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Subaru Outback VDC

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    deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I was surprised to see that the JD Powers rating for the "02 Outback VDC was not very good (2-3/5) and the Edmund's rating was only 7.2/10. I have an "03 Forester and I love it. We are moving to New Hampshire and I want to get a car for my wife. We are looking at a 2002 Outback VDC with 35,000 miles. It looks like we can buy it for about $19,000 but I'm concerned about the JD Powers rating. Are there any know issues that I should check out on this car before I buy it from a private seller? Thanks for any advice.
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    deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I am looking at a used 2002 H6 3.0 VDC. The seller is asking a little over 21,000. I have two questions. Can someone explain the advantage of VDC (we are moving to the snow belt and I'm not sure which would be the better vehicle, VDC or LLBean)? Are there any disadvantages to the VDC? Thanks for any thoughts.
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    snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    I have an 02 VDC with 30,000 miles on it and am very pleased. I live where the winters are severe and there is much snow. Warped rotors (repaired under warranty) were the most annoying problem. Thats a common complaint in all Outbacks. Enhanced stability control is what you get with the VDC. My wife's former car, a non VDC 00 OB, was perfectly fine in the snow. The VDC vs. the LLBean gives you a better sounding stereo (McIntosh). The VDC has a sound insulation package for a quieter ride (certainly quieter than my wife's Limited). The ride of the VDC is smooth on the highway with a rear-wheel bias. For New Hampshire, you'll need to get rid of the Potenzas as they lose their grip in the snow after the first year. I bought some Nokian WRs and they are very good in the snow and are rated as both a snow and all-season tire. With a model change coming, 19k seems a big steep for a used one. My wife just bought an 04 VDC sedan which should tell you we both enjoy the VDC. If you could swing it, I'd look for an 04 for 27k or so.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Take a thorough test drive. Test the brakes for even stopping, with no vibration in the pedal. The tranny and engine should be smooth.

    I think the H6 is a great powertrain. The tranny can handle 300+hp in modified cars, so it's robust.

    VDC gives you the extra safety of stability control, IMO it's valuable for novice drivers in the snow.

    -juice
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    mfhmfh Member Posts: 37
    Do you think one could get an 04 VDC for 27k? Consumer reports puts wholesale price at 29,1K. Please let me know if you have additional info.

    thanks!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a little optimistic for a new one. I have seen Beans for less than $26k, but the VDC wagons have stayed up around $29k or so.

    Maybe for a sedan, but even that's a little optimistic. If incentives are increased.

    -juice
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    mfhmfh Member Posts: 37
    I think I might spring for the 04 VDC but I dont know about the extra 3-4K for the 05.

    Michael
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    pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    First off, I want to be the first to Welcome you to New Hampshire!!! :) I live on the Seacoast and really love it.

    OK, back on the topic. I replaced the tires on my 01 Outback Limited with the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H's. Great tires in the snow!!!
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    snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Check out Fitzmall. They show a 4 door VDC with an MSRP of $31,545, an invoice of $28,853, and a delivered price of $26,173. Thats less than we just paid, but not by that much. Vanborytel Subaru near Rochester NY has some good prices, too. Check out their website and give them a call for a better price. Some dealers will match these kind of prices if you don't live near these dealers. VDCs are in short supply if you are looking for some colors as dealers don't stock more than one or two. Note to Juice: Even some of us drivers with years of experience driving in the snow like the VDC. We get 170 inches a year where I live. What do you DC people know about real snow? Further note to Juice: Remember, some of us even like sedans.
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    mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    Deepdrop,
    Where did you see rating on JD Powers on the VDC. I see ratings on their website on the Outback for the initial quality survey, but not the VDC alone.

    Remember, the JDP initial quality survey says absolutely nothing about long term reliability. It is a measure of manufacturing quality control and the capability of the dealer make ready process; certainly important to avoid new car aggravations but does not predict durabilty at all.

    I have a 2001 VDC with no problems at 30K miles

    Good Luck,
    Mike
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    deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I realize the JD Powers reflects initial satisfaction, but I can't help but feel that it probably correlates to quality of the vehicle. I found the ratings by going to the 2002 VDC on Edmunds and clicking on reviews and specs, and then clicking on all reviews.
    Anyway, based on my experience with my "03 Forester, I'd buy another Subie in a heartbeat, but I wanted to make sure there are no major issues with the particular model I'm looking at.
    Pathtomax, thanks for the welcome and the tire rec. I"m moving to the Hanover area, but I sure hope to visit the coast often and do some fishing!
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    otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Our 2001 LLBean has 58.5K miles and has been flawless except for the front rotors and pads replaced under warranty at 21K (and still smooth). The front rotors definitely had a manufacturing flaw (which Subaru admitted and explained).

    We were not impressed by the $2900. spread at the time for the VDC and stereo. We drove the VDC in a snow-covered parking lot to feel what it was all about. I've been driving 30 years and never made a move that needed VDC activation. The LLBean also has upgraded insulation - but it doesn't matter much since the mirrors and weatherstripping (on all Outbacks) near the mirrors add wind noise.

    Currently looking to replace a 96 Accord with some type of AWD car/SUV. Want a bigger car than the Outback sedan, but still seem to be waiting to see it when it comes out. 2005 LLBean at the NYC auto show didn't seem any bigger than our LLBean.

    Subaru is taking too long to get their mid-size SUV to market...

    Ralph
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What do we know about snow? Almost nothing, we get 2" here and all the schools close! LOL

    The OB Sedans are more popular in the snow belt, probably because people want the clearance. Subaru of Canada sells a lot of them.

    Ralph: I'm anxiously awaiting that 7 seater also...

    -juice
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Welcome to the Subaru Crew's Weekly Chat!

    Join the Subaru Crew every Thursday evening for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. The chat room opens about 15 minutes before the scheduled start time, so stop on in, even if it's just to say Hello! All things Subaru is the general theme, but anything automotive is fair game too. Come on in and get to know some of your fellow Town Hallies better! See you there...

    Subaru Crew Chat Room

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey, saw a VDC dip into the high $25s at fitz yesterday. Too bad I'm not in the market right now! That's tempting though...

    -juice
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    mfhmfh Member Posts: 37
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, let me see if it's still there...

    My bad, you're right, it says 4DR, that's a sedan.

    -juice
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    mfhmfh Member Posts: 37
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    gmcarlgmcarl Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2002 VDC sedan and am wondering if I can put a small snowplow on the front (or back). Anyone have any experience or comments? I live in Minnesota and have a 1/3 mile long driveway. I have a riding snowblower for drifts but need something to scrape off the 2-8 inch snow falls.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Someone does make one. I think C&D did a review on one for the original Outback several years ago, but FWIW they didn't like it that much. I think they thought the Outback wasn't really heavy enough to push much snow.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My best guess would be to check some Aussie Subaru sites, as they have often come up with some unique Subie-gear.

    Bob
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    ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    For one thing it would void the warranty. But I guess with studed tires you might be able to make it work. Custom fab work you'd need would cost a fortune though. Probably cheaper to buy a beater ford ranger or something with a plow.

    -mike
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    KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    I'd be concerned with the unibody taking an unnecessary beating with a plow pack. Even the REALLY small utes like Wranglers/CJs and the original small Bronco of the 60s-70s were full-frame trucks whose chassis took the load, not the body.

    Around here (north NJ), many of the landscapers who do snow removal in winter have mini-plows on their riding tractors for small parking lots. If you have a 1/3-mile driveway, I'll bet you don't just have a small hand-pushed lawn mower either. A plow for your riding mower may be what you need for the small snowstorms.

    kcram
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    gmcarlgmcarl Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the comments. I did find a fiberglass V-plow (solotec.com--anybody ever used one?) that looked interesting and probably wouldn't be too hard on the frame. I do have a 17 hp JD riding mower that I could put a plow or blower on and that may be my best bet.
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    jimjpsjimjps Member Posts: 146
    Road test of 05 OB:
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Full review is in Subaru Crew - Meet the Members, but I'll summarize for the folks here.

    The H6 was already quiet, now there's even better NVH control. They must have benchmarked Lexus.

    The auto tranny is probably the biggest improvement, the 5 ratios are close and it's not shy about shifting down, even holding a gear.

    The H6 is only slightly peppier, but the tranny is better about choosing the right gear so it feels quicker.

    I was impressed with how the taller suspension soaked up bumps, we even ventured off road, onto a dirt and rock path, never bottomed out once. In fact we hardly slowed down at all.

    I like the current model, and if you do, think of the new one as 15% more of everything - insulation, power, etc. Very impressive.

    The only catch? The tire pressure sensors were not functioning. The light was on in all the cars, but they worked fine any way. That was being sorted out, so H6 production might start later (just my guess).

    Subaru has built a winner.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in the '05 Legacy thread,

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm sure nobody was ignoring you. This is the first time that I ever recall hearing about this problem. This is new to us too.

    Maybe Patti (from SOA) has some answers. Unfortunately, she's a bit under the weather now, so it may take a little more time for her to respond.

    Bob
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    sos03sos03 Member Posts: 6
    My outback has been troublesome since day 1. Currently in shop for 3rd time in past month. 1st for check engine light that was throttle control sensor failure, 2nd was drive belt failure and now 3rd is engine temp drops after initial warm-up and concurrently have intermittent lack of acceleration. Anyone with these issues out there that have been solved (or not?)?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think your experience is typical. Hopefully once they sort this out (they may all be related somehow) then hopefully it'll be problem free.

    The H6s here on Edmunds, for the most part, have been extremely reliable.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    call soa
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    chetm20chetm20 Member Posts: 1
    I've got an 03 H6 with 83,000 miles. I commute a long distance. I've had throttle control sensor problems starting at 10,000. It's been in the shop 13 times. Sometimes the check engine light comes on and sometimes it won't. They've replaces wiring looms from the firewall to the computer, the computer, and the tcs. It will run well for a few thousand miles then it acts up. Idles high, surges from a stop and while driving, and misses. Is anyone else having similar problems?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Doesn't sound familiar, at least among Edmunds members.

    Holy cow, though, your mileage pace is unreal!

    -juice
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    couragecourage Member Posts: 6
    I have my new Subaru Outback H6 for 2 days, but i have a "huge" problem...

    My MEDIUM fuel consume is 30% !!!!

    Is this normal ? I need to buy a petrol station for this car... :mad:
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    IIRC, the mpg display isn't in %, it's in MPG. How are you figuring 30%?

    -Brian
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    couragecourage Member Posts: 6
    what is MPG ?
    I live in Europe...
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    couragecourage Member Posts: 6
    Hmm i found this

    http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/mpg

    My speed indicator is in Km/h not in Miles
    How it's yours ? :blush:
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Oh, didn't know where you were located. In the U.S., the readings are in MPG. Isn't it km/L for everyone else? I can't imagine it saying 30 km/L, that's something like 70mpg US.

    -Brian
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    couragecourage Member Posts: 6
    I've read my tech book :(

    It's l/100Km !!!

    30l/ 100Km its ~ 8MPG
    See here: http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/mpg

    Can you please tell me what are your numbers ?
    I'm disperate.. i did not think i'll buy a Hummer ! :sick:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let it break-in, and take it easy while it does.

    The first tank will be lousy, the 2nd a little better. You'll only work it up to ideal mileage after a few thousand miles (even more in KM).

    My Forester reached its peak efficiency at 15k miles!

    -juice
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    10k miles is the usual breakin for subies. Also those on-dash MPG readings are fuzzy at best. To really know you have to calc it manually.

    -mike
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    inhisgripinhisgrip Member Posts: 6
    I'm looking to install either and wondered if anyone else has put one of these on? What about washing under the deflector? My WRX had the rear spoiler and it was no problem cleaning around it.
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    inhisgripinhisgrip Member Posts: 6
    I'm looking to install a 2" trailer hitch on my 2002 VDC wagon and wondered if anyone else has done so. If so, what manufacturer? Any problems (tail scraping)? Thanks!
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    you'll probably need to buy an adapter. Since the VDC doesn't tow enough to warrant a 2" reciever, they sell adapters to accomodate 2" hitch reciever accessories.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's really not a big deal, I think I have one on my Forester.

    -juice
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Not a 2" ball. What he's talking about is a 2" square receiver section. Generally that's a class III and above that use a 2" receiver to mount such things as bike racks, etc.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gotcha, yeah mine's 1.25".

    -juice
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    inhisgripinhisgrip Member Posts: 6
    You are correct - I plan on using 2" receiver accessories (bike rack). I already have roof racks, but want to utilize a more efficient Yakima Fullswing hitch mount rack. There are local retailers who will install a 2" hitch, but I'm concerned about ground clearance on the back end as well as mounting. Looking underneath the car, it doesn't appear to have much room/places to install the hitch. If I can mount it right up against the rear bumper I won't loose too much clearance as it will drop down about as much as the bottom of the exhaust.
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    fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    The OEM 1.25" unit hugs the underside of the bumper quite nicely, and reduces the rear departure angle by a pretty minimal amount. It attaches at 4 points, with two large bolts into the subframe, and two attachments to the rear transport tiedowns.

    Are your local retailers going to weld up something custom for your use? As Mike made clear, there is probably no market for a mass produced class III hitch for this application. I guess they could take an off the shelf unit (OEM, Hidden Hitch, etc.), and weld in a 2" box where the original smaller unit was. Anyway, challenge them to show you what they are planning to do, and how.

    Here is my concern. You understand the cars limits, and that this constitutes some kind of unnatural act. :) Someday you sell the car, and some nitwit hooks up their 5000lb boat, and either the hitch breaks apart, or it overstresses the mechanicals of the car. I know, not really your problem.... But I would suggest that you remove it before parting ways down the road.

    Steve
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