Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rsholland · January 2012

I expect the US-spec Crosstrek to debut at the NY auto show, not Detroit, and go on sale in late summer or early fall.

At Detroit the US-spec BRZ will debut, and SOA will want all the focus on that car.

Bob

rsholland · January 2012

I expect Subaru to show something new roughly every 6 months.

New models to come: WRX/WRX STI, Forester, Hybrid, Legacy/Outback, BRZ STI and Tribeca. Not sure which will come first, or what the order of debuts will be, but I do expect the Tribeca to be last as it's the least important model in their lineup.

Bob

bpizzuti · January 2012

The NY show isn't too much trouble, provided I can haul my tail down to NYC. I'm in the Mid-hudson. My company isn't exhibiting there, though, so I'll probably have to pay to get in...and for the train.

Might just do that this year, haven't gone in a while. When you work trade shows, sometimes they're not quite as fun to attend. :shades:

ateixeira · January 2012

Forester traditionally shows up at the NY show, but given we've seen and heard nothing, I'm betting it won't be this year.

My fearless forecast:

NY 2012 - WRX and STI
SEMA 2012 - BRZ STI
LA 2012 - Hybrid
NY 2013 - New Forester

Outback and Legacy are quite a ways off, maybe a show in 2014?

I don't think they will do another Tribeca.

xwesx · January 2012

New forester not until the 2013 New York show? I remember a couple years ago they said they were going to 4-year model cycles (which they held to for the Impreza), so I would expect a new Forester for MY13, and then the Legacy/Outback for MY14. Is that not still the plan?

bpizzuti · January 2012

Unless the XV is the new "Forester."

rsholland · January 2012

No, it's not. There will be a new Forester. Just when, I'm not sure?

Bob

bpizzuti · January 2012

Thought I read somewhere that the next Forester would actually use the Tribeca platform, so I could see the XV taking over the "small" SUV spot. Assuming that's accurate of course.

rsholland · January 2012

Highly unlikely. The Forester has developed a strong audience, being the kind of vehicle it is, so I don't think that FHI will risk that by changing so dramatically.

The "rumor" I heard is that the next Tribeca and the next Toyota Highlander may be co-developed. We'll see.

Bob

rsholland · January 2012

I know most of us wonder why Subaru is keeping this vehicle in the market, as it sells so poorly. Here's my take:

 Subaru sells the Tribeca overseas, and in most markets in which Subarus are sold. That's a lot of countries. I've also been told that Subaru sells more Tribecas in Russia than they do here. So the overseas sales offers some justification for keeping it around. BTW, all those overseas sales are US exports, as the Tribeca is only made in Indiana. So, as small as that may be, it's still good news for the American economy.

 Subaru needs a 7-passenger vehicle in their American lineup. Even though sales are marginal, it's better to offer the Tribeca than not to offer it.

 The Toyota Highlander rumor makes senseif they can maintain Subaru's unique engineering. I'm hoping that from from the A-pillar forward, it will be pure Subaru, meaning using the 6-cylinder boxer engine, and that the Highlander (from the A pillar forward) will be pure Toyota (using their V6).

If this happens, I expect it around MY 2014.

Bob

rsholland · January 2012

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/10/4176459/subaru-selects-aha-to-deliver.html

Sounds like Subaru an smartphones and cars are finally coming of age. Right not this is only iPhone-friendly, but other systems (droid, etc.) on the way.

Bob

ateixeira · January 2012

New forester not until the 2013 New York show?

Just a gut feeling I have.

The current model is still selling well, and the tsunami set them back about 6 months.

Unless they break from the tradition of launching the Forester at NY (98, 03, 09), I don't see how they can make that deadline.

ateixeira · January 2012

In related news, the only song the stereo will play is....

Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake, oooooooooooooon, MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

xwesx · January 2012

G-R-O-A-N

I jest, AJ. In reality, I managed a good chuckle from that comment.

ateixeira · January 2012

The tech needs a better name.

Of course given the big name brands that signed up, maybe not?

rsholland · February 2012

Also, all-new Forester due next January in Australia.

This is great news, and opens up all sorts of other CVT possibilities.

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/drive/motor-news/subaru-diesels-to-get-automatic-t- - ransmission-20120227-1txa5.html

Bob

xwesx · February 2012

While it's fine for the Outback, I don't like that news in general because if "that's the future direction for [Subaru]," according to the article, then they may be inclined to jump on the phase-out-the-manual-transmission bandwagon. That just makes me sad.

rsholland · February 2012

No question in my mind that manuals are going the way of the dinosaurand not just with Subaru. It's just a matter of time before most Subarus lose that third pedal. Other than for some (and the list is getting smaller every day) performance cars and bottom-feeder econo-cars, manuals are almost nonexistent.

To hammer home this point, I recently read that only about 1/3 of new Porsche 911s sold are equipped with manuals. Now that should tell you something. Their PDK just flat out out-perfoms their stick-shift cars.

So why a CVT vs all the other type of auto-type boxes? Gas mileage, pure and simple. CVTs get better mpg numbers, and with the ever-tightening EPA regulations, more and more automakers are going that route.

Bob

colin_l · February 2012

Couldn't agree more with this post. On the exotic front, Ferrari was a very early adopter of sequential computer-controlled 'manumatics' and now they sell only one car with a manual, the California.

I think it's going to be a variety of automatics in the future with manuals becoming very niche if not extinct in 10 years or less.

rsholland · February 2012

I do hope Subaru has a DSG in the works for the WRX, STI and other performance-oriented models, and keep the CVT for their more mainstream models.

This new "high-capacity" CVT has me really curious though. Wonder how much power it's engineered to handle? I hope it's a lot.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2012

I wonder, though...diesel fans tend to be old school, they may prefer the manual. I hope that's offered here.

Basically I think CVT fans and diesel fans are mutually exclusive.

rblnr · February 2012

just rated Subaru the best auto manufacturer and the Impreza best small sedan. Good news.

rsholland · March 2012

May add a 2-door model? Debating as to whether to stay "raw" or move these cars to a more Euro-like (refined and more upscale) direction. If they go for the latter, the STI could become a legit M-Car/AMG competitor.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-to-decide-wrxs-fate-in-the-very-near-future.h- - tml

Bob

ateixeira · March 2012

The BRZ can cater to those folks, so I would not be surprised to see it move a little upscale.

Then a 2l turbo is going to be high strung, so maybe not. They would have to go H6+turbo to fight up in that territory.

xwesx · March 2012

Ah, here's a perfect halo (performance) car direction for the BRZ:

2+2 coupe, 2,500# or less, RWD H6 Turbo @ 350HP. :shades:

colin_l · March 2012

I disagree. If you look at the HD truck market with diesels, there are very few manuals sold anymore. It *used* to be utterly dominated with manuals and they still sell far more manuals than with any other truck type, but ever since the ~2000s when decently reliable automatics were finally offered the automatics are the major player.

I also think VW sells quite a lot of DSG in their diesel cars and suvs.

bpizzuti · March 2012

Have you seen the BRZ yet? Trust me, 2+2 is being VERY generous on the second "2." Makes a Mustang look roomy in the back. 2+2 would be an EXPANSION of back seat room. :shades:

ateixeira · March 2012

I'm not sure how adding 2 cylinders and a turbo are going to remove about 200 pounds.

Even if they add lightness and go with aluminum body panels, it's already a light car, they'll get diminishing returns.

ateixeira · March 2012

Auto or DSG, sure, but CVT?

There is a resistance to CVTs from the crowd that likes diesels.

KCRam · March 2012

Ram is the only HD pickup still offering a manual transmission, and it may not last too much longer as it's a holdover from Daimler. Chrysler was supposed to have made a heavy duty automated manual 7-speed with Getrag to replace it, but that joint venture died 4 years ago. They may look to ZF or Eaton for such a tranny going forward, as both those suppliers already make medium/heavy (class 6-8) automated manuals.

The fear with a CVT in such an application is likely the amount of torque at low rpm. Ford and Ram diesels are currently generating 800 lb-ft at 2000/1600 rpm respectively through 6-speed automatics... the guy pulling a livestock or RV trailer doesn't want to find out a CVT may give out while climbing a 7% grade at highway speed and max GCW. Once the heavy rigs do it, then it will move down through the weight classes.

kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

xwesx · March 2012

Yeah, it is essentially impossible to find an MT pickup truck in the modern fleets. Oh well, at least I have my '69 Chevy! :shades:

xwesx · March 2012

Should be pretty easy - take out the Toyota bloat and boom, you're there. :P

And no, I haven't seen the BRZ in person, but I also have never seen a 2+2 that had a rear seat that came anywhere near what could be considered comfortable. That said, at least there's an option for an additional occupant or two when needed.

ateixeira · March 2012

Bob, Frank, and I sat inside a BRZ at the DC Auto Show.

Front seats is comfy, love the steering wheel, plenty of leg and head room up front.

I didn't even try the back seat. You could put a briefcase or a few small grocery bags there, but not much else.

Kids? Maybe 7 and under...if you slide the front seats way forward.

xwesx · March 2012

Ah, yes, that elicits fond memories of when my parents first married in 1980. My step-mother had a 1977 Nissan/Datsun 300ZX or whatever those things were called, and there were three children between the two of them. That was pretty cramped, but then we didn't have child seats back then, so we could squeeze into fairly tight spaces!

We all went to Disneyland for their "honeymoon," and I seem to remember the ZX disappearing very soon after we arrived home... replaced by a 1980 Subaru GL wagon. I guess sixteen hours (or however long it took to drive there from Pendleton, Oregon) each way listening to three children killing each other in the back seat, and yelling "scoot over!" endlessly, was a little too much for their nerves. :P

She sure was sad to see it go, though.

rsholland · March 2012

I wouldn't even put small kids in the back seat of a BRZ, as they will likely require a child- or booster-seat of some sort. For all intents and purposed, the rear seat is useless for humans.

The space will likely be put to good use when the convertible version shows up, as that's where the folded top will go.

Bob

xwesx · March 2012

For all intents and purposes, the rear seat is useless for humans.

I was curious, so I hunted for a photo. For some reason, the rear seat doesn't seem to be the focus of many shots (note sarcasm). However, I did find this one:

http://www.zercustoms.com/photos/Subaru-BRZ/Subaru-BRZ-9.jpg.html

You were not kidding! Dang that's tight (in a literal sense). But, thinking back on it, I don't recall ever being in a sporty couple where the back seat wasn't tight light that. You just wedge a leg on either side of the front seatback, and hunker down for the long haul.

colin_l · March 2012

first I've seen of the BRZ rear seat.

we call those 'insurance' seats.

ateixeira · March 2012

Parcel shelf.

rsholland · March 2012

Exactly. They're just there to keep the insurance rates down; same with the rear seats in a 911 (and about as usable).

Here's another image:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1111_2011_tokyo_motor_show_subaru_brz- - - _first_look/photo_07.html

One plus, when folded, you could probably hide some small valuables thanks to the two deep seat pockets. Too bad it's not a split fold, though.

Bob

ateixeira · March 2012

One advantage over a pure 2 seater (like my Miata) is that you could slide the front seat all the way up and still take a kid in a booster seat back there.

So in jurisdictions were a child cannot ride in the front seat, you can still transport one child.

That used to be an issue for me.

colin_l · March 2012

That is actually true. A really small kid in a rear-facing seat doesn't need legroom, either.

ateixeira · March 2012

I guess the Miata seats 2 adults, while the BRZ can seat 2 adults or 1 adult and 1 child.

So it is a bit more flexible in that way.

gmginsfo · March 2012

Agree 100%. I never thought I'd use the paddles on my 2010 Outback CVT, but I use them all the time for slowing and down hills. If only they were paired with a bigger 4 or the H-6!

I've noticed going up hills is that I can drop RPMs - and add MPG - by engaging cruise control. And, unlike many CCs, Subaru's does a great job of holding speed on long uphill runs.

volkov · March 2012

2+2= (USUALLY) lower insuance $$ but in some cases, the added bulk of a car seat doesn't work well back there. In some juristictions (mine included) it is illegal for kids to ride in the front seat unless there is no back seat. I'm sure a Lotus Elise was not the inspiration for this exception, but it is there. REMEMBER, that's why cowboy hats turm up at the sides......so you can sit four wide in a pick-up.

xwesx · March 2012

Hahah; that's darn funny. I hadn't heard that before. Where I grew up, it was proper etiquette to remove your (cowboy) hat indoors and in vehicles, so there was never room for more than two across in a pickup. Everyone else had to ride in the back! The expression "hold on to your hats" was born here.... :P

Personally, I don't care much about where a government body tells me my children can ride. I make those decisions for myself and my family.

once_for_all · March 2012

mentioned today at my Subie dealer, 1000 units for 2012 and they only get two of them. Both are pre-sold.

Looks like I may get a chance to save up some Subaru bucks, after all...

John

rsholland · March 2012

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0IaE4I7Fh0NcXZJU0dmdXlRR2lXMnBOR0wzd194Zw/edit

Lot's of neat info here.

Bob

rsholland · March 2012

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-subaru-forester-spy-photos-news

Should be announced at the next LA or Detroit show, as it's rumored to go on sale next january in Australia, probably here next spring.

Note that it continues to use the Impreza dashboarda smart move.

Bob

samiam_68 · March 2012

These manuals are geting a bit verbose lately. 145 pages on door locks and air bags before it even gets to starting the car... LOL

ateixeira · March 2012

I like it, evolutionary, boxy shape, only a tad bigger. Interior looks improved.

Cost cutting police: dual exhaust is gone.

Looks good from what I can see, though.

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles