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valhs- don't you see, that to some people, ALL those things are just "normal" because no car is perfect. To some people, running to the dealer all the time is no big deal. I guess they never had a more reliable car before or they had one that was WORSE then what they have now and think they died and went to heaven.
fastdriver
Some further thoughts: let's help each other out - when you find a lousy dealer, speak up, we want to hear about them. Give us the names of those you spoke with too. If Joe Blow, the Service Manager lied to you, tell us.
But also, if you have a great dealership you know about, tell us that too. I want to know who the best dealership (read service departments) are so I can give them my business and get my car taken care of properly.
Whether it's good or bad service let's NAME NAMES!
Take Care All
Years ago when chrome wire wheels were reintroduced on mid-'60's autos, they leaked where the spokes were welded into the steel rims. The solution at that time was a rubber-like liner which was placed on the inside of the wheel.
Perhaps such liners are still available and might save the cost of new chrome wheels?
Or maybe there are still inner tubes available?
;^)))
Per Edmund's 2000 Acura $22147.00 LHS $17227.00.
Only 5 grand difference not the 10 grand your implying. can't compare retail on one car to trade in on another.
Yes your point is still valid, but I drive my cars till there worthless so it doesn't matter much to me. Also the pleasure I get every time I drive it is well worth the price of both the few repairs needed and loss of trade in.
But that's why there are so many makes out there. If you like the Acura better that's what you should be driving and I will stick with Mopar like I have for the last 30 years and yes some of them had real poor quality and trade value, but the were always the best looking rides on the road.
OTTOWRKR -- "KEEP BUILDING THE BEST LOOKING CARS IN THE WORLD"
(or get rid of the damn thing if I could only get more than 1/3 of what it was worth a couple of years ago...)
The names of my dealers are on my webpage if you click on my name above.
valhs-
See what I mean? ;-)))))))))
fastdriver
But, and I do say, but, there are both manufacturers and models that have much less "common" issues than others, are more "reliable", have happier owners, and have better dealers. A car's looks do mean a lot to some people (myself intended), but I'd take boring vanilla, impeccably built, and great service any day over "good looking" crap. Enough said!
Oh, and close to your Tahoe, we traded the M for an Avalanche! Love it, no problems, and exceedingly more refined on the road, not to mention butt loads more power! The "M" guys call it a plastic lego box, yet our vibrating, rattle-box 300M was more befitting of being constructed of legos.
Otto- No offense, and I really do think you have a great job, but there's a reason why certain car's get higher ratings than the LH's. I see it as "quality". Surely, the cars you build are no scrappy, tin cans, yet put an Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. next to a 300M and examine the difference. The M has much larger panel gaps that are often slightly crooked. The M has a less finely contructed interior also with bigger gaps and cheaper materials. I won't say anymore, but basically, "quality" is the word.
Oh, that, and once again, come on with the power! 8.0 secs, for the "high performance" sport model?! A G35 is lightening, and neck-snapping quick. The TL-S is almost as blistering. Heck, even our Avalanche can blow an M away from a stop any day with the Vette-based V8--we'd know!
Oh, what a life it is, not having weekly aggravation visits for rattles, broken parts, malfunctioning electronics, etc., etc.!
Be careful using "perceived quality". You just might get e-mail from someone! LOL.........
18,900 miles, 18 months, running like a charm!! Time will tell!!
fastdriver
A 2003 Concorde Limited (LHS) with moonroof has an MSRP of $29,000. At $500 over invoice, a typical buyer will pay about $27,500. Now add the $1500 rebate on 2003's, and you have a final price of $26,000!
Since JD Power rates the 2000 and 2001 LHS as above average, I think it is safe to say it is a good bet.
Certainly the LHS's shrinking weather stripping and faulty speed sensors are no worse than the TL's peeling bumpers and faulty transmissions. And by all accounts, dealer satisfaction is a wash (both poor).
At $29,000, the LTD compares very favourably to the TL-S. At $26,000, it is an absolute no brainer!
http://www.accu-pressure.com/
Beach15 - I agree with you on the Chevy, what a surprise. Excellent ride (for its size), excellent fit and finish, yes the dash could use a little less plastic. And finally excellent value and resale. I don't think you'll find yourself $20,000 down 2 years later.
Fastdriver - Amen brother!
And finally fedlawman - Do not get me started on the Concorde vs. LHS debate. My opinions are well known on this board regarding this topic. Imagine if you will a car maker suckering in unsuspecting customers with what we are told is their premier luxury sedan. All the state of the art equipment and luxury options all for just $32,000. But wait, 2 years later said car maker rebadges the LHS as the lowly Concorde and lowers the retail. So now we LHS owners have the satifaction of having paid $32,000 for a $26,000 car. Our days of driving distinction, of going weeks with seeing maybe one or two other LHS's on the road are gone, a distant memory. Now we pull up to the intersection of our local cities only to see the lowly Concorde, a mirror image or our 99-01 LHS's and all the while muttering under our collective breath "Yeah, but I paid $6,000 more than you!"
Would Cadillac rebadge the Seville as a Pontiac Bonneville? Would Lincoln do the same with the LS making it a Taurus? Of course not. It would alienate EVERY customer who had shelled out the cash for a true Seville, a true LS or a true LHS. I want a letter of apology and my $6,000!
Chrysler, can ya hear me?!
Yeap, a pretty powerful BAD one! But really, the only reason for it is that the car has a large internet following, and it's simply curiousity and help for other, shall I say, current but "dis-satisfied" owners.
When I'm done, I'm REALLY done too. It's just that this happens to be such a source of interest and aggravation at the same time....
"The 300M/LHS must have some powerful attraction....even after it is traded!"
You bet! It's an experience that I will NEVER forget! I just want to make sure that no one else goes through the same crap that I did for 33 months. Better to be forewarned than fall for "5-STAR" dealers, drive=love, 7/70,000 etc. Besides, we're not talking about 20 year old cars here! We're talking about Chrysler's "showcase" models!
fastdriver
Yes it sucks that you paid more , but this is what happens in the car business.Things change. Would you be upset if you bought a 2004 300M FWD V6 car and then in 2005 the 300M comes out RWD and with a V8. Your 2004 will be worthless , but is this the fault of the automaker . I think not . This is called evolution .
" Imagine if you will a car maker suckering in unsuspecting customers"-Honda-/Acura / Ford -Jaguar / Nisson-Infiniti / Toyota -Lexus / Shall I go on
I was ready for that but your argument is flawed. Cadillac did NOT release the Escalade and then sell the same exact vehicle as a Tahoe for thousands less. Cadillac did the opposite. They took a lowly Tahoe (which I also own), added a 6.0 liter motor, all wheel drive, upgraded interior materials, traction control, body cladding, special paint and on and on. They then added an appropriate number to the MSRP to reflect this upscale model.
LHS owners were blind-sided by a car company that did just the oppposite. They took their "best" model and called it something lesser and lowered the price. Their actions are indefensible. And no I don't mind when a car company upgrades their vehicles year after year, that's expected. This was not an upgrade to more options or more refinement. This was simply the renaming of the LHS to the Concorde and shaving $6,000 from the price, nothing more, nothing less.
My only hope is that the marketing genius behind that decision will leave the 300M rebadged as the Neon Deluxe so that more buyers can get the Drive=Love feeling.
1) Zero percent financing.
2) I believed all the hype about the car being the best that Chrysler had to offer.
3) Dealer had only one white one on the lot and wouldn't deal. At the time, I didn't see a lot of these cars around. I felt like I was joining an exclusive club.
How was I to know that Chrysler would lower the club dues. I don't dislike anyone who builds Chryslers or anyone who owns them. I just feel sorry for them.
Here's the rest of the story. My mother also owns a 2000 Dodge Caravan. So far she's replaced the transmission, had problems with the brakes and replaced the entire A/C system. The A/C system went at 40,000 miles, conveniently just out of warranty. After being pushed around by Chrysler Customer Service she finally sued Chrysler and won. The A/C system on the Caravan is the same one as the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Chysler has a recall on the Jeep but not the Caravan. Hmmmmm. I wonder why? Maybe because there are 100 times more Chrysler Minivans on the road than Jeeps? Is this a company that puts its customers first or its profits? My mother sued on this basis and won!
I want out of the club. I can't afford the dues it's too expensive.
Why we got the 300M? Style. That's the key word. We had a charcoal metallic 89' Chevy Corsica (the best car we've ever owned to date, Avalanche not yet qualified). Even when there was a flood, drove it through water that was up over the headlights and besides from a little grass in one of the hubcaps and some condensation in a headlight that went away, it looked like it was just washed and never ran any differently. Traded that for our first "new" new car, a 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager. Never a problem in 3 years, other than rattly sliding doors, but the dealer in PA was determined to fix and eventually did.
Then, after moving to Delaware, in the fall of 2000, my mother wanted a 300M. Why? "It just looks so good," she had said. So, after looking at a white and pearl PHP 300M on a Monday, and then a Slate and Agate non-PHP on Tueday, we went home with the slate M on Thursday. Did we need to buy it? No, the van was quite good, but she wanted a change from the "minivan". Flawless and lovable to own from October through January, but then things started. First a bad rattle. Then more. Then front end pulling. Then poor shifting. Then bad rotors. Then a front end vibration. Then, then, then, just not a good story, topped off by yet another horrible "5*" dealer.
Then we were in a pretty bad accident exactly one year after purchase, got it back 2 months later, and then tried to live it out for 3 more months. Needless to say, that was beyond enough of the bull with our new sport-lux sedan, and we traded for something new.
There's many of us with the same story, fastdriver, us, now valhs, among many more in the archives. I guess we all had our reasons to start, now we just all have or had good reasons to cut it off.
My advice? Start getting more of an idea of what you like, are interested in, can afford, etc., and go have a good time again!
I can't believe how bad the resale figures are right now. About $11,500 for a loaded 99 LHS with average miles. And not much better for the 300M - about $13,000 for that same 99 model.
So much for trading it in this year...
Thanks for listening while I ranted for nearly 3 weeks regarding my experience. It was of course just my experience, that's what makes it personal. I don't expect anyone to understand or even agree. Had I never had a problem with my LHS, I too would be mostly satisfied. But here are the givens regardless of whether or not your LHS ever has a problem.
Givens:
1) Resale value is Yugo-like. We're talking 30- 35% loss per year.
2) 5 star service ain't. With few exceptions.
3) Your car now looks like a $6,000 cheaper version of its former self.
4) And finally much like candid camera, somewhere, sometime, someone will come up to you and say, "I'm sorry Mr. ________ but your ________ needs to be replaced and it's not covered under warranty. You can insert your name in the first blank and then faulty speed sensor, leaky chrome wheel, warped rotor, melting steering wheel, etc. in the second blank. Let's face it, these are just not reliable cars.
Finally, no doubt I will be taking a hit when I trade, somewhere between $4,000 and $6,000. But like beach15 so aptly put it; I'll find something I like, a dealer I can trust, a car or truck renowned for reliability and resale and put the fun back into driving again.
"I'll find something I like, a dealer I can trust, a car or truck renowned for reliability and resale and put the fun back into driving again."
Yep- that's what it's all about- FUN and not dealer visits every few weeks.
fastdriver
Next week, I'll be installing 4 new Yokohama Avid T4's, and the tire pressure gauges. We'll see... I can't wait to get rid of the Goodyears, I've endured dealing with the excessive road noise and the constant shiver for a long time now.
My dad drives an '02 Acura 3.5RL, which he loves. It's a very nice car, and he paid nearly $40k for it. He drove my LHS and thought it was wonderful. When I told him what I paid for it, he was shocked. Granted my car is two years old, but it has a bigger (and at least as comfortable) interior, a great sound system, 253hp vs. 225 for the Acura, and what a trunk...for significantly less than half of what he paid for his car. A real value.
A couple weeks ago, my wife, infant daughter, and I drove my parents down to NYC for a transatlantic cruise. Four adults, baby in a car seat, and a massive amount of luggage in the trunk, and it performed beautifully. I read a lot of griping on this thread, but I thought I'd chime in with a positive message.
I feel that the car has lots of nice touches....the digital info system/compass, the dimmer on the rear-view mirror, the interior lights that fade out, nice controls to the sunroof, etc.
Many friends and clients have given the car high praise, both for looks and for how nice it is to ride in. I'll miss my Saab 9000 turbo, but I have to say that the LHS is a pleasure to drive.
Is this just something LHS's do, or should I have it checked out? The car shifts very smoothly.
Thanks in advance.
I love my car, blah, blah, blah.....
So much room, blah, blah, blah......
Everyone loves my car, blah, blah, blah.....
Even relatives with Acuras love my car, blah, blah....
I'm thinking, oh great another Chrysler employee pretending to be an actual owner with some contrived story about how pleased he is with his new Chrysler and then this.....
By the way, what's this buzzing sound?
You gotta admit, this is funny stuff!
LOL... I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Thought, wow, that didn't take long. Oh well- let's see how long Drive=Love lasts!
fastdriver
PS Never heard that "buzzing" on Christine in 33 months. Guess I was "lucky"!
Don't worry Bob your car had that buzzing .Every LH car makes that sound ,you just didn't hear it . The trans in new cars today are electronic controlled and the shifting is not done by pump and line pressure any more ,its done with solenoids . So every time the trans shifts you hear the solenoid at work and it makes that buzz or ratcheting sound. Most often the sound is heard when shifting into reverse or drive from a stop . If you didn't hear this noise you would have a problem (your trans wouldn't shift)
I have driven Audis all my life, with the exception of my latest car, which was a 1994 Saab 9000 Aero (what a car THAT was!!).
I'm 39, I have a 7 month-old, and my wife and I wanted to find a car that had some panache, comfort, performance, and interior room. By the way, I'm 6'7".
In the LHS, I can put my seat all the way back, and it doesn't interfere with the rear-facing car seat. With the tilt steering, my legs don't even touch the steering wheel. That's a first for me.
While the LHS is no Saab Aero (a real rocket), it has plenty of power. The first time I drove the Chrysler, I was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled...very little roll, nice firm road manners, but not super-taut like the Saab on z-rated tires.
I paid less than $18,000 for a certified car with a bit of factory warranty left, and when I took a client to dinner last night, he remarked that "business must be very good!!". Little did he know that I got the car for relatively peanuts.
For the record, I even surprised MYSELF when I bought a Chrysler. But after finding the LHS to do everything I needed a car to do, I'm very happy. By the way, I had the dealer run a service history, and there was one small repair made under warranty about 18 months ago. I also spoke to the former owner who turned it in off lease, and he said he loved the car. He now drives a 2002 Concorde Ltd.
Any make, right up to Mercedes, can have lemons. One of my Audis was a nightmare back in the early '80's. But they are typically the exception and not the rule. Sorry you had lemons valhs and fastdriver. I'm driving a gem, and I have no reason to believe that it won't stay that way. Don't pee on my parade, OK?
Final thought. I have three clients who drive '99 LHS's. One has had some issues, but still loves her car. The other two say their cars have been flawless. That also had something to do with my decision. Sorry to be long-winded, but those skeptical posts had to be answered.
LOL... I've been wondering why I never heard that transmission buzz. I guess it was because my radio was usually turned up and the only buzz I heard was from the driver's door.
pcr42-
Don't worry. You don't need me to 'pee on your parade". That will happen all by itself.
fastdriver
I have not had any window problems, shrinking weatherstripping, noises, seat movement, clunking, etc. It gets 20 mpg around town and 27-28 actual mpg on my last 3,000 mile trip where I ran at 75-80 mph continously. My actual mpg is about 0.8 more than indicated by the display.
My only complaint is the noise from the OEM tires. They have about 10,000 miles left on them but I will probably replace with Yoko YK420's in a few months.
Looking for an additional vehicle now. Maybe a new Altima, Maxima, or G35. Would look at another Chrysler after they update the 300M.
I'm glad I don't have to go through all that very often to hear this buzzing....LOL!
Same thing on the highway, you can't tell what speed you are going because it's a much calmer ride, very nice. BUT, don't try to sway right or left at high speeds, these tires are quite soft and don't handle quick turns very well, I was dissapointed at the way the rear of the car swerves when you take a fast corner (as if you have heavy weight in the trunk). They are definetely NOT performance tires (worse than the Goodyears actually). But if you don't drive too fast and aggresive, these tires are Good especially for the money (pretty cheap compared to Michelins).
I'll post again, after I rack up a couple thousand miles or so on them.
Best regards.
2001 LHS
I don't believe it. I think it's a Photoshop job! First of all, I'm pretty sure that having video devices like that in the front seat- steering wheel, sun visors, dash etc. are against the law in all states! I think it all looks stupid. To each his own. I think it's a fake.
fastdriver
"FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY"
"NOT LEGAL IN SOME STATES"