Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

fintail · June 2015

I think it was an on purpose more than an accident.

If the BMW driver was mature and not a typical BMW driver, it wouldn't have happened either. As one of our wise senior members likes to say, the one who becomes enraged is ultimately at fault.

If some dork on a little Honda pulled up and yelled at me, I'd laugh and smile at him.

isellhondas said:
No, I don't think that was irrelevant to that situation.

Had the guy on the bike not squeezed between those two cars and sworn at the guy in the BMW, that accident wouldn't have happened.

In this day and age, you just don't do those things especially in L.A.!

ruking1 · June 2015

Yup, the trail is growing cold. It is time to move on! If anybody sees another posting before I do, on this subject, Please post it up, if it remains of interest.

ruking1 · June 2015

Speaking of interesting video postings and its' "u tube power....",... (totally off topic)

Is it OK to Bring a Loaded Rifle into an Airport? This Guy Did It

Laura Begley Bloom
Executive Editor
June 4, 2015

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/is-it-ok-to-bring-a-loaded-gun-into-an-airport-120692240587.html

This is probably more boring, but on topic.

Top 12 Driving Behaviors that Cause Road Rage

CarInsurance.com
May 21, 2015

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/top-12-driving-behaviors-that-cause-road-rage-119563540949.html

ruking1 · June 2015

Fortunately or unfortunately, in light of ever improving PVF safety records (among the SAFEST of NHTSA records since they started tracking), the motorcycle segment is seemingly snatching DEFEAT from the jaws of VICTORY !!!

The motorcycle segment continues posting epidemically POOR records year after year.

It remains to be seen if motorcycle recording devices (go pros) will reverse those epidemic trends in any significant ways or correlations.

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

This is only my .02 cents, but with the greater dangers involved with lane splitting, it remains unclear why the powers that be want to "LEGALIZE" it. (Currently it is NOT illegal in CA) It also makes much more murky, who can be held more or less at legal and/or monetary fault. The driving forces seems to be who has the deeper pockets.

Logically @ best, it would increase the POTENTIAL for accidents. Given the abysmal records, why would one want to include another legal variable that adds to the carnage? Also, fairness would dictate that cars should also be able to lane split with motorcycles.

andres3 · June 2015

It has been ruled that lane splitting, while increasing some risks, is greatly outweighed by the much higher and more dangerous risk of bad drivers rear-ending you, which happens exponentially more often and frequently, and is a very dangerous thing when your on 2 wheels.

This is the exact same reason red light cameras have been shown to INCREASE the frequency of accidents at intersections where they have been installed. An abominably bad idea if there ever was one.

euphonium · June 2015

How can a lane splitter not be at fault in a crash for he decided to take a chance and risk the procedure.

ruking1 · June 2015

andres3 said:
It has been ruled that lane splitting, while increasing some risks, is greatly outweighed by the much higher and more dangerous risk of bad drivers rear-ending you, which happens exponentially more often and frequently, and is a very dangerous thing when your on 2 wheels.

This is the exact same reason red light cameras have been shown to INCREASE the frequency of accidents at intersections where they have been installed. An abominably bad idea if there ever was one.

While I would agree red light cameras are a bad idea, the correlation with lane splitting is dubious @ best! Also keep in mind that CA is one of the FEW states where lane splitting is NOT illegal ! Aka CA is not closer to ZERO (statistically significant) as a result of not being illegal.

Well I would then have wished you link the studies that indicate that. The NHTSA article said pretty clearly that 70% of motorcycle accidents were caused with motorcycles hitting targets in front of the motorcycles!!!! If I remember correctly, only 7% is caused by some vehicle rear ending the motorcycles. So for example, IF the reverse were true, that would be a good reason TO do correlation studies !

ruking1 · June 2015

While 2013 is in arrears and not as yet published in the FARS portion , accidents injuries and fatality rates seem to be getting much better!

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812101.pdf

Some tidbits:

..." There was a large decrease in motorcyclist fatalities for the 50- to 69-year-old population: 190 fewer fatalities in 2013 than in 2012 (60% of the total decrease for motorcyclist fatalities)."...

..." There were 11 times as many unhelmeted motorcyclist fatal- ities in States without universal helmet laws (1,704 unhel- meted fatalities) as in States with universal helmet laws (150 unhelmeted fatalities) in 2013."...

..."Ride Sober or Get Pulled Over
Statistics show that the percentage of intoxicated motorcycle riders in fatal crashes is greater than the percentage of intoxicated drivers on our roads. This is why NHTSA urges all motorcycle riders to always ride smart and sober."... (corollary: if you can catch em.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/pdf/812060-EffectiveStrategiesMotorcycleStops.pdf)

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Safety/Motorcycles

Traffic Safety Facts
2013 Data
May 2015

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812148.pdf

Mr_Shiftright · June 2015

Hard to have a designated driver on a motorcycle. I have a *lot* of road time on serious motorcycles, and my conclusion after 20 + years of riding is that many motorcyclists are too aggressive. It is by no means an unusual phenomenon that the type of vehicle you are driving can dictate how you drive.

ruking1 · June 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Hard to have a designated driver on a motorcycle. I have a *lot* of road time on serious motorcycles, and my conclusion after 20 + years of riding is that many motorcyclists are too aggressive. It is by no means an unusual phenomenon that the type of vehicle you are driving can dictate how you drive.

I guess options such as: taking a cab, Uber, Lyft are specifically forbidden, as part of the leather slapping fraternity/sorority membership??

Well, 26 TIMES more likely to have a motorcycle accident/FATALITY over cars might be a (hidden)... clue.

Key Findings
• In 2013, 4,668 motorcyclists were killed—a 6-percent decrease from the 4,986 motorcyclists killed in 2012.
• There were an estimated 88,000 motorcyclists injured during 2013, a 5-percent decrease from 93,000 motorcyclist injured in 2012.
• Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclist fatalities occurred 26 times more frequently than passenger car occupant fatalities in traffic crashes.
• Twenty-five percent of motorcycle riders involved in fatal crashes in 2013 were riding their vehicles without valid motorcycle licenses.
• In 2013, motorcycle riders involved in fatal crashes were found to have the highest percentage of alcohol-impaired drivers than any other vehicle type (27% for motorcycles, 23% for pas- senger cars, 21% for light trucks, and 2% for large trucks).
• Forty percent of motorcycle riders who died in single-vehicle crashes in 2013 were alcohol-impaired.
• Motorcycle riders killed in traffic crashes at night were almost four times more frequently alcohol-impaired than those killed during the day.
• NHTSA estimates that helmets saved 1,630 motorcyclists’ lives in 2013, and that 715 more could have been saved if all motorcyclists had worn helmets.
• In States without universal helmet laws, 59 percent of motorcyclists killed in 2013 were not wearing helmets, as compared to 8 percent in States with universal helmet laws.

Just my two cents, but it would seem a good portion of the motorcycling population want to vilify other populations, i.e., passenger cars) when (CLEARLY) most of it is in THEIR hands????

roadburner · June 2015

In his book Proficient Motorcycling David Hough uses similar statistics in to debunk the "Motorcycles are unreasonably dangerous." crowd. Wear a helmet, get licensed, get proper training(MSF Basic RiderCourse or similar), and ride sober- you still may be involved in an accident, but you will have improved your chances to a significant degree.

ruking1 · June 2015

i'm with you there! Here's hoping to turn wishful thinking, in that segment into future realities, ...someday !

I am sure a lot of the older motorcycle drivers (that Fintail likes to vilify) are motorcycle club gang members ! LEO's also have motorcycle clubs!

So 9 recent Motorcycle club gang injuries and fatalities in Texas won't hit the books because a slew of them were wounded with 9 killed in a diners' parking lot shoot out.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2015

We could get into how certain types of motorcycles influence certain types of behavior, but let's not go there.

Suffice it to say, about motorcycle safety, that a) no motorcycle ever won an argument with a car and b) if you have a replaceable head, you don't need a helmet.

I always rode British bikes (for handling and light weight) and BMWs (the gentleman's motorcycle) and went 22 years without a spill. How you act on the road determines how others act towards you. Not that I drove slowly, mind you....

So, last week...here's a kid on a dirt bike (high fenders, knobby tires) going at least 75 MPH on a California freeway...no helmet, levis and sneakers, wearing sunglasses, sporting a bulging backpack. His chances for survival are pretty iffy. He's under-protected, under-dressed, top heavy with a back pack, and riding a bike not meant for freeways. He's doing *everything* wrong. But ah, he's young so he's immortal.

ruking1 · June 2015

That about sums it up ! I think also you made a great comment on how one acts on the roads determines a lot of how one is treated ! Anecdotally, I also find it to be true. I get pretty close to ZERO drama! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I also find that most "clue less" drivers are really giving off numerous clues and are really ADVERTISING! Like is said, forewarned is forearmed! Sometimes their "encores" can be entertaining, a tad further down the road

, one of the reasons I enjoy LA LA land news.

euphonium · June 2015

Does Utah require helmets? It didn't a few years ago. A head bandana will absorb only so much blood. Yield a lot of space to bikers, thus preventing minor damage to your vehicle & the filling out of crash papers.

When offered some ice water at a rest stop where it was dry, the biker said, "Is that all you've got?" I poured the ice water on the ground in front of his parched lips & drove off.

xwesx · June 2015

euphonium said:
When offered some ice water at a rest stop where it was dry, the biker said, "Is that all you've got?" I poured the ice water on the ground in front of his parched lips & drove off.

LOL I think that is filed under, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

ruking1 · June 2015

He was a little short in the manners dept eh?

Why are we not shocked?

ruking1 · June 2015

Tailing a Royal Enfield Motorcycle. It seemed to be fully restored. It passed us as we were going 80 mpg. This thing was super LOUD! To me that would be WAY old after 10 miles.

andres3 · June 2015

euphonium said:
How can a lane splitter not be at fault in a crash for he decided to take a chance and risk the procedure.

A lane splitter might be splitting lanes in a constant monotonous direction and velocity, with no change in direction or speed (did I just say the same thing twice?). The "other" vehicle that decides to change directions and/or speeds abruptly at just the wrong moment would be impeding a right of way to the lane splitter, and therefore would be at fault in my mind.

It's the same idea as you can't decide to make a left turn in a way that causes oncoming (straight-direction traffic) to hit you. If your turn requires them to slow down or stop, then you are in the wrong by impeding their right of way. Unsafe turn. You should only make a turn when you can do so safely without any action or correction from anyone else.

fintail · June 2015

Which motorcyclist is most annoying, the idiotic young daredevil in flop flops and shorts zooming around on a possibly/probably uninsured unlicensed scraped up crotch rocket, or the greybeard luckyboomer on an 1100 lb cruiser who wobbles down the road after revving it at every light, to show everyone he spent 26K on the bike and 3K on conspicuously branded gear? Tough call.

Over the nine years from 2004 to 2013, fatalities among the 40-and-older age group increased by 39 percent, according to NHTSA, compared to 16 percent for all ages. - yup, I am a vilifier.

Given the state of distracted driving enforcement in my area, combined with the wonderfully "diverse" driving culture, riding a bike from 7am-10pm seems to be a game of Russian roulette. I noticed a lot of phone use , and a slow woman in a Lexus - going slow because she was concentrating on an ice cream cone.

fintail · June 2015

That's exactly right. Make an unsignaled lane change in front of a legal lane splitter, you are at fault. And you deserve to pay. More and more bikers are using cameras to record their game of Russian roulette, so oblivious car drivers need to pay attention, or face deserved financial ruin.

The random stupid left turn has claimed a lot of bikers too, and thanks to broken laws and idiotic judges and prosecutors, probably not enough punishment.

andres3 said:

euphonium said:
How can a lane splitter not be at fault in a crash for he decided to take a chance and risk the procedure.
A lane splitter might be splitting lanes in a constant monotonous direction and velocity, with no change in direction or speed (did I just say the same thing twice?). The "other" vehicle that decides to change directions and/or speeds abruptly at just the wrong moment would be impeding a right of way to the lane splitter, and therefore would be at fault in my mind.

It's the same idea as you can't decide to make a left turn in a way that causes oncoming (straight-direction traffic) to hit you. If your turn requires them to slow down or stop, then you are in the wrong by impeding their right of way. Unsafe turn. You should only make a turn when you can do so safely without any action or correction from anyone else.

ruking1 · June 2015

Yes, that is why this stuff continues to be entertaining!

ruking1 · June 2015

fintail said:
That's exactly right. Make an unsignaled lane change in front of a legal lane splitter, you are at fault. And you deserve to pay. More and more bikers are using cameras to record their game of Russian roulette, so oblivious car drivers need to pay attention, or face deserved financial ruin.

The random stupid left turn has claimed a lot of bikers too, and thanks to broken laws and idiotic judges and prosecutors, probably not enough punishment.

andres3 said:

euphonium said:
How can a lane splitter not be at fault in a crash for he decided to take a chance and risk the procedure.
A lane splitter might be splitting lanes in a constant monotonous direction and velocity, with no change in direction or speed (did I just say the same thing twice?). The "other" vehicle that decides to change directions and/or speeds abruptly at just the wrong moment would be impeding a right of way to the lane splitter, and therefore would be at fault in my mind.

It's the same idea as you can't decide to make a left turn in a way that causes oncoming (straight-direction traffic) to hit you. If your turn requires them to slow down or stop, then you are in the wrong by impeding their right of way. Unsafe turn. You should only make a turn when you can do so safely without any action or correction from anyone else.

Lol! Too funny! As if you really believe that lane splitting motorcyclist 's signal @ significantly higher %'s than car drivers!?

Might be a subject for your dash camera! You can disprove your own specious claims ! ?

I would not expect the year to year motorcycle segments CA carnage figures to change much. It may trigger some CA Sureme Court cases, some years after legalization. It does beg the question: IF motorcycle lane splitting is as safe as they claim the study says it is , then make lane splitting for cars legal also.

fintail · June 2015

Not really funny. No signal needs to be used when splitting down a lane. One does need to be used when changing lanes, even if the anarchy preventers choose not to enforce that rule.

I live in an area where lane splitting is both not allowed, and would be horrifically dangerous, due to the diverse driver population (thanks). Maybe when I am in Germany next, I will keep an eye out. Apples to oranges though. Kind of like comparing cars and motorcycles. Cars usually can't fit between lanes, for one.

Lane splitting works best in developed first world societies with actual driving standards, which means it is tenuous in California, and not very applicable to most of the US as a whole.

ruking1 said:

Lol! Too funny! As if you really believe that lane splitting motorcyclist 's signal @ significantly higher %'s than car drivers!?

Might be a subject for your dash camera! You can disprove your own specious claims ! ?

I would not expect the year to year motorcycle segments CA carnage figures to change much. It may trigger some CA Sureme Court cases, some years after legalization. It does beg the question: IF motorcycle lane splitting is as safe as they claim the study says it is , then make lane splitting for cars legal also.

ruking1 · June 2015

fintail said:
Not really funny. No signal needs to be used when splitting down a lane. One does need to be used when changing lanes, even if the anarchy preventers choose not to enforce that rule.

I live in an area where lane splitting is both not allowed, and would be horrifically dangerous, due to the diverse driver population (thanks). Maybe when I am in Germany next, I will keep an eye out. Apples to oranges though. Kind of like comparing cars and motorcycles. Cars usually can't fit between lanes, for one.

Lane splitting works best in developed first world societies with actual driving standards, which means it is tenuous in California, and not very applicable to most of the US as a whole.

ruking1 said:

Lol! Too funny! As if you really believe that lane splitting motorcyclist 's signal @ significantly higher %'s than car drivers!?

Might be a subject for your dash camera! You can disprove your own specious claims ! ?

I would not expect the year to year motorcycle segments CA carnage figures to change much. It may trigger some CA Sureme Court cases, some years after legalization. It does beg the question: IF motorcycle lane splitting is as safe as they claim the study says it is , then make lane splitting for cars legal also.
X

Wrong on most counts!

Further, it is more a reward to the CA ambulance chasing cabals, trolling for new revenue streams (my deep pockets reference from an earlier post)! Aka, chumming.

It sounds like your state wants it too! Good luck with it, in the coming years! D Most car drivers surveyed are against it.

The good news is for so called aware (not illegal in CA for car) drivers , it has long been "old hat"! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

So for another example, ((specifically prohibited) it is not illegal in CA to split lanes with motorcycles

fintail · June 2015

Wrong where? Specifics, please.

I never said it was illegal for motorcycles in Californistan. It is here, and in virtually all other American areas. Not just illegal, but more importantly, a huge risk, based on the caliber of the average local motorist. My state won't get it.

ruking1 said:

Wrong on most counts!

Further, it is more a reward to the CA ambulance chasing cabals, trolling for new revenue streams (my deep pockets reference from an earlier post)! It sounds like your state wants it too! Good luck with it, in the coming years! D Most car drivers surveyed are against it.

The good news is for so called aware (not illegal in CA for car) drivers , it has long been "old hat"! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

So for another example, ((specifically prohibited) it is not illegal in CA to split lanes with motorcycles

ruking1 · June 2015

Where did you get that I said you said it was illegal for motorcycles in CA ? You need to deal with you sub ESL issues!

Right, you HOPE WA state doesn't get it

Good luck either way!

Nice little road rage incident on ABC News. Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry (if branding is important) in LALA land no less. It was caught by witness video. Talking head said a uniformed traffic LEO was also a witness. The guy in the tie and owner of Camry threw the first punch. When they went to square off in the lane, he kept punching till the Honda driver hit the pavement, almost getting hit by an opposite direction heading van. He got back in his Camry and buzzed off.

I am sure it would be easy to tally potential criminal charges.

xwesx · June 2015

Fun stuff! Not to nitpick (I may have found a different incident vid?), but those were both Toyotas.... driving one of those for too long would lead anyone to road rage!

fintail · June 2015

Why would you tell me it was not illegal to split lanes in Californiastan if I had not said otherwise?

WA won't get it. The driving skill here is too low. For all of its faults, I found drivers in LA to be better skilled than those around here, at least they move along, can merge, and don't dawdle and wobble around so much. It may be different in the lucky areas around the Bay.

A Camry driver should have been bored into a coma. Must have been one of the bold new models. I get irritated in traffic as much as anyone, not sure why anyone would throw punches. Is this on youtube?

ruking1 said:
Where did you get that I said you said it was illegal for motorcycles in CA ? You need to deal with you sub ESL issues!

Right, you HOPE WA state doesn't get it Good luck either way!

Nice little road rage incident on ABC News. Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry (if branding is important) in LALA land no less. It was caught by witness video. Talking head said a uniformed traffic LEO was also a witness. The guy in the tie and owner of Camry threw the first punch. When they went to square off in the lane, he kept punching till the Honda driver hit the pavement, almost getting hit by an opposite direction heading van. He got back in his Camry and buzzed off.

I am sure it would be easy to tally potential criminal charges.

ruking1 · June 2015

xwesx said:
Fun stuff! Not to nitpick (I may have found a different incident vid?), but those were both Toyotas.... driving one of those for too long would lead anyone to road rage!

I know both logos when I see them. So we may be referring to different video's, or for whatever reasons, it was fuzzed out. One update has a DOT officer as witnesses , but not sure what that does and can mean.

Just got another one. A guy in the tie is a lawyer. The other guy was a retired police officer! Seems the cop is choking out the lawyer in prevention of fisticuffs.

Can't even make this stuff up ???

ruking1 · June 2015

fintail said:
Why would you tell me it was not illegal to split lanes in Californiastan if I had not said otherwise?

WA won't get it. The driving skill here is too low. For all of its faults, I found drivers in LA to be better skilled than those around here, at least they move along, can merge, and don't dawdle and wobble around so much. It may be different in the lucky areas around the Bay.

A Camry driver should have been bored into a coma. Must have been one of the bold new models. I get irritated in traffic as much as anyone, not sure why anyone would throw punches. Is this on youtube?

ruking1 said:
Where did you get that I said you said it was illegal for motorcycles in CA ? You need to deal with you sub ESL issues!

Right, you HOPE WA state doesn't get it Good luck either way!

Nice little road rage incident on ABC News. Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry (if branding is important) in LALA land no less. It was caught by witness video. Talking head said a uniformed traffic LEO was also a witness. The guy in the tie and owner of Camry threw the first punch. When they went to square off in the lane, he kept punching till the Honda driver hit the pavement, almost getting hit by an opposite direction heading van. He got back in his Camry and buzzed off.

I am sure it would be easy to tally potential criminal charges.

When your sub now further sub ESL issues are resolved, tell me and we will both know!
(greater board discussion also, but most don't seem to care. So if you don't, stop personalizing it) But let's move on!

I have thought and still think, the smart thing to do is to leave the lane splitting (LS) alone or ban it, like the overwhelming majority of states! Neither seems to be the paths the CA legislature are taking on this issue. ( more like decision trees) So it will be interesting, say 5 years from now to see where LS legislation has gone and the resultant statistics. I don't think your idea of lesser skill set has much to do with the legislative efforts. It was almost overwhelmingly passed (CA legislature) , against the NHTSA data indicating almost epidemic motorcycle accident/fatality statistics.

Further, I have read the various motorcycle cabals see this as a CA state and national precedence setting test case

Yes the scales of say your WA area are way smaller than the over all metro Bay Area. LALA land as you may agree is FAR more larger of scale than either and / or combined.

xwesx · June 2015

ruking1 said:
we may be referring to different video's

Yes, we probably are referring to different incidents. This is the one I watched.

ruking1 · June 2015

I was not able to get a lock on the cable TV video.

I watched your post with interest . So even with license plates and video felony evidence, LALA lands "code" seems to be the three monkeys policy: hear , see, say no evil. Submit for disapproval. Resubmit in 90 days for final disapproval.

Case closed. Funny how a foreigner/emigrant/refugee from Harry Reid's devastated NV state instigated the episode. Send that SCUM refugee HOME!

Where are the RACE baiters when you need them? Off topic but really on topic. The WSJ reports a WORLDWIDE and massive glut on COTTON !? Aka price depressions. Now a days this is an economic dagger to the heart to places like Lubbock Tx and the Punjab, India.

andres3 · June 2015

People are always claiming new traffic laws will lead to more blood and death on the roads, but year in and year out, accidents and deaths are reduced almost like clock work, with very few exceptions.

Motorcycle statistics maybe headed on a different trajectory, but the law is new; so we shall see who is right in a couple of years.

ruking1 · June 2015

andres3 said:
People are always claiming new traffic laws will lead to more blood and death on the roads, but year in and year out, accidents and deaths are reduced almost like clock work, with very few exceptions.

Motorcycle statistics maybe headed on a different trajectory, but the law is new; so we shall see who is right in a couple of years.

Yes! And I make no such claims !!! And yes the motorcycle segment is one of those VERY few exceptions !!!

The additional anomaly is this law is in 1 or two of 50 states, slated for passage , fifty nine according to the BHO POTUS? I have read Texas might pass a similar motorcycle lane splitting law, which would make two states.

TMI both states have higher volumes of motorcycle accidents, injury and deaths than most others.

ruking1 · June 2015

And why are the race baiters not on this like flies on M-----e?

WRONG RACE !! ??

Notice also the union cabal LAWYERed protection for the guilty felony (but copping to lesser charges) undercover defective.

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-convicts-ny-detective-bloody-road-rage-chase-173013752.html

andres3 · June 2015

ruking1 said:

andres3 said:
People are always claiming new traffic laws will lead to more blood and death on the roads, but year in and year out, accidents and deaths are reduced almost like clock work, with very few exceptions.

Motorcycle statistics maybe headed on a different trajectory, but the law is new; so we shall see who is right in a couple of years.
Yes! And I make no such claims !!! And yes the motorcycle segment is one of those VERY few exceptions !!!

The additional anomaly is this law is in 1 or two of 50 states, slated for passage , fifty nine according to the BHO POTUS? I have read Texas might pass a similar motorcycle lane splitting law, which would make two states.

TMI both states have higher volumes of motorcycle accidents, injury and deaths than most others.

Higher volumes of accidents, or higher rates? CA and TX are two giant states, both in size and in population. Not fair if the numbers are not adjusted to something like per million miles traveled.

andres3 · June 2015

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-convicts-ny-detective-bloody-road-rage-chase-173013752.html Yes, this is a good story. It seems the anarchy preventers are the ones who are causing all of the anarchy themselves!

ruking1 · June 2015

andres3 said:

ruking1 said:

andres3 said:
People are always claiming new traffic laws will lead to more blood and death on the roads, but year in and year out, accidents and deaths are reduced almost like clock work, with very few exceptions.

Motorcycle statistics maybe headed on a different trajectory, but the law is new; so we shall see who is right in a couple of years.
Yes! And I make no such claims !!! And yes the motorcycle segment is one of those VERY few exceptions !!!

The additional anomaly is this law is in 1 or two of 50 states, slated for passage , fifty nine according to the BHO POTUS? I have read Texas might pass a similar motorcycle lane splitting law, which would make two states.

TMI both states have higher volumes of motorcycle accidents, injury and deaths than most others.
Higher volumes of accidents, or higher rates? CA and TX are two giant states, both in size and in population. Not fair if the numbers are not adjusted to something like per million miles traveled.

Indeed ! I am glad you caught that distinction!

This is more TMI, but the case $$'s are much greater under the cover of no increased statistical degradation (RATES in TX, CA).

ruking1 · June 2015

andres3 said:
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-convicts-ny-detective-bloody-road-rage-chase-173013752.html Yes, this is a good story. It seems the anarchy preventers are the ones who are causing all of the anarchy themselves!

I'm not sure if this is still true, but a local large (one might dispute LARGE, so pop of 1 m) municipality close to here, used/ still does employ/s local HELL's ANGEL's ( motorcycle gang).

The PRESIDENT of the local club "retired", from the municipality due to extracurricular activities affecting his suitability to make it to work? http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18971523

Yes, I know, gone are the heydays of carrying the dead guys votes and union memberships.

Indeed he is/was a card carrying member of the cabals of union thugs.

I am sure he is still drawing his FULL roster of benefits from the union and municipality.

I can't even make this stuff up! ?

Mr_Shiftright · June 2015

I think we have to view motorcycle accidents differently because the risk of injury per accident is a lot higher.

One form of motorcycle behavior that really ticks me off is when I see the oncoming headlight of a motorcycle behind me--so I signal to pull into the right lane, and as I'm about to do this the motorcycle swoops behind me into the right lane without signaling...to try and pass me on the right. If he doesn't signal, tough...I'm moving over.

ruking1 · June 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think we have to view motorcycle accidents differently because the risk of injury per accident is a lot higher.

One form of motorcycle behavior that really ticks me off is when I see the oncoming headlight of a motorcycle behind me--so I signal to pull into the right lane, and as I'm about to do this the motorcycle swoops behind me into the right lane without signaling...to try and pass me on the right. If he doesn't signal, tough...I'm moving over.

Unless I mistake your meaning, you are agreeing with the stats and further along the discussion lines, what I and others are/have been saying.

Yes ! They are a host of reasons why, situational, structural and attitudinal, etc.,etc.

xwesx · June 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
One form of motorcycle behavior that really ticks me off is when I see the oncoming headlight of a motorcycle behind me--so I signal to pull into the right lane, and as I'm about to do this the motorcycle swoops behind me into the right lane without signaling...to try and pass me on the right. If he doesn't signal, tough...I'm moving over.

I don't see anything wrong with that decision (yours not theirs). The most basic rule of the road is to yield to vehicles ahead of you on the roadway, so if the biker hits you or crashes as a result of that maneuver, it's their own problem (literally as well as figuratively).

Mr_Shiftright · June 2015

Well if you're going 20-25 over the limit and not signaling, that's pretty reckless.

What amazes me is how they can stand the punishment of going 80-85 on a motorcycle with no fairing, no leathers and no helmet. Even if you are that "tough" you have to be having vision and hearing issues.

ruking1 · June 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Well if you're going 20-25 over the limit and not signaling, that's pretty reckless.

What amazes me is how they can stand the punishment of going 80-85 on a motorcycle with no fairing, no leathers and no helmet. Even if you are that "tough" you have to be having vision and hearing issues.

That is only 85 to 90 mph! ?

Occasionally, (not rare) down here (from your area) it is nice to see bullet bikes pass me/us going what, 100 mph to 130 mph!! ?? I have yet to see ANY LEO in any let alone HOT pursuit. ( Aka, in many years)

andres3 · June 2015

Reckless driving doesn't pay as well as regular old speeding. If you leave the infraction zone and enter into misdemeanors you then give up the right to blatantly and flagrantly violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which many judges believe is OK in the lowly traffic courts, since infractions are so minor (though PC 19.7 says differently).

ruking1 · June 2015

Is this a fantasy or what?

Slow left lane drivers, it’s time to speed up or pay the dawdle tax

BGR News
BGR News
Chris Smith
June 12, 2015

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/slow-left-lane-drivers-time-speed-pay-dawdle-105032778.html

Is this how most fish stories start?

How Poop-Powered Vehicles Could Drive A Cleaner Future

Alex Lloyd
Editor at Large
May 28, 2015

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/how-poop-powered-vehicles-could-make-for-a-cleaner-120120095837.html

xwesx · June 2015

The problem that I see with the this is that the article implies that these fines are for drivers that are below the SL in the left lane. Speed should be irrelevant in this case. If you hold up traffic in the left lane, you shouldn't be there.

What's more, laws themselves are irrelevant if there is no enforcement. If the police want to maximize their revenue potential through enforcement of traffic law infractions, they should heavily cite those infringing LLC laws, which will likely lead to the ability for them to then further cite speeding violations as a result of more liberal movement within the left lane! That's a win for everyone: Lower road rage frequency, higher enforcement revenue, possibly higher insurance rates (shareholders gotta eat, too!), freer highway movement, and better lane discipline.

andres3 · June 2015

Yes, why complicate the law with references to speed!!! If you are in the left lane, you have to either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Simply put, "if you are not in the act of passing someone imminently, then you are ILLEGALLY in the left lane."

No more words needed.

euphonium · June 2015

From a road trip that includes I-5 from Seattle to Portland this Friday afternoon & evening all lanes were filled to where traffic came to a halt adjacent to Ft. Lewis. There were not only LLC, but vehicles towing utility trailers in the inside of 3 or more lanes. When towing anything you are ILLEGALLY in the left lane. People drive where they damn well please so get used to it.

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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