Pontiac Grand Am

rpm9 · March 2001

No, I am not bitter. Actually, I'm relieved that I got rid of my GA. Deep down inside, I felt that the financial investment that I made in the Pontiac wasn't worth it. This is why I chose to voluntarily repossess the vehicle rather than trying to do everything possible to keep it. I especially didn't care for the steering of the GA. It's way too light and the car just doesn't give you that solid feel you get from a Japanese car. My 94 Mazda 626/V6 has a very firm ride and feels tight and solid; more so than the GA even though the Mazda has 99K miles. If you don't believe me, I suggest you go test drive one and you'll see for yourself. Take in mind that I'm not bashing the Pontiac Grand Am. I'm just simply saying that for the money, I would rather drive a $6K 626 than a $15K GA. I believe that the 626 is a better value.

theanimalusa · March 2001

Dear sonic222,
You did well diagnosing and repairing your mother-in-law's quad-4. You may never get the car to run *perfectly*; she should be grateful she has someone to turn to, that has enough common sense to find an obvious, but often over-looked problem. A quad-4 with some advanced mileage on it will have some normal wear that can cause a misfire. A couple of common things to try would be replacing the O2 sensor; around 60K to 70K is a pretty good life expectency. The platinum compound coating wears over time and use, causing the fuel-air mixture to go awry. You can also try cleaning the fuel injectors with a quality cleaner like Redline-SI; most other cleaners are not very effective in my experience. Also use a fuel-injection grade throttle body spray cleaner to clean in and around the throttle plate.
If you are feeling adventuresome, you can also search for vacuum leaks (have fun!). Particularly check the rubber intake ducting going to the throttle body, it may develop cracks over time.
Good luck!
- Dave -

bmark · March 2001

1st, to RPM no matter what you say, I have driven an 85, a 92, and a 94 626 and they suck. Secondly, yeah its really smart to let a car get repossed ( pardon my spelling), you ever think of selling it?
2nd, to whoever asked about how it drives in the snow, the car handles great. I know it sounds like a commercial, but I was a stop light during a snowstorm and there was an Accord, and a Camry next to My 2000 Gt, and when the traction control kicked in I blew them away.
3rd I think the cladding on the GT is better looking than on the se, but I agree with everyone, I have no door dings, and my 96 Sunfire GT that I traded in had a ton of them.
Finally, I feel bad for anyone who has had a lot of problems, I have had my 2000 GT since Oct 99, and have 27,000 miles on it, and the only problem I had was with the rotors. The Grand Am is a great car, and better than anything else in its class.

whacko · March 2001

I can't wait for you to post your opinion of your 2000 GA/GT when your car hits 50K miles. I'm sure you'll have a very different story by then. Furthermore, don't forget to share with us the resale value of your car when it hits that mark.

lrymal · March 2001

Whacko sez: "I can't wait for you to post your opinion of your 2000 GA/GT when your car hits 50K miles."

Still tight, rattle free, drives straight, everything works. No change from when it was new. No expected failures, such as waterpump, alternator, hoses, power steering pump, or starter.

Depreciation and resale value? HA! What American car doesn't do a nose drive on $$$ value as soon as it leaves the dealer's parking lot.

I was amazed that at the local dealer, a fully decked out 1999 Park Avenue was going for $18,000. That's almost 50% depreciation.

midlifecrisis · March 2001

If you want depreciation, buy a Neon or small Kia or Hyundai. Almost all American cars drop value very quickly. And as lyrmal said, the big cars are the worst. I almost bought a 3-year old Lincoln a few years ago. It's resale cost was less than half of it's MSRP and it only had 32,000 miles on it!

I'm glad to hear that someone has 51K on their car and it's still running strong. There seems to be a lot of pessimism on this forum recently. My 1999 GT is approaching 26K miles and has had no performance part failures except for the rotors. I had a couple of minor cosmetic things fixed under warranty.

Even if I could afford or wanted to buy a new car, I can't think of anything else other than the Grand Am that would fit all my requirements for the price I paid. So I'll be sticking with it for some time to come.

Anybody else out there care to post the mileage on their Grand Am? I'd be interested to see who's got the highest so far.

rpm9 · March 2001

There is always a strong influence of pessimism with a group of people who share a common bond involving a negative subject matter. Such is the case with hate groups, prison populations, and people who own Korean and American made cars.

tonychrys · March 2001

I would love to hate my '99 GA SE2 sedan (once you own a Lexus you'll understand) but you know what? I can't. I drive over 700, hard (NYC area roads) miles a week and at 20k miles it is still tight and rattle free. Never had any problems excpet the brakes which I'm trying to get the dealer to replace under warranty. No leaks, squeaks, rattles, etc.

For the money, it's a good value, and one of GM's best sellers. Now if GM could just do something about the cheap looking interior...

Sounds like Whacko has sour grapes, maybe he got a lemon? Hey, it happens with ANY brand of car.

whacko · March 2001

I can't wait for your post when your car hits the 100K mark. I'm sure you'll have a very different story by then. The true benchmark of a well-built car is how long it lasts after 100K miles and how much money is invested in keeping the car running right. I'm sure you are well aware that Pontiac is not known for manufacturing cars that have a good track record in longevity. Sure there may be some that slip through the cracks, but overall, you don't hear people say "go out and buy a Pontiac if you want a good reliable car that will last you a long time". This statement belongs to the Japanese carmakers and they have proven it. Case closed.

nerss · March 2001

I am really glad to see that Whacko has nothing better to do with his/her time than log on to a chat room and crap all over a car that he disliked, but we love or like. If you don't have anything helpful to say then just stay the heck out of this chat room so that we can have a meaningful discussion. I don't login to the Ford chat room and rant about how much a Ranger sucks because the one I had was problematic. I made my decision to not buy a Ford and I keep my opinions to myself. I think that you should follow that same philosophy yourself.

jkidd2 · March 2001

I came to the conclusion along time ago to ignore anything posted by whacko. He/she apparently just goes around from subject to subject trying to get folks p.o.'d. Ignore the comments...

midlifecrisis · March 2001

How can I be worried about 100,000 miles now? That's over 4 years from now! I can only live in the present, and right now I'm concentrating on the next 25K or so. For a new model design, there's no way to predict how it will hold up at 100K miles, and certainly there's nothing to indicate that it will magically self destruct at higher mileage.

You detractors can have your little 'perfect' bland Accords and Camrys, and you can deal with the jerks at those dealerships when trying to buy and service your car. I've got my dream car and a great local American Pontiac dealership as well. You can't ruin my GA ownership, no matter how hard you try with your news of impending doom and gloom.

whacko · March 2001

One of the greatest things about this country is that we have freedom of speech and freedom of expressing ourselves, including our opinions. Therefore, I'm just exercising my right as an American to express my opinions. God Bless America! (However, I apologize if I've offended anybody or have hurt anyone's feelings. Just remember to keep in mind that the truth hurts sometimes and that certain facts about cars aren't always favorable.)

tonychrys · March 2001

"Just remember to keep in mind that the truth hurts sometimes..."

That works both way my friend, look in the mirror. And there is always the "truth" and then one's version of the truth. Yes, god bless America!

pat · March 2001

Folks, we are talking about the Grand Am here, NOT each other. Relevant and respectful opinions in accordance with the Terms of Use (see link on left sidebar) are welcome - off-topic posts are subject to removal.

Let's get back on the subject.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

melvinj2 · March 2001

well it turn out that the 1988 grand am that my mother gave me with 81,000 needs the timing gear replaced. I'm doing most the work myself so far it has only cost me about 75.00 for parts. She said that she was doing only about 20 to 25 mph when the car shut down. hopefully it didn't mess up anything when it did. i won't know until I put it back together and start her up. It has the 2.5l engine so it has the gear to gear timimg.Do you think at that rate of speed anything could have gotten messed up. Also I want to change the tire size on it. It currently has 195 70 14 on it I want to change it to 215 60 14. would this be feasible. I think it would look better with the factory alloy wheels that it has on it. I suggestion concerning the engine damage or tire size. Inquiring minds would like to know.

tonychrys · March 2001

I am definitely no expert, but from personal experience I've never seen an engine NOT get damaged when the timing belt/chain/gear goes bad. It's one of those things you absolutley have to replace before it's time is up or suffer the consequences.

I wish you luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

yurakm · March 2001

I have a great Chevrolet dealer, and awful Buick one. The Buick employee are arrogant, know better than me what I need, and are wasting tons of my time. Even while Buick is considered to be an upscale make comparing with Chevy.

By the way, the dealership is selling not only Buick cars, but also Pontiac ones, and GMC trucks. Do not believe that owners of Pontiac get better service.

Even more, they are selling BMW and MB. Until recently they did this from the same location. Last year moved the MB / BMW operation to another lot from Buick, about 3-5 miles away, and added Pontiac. Added GMC this year. Probably, the rich owners of the German cars have to stand the same arrogance and sub-Yugo service.

My friends are telling the same: service practically does not depend on the car make. This is local thing, dealership-specific.

The car manufacturer can insist on service standards, like loaner car, or car wash with every service. But the dealer and his employee can perform it different ways. Including the humiliating ways.

Probably, the same is true with Toyota or Honda dealerships: some are very good, few are very bad, and the majority are about average. After all, the dealers and employees are American, the same as with Big Three dealerships. Many of them are even selling several makes of cars, both American and Japanese.

BTW, one dealer about 15 miles from my town is selling Cadillac, Olds - and Kia. Strange combination... Did not saw the operation, though: read in a local newspaper.

lrymal · March 2001

> For the money, it's a good value, and one of GM's best
> sellers. Now if GM could just do something about the cheap
> looking interior...

Well, compared to other cars, I think the GrandAm is holding its own here. I was shocked at how cheesey the interior is for nearly all the high end GM vehicles. I think our GrandAm really does well.

Example: I had to rent a Buick Century recently, a very undrated car. Rides very nice and corners exceptionally. Roomy inside and the seats are great.

But, your knee can flex the arm rest outwards. The dash design reminds me of a huge curved aircraft carrier. Well, anyway. To each his own on this one. But, seriously, go to any GM dealer and give a good look-over of the other interiors.

We really do ok. Actually, I think once you get past the shine and the look over, nearly all car interiors are getting sad. Even the typically polish fit and finish of the Japanese interiors are not as I recall them being several years ago.

Try this out: go to any GM dealer and look for common design features that our cheaper-in-cost GrandAm has with its bigger brothers. Look for the door sill, the adjustable steering wheel. Even the construction methods used for the power window buttons. Our way-cool GrandAm shares the same construction techniques. And I think it is even tighter interior-wise than the big boys.

lrymal · March 2001

And, Whacko sez:

> Sure there may be some that slip through the cracks, but
> overall, you don't hear people say "go out and buy a Pontiac
> if you want a good reliable car that will last you a long
> time". This statement belongs to the Japanese carmakers and
> they have proven it. Case closed.

Not sure about the case closed part, but I agree with bits and pieces of this message. I don't think one can label Pontiac as the sole target on this.

Newer Hondas with their high-reving 8,000 rpm motors are not particularly known for their longetivity, for example. Neither are 200,000 dollars dragsters which have a motor life span of about three hours.

As a whole, I disagree with the 100k limitation for nearly any car built today. I don't think you'll see, for the most part, any car having a catastrophic failure at 100k. Thirty years ago would have been another story, though. I recall valve jobs needing to be done at 40k and a complete overhaul at 80k. This sort of thing really may not occur today until 200k.

Any Pontiac, or any car, should go over 100k as long as the maintenance is done, the belts and hoses replaced at about 100k, perhaps the serpentine belt at 60 to 80k, transmission fluid/filter changed at 50 to 80k.

One should be aware that from about 80k onwards, on any car, the waterpump, the starter, power steering pump, rack/pinion piston stuff, alternator, and struts are at least in middle age.

I haven't seen as a trend, and "some may slip through the cracks", that today's Pontiacs or any car for that matter, can't experience a long life, if the maintenance is done. Again, I worry a bit about the Honda high-rev motors, though.

Finally, we have a 1985 Oldsmobile Calais with the problematic Quad 4. We never had a problem with that motor and the car still runs great, albeit with a replaced alternator and water pump. New struts. Same tranny, same motor, same everything. 240 thousand miles.

Quality-wise, that old feller cannot come close, even when new, to my GrandAm.

theanimalusa · March 2001

Your engine should be fine after replacing the timing gears. Replacing the set is recommended for longevity, but more work. There are few modern engines designed without sufficient valve-piston clearance to survive a cam timing failure, with glaring exceptions, of course

.

Just be sure to set the cam timing properly, following a service manual. The timing is critical to performance. Also verify and adjust the ignition timing after you're finished, if necessary.

It's a good idea to at least change the oil, preferably also remove the oil pan, to remove any debris from the failed gears. You certainly don't want to wipe out a bearing or cylinder wall after all that work!

You're increased tire size is a correct aspect ratio replacement and should work fine; the overall diameter should be within specs. It will certainly improve the road feel and handling quite a bit. Have fun!

xmann · March 2001

But the truth is my company has had 14 Grand Ams over the past 5 years. They all get very high milage use. We are a service company so there are many different drivers and lots of very tough stop and go city driving. Anyone familiar with driving around So Cal during the week will tell you its tough on a car. Overall the Grand Ams have out performed all the Japanese counterparts in terms of durability, reliability. This comes straight from simply evaluating the accounting records which reflect any and all servicing and repairs. The average cost of operation for the Grand Ams is above average and as good or better then the Japanese equivalents. All vehicles average 25K - 30K miles per year in usage. The records show that within the first 100K miles, there have been 2 transmission repairs under warranty one at 87K and the other at 94K. The only other major repairs other then normal replacement of wear items have been 1 starter, 3 fuel pumps, 4 for glass/seal repair (one or two may be road hazard damage but not sure), 1 alternator, 1 timing belt/chain.

All Grand Am's were V6 equiped SE models with automatic transmissions.

All were sold or continue in service with 155K miles being the average at sale or currently in service. Virtually no major repairs recorded after 100K on all vehicles. Most common is brake system overhaul and 2 motor mounts (may have been due to driver abuse).

The Japanese cars are a mixture of Accords, Maximas, and Camry's. Virtually all of them record some major repair during the first 100K miles of service. The most common are timing belt replacement (a few hundred dollars), blown head gaskets, transmission, and ignition computer failures. Of the 53 Japanese cars used over the last 5 years only 7 went 100K miles without a major repair.

The best vehicle in terms of our repair records are the Jeep Grand Cherokees (V6 & V8). All 7 or 8 have exceeded 100K miles of service without any major repairs.

This is what our experience has been. We now have a company policy of no longer using Japanese vehicles because they simply do not hold up and therefore are not economically viable for our uses. This is not to say that given light personal use these cars wouldn't provide good service. Only that under heavy usage the American cars fare better.

whacko · March 2001

Actually, I do like it! I had no idea that the Pontiac Grand Am could have such a stellar performance record. I guess the problem is that it's going to take awhile for American cars to rebuild trust and admiration from the general public. Can you blame them? Afterall, the Big Three is still haunted by its past by building cars like the Gremlin, Vega, Pinto, Volare, and the like. I think I'll go out and test drive the new Grand Am. Maybe I might just be impressed? Heck, maybe I might just go out and buy one!

tonychrys · March 2001

yurakm · March 2001

Thank you so much for the very useful information!

Though, one remark concerning timing belt replacement.

You named it as the most common "major repair" of the Japanese cars in your company fleet. Though, most Japanese engines (and some not Japanese) have timing belt instead of chain. The belt must be replaced at regular intervals, usually at 60k miles. This is normal maintenance, not an unexpected break-down and repair.

Of course, the belt replacement is expensive, but it must be expected and forecasted from the very beginning. And provided for in budget and planning of car use - either family one, or company.

xmann · March 2001

Just a point of clarification. I work in our marketing dept. the classification of major repair is used by our accounting dept in their database. I used it because their parameter for major repair costs are anything exceeding $200 parts and labor and/or takes the vehicle out of service for 24 hrs. It is used to separate the services from things like tires, brakes, fluid changes etc. Perhaps that is a "normal" replacement item in Japanese cars, but since it is not "normal" across the board for all vehicles they classify it as an added expense. This allows our accounting dept to more clearly track and compare vehicle operational costs. Which is then used by our acquisition people in determining what products are most suitable for our purposes. We have a company of 125 employees and a fleet of 15 -25 vehicles at any given time. Most are cars but we do have SUV's and PU's. Forcasted or not replacement costs for something like a timing belt is still factored into the overall cost of operation of the vehicle only it would be placed in another part of the database that is all. I was simply trying to show a comparison of overall costs during the first 100K miles of operations of our vehicles. Going back over the database and factoring out the timing belts the Japanese cars were still no better then their American counterparts in regards to operational costs and repairs.

lrymal · March 2001

Am amazed, Whacko, that your listing of the Gremlin, Vega, Pinto, Volare did not include the Ford Pinto. And why in the world did you choose vehicles of 2 1/2 decades ago in your argument to slam American car manufacturers? .... anyway

Check out this URL, y'all. Lots of waaay cool mods that you can do to your 1999+ SE and GT GrandAms.

http://www.grandamgt.com/

lrymal · March 2001

Be still, fluttering heart...:

http://www.partsforyourcar.com

yurakm · March 2001

Thank you!

whacko · March 2001

I did include the Ford Pinto, except I just wrote it as Pinto without the Ford moniker. And I used cars from 2.5 decades ago just to use as an example of some of the laughable cars that American manufacturers have made in the past. It will probably take a lot more time before we ever forgive and forget American manufacturers for building those kinds of cars.

tonychrys · March 2001

Great links.

midlifecrisis · March 2001

When I mentioned that I have a good American Pontiac dealership local to me, I in no way suggested that all Pontiac dealers, or all American dealers are good. I've experienced many dreadful dealership experiences over the past ten years. I do not think any one manufacturer has better dealerships than others. Consumer Reports, however, lists dealer ratings from consumer surveys. Manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda are always at the bottom of the list for quality of dealership service and buying experience. I have no personal experience, however, to confirm or deny this.

All I meant to say was that I have been blessed with a good automobile and a good dealership the past year and a half. I will continue to patronize this dealership until the experience goes sour, which I hope never happens.

lrymal · March 2001

Whacko sez: "I did include the Ford Pinto, except I just wrote it as Pinto without the Ford moniker. And I used cars from 2.5 decades ago just to use as an example of some of the laughable cars that American manufacturers have made in the past."

I didn't catch that. Just flew through the message in my quotes. Let's get a bit more recent. There was a Honda Civic series in the mid 80s that had recalls due to blown headgaskets (symptom included a white water vapor cloud during startup) and front fenders that rusted by a seam next to the firewall. The robot didn't install a felt liner which would keep salt and junk from rubbing the firewall part where it touched the fender. Caused terrible squeaks which drove dealers nuts til the bulletin came out. And then they found rust holes at that "seam" which resulted in another bulletin.

And, then, there was the YUGO. Oh yes, the lovely YUGO. Actually, I thought it was a pretty good deal for the price.

Admittedly, the Japanese did slap the Americans awake to quality issues, and I think the mid-80s saw a massive turn around on American product. My only real complaint about ALL cars in general is that they appear that they came from the same cookie mold.

And, THAT is WHY I like Pontiac. Nothing compares close to the style of a Pontiac, although the Sunfire appeared to be cut from the Neon mold somewhat. Love it or leave it for another brand. "We are" Pontiac. grinnn

psibayan · March 2001

On 2/24/01 we bought a Grand Prix SE with the 3.1 V6 engine from a Pontiac dealership in Norco, Ca. Three days later with 190 miles the engine made some unusual sounds so we drove it to the Pontiac dealership and we were told a TSB just came out in Jan 2001 to replace the 1 thur 4 pistons. The service mgr called a week later to advise that a long block was ordered and his shop would be replacing the engine as the honing could not fix the problem. We contacted the PM CARES customer service line and our dealership to requeat another Grand Prix. The reps blew us off, stonewalled us from talking to anyone above them at Pontiac Motors and basically said they would fix the car and thats it... good bye and go away!!! The dealership GM said he spoke to the regional Pontiac office and was told they would fix the car and nothing more. The GM offered to sell us an extended warranty. We have no confidence in this car, the 3.1 engine and sorry to say Pontiac as a business. Having read this forum I was convinced many of you were very happy with your Pontiac vehicles. I was hoping to be one of you. This was my first Pontiac and my last as refuse to pay for this lemon. I have asked Phillips Pontiac Mazda dealership to cancel the deal and return our trade and money. Would anyone else do anything different? Any ideas how to resolve this with Pontiac and or the dealership? I'll keep you posted.

rpm9 · March 2001

It seems that you are much too blissful about driving a Pontiac Grand Am. C'mon, it's just a Grand Am. Furthermore, if you read other forums about what most people think about the GA's new styling, you'll realize that most think that even though it's "different" looking, it is much too overdone and much too loud and busy looking. As a matter of fact, when I first bought my 00 Grand Am coupe, most of my family members and friends laughed at me. It even got to the point where I was actually trying to convince myself that I really liked my car. Then I finally realized that I was lying to myself the whole time. Because of this realization, I decided not to fight hard in keeping my GA when I had an opportunity to refinance it at a lower payment that I could afford. And of course I had the option to sell it, but due to the GA's extremely low resale value, I owed much more than what I could sell the car for.

Of course there are a lot of people who love their GA. And for some, it really is the perfect car for them. But as for me, the negative comments that I received from others coupled with my own personal feelings about the GA, caused me to finally get rid of the car any way I could, even though it meant sacrificing my credit by voluntary repossession.

There are times in our lives where we make mistakes. Buying the Grand Am was one of them for me.

xmann · March 2001

Sorry to hear your troubles. I had a similar problem with a Toyota Land Cruiser and this is what the 3 year ordeal taught me. I'm not offering advice legal or otherwise only relating what happened to me and what I learned.

In Calif there is no cooling off period. Once you sign the purchase agreement you are locked in on the sale. Calif lemon law says basically that the dealer and manufacturer have to make a good faith attempt to resolve the problem. They fulfilled that by offering you a new engine. GM covered themselves by offering you an extended warranty. You can try to fight them if you want but from what you have said you won't have an easy time of it. Meanwhile if you file a lawsuit you they may be off the hook for fixing it at all. Calif law is peculiar that way so make sure you are not waiving rights to remedy by making too big of an issue of this. My suggestion is just let them exchange the engine and see if GM will sell you the extended warranty at a discount for your troubles, which I know they can do. Then you can sell the car or keep it. Believe me it will be less painful and much faster so you can get on with your life.

This does not excuse the treatment you received. All cars have problems its how the dealer / manufacturer deals with it. Thats why my personal vehicle is a new Chrysler Sebring and I deal with only a 5 star rated dealership. I had some issues with a Dakota once and though the problems were a headache the dealership bent over backwards to be helpful and accommodating.

Your post points out a very important aspect to us all. We need to research our dealers as much as we research our cars. I genuinely feel for you because I have been there. I hope it works out for you okay.

amlover2 · March 2001

I have a problem with the front driver's side seat in my 1999 Grand Am E. A couple of days ago passengers in my back seat noticed that there was a spring broken on the back of the seat and it was starting to protrude through the upholstery. I am from Canada and only have 50,000kms on the car, with a 60,000km warranty. My question is should this be covered under the warranty or not. If not, is there anybody who has had the same problems and what are some fixes for this problem. I would appreciate any quick responses.

Thanks,

Am lover

jkidd2 · March 2001

Seems to me those in this group that love their Grand Am's are driving GT's. They are obviously people more into the "sporty-ness" of their GA's than those of us driving the standard SE. But, I still love my SE.

But, not for the styling, but for its overall "goodness". I don't think its ugly and frankly I have never had ANYONE tell me that they think its "ugly", (except my wife) just the opposite...on more than one occasion I have had complete strangers come up to tell me they like it. Just two nights ago a woman approached me in the parking lot of our grocery store to tell me that she thought it was an attractive car and she loved the color. Keep in mind...I'm driving a lowly SE.

Funny thing about my wife...she complains that the car is "ugly", yet anytime she needs to go somewhere, she grabs the keys to the GA and takes it instead of our Prelude or new Nissan CrewCab.

Anyway...I bought this car strictly as an "appliance" vehicle and it is a good appliance. I think most folks who buy a value priced automobile are looking just for that.."value". Anyone complaining that their 17k vehicle doesn't have "Lexus-like" quality is expecting way too much out of the manufactuerer...just my opinion.

I have 32k on mine @ the moment, sure its got a few rattles and I have complained loudly about the plastic wheel covers in past postings, but I drive the GA hard and it just keeps coming back for more. This was the first American car I have owned since I was a teenager and yes, it does lack the quality of my other cars....but it cost thousands of dollars less than either of them. I just don't have the mind-set that I expect it to be as "good". But, its been a great work car and my family uses it more than our other two vehicles combined, its just a great "appliance".

Sorry to ramble....just felt like adding my two cents...not that its worth much on the issue of the GA and its detractors.

Good day to all.

midlifecrisis · March 2001

I would like to know what the attraction is to this forum for people who hate Pontiacs. There seems to be a lot of you out there that never owned a Pontiac or have owned one but got rid of the vehicle for one reason or another. I realize this is a free country, but I thought the purpose of this message board was for Grand Am owners to share information, bad or good. Instead, every other post is someone who is not an owner trying to bash Pontiac and the Grand Am. This is of absolutely no use to me or any other owner. As an example, I may be looking for some useful information on a particular recall, but I've got to sort through 20 Pontiac bashing posts to find something useful.

Why don't you non-owners start your own thread and then you can open fire at will with your negative posts.

tonychrys · March 2001

Why do they post here? Because some folks like to hear themselves talk. Think about it.

Everytime I think of selling the GA (it's 2 years old now, just bored) I say nope, it was a "value" purchase and a smart one. We'll see what happens when it reaches 50K miles, but for now, it's great. Now if I can just get that TSB for the rotor replacements...

midlifecrisis · March 2001

Your car is 2 years old and you're bored of it? You're starting to sound like me! I only kept my last car for 11 months and then I traded it in due to many problems (it was used). My GA is 17 months old and I've been looking around at various new cars. But I can't find anything I would want more than the GA right now. Even if I did, I'm sure not going to default on a loan to get rid of it!

On the other hand, we just paid off my wife's van and it is almost 4 years old. If I drove the van all the time I'd have to buy a new one by now!

jdexter23 · March 2001

I have had my 2000 GA SE V6 for 6 weeks now (2600 miles) and am still very happy with it. Just about to roll over to 19K miles and no problems except for some real minor rattles on rough roads and bumps. I average about 26 miles per gallon with about 90% highway driving.
I bought this car for its practicality. Since I bought it used, it was fairly inexpensive ($13500), it drives well in the snow, holds 4 adults, decent size trunk, lots of goodies inside, and hopefully i can tow sailboat trailers with it.
So my question to you all is if anyone has installed a tow hitch on their 99-01 GA and how well does it tow? My sailboat is small, but I may want to upgrade boats in the future.

midlifecrisis · March 2001

I didn't think the Grand Am was rated to pull anything. If it is, it's probably 1000 pounds or less. Although it's got a beefy 170 HP, the components are not built to handle the stress of towing. And it certainly does not have a full frame like a truck or SUV.

rpm9 · March 2001

I'll never forget the day I told my fiance that I was going to surprise us with a brand new car. She asked what I was going to buy and I told her just wait and see. Even though she had already told me on several occasions that she did not like American cars, I wanted to prove her wrong that American cars were just as good as foreign cars, so I went out against her wishes and bought the new Pontiac Grand Am V6 coupe.

The day I took it home and surprised her with it, she literally almost wept due to being so upset. Of course I defended my choice and said wait until you drive it.

After we took it out for her first spin, she said she wasn't impressed and then told me that she thought the design was obnoxious and would be too embarrassed to be seen in it.

To make a long story short, it caused some friction in our relationship and I promised her that from now on I would always include her in the buying selection and decision of our cars.

What made things worse for me was when her friends and relatives questioned why I bought a Pontiac Grand Am when there were so many other better cars to choose from within the same price range.

The absolute worst part about this whole experience was when I realized for myself that I really didn't like the GA either and that the only way out was voluntary repossession.

It's amazing what we will do as humans when we desperately want to get out of a bad situation.

jdexter23 · March 2001

No, my boat is way below 1000 pounds. Maybe 400 with the trailer included. My uncle has an 89 GA 4 cylinder and he tows small fishing boats with no problem. I was just curious if anone had tried it with the newer GA.

RPM9, a word of advise, always include your significant other in big money decisions. Buying a new car for the two of you without her involvement is just asking for trouble. It seems that everyone you know thinks that the GA is ugly and embarrasing, and it seems that you have let their comments change your feelings about it too. You must have obviously liked it enough in the first place to buy it. Stick to your guns and don't let others change your mind. If you like it, then thats all that should matter.

midlifecrisis · March 2001

My wife always says that I should pick out the vehicle because she despises salesmen and signing contracts. But I always include her input anyway when making a decision. I can't imagine spending $100 without running it by her, let alone $20,000. And I would want her to do the same. Not so much to get each other's approval, but to get a second opinion and have greater assurance that we're doing the right thing.

Now my wife drives a Ford Windstar, and I drive the Grand Am to work every day. She does not enjoy driving the Grand Am. She says it is so hard to get in and out of. Compared to a mini-van, she's right. But that in no way diminishes how much I enjoy the car! Even if my whole family told me they thought it was ugly, I'd still like my Grand Am.

I think too many people care too much about what other people think these days. That's why mini-vans have this stigma and everyone thinks they need to go out and get a 4WD SUV to look cool. It makes me laugh.

melvinj2 · March 2001

Thanks for the comments Theanimalusa. You are saying pretty much what the dealer technician said judging at the rate of speed that mother was driving. We should have everything back together this week. I'm looking forward to feeling the handling with the 215 60 14 on it.

gpintado · March 2001

I'm lucky my wife likes the look of the GrandAm GT1. Really, I cannot find another car with so many extras and power for that price($23,000), and that's MSRP. Just imagine when I haggle the price down. As you may have noticed I don't have one yet, but everytime I see one I just can't wait. It will have to be 4dr.Black exterior, gray leather interior, sun roof and Chrome Tech 16" wheels; in other words a GT1.

jkidd2 · March 2001

Lindsey...kind of tough on the guy? I am seeing a trend by some of the GA owners (it reminds me of SUV owners),they don't want to hear any critisism whatsoever on the subject of the GA. I don't agree with most of the critical comments folks make about the GA, I love mine...but....

rpm9, I tend to agree with jdexter that it sounds like you let others negatively influence you.

You have made a HUGE mistake by turning in that car. Your girlfriend and family should have stopped you, if you couldn't stop yourself. Your credit is going to be ruined for years to come. That decision will make a huge impact on your life for a very long time. It would have been better in the long term to have sold it and eaten your loss.

Best to you both.

lrymal · March 2001

Ok, y'all. While you all are bashing each other. ;>)

Since my '99 Grand Am is happily racking up the miles I am wondering something. I constantly see advertisements in the car magazine from Bosche about replacing the oxygen sensor during "every tuneup".

Can anyone shed some information on this beastie? Is it really necessary? WHEN should it be done? Thanks!

Pontiac Grand Am

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