX is more useful than that of the ML. But if you need to transport a barbeque grill, then the ML can hold it upright better.
3rd seats are a nice feature in an SUV, but if you need to carry adults instead of kids, why not go for a minivan?
My comments on more "useful cargo room" is based on the beer case test as done by Car & Driver. There, boxes are loaded up no more than six inches above the beltline. The MDX fit 34/20/5 behind the first/second/third rows, the 2000 ML320 they tested without a third row seat, 36/15.
Thus, the ML320 beat the MDX slightly for cargo room behind the front row, while the MDX beat the ML320 behind the second row.
Thus, while the MDX is wider and very nearly 8" longer, the ML320 is certainly no slouch in the useable cargo volume wars, as the numbers above show. The MDX's second row seats do not fold down perfectly flat, leaving somewhat of a slope going to the first row, thus losing some useful cargo room.