Isuzu Trooper

breakor · November 2002

I got the same baloney "design feature" story. Granted most roads crown to the right so there will be some minor bias in that direction. A good alignment corrected my very real pulling problem and now it tracks just like every other properly aligned vehicle.

Good luck with the dealer. Ours was a pain and located far from the house so I just went to a tire shop that I trusted. I took the factory specs with me and made sure they met them.

Many people have reported the pulling to the right problem and that it took some effort to find a shop that would solve it. As I see it any shop can fix the alignment, some are just too lazy to do all the standard steps properly (i.e. add/subtract the shims as needed).

savvas_e · November 2002

Mine drifts, but to the left. Then again we drive on the other side of the road.

The Trooper does tend to follow the crown of the road. You can test this by finding a nice safe place to drive on the left side of the road and see where it heads. It should drift left.

An alignment shop that is capable of doing trucks can minimise this easily. You will find that you might not get rid of it completely, but enough to make it a non-issue. Just get it done quickly otherwise you will start scrubbing out the shoulders of the tires.

savvas_e · November 2002

Agree with your view, but only that any shop SHOULD be able to fix the problem.

My dealer didn't give me the "design feature" story. This is the first time I heard that one. What they did say to me is that Jackaroo's do require a specialist shop to do the alignment and that their workshop was not equipped to do it. The dealer paid for a specialist shop to fix it under warranty.

That sounds more credible to me than wandering steering being a design safety feature.

paisan · November 2002

Don't forget the steering on the Trooper is not rack and pinion. It's TRUCK steering so you will have a looser feel than you will in a rack and pinion equipped vehicle (rodeo and most other SUVs are R&P) R&P don't follow the crown of the road as easily as the type found in trucks like the Trooper.

-mike

keepontroopin · November 2002

Did you happen to see the Shamokin Head when you were there Pinoy???

tkevinblanc · November 2002

All this oil consumption talk is getting unnerving. Mine uses a little, maybe a quart every 3K, but I'm going to get worried if it starts increasing to a quart every 2K...

Any good explanations?

02trooper · November 2002

Thanks for all responses. The dealer ship that I went to touted about their $100,000 alignment machine and that it would not lie to them. They gave me the print out that shows my trooper is not out of specs. Also they ADDED a shim(???). The tech also warned the tires will be destroyed if he get the truck to go straight. I am planing to take this issue directly to the Isuzu representative on his next visit at the dealer.

breakor · November 2002

Sawas_e you are right I should have not said shops CAN do the work. That assumes people are competent, motivated and have a standard alignment machine.

FWIW, the guy that did our Trooper said it is a very typical design that can be aligned with any standard alignment machine. He said the problem comes in when mechanics try to take short cuts. Instead of dealing with annoying camber and caster shims they try to skip those steps and only set the easy to adjust toe-in.

breakor · November 2002

They added a shim so something was out of alignment before they started the work. Which begs the question, does it track better now?

If you still have the pulling it is probably worth calling the dealer and asking them if there are 2wd/4wd setting difference and verify they used the correct ones on your vehicle. Alternatively, you could go to an independent shop with your printout and ask them if they see any suspect settings that they suggest adjusting.

Also, on some level the technician was probably right about setting it "straight" causing problems. For example if he set a 0 caster angle and calls that "straight" then that would cause problems.

Bottom line, my Trooper pulled noticeably to the right when new and I got the "that is per the design" story. I took it to an alignment shop that put it in spec. The pull disappeared and my tires are wearing just fine 3 years later. Granted I can still ever so slightly follow a left or right road crown or be pushed sideways by wind.

sbcooke · November 2002

I had to get a shim when my truck was new. Even though it was aligned, the truck still pulled. The problem was that the caster was off.

They cited several possible reasons: Big pothole, when it was unloaded at the docks it was dropped a few feet onto the concrete, when it was tighted down to the truck too much during cross country shipping, when they backed it off the truck it dropped a few feet, etc. Basically some "jarring" event that caused the caster to be off.

It was covered under warranty...however it took several "I can't find anything wrong" trips to the dealer and 3 trips to an independent shop to get it resolved. Was it a major problem? No, but the amount of effort to solve the problem was too much. I still had to get the alignment after all was said and done at an independent shop to get it right...so it cost me probably $150 out of pocket and a lot of time.

sdc2 · November 2002

For some reason alignments can be difficult on Troopers. I had mine done three times before they got it right.

Sometimes the tires will cause a little drift. My Trooper was tracking straight, then a few weeks ago I rotated the tires, and now it will drift left if I let go of the wheel. Pressure is equal L/R, so it has to be the tires. It is not a strong pull, though.

pinoy99 · November 2002

After an oil/filter change using 5.5 quarts; I usually add the half quart left over about 500 -750 miles later. I usually go thru another one or to two quarts again before the next service, about 5k later.

pinoy99 · November 2002

....the urban legend?

pinoy99 · November 2002

Fortunately, the shop that I take my truck to (ok4wd) for alignment(done twice after cranking the t-bar in conjuction with the OME springs and again after adding coil spacers) is very good that I never had any alignment issues.

jglasmann · November 2002

Judging by the current posts and past it appears that many troopers besides mine have a thirst for oil. When a vehicle has been maintained according to manufacturer specifications and burns a qt every 1k miles (@ 38K miles), then perhaps it points to lack of quality control when the engine was built. This could be another reason why Isuzu is floundering in a good SUV market.

paisan · November 2002

God forbid us stuck-up americans would have to check the engine oil 1x a week! I'd rather add oil 1x a week for 250K miles than have my tranny blow up like on the exploders after 40K miles!

-mike

boxtrooper · November 2002

I would like to know what percentage of Troopers need oil added before the regular 3K oil change.
..
I would like a table of this percentage vs SUVs across the market. Anyone know where to get such information?

savvas_e · November 2002

The Isuzu V6 has a thirst for oil, but so do a lot of other unleaded engines. Especially those that are made to perform.

1 qt every 1000 miles is extreme though. I would think 1qt every 3000 miles to be acceptable.

So far mine is doing well. No oil consumption at all and it has 53000 kms on the clock (or 32k miles). Generally running 10W-40 synthetic oil in it.

sdc2 · November 2002

My oil consumption appears to have improved since it was new. I'm at about 48K miles now, and these days I go 5K miles between changes. I usually have to throw in half a quart toward the end of the interval to keep above the fill line. I guess it's finally getting broken in!

I have used Mobil One 5W-30 since day one.

tkevinblanc · November 2002

I don't mind having to check/add oil, but the variation folks are reporting is unsettling. There are plenty of well engineered engines that burn practically none. It's reasonable for those whose engines are using oil to be upset about it. I would be, and I bet everyone else here would, too.

If my engine burned a quart every 1K consistently, I wouldn't worry about it. It's that change that folks are talking about that's worrying.

It's interesting that sawas_e runs 10w40 - could the viscosity of the oil make a difference? Are those of you whose engines burn significant amounts of oil mostly using lighter weight oil?

pinoy99 · November 2002

I am using 10w-30 weight dino oil since in my case I believe they burn less(compare to 5w-30). I've used synthetic in the past but the consumption is still there, so it's much cheaper to dump in a $1 worth of dino oil. My only complaint is that there is no 'idiot' light(which in this case would be beneficial) to alert you when you're at least a quart low. I had an 88 Mustang GT for 220k+ miles(before being given away to my nephew) that burned a quart about every 1k towards the higher end of its mileage life but that car had a 'check engine' light that actually lights up when the engine needed a quart.

Someone suggested before that the oil consumption might be due to oil evaporation(heat), so the driving sytle/pattern/habbit might have something to to with it as well. My truck spends most of its time at 3k rpm (highway) because of higher gearing.

sbcooke · November 2002

Fortunately my truck doesn't burn much oil, really the only time is on long road trips and it is minor.

While I agree it is not a problem to check (for me) and it doesn't mean that it is a "bad" engine, it makes it a tough vehicle for people not into checking or really able to. I.e. it isn't pratical for elderly, single mothers with kids, etc. I think a 1/2 a quart is reasonable per 3000 miles, but 1 quart per 1000 miles seems like a lot. A non-savy car person would then go into typical oil changes 3 quarts down.

pinoy99 · November 2002

Steve, did you get it yet?

sdc2 · November 2002

Didn't get it yesterday, hopeful for today...won't be the end of the world if it doesn't show up today, but it would be nice to have a long weekend to mess around with installing it.

Last night I watched a commercial tape from Moab Easter Jeep Safari - it was fun to watch some Jeeps have trouble with obstacles I walked up in my Trooper...and it really go me itching to go out there again, but ZuZoo VI is still 6 months away! Aargh!

Watching some of the trucks drag off of ledges had me looking forward to an improved departure angle with this new rear bumper...

tkevinblanc · November 2002

More than that, because the rate of burn is usually at an inverse to the amount of oil in the system. If you burn your first quart at 1K, you'll burn your second at 1.8K and your third at 2.5K, or something like that anyway. Less oil gets hotter and dirtier than more oil.

So if you really want to detect your rate of burn, you need to check regularly and refill regularly.

And I use synth so I can go 5K between changes... but only if I check if frequently.

Again, it's the change that some folks are reporting that alarms me.

Oh, well. I do love my Trooper...

sdc2 · November 2002

The Calmini rear bumper just arrived here at work! Woo Hoo! Gotta go look at it...

pugger1 · November 2002

My Trooper seems to be using 1 quart of oil at every change. I check often during the 3500 mile change cycle. When I am down 1/4 of a quart I add. I have used 5w-30 Castrol from the start. I have used the Castrol in all of my cars/trucks for the past 15 or so years and never had any problems related to oil failure. Clean oil is a very cheap way to keep your vehicle out of the shop.
Philip

wildbuc · November 2002

My Trooper uses about 1 qt. every 5K miles. I switched to Mobil One at 7K miles and it seems to have made a slight improvement. It is rather tricky to measure the oil correctly on the Trooper (seems to me) because it varies greatly according to when the oil is measured, or how level the ground is. I measure my oil level first thing in the morning before it is driven, and when parked in exactly the same spot. Oil consumption concerned me when I first got the Trooper (gotta worry about something) but as time goes on it has become inconsequential.

pugger1 · November 2002

My Trooper seems to be using 1 quart of oil at every change. I check often during the 3500 mile change cycle. When I am down 1/4 of a quart I add. I have used 5w-30 Castrol from the start. I have used the Castrol in all of my cars/trucks for the past 15 or so years and never had any problems related to oil failure. Clean oil is a very cheap way to keep your vehicle out of the shop.
Philip

pinoy99 · November 2002

Just called my friend's garage;my bumper arrived Monday pm(of course after I've already called him that day). I'll probably have it installed on Friday...good luck on your install.

sdc2 · November 2002

I haven't found any instructions yet...maybe it is self explanatory. I haven't unwrapped most of it. They aren't in the receiver or with the mounting hardware. Of course they could be anywhere in the wrapping.

bluedevils · November 2002

I've always used 5W30 in our Trooper. I'm of the opinion that the engine runs best on 5W30. Switching to Mobil 1 synthetic for 10-20k miles did not seem to significantly affect oil consumption. I switched back to dino about 25k miles ago.

My concern is not the cost of adding oil or the burden of remembering to check frequently, but rather the nagging feeling that the increased consumption rate means there is something not quite right with the engine.

Any ideas?

jrr2k · November 2002

It sounds odd that the trooper uses 1 quart in 3000 miles. I only have this problem on my higher milage engines.
My 02 gets its 1st oil change real soon!!! I bought mobil 1 10w30 dino oil and plan on adding a quart of synthetic. I plan on using a mobil 1 filter. Expensive, but everyone on the oil forum thinks Fram sucks. Personally never had problems with orange Fram filters but what's 5 more dollars twards the truck I love.
Anyone know what the factory fill oil is on the Troop?
I think my owners manual said 7500 miles between oil changes? Anyone know for sure?
What do you think a good break in milage is for the 1st oil change? I'm at 4200 and will probably go to 5000.

An earlier post seemed to suggest that an external oil cooler made some difference in oil consumption. I wonder if anyone else has had this experience.

wlbrown9 · November 2002

My '00 Trooper LS does not seem to use any significant amount of oil between changes 3-4K miles. I use dino 10-30 FWIW. 42,000 miles on odometer now.

boxtrooper · November 2002

IMHO the best filter for the Trooper is the Purolator Pure One PL24458. The stock size is the PL14459, the PL24458 is an inch taller for greater capacity and less pressure loss. I think the filter media in the PL14459 is about 2 inched tall, the other inch of height is taken by the bypass valve and threaded section etc.. The extra inch of height on the PL24458 should therefore increase the filter media area capacity by 50% and that should lower the pressure drop also, so the lower bypass setting seems OK to me. The PL24458 slightly lower bypass pressure but that has not been a problem for me and I have used PL24458 for 35000 miles so far. I have experimented with many filters to find the one that is able to keep away the 1995 SOHC lifter tick noise, that your 2002 is immune to because of different design. The Purolator has good reviews on line in the same places where the Fram (which my family always used to use) got poor reviews. The Purolator is half the cost of the Mobil1 filter and it at least as good a filter IMHO.

..

BTW I also have been using the 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife because it makes the lifter noise go away and stay away as long as the full synthetic I was using.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?Product=7

I think the http://www.redlineoil.com products are awsome, but the price is too high for engine oil use, even though RedLine will allow going a little longer between changes without too much risk of the lifter noise returning.

savvas_e · November 2002

Just as a point of interest, Holden specifies 20W50 for the V6 Jackaroo in Australia.

That's fine in the warmer months, but I find it quite noisy at startup in the colder months. That's why I switched to the 10W40 normally, and I may use 10W50 during the peak of our summer.

I personally know 5 owners of the 3.5V6 Jackaroo and none of them have oil consumption issues. One of these Jackaroos has 220,000km or 132,000m without any consumption. None of these run 20W50, but there is a mix of mineral, synthetic and semi-synthetic oils in this sample.

I'm starting to think this is a US thing.

mkaye · November 2002

Had a 96 leased and returned at 36K miles, no oil usage. My 2001 w/ 10K uses no oil between changes. Always have used Castrol GTX and change every 3K miles. My friend's 96 has over 60K and no oil usage.

troop2shos · November 2002

Personally, I would avoid using any dino juice 10w-40 or 10w-50 due to the potential of the viscosity improvers breaking down. 20w-50 starts life as a higher base stock oil which won't breakdown as easily - even with the 30 point index spread. The other drawbacks in using higher weight oil are fuel efficiency, horsepower loss, cold start issues & flow rates, etc. However, my former '88 Ford Aerostar had a healthy appetite for consuming a quart of oil every 600 miles since day 1 through 100k+. 20w-50 during the hot months did curb its consumption down to a quart every 1200-1500 miles & the engine ran strong - even pulling a trailer. I always suspected the valve guides were the culprit but an extra quart every so often was just a minor inconvenience & less of a hassle than being put on the factory consumption watch list. In my '00 Trooper, oil consumption is about a 1/2 quart every 3k with 34k on the clock running 10w-30.
FWIW, I've heard very good reports on using the Valvoline MaxLife & the Castrol equivalent for high mileage engines from my V-6 & V-8 SHO lists - especially with respect to oil seals.
There are some informative oil filter studies on the 'net that makes for some interesting reading.

flyinlow · November 2002

If I understood your post, your new Trooper has 4200 miles and hasn't had its first oil change yet. Do it right away! I think the first oil change is the most important one you'll ever do, since the engine is wearing off its rough edges the fastest when new. You know where those rough edges end up: in the oil and filter. Many car companies do the first change "on the house" to encourage people to get it done promptly and thereby ensure the engine will at least make it through the warranty period.

I admit being more fanatical than most people, but I always do the first change on a new engine within 1000 miles. On a motorcycle I like to do it at 500.

ostaz · November 2002

Just an FYI:

I saw a few 02s in the Twin cities area advertized by dealers for the asking price of $20k. They seem to be dealer demo cars, since they have between 4000-6000 miles.

I went to one to see if they have an 02 LS, but they didn't. The salesman tried to "make a deal" on the Black S for $19.2k.

cmuniz · November 2002

I do my first oil change at 3,000 and subsequent ones between 3-5,000 miles. Although most manufacturers recommend doing it at longer intervals.

wildbuc · November 2002

Here are some facts for you guys to ponder:

1. Recent trip from Henderson, N.C. to Charleston, S.C. and back,totaling 646 miles--mostly across flat country.
2. Air pressure (cold) was: 33 lbs front, 37 lbs. rear
3. Speed ranged from 65 mph to 75 mph with about 70 much of the time.
4. Mobil One oil used: 10-30
5. Vehicle carried 2 persons and normal luggage
6. Burned regular unleaded gas.
7. Vehicle was 99 Trooper with 29K miles.
8. Gas mileage was calculated to be:18.3 mpg.

Okay, how was the mileage, good? bad? or ugly?

jrr2k · November 2002

The 02 Trooper got its 1st oil change yesterday. I think nothing brings out the fanatics like engine oil/oil filter topics. I admit being a huge nut!:) The 02 owners manual says "Your engine was filled with a high quality engine oil when it was built. You do not have to change this oil before the suggested change period" I wonder what the high quality oil is?
Flyinlow - I think if you change your orig. factory fill oil at 1000 mi. you definately want to use a high quality syn. oil for the refill. New engines need TLC for their break in.
Boxtroop - I like the idea of the larger filter. What is the diff. on the bypass pressure setting versus the stock filter? I think that Purolator rated well on the data sheets I saw. I used a Mobil 1 filter ($10 but HEAVY DUTY) and a 20% synthetic Mobil 1 blend 10w30 for the fill.
Anyone know the maker of the original Isuzu oil filter? That thing was tough! Stubborn as a mule to get loose though. Or maybe I was weak from Turkey overdose.

troop2shos · December 2002

I wouldn't make a switch to a synthetic or synthetic blend at 1k - you want the rings to seat properly w/ dino juice. As for TLC, it is better to vary engine speeds even with an occasional but progressive 3/4 romp up on the rev range to help expand the piston rings against the cylinder walls to obtain maximum engine compression (i.e. increase max rpm's by 500 during the break-in period), YMMV. I would also avoid lugging it around in Winter Drive mode...

I prefer to use the Mobil 1 or the K&N filter equivalent in my Gen II SHO but only because of concerns w/ the very high flow demands of the oiling system & pressure drop - flows 5 quarts through the sump about every 6 seconds @ 43 psi at 6400 rpms (12.1 GPM). Some filters haven't been tested past 3 GPM, IIRC. I'm not sure what our oil pump is rated for in the Troop. (anyone know?) but I doubt that it's as high as my full Yamaha engine...satisfied w/ the OEM Trooper filter at this time.

savvas_e · December 2002

Your mileage was about average.

A couple of tips -

Try running your tyres at 36psi all round next time (front & back) on a trip like this. I find this has a significant effect on consumption. However not much is gained by going over 36psi. You will also find it steers and tracks better with the front at 36psi. (As an FYI...I have BFG A/T's running at 36psi all the time and there is no accelerated wear in the centre of the tread).

You will get much better mileage at 60mph. Mind you, I always set the cruise control to about 115kmh (70mph) anyway. OK, so I don't follow my own advice.

Use the cruise control as much as practical when on a long drive. Of course commonsense has to prevail as to when you use it.

Try all that and you might crack the 20mpg mark.

I'm assuming you're running 245/70R16 size tyres?

savvas_e · December 2002

I did find one guy down here whose '99 Jackaroo consumes oil. It goes through 0.25 litres every 5000 km. He uses Castrol GTX3 and the vehicle has 80000km on it.

In US measures... 0.26qts every 3000 miles. 48000 miles on the clock.

To me, that's acceptable.

bluedevils · December 2002

Sounds about average for that year Trooper. Depends how much of the trip was highway driving (constant speed) vs. city/non-highway. I'm assuming most of it was highway driving.

wildbuc · December 2002

Yea I was running 245/70R/16 tires and had it on cruise control much of the time. The traffic was so heavy that I was continually going on/off cruise control, however. I'll experiment with running 36 lbs. all around. I also will install a new air filter. The best mileage I have ever obtained was 19.4 mpg, which occurred using the A/C and fully loaded with luggage.

stever · December 2002

Another question down your alley:

heng "Winter/Adverse Weather Driving Discussion" Dec 1, 2002 8:54pm

Thanks!

Steve, Host

paisan · December 2002

18.1 isn't bad @ 70mph. Anything over 60mph and the milage goes down significantly. I found at 60mph I could break 20mpg but over 60-65 and it drops through the floor.

-mike

Isuzu Trooper

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