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Comments
I get nosebleeds!
Yeah, a couple of posts met Kirstie's magic vanishing potion that she licensed to me.
if the age of Mercedes drivers isn't older than Lexus drivers.
I am not trying to start a war, I am just curious. Anything other than opinion out there?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Maybe someone here remembers the source.
Bottom line . . . there IS some credible data on this, and BTW, the average age of the MB driver IS older than the Lexus driver, but that is likely due to the demographics economic curve.
Most drivers tend to get older in ratio with the increase in price of the vehicles, with some very interesting exceptions, however.
TagMan
Car buyers' median age by brand:
Division Median age
Rolls-Royce 62.9
Lincoln 62.8
Buick 60.8
Mercedes 58.7
Chrysler 56.4
Mercury 55.1
Cadillac 53.4
Jaguar 49.8
Lexus 49.4
BMW 46.1
Ferrari 45.6
Hummer 45.6
Acura 45.3
GMC 44.4
Saab 44.4
Pontiac 43.4
Porsche 43.4
Dodge 42.9
Chevrolet 42.7
Honda 41.9
Toyota 41.9
Infiniti 41.6
Mitsubishi 41.3
Volvo 40.3
Ford 39.7
Land Rover 38.9
VW 38.7
Jeep 37.6
Nissan 35.1
Mazda 34.6
Suzuki 33.2
Isuzu 32.7
Subaru 31.7
Saturn 30.9
Hyundai 29.8
Kia 28.1
source
But watch the data get twisted.
TM
Where I live, about 7 out of 10 LS drivers are senior citizens.
I never mentioned the average or median age of the entire Lexus brand, did I?
Your statistic has no validity to what I posted, because this statistic going across the brand involves a lot of SUV sales-many of which are being driven by young, affluent Moms- what's their average age-about 34?
This is a huge market for Lexus and will skew the average or median age significantly downward.
Therefore, I have no problem with the average age being 49. I can accept that.
What would it be if you take out SUV and IS sales?
A lot higher!
Even Autospies photographed the demographic target sign for the new LS recently and it was, I believe 55-60.
Good luck Lexus with that!
Whether you like it or not, more affluent older people drive the LS than younger people of significant means.
Sorry, but that chart is totally inapropos what I am talking about.
Not where I live.
What point are you trying to make, anyway? Are you saying that LS owners on average are older than S owners? 7 owners? If the former, I disagree. We have no model-specific data, as you point out. But by observation, "where I live" if there is a difference between the age of the average S and LS driver, it would be that the S driver is older. I think the S appeals more to "old money" and the LS to "nouveau riche". All just my opinion.
If you mean that LS owners on average are older than 7 drivers, I would agree, based on personal observation and simple knowledge of the market positioning of the respective models.
That's gotta tell you something? No?
But that would be true about the S, 7, A8, etc., relative to their lineups.
So what is the point? Did anyone here ever say that the median LS buyer is 49?
I actually had been only skimming the thread of late, noted Tagman's request for the table, and found it for him. Didn't make any claim that it represented the LS specifically.
I have no problem with a viewpoint that the average LS buyer is older than the average Lexus buyer. But if you are trying to criticize the LS or its buyers by saying they are "old", I would respond that imho they are no older than S buyers.
We need to be talking about the CARS. You like or don't like the car for what the car is - you don't like or dislike the car because of real or perceived demographical data ... do you?? :confuse: I sure hope not.
BTW, season finale of "Rescue Me" airs tonight.
TagMan
Great segue into the "Rescue Me" by the way!
The engine is low-sulfur ready and Tier 2 emissions capable.
BUT: The bluetec isn't done. MB will fit the water-vapor canister to the entire system to work in concert with the 4 catalytic converters that will last 1M miles for the '08 m/y. The Germans will have the cleanest diesels on the face of the planet, even outperforming some of those supposed super clean gas motors. Audi's TDI has a similar system on their cars that will be for sale here in '08. And BMW with the diesel-electric powerplant that it is in cahoots with GM on? This is going to be a very interesting upcoming year.
High Maintenance? Nowhere close. If MB does anything right, it's diesel engines.
Let's please keep our comments confined to how we feel about the cars themselves from here on out. There's plenty to debate right there.
The first comment by somebody who viewed the ad was in essence that the new LS looks too much like a "5-er."
I cleaned his comment up a bit.
A little from the back, perhaps.
Otherwise, I surely don't see it.
Man, I'm with you on this.
As Dewey pointed out, this is the engine I'm waiting for. It will be worth the wait, I have little doubt. The question is, which models will get it?
I'm under the impression that we'll find the BlueTec in the E-Class and also in the new GL, but I just have to believe that it will work it's way into the S-Class sooner or later . . . it just plain makes so much sense to me to offer an S-Class diesel.
TagMan
Seems odd, but it is nonetheless true.
More interesting is to note the sales data for BMW in Japan.
link title
TagMan
For sure, this will be the engine they'll put in the S and GL, as well as the ML-Class.
The '08 C-Class is due to be the first diesel passenger car to be 50 state certified early next year, just a couple of months ahead of the new A4/A6 TDI's and the 330d that BMW claim they won't send yet the car has been given the green light in the crash standards and EPA certifications earlier this month. Why go through this much trouble to certify a car that you don't plan on selling here? The 530d is scheduled to come also.
There is no question that MB will get 50-state compliance out of the Bluetec as it is that good. The JGC CDI will the first domestic model to be able to be 50-state legal. The Jeep will feature the water-vapor canister that spits out only water from the exhaust pipe. DCX is on a major roll.
It's what I have found. Sorry if it frustrates you.
From my own experience, 100% of S-class drivers and 80% of 7-series and LS drivers are senior citizens.
Yeah, it does frustrate me. I want one of those NOW, at 30, not when I am at 70. But old people have got the wealth, well... it takes long to accumulate wealth :sick:
The future looks bright for DCX / MB.
TagMan
The future looks bright for DCX / MB.
Are you referring to the 30% news?
DB was not in its right mind when becoming DC. Shoulda picked a Japanese company to merge with. Look at Mazda and Nissan now.
Subaru should be a great buy for BMW.
No. But there are those that frown on that business deal. It's all history now.
I am agreeing with blkhemi that the combined company (like it or not), is poised to do very well with its diesel engines in the immediate future and beyond.
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Daimler-Benz merger:
Chrysler merged in 1998 with Daimler-Benz to form DaimlerChrysler AG. This was initially touted as a merger of equals, but within a couple of years the truth was evident: it was a buyout of Chrysler by Daimler-Benz, with the latter being very much the dominant partner. As if on cue, Chrysler went into another of its financial tailspins soon after the merger, greatly depressing the stock price of the merged firm and causing serious alarm at headquarters in Germany, which sent new CEO, Jürgen Schrempp, to take charge. The Plymouth brand was phased out in 2001, and plans for cost-cutting by sharing of platforms and components began. The strongly-Mercedes-influenced Chrysler Crossfire was one of the first results of this program. A return to rear-wheel drive was announced, and in 2004, a new Chrysler 300 using this technology and a new Hemi V8 appeared and became a solid hit. Financial performance began to improve somewhat, with Chrysler now providing a significant share of DaimlerChrysler profits due to restructuring efforts at the Mercedes Car Group. The long-standing partnership with Mitsubishi was dissolved as DaimlerChrysler divested its stake in the firm due to diving Mitsubishi profits and sales worldwide.
On April 7, 2005, a conclusion was announced by U.S. District Judge Joseph Farnnan Jr. presiding over a bench trial in Wilmington, Delaware between Kirk Kerkorian and DaimlerChrysler AG regarding allegations that Jürgen Schrempp of Daimler Benz AG, prior to the 1998 merger, lied and manipulated the Security Exchange Commission and Chrysler Corporation's shareholders (the largest of which was Kirk Kerkorian's Tracinda Corporation) by touting the 1998 merger as a merger of equals, and not an outright acquisition. The judge found in favor of DaimlerChrysler. However, another case (brought by other shareholders, on the same merit as the Kerkorian case) was settled in 2003 for $300 million. The Kerkorian case took over one year to decide.
TagMan
SOURCE: THE INDEPENDENT, LONDON EDITION
link title
You're not kidding! Worthless trash!
What TagMan would say to the author of that review:
YOU'RE FIRED!
Knowledge about Rottweilers and their owners.
Wonder if he will review the LS460?
I can see it now: "a pit-bull in sheep's clothing."
He did like the GS450h.
In that case he has very little knowledge about the Q7 and the GS450H.
Subaru should be a great buy for BMW.
Well, all of the cash they pumped into Mitsubishi went into a giant black hole, never to be seen again. At the time of the DCX merger, Nissan was headed for doom. I don't think that DB could've done nearly the job that Ghosn has turning Nissan around. Nissan could be where Mitsubishi is now if DB had "merged" with them instead.
BMW buy Subaru? I thought most of GM's 20% stake was picked up by Toyota, and they are already building (or there are plans in place to build) Camrys at one of Subaru's under utilized US plants.
SOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL
link title
I do sense some kind of disaster here with the above quote. If idrive can make the most trivial tasks complex can you imagine depending on a BMW designed remote Park-Assist system.
In fact I would have more confidence in depending on my 16 year old nephew (still learning to drive and park) to park my car than being fully dependent on a BMW remote system.
I wouldn't worry too much about the reliability factor. BMW has made significant improvements here, as even CR has noticed.
I feel confident enough in BMW that I will predict right here that within the next 2 years BMW will overtake Lexus in quality and reliability.
There are already cracks showing in Toyota/Lexus' armor.
I look for this trend to continue.
BMW up. Lexus down. :shades:
While I have previously predicted a slight downtick in Lexus' overall quality, due to the large number of new sophisticated technologies that they are employing . . . I am afraid that I do not agree with your statement at all.
I think it is necessary for BMW to increase its quality and reliability, as it is for MB, and I do expect that to happen . . . but they will not overtake Lexus within two years, if ever, in terms of overall statistical reliability, IMO.
More likely, look for a shrinking reliability gap between the marques, as a result of improved reliability, as well-demonstrated in the last few years by our respected friends at Jaguar.
TagMan
BMW has improved to the point where, if I could get a 7 with AWD, I would certainly consider it rather than an LS. However, I agree with Tagman on your prediction, and would place money against you.
Almost as sure as those puts I took on the price of crude last week.
That should get me a week at the beach. :shades:
I would be shopping the MB S-Class and possibly the new LS if the reviews get consistently better than what I have already read. I want to read more about the brakes.
I am fully aware of BMW's limitations, and it starts and ends with the interior appointments.
I have never been a cheerleader for the BMW 7, and still feel this vehicle runs contrary to this automaker's "vision."
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TagMan
The reviewer seems to have more of a bone to pick with Lexus as a brand than actually contributing anything meaningful about the 2007 LS itself. Sounds like he had this review written before he even approached the vehicle.
He writes "The brand still ranks near zero Kelvin on the prestige thermometer" and "Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes Benz, Cadillac(!), BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."
If you're going to review a car, tell us about the car and don't use a review as a thinly disguised personal vendetta against Lexus.
Given this reviewer's pre-conceived distaste for Lexus, the vehicle didn't stand a chance.
Let's hope that we can soon read some unbiased comprehensive reviews of the 2007 LS. We don't need biased hatchet jobs.
Well at least we have these forums as a respite from such extremes.
I'm a BMW person so what I say is colored by that point of view. It's expected.
I am not being paid by a newspaper to give a supposedly unbiased review which turns out to be nothing more than a personal vendetta against Lexus.
I came away with absolutely nothing from that review except that the reviewer is biased against Lexus as a company.
The LA Times should not have printed it.
It is a disservice to their readers who are about to shop this vehicle.
There is a higher principle at stake here. It's called journalistic integrity.
I may personally dislike the LS, but I will surely defend the right of someone who wants to shop this car to be able to read a comprehensive, unbiased review that will help him in his decision-making.
If I am running a newspaper and one of my music critics hates Verdi, why would I send him to review Aida?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I would be perfectly happy if newspapers didn't have auto reviews. Most of them register zero on my Richter scale.
Perhaps AutoWeek will review it in October. If I see a date, I will post it.
headline news: hpowders stands up for OBJECTIVITY!
TagMan
"Strategic Vision's Total Quality Index is a measure of new vehicle owner satisfaction. It asks buyers to rate all aspects of the ownership experience, from buying and owning to driving."
"For the second year in a row, BMW's 7 Series topped the Luxury Car segment of SVTQ Awards. BMW repeated as the highest scoring brand, its seventh time to do so in eight years."
Always good to read, although I have never heard of SVTQ.
Has anyone heard of these guys?
Probably 4 BMW middle-management guys sitting at a table.
I can't believe the editor allowed the Lexus hate-speech to be published under the guise of a "review."