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I expect this number to drop a little after break in & I start driving it harder. Experience tells me to expect 19 MPG on highway
Our gut instinct tells us not to get it (we didn't get one for our Subaru Forester). Consumer Reports says don't get it unless you know that the particular vehicle has a tendency to be unreliable... but that you shouldn't buy such a vehicle in the first place...
We have no way of knowing how reliable this GM full-sized van is gonna be. Consumer Reports doesn't even mention it, and it's a pretty rare vehicle - not enough owners to give us an idea of what our experience may be like.
Whaddya all think??? To warranty or not to warranty?
The finance dude is another salesman?
1. I'd run to the bank first and get prequalified for the best rate possible before going to the dealer. If the dealer can beat it, good for him. If not, you've get a good rate. You DO NOT want to go to the dealer without a loan already arranged, or you'll be forced to take whatever they can get you.
2. I've always heard that extended warranties aren't worth it unless you know you're gonna put tremendous miles on a vehicle, and thus be out of the regular warranty in a short time. I've never yet been in such a situation.
Remember, with any warranty work, the service manager gets to determine whether the problem in question constitutes normal wear and tear, in which case you'll hear something like, "Hey, I'd like to fix it under warranty but I know the manufacturer won't reimburse me for it."
I'd skip the extended warranty. It's a very durable vehicle in general. With normal maintenance it should serve you well for a long time.
And get that loan approved NOW. That's where you could lose some SERIOUS money.
As for the finance dude, I *hope* he isn't another salesman... but, based on what I've learned here at Edmunds and elsewhere, I'm preparing myself for the worst...
And, finally, financing? No sweat: there's an incentive on now for 2.9% GMAC for 36 months OR $500 cash back (if we choose the latter, we wouldn't get another loan)... we're still going back and forth on which way to go...
Hard to imagine that the $500 could beat the 2.9%. I guess some people would rather have the cash in hand. I'd *definitely* go for the 2.9%.
The Savanna passenger van might be a rarity in the world but our little dealership usually had (seems like) 8 or 10 of em on hand. Maybe 6 or 8. Anyway, it's not gonna make it hard to fix or get parts for.
midasgold, your break-even on a 36 month loan is 6.25%, if you go the full 36 months. A 3 year loan might also carry some rather hefty payments.
Jerry
Nah, I'm not worried about parts or stuff like that - as I said, the cargo vans are everywhere, and the 5.7L Vortec engine is pretty ubiquitous...
jboater: you're right that the 3-yr loan would have had big payments. According to our Quicken software, they would have been around $668/mo. A longer loan would have smaller payments, but with this particular incentive the rate goes up one point for each additional year (2.9/36 mo, 3.9/48 mo, 4.9/60 mo). We weren't interested in the size of the payments as much as the big picture, though.
Would you mind telling me how you arrived at 6.25% as the break-even rate?
It's somewhat regional, what the different dealers stock, and it's also somewhat personal. Some of the other salesmen would occasionally wonder out loud if management knew what they were doing stocking so many passenger Savannas.
We're interested in getting one, not only to protect the front edge of the hood, but to hopefully help us discern where the front right corner of the van is during maneuvers. We drove our (well, almost our) Savana for the first time yesterday, and neither my DH nor I could see the front end of this beast from the driver's seat, even with the seat in its highest position!
Their auto insurance rates are good if you qualify for the 5 yr. good driving discount.
Hope you enjoy your new van. We picked up an Express a while back and have no regrets--as long as gas stays under $2/gallon.
We didn't get either warranty (GMAC or Gieco). My philosophy is that if you self insure you'll make out in the long run. I'll only insure when I can't manage the loss such as life, health, homeowners, collision, etc. A $2000 transmission would be a bummer so I stayed clear of Chrysler minivans!
I also went with the cheap financing since we hold onto our cars till they drop. Mileage on our cars before the van purchase were 183,000 (a '90 Buick) and 223,000 ('88 Honda).
Since my Buick has been amazingly trouble free, and still does not burn oil, it helped me in my decision to skip the warranties when I purchased the Express.
Re: high-mileage GM cars - Our '84 Chevy Celebrity wagon is also about to hit 160K. Since we now have teenagers, we plan to keep it as a 3rd car 'till it dies. It's nice to have for those extremely short cold-engine errands, to spare the new cars from the wear 'n tear of such "abuse." Overall, it's been a very reliable car, but has had some big-ticket repairs that we considered the better alternative to buying a new car. The (original) tranny is starting to slip ominously, though...
Well, we brought our Savana ("The Monster") home yesterday evening. :-) Couple of surprises:
1) The bench seats don't have the head restraints that I could've sworn were supposed to be there (on the two outside seating positions of each bench). I dug up the old brochures, and it turns out that only the '97 model had head restraints (at least I know I did see them somewhere, and haven't lost my mind!) - for '98 and '99, no head restraints! Is it because trucks are exempt from the requirement (if such a requirement exists) and GM cheaped out, or because people complained that they interfered with rearward visibility? Heck, they could have at least kept them and left us the option of removing them temporarily when not needed...
2) Where's the rear cargo-area 12V outlet? I could swear it was in the earlier models ('97 for sure, possibly '98). Did they cheap out on that, too?
Other than that, we're very satisfied, so far... though it drives like... well, like a truck! We also need to learn how to take right turns without making the back wheel go over the curb! Sheesh, and people want to buy Ford Excursions?! ;-)
On the break even question, it was partly a guess-timate on my part. I assumed a loan of about 10K and I use an Excel spreadsheet to do what-ifs.
Given the 668. payment you referenced, your break even on 36 months would have been 5.00%. Sounds like a loan of about 15,500.
Jerry
Scratch that last one. I've just executed a little GIGO, (garbage in, garbage out).
Break even @ 4.50 on a loan of 23000. for 36 months.
http://wellengaged.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?f=0&c=Vans&t=26&q=71-88
That should turn up some results. There are some other topics too. I didn't check them all.
Re. your front fender, you can buy lighted stalks that allow you to see where your limits are - if you can stand the "look". I would almost bet you'd hit the front bumper though, before you hit your fender.
Re. turning corners: Remember that your front wheels are almost at your legs, not 3 feet in front of you like in a car. So when you make a right turn, allow your front end to go out into the lane farther before cranking the steering wheel to the right. I have master this; however, my wife, who only drives the van occasionally, still has problems, judging by the scuff marks on the whitewalls after her use.
Re: seeing the front-end - so THAT's what those stalk thingies are for! I think I'll pass... but I will go ahead and get a hood deflector; even if it ends up not being visible from the driver's seat, it will at least serve the purpose of deflecting whatever it is those things deflect. So far, I've found it at Performance Products (link from Edmunds) and Weathertech.
Thanks for the steering tip! The more we drive this thing, the easier it gets. I even *like* driving it now. :-)
How 'bout floor/cargo mats? The floor mats that came with the van are woefully inadequate, and there's no cargo mat at all. The van is less than a week old and the carpet is already dirty! So, 1) what's the best way to clean the carpet, and 2) has anyone found good floor/cargo mats that fit the Savana/Express (especially the deeply grooved kind with the big lip around the edge to catch spills)?
I have mixed emotions about hood deflectors. Some of the ones that seem to be painted on the reverse side and are shiny like paint on the surface and curve back over the hood somewhat look very nice. Unfortunately, I suspect that they are the least effective in deflecting bugs and stones, etc. Also, I suspect that they would hinder the throughness of an automatic car wash in getting to the place immediately behind the deflector.
On the subject of mats and cargo mats. I called one of those companies that advertise cargo mats in the back of auto magazines to inquire about mats for the Express/Savana. They do not make them - insufficient demand. Keep asking them though, and maybe they will start making them. For my old 86 Dodge van, I went to a local hardware store and got them to cut a measured length of commercial carpet runner for the middle aisle of my conversion van and for the rear. It worked real well and looked pretty good also. They are so reasonable(about $1.50-2.00/running foot about 4 feet in width)that you can toss them away when they get real dirty. You may want to check out that option.
Re. floor mats, there are companies that make front mats for large vans. I have some in my 86 Dodge van. They have carpet inlaid in a rubber base and blend well and look good with the regular carpeting. The only problem is that they do not cover the wheelwell hump, so I try to keep my feet off of this. Unfortunately, other don't, however. I reverse the drivers side mat (front to back) to get more coverage where my feet are the most.
Re. covering the carpet with a plain rubber or vinyl mat doesn't make much sense to me, if I may be frank. In other words, why spend more for the carpet and then cover it with the stuff you would have gotten had you not spent the extra bucks for the carpet? The only exception to this would be the carpet mats or clear vinyl. My wife and I recently restored her 74 Chev Caprice convertible,which included the installation of new beige carpeting. We purchased lightweight clear vinyl mats so you could still see the color of the carpeting through the mat, and it looks quite good.
On the seats, I was just looking thru the 1999 brochure for the Express Van and I am almost positive that the vinyl seats could be ordered with the higher option interior package, comparable to the SLE. I don't know why it would be different for the Savana. But, if you are a real vinyl/plastic lover, you can get clear vinyl seatcovers also. They are not very omfortable but they do save your seats from getting soiled.Check with an upholstery/seatcover installer.
I don't know that this is true. Just something a knowledgeable salesman (a friend; he wasn't trying to sell me anything) said.
It's hilarious! The hood prop is only about 6 inches long (well, maybe I'm exaggerating a little) - that's all that's needed to hold up the stubby hood. Inside, all you see are the plastic fluid reservoirs, which conceal the engine underneath and behind. All the fluid dipsticks and reservoir caps are neatly lined up right up front, which is handy. I pulled out the engine oil stick... and pulled... and pulled... and pulled... My Gawd! It must be 6 feet long!!! LOL! Not so easy to snake it all back in, let me tell you!
I was also wondering if the new 5.3 will find its way into the van. If it's dimensions are appreciably smaller than the 5.7's, I'm sure the extra room would be very welcome!
C13, You are probably right about the engines. I was told that the chance of them making it in the same year as the Suburban (2000) was slim, but there is a chance. Afterall, there is no benefit to GM producing two separate lines of engines. I think the Ford Mustang got their new 4.6 liter V8 about a year after it was introduced on the full size cars. I guess I'll just have to take my chances.
I did hear mixed stories about the chassis, however. One was that the van was the first to employ the new techniques when they made a radical body change a couple of years ago. Then the truchs changed, followed by the Suburban (2000); but maybe I was being told something that the person thought I wanted to hear.
Are you sure about the Dodge being unibody? My 86 Dodge van has a frame from my view while performing oil changes. This would mean the Dodge went from frame to unibody, while GM went from unibody to frame??? Maybe GM felt they could make this move and still maintain structural rigidity, etc. by the use of "hydroforming". What's your guess? Usually, manufacturers don't move this radically in opposing directions.
"Dodge Ram Passenger Wagons are built with stronger and lighter Unibody construction, instead of a body-on-frame design."
I was under the impression that the Dodges were always unibody, and haven't yet made a really radical change to their vans the way Ford did in '92 and GM did in '96. Dodge's van is still basically the same (except for cosmetic and other tweaks) as it's been since the early 70's. You may notice that they still don't have flush-mounted windows, while Ford and GM now do.
On ours, both the right and left "humps" have depressions in them, like big dents. Are they supposed to be there, or did somebody stomp on them and sort of "crush" them, leaving depressions behind?
I just want to know of other vans have them, too - or if we should have our dealer take a look.
Thanks!
A lot depends on the condition and how it looks. If it looks real good in and out and the miles were probably a lot of long distance drives, my guess would be about $2-3K. Suggest going to an NADA guide (Conversion guides are harder to find) and look up a Ford factory passenger van. The value should be comparable.
It's kind of odd when you think about it... When you consider the popularity of family-friendly, feature-laden minivans, and the even greater popularity of the-bigger-the-better SUVs... you would think that a full-sized van would be the ULTIMATE HYBRID, wouldn't you? I mean, it hauls mobs of people AND towers over even the biggest SUV (I can look down at Suburban passengers' laps)... but it's sort of a neglected vehicle segment - ya know what I mean?
Of course, conversion vans are fairly popular, and (in addition to cargo/work vans) are the mainstay of the FSV market. Perhaps the Big 3 resist gussying up their factory passenger vans because that would eat into the conversion market.
I have a 1990 Dodge Ram Wagon (passenger van) and love it. We need to buy a second vehicle that can carry 7 or 8 people, and will probably get another new full sized van. I don't know which one to get. The problem is this - It is almost impossible to find reviews of FSVs. I read Edmund's reviews, and the few others I could find, but there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus about which passenger van is best - Ford Econoline, Dodge Ram, or Chevy Express/GMC Savana. I've also read this conference, and come to the conclusion that most van owners here don't have a Dodge. The Dodge is the one that I've been least able to find information and opinions about. Does anyone have any advice about or experience with the latest model year (1999) vans (Ford, Chevy/GMC, and Dodge)?