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I flew 1500 miles to get the best buy on my LS no problem with my local dealer...and...It was a lot of fun buying it. Lexus is known for having terrific dealerships. Maybe it would be fun..Just to drive one.
"There are 3 versions of Crown - Majesta, Royal and Athlete. The Athlete is the most sporty, with stiffest suspension setup. Majesta is most luxurious, powered by a 280 hp V8. It also has longer wheelbase. Royal runs middle of the road and is usually the best seller among them. No matter which version, handling is far beyond imagination. Gone is the traditional soft suspension setup, which is replaced with firmer springing and damping. As a result, steering response and body control are greatly improved. Although it is still regarded as comfort-bias by European standard, it is already more driver-bias than other domestic rivals, including Nissan Gloria. In particular, it rolls less and steer with more feel than the Nissan.
Although the range-topping Majesta is powered by Lexus뭩 4-litre V8, most other Crowns are likely to be ordered with 3.0 inline-6. This 24-valver is actually the same as Supra and Lexus GS300. No matter with or without direct-injection, it output 220 horsepower and 217 lbft of torque. As in Lexus GS, it is silky smooth and quiet. Predictably, Toyota provides no option for manual gearbox, but there are two electronic automatic for choose: 4-speed automatic is smoother; 5-speed Super ECT (with Tiptronic style manual override mode) is quicker."
Some cars are going to be dead on showrooms. The salesman should have know that you were coming and had the thing standing tall and ready to ride. Hopefully, this is less likely to happen at a premium car dealer but it happens. Have them put a brand new battery in it anyway, but that shouldn't be a problem.
So, you drove 90 miles with two cars? I can't hardly believe that they weren't savvy enough to figure out some way to make you happy and make the deal happen after you went to so much effort.
re your post 6033 (I was on an extended vacation, sorry for the late reply), I think that modern diesels are indeed very impressive...compared to older deisels and current gas ICEs. But unless someone is doing 100% highway driving, hybrids are going to be better, imho. Read this: http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/business/10877346- 48278220.xml?banew and also the Automobile magazine article from 1-2 months back.
And now from Analyze That...
"Paul, I think we've had enough sahzeech for one day."
;-)
Toyota going after Kia would hardly be the first example of a hypocritical infringement suit.
M
Actually, I think they are worse. I see progress with the Koreans. Toyota shoots in the dark.
The only even slight knock-off I can think off is the LS430 and even that isn't really, because, personally the only resemblance to any other car I can see is in the C-pillar rearward area.
Like I said before if Toyota/Lexus has any such styled cars (2-3 per you not me) you already made my point.
M
Look, your argument has been shot down before. YOu know when you say every Lexus is copied off of Benz, yet you can't come up with anything except for the LS430.
If you count little styling cues as being knock-offs, everything would be a knock-off of everything else. Take a look at the 5-series, the rear end looks like a old Kia Rio, even MT caught that one, the current CLK looks like it has bits of Volvo C70 coupe and Mustang in the rear, the new RL rear looks like a number of cars, Hyundai XG, BMW 7-series, the rear of the BMW 6-series has been compared to the old Chrysler Cirrus. And the rear of the LS430 looks a bit like the S-class. big deal. What else can you come up with besides the LS430 and MR2? Nothing?
What is the ES a knock-off of?(I know you won't have a answer so you'll come up with that lame statement "it's ugly").
How about a RX330?
LX470?
GX470?
GS300/430?
SC430?
IS300?
Celica?
Tundra?
Camry?
Avalon?
Corolla?
Tacoma?
Solara?
xA
xB
tC????
Hey what happened to audibob?? "I think someone fell off of the roof".
2-3 out of 20 may be nothing to you (obviously) but it proves my point, which was that Toyota is in no postion to sue anyone over styling issues. Like their styling is unique compared to the Koreans. Nobody said their whole lineup was guilty of anything so your pointless challenges are just that, pointless. You proved my point a few posts ago, there exists some Toyota knock-offs. End of story.
I ascribe your dismissal of a car like the ES330 being ugly because that is what your fav specializes in. Comes with the job.
M
You said Toyota knocks off cars like the Koreans, which I basically shot down.
If a car has similar styling cues it does not make it a knock-off. Otherwise we could say Benz is a knock-off also, so is BMW, Infiniti, etc.
"I ascribe your dismissal of a car like the ES330 being ugly because that is what your fav specializes in. Comes with the job. "
Typical merc1, trying to spin things around. I didn't say it was ugly, you have said that before when I shot down your statement which went something like "Lexus copies Benz styling" and you basically couldn't back it up so you resort to the ES is ugly.
So far I don't even see 2-3 knockoffs. Do you? In fact I see 0.
Well allow me to be the first. With the exception of trucks, vans and the MR2. Their whole styling lineup sucks more than anything has sucked before. Of course the exception is the Bangle lineup with which they are probably dead equal.
Ljflx... did you see A Bronx Tale? That's the movie that made Chazz. I think he wrote it. Also it was DeNiro who recognized his talent and was heavily involved in producing/promoting it.
Not even close. I can't wait to get my 2005 Bangled 3-series with the 333-hp engine.
And seriously, I don't see where their car line-up is that sucky in terms of styling compared to other mainstream brands at similar price points.
The only Toyota that I find really ugly is the Avalon.
The Camry may be blah but definately not ugly in it's class, especially when you compare it to the Malibu.
That recall includes replacement of the Fuel Pump as well. Apparently to soften the blow they're providing a $200 Gas card..(That's secondhand info from the Lexus owners forum)..This underscores my point about the LS quality slipping on absolute terms. I definitely feel this car is not as good as original LS400's in build quality.I've heard my dealer service consulant lament this many times...I think Lexus along with other manufacturers are too busy cramming pointless electronics into these cars..
I don't have much use for most of these toys as I feel they distract from the driving experience..Also they affect the durability of the car..I sincerely doubt a LS430 can go 12 yrs trouble free with all the electronic gimmicks it's crammed with..
I think have to agree with Merc...The current LS is a shameless copy of the older S Class..The resemblance is clearly there..Their styling has become more unoriginal as time goes on. Maybe 2006 will bring something better.
I find myself more willing to trade some of the Lexus reliability for something that's sleeker and more original in design. Frankly I'm quite disappointed with this LS430..Mine is only two years old and the design hasn't aged well at all..The paint chips way too easily despite being waxed 4 times a year..I've also had to have the rain sensor replaced 3 times and the steering column motor replaced.. I never had any of these problems with my prior LS cars. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but perhaps part of a growing one. I've owned enough LS cars long term to have the experience to comment on this..
SV
The site below is a good check for recalls. The LS is the only Lexus under a recall right now. Just about every BMW (somethin livinbmw didn't point out) and every MB model is currently under a recall.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.c- - - fm
designman - saw it. He's an excellent actor. I'm also a big Deniro fan. The guy can be an excellent dramtical actor and at the same time has a great delivery for comedy. Deniro did a lot of charity work post 9/11 and lives in Tribeca.
Previa
echo
Paseo
Previa is by far the ugliest.........
All guys don't buy "penthouse" type vehicles with reliability as the key motive. In fact, the ones that are willing to pay more for the 'bimmer would probably contend that there buying motives are met by the seven's road manners and over-all ride and drive qualities. Maybe, that's why they sell for more....because the driver after reliability and return on the precious dollar is willing to pay less than the guy that just wants a great driving car that he feels great about.
I think that just about anyone that really has a lick of sense about vehicles would not contend that BMW builds any "junk" but you've pulled it off and sound brilliant in such a bold statement, truly brilliant.
I hope that you're not one of those 13,000 customers that have to deal with transmission recall on the '04 LS. What a shame. Shame on TOYOTA.
Remember when BMW had all of those failed 7-series 4.0L V8s that they had to replace for customers?
Let's not forget Lexus is still #1 in quality and reliability. How many years in a row was that?
BTW, you think the LS430's lower price has anything to do with prestige? Have you also noticed how much it's price has gone up in 15 years vs. how much the 7-series price has gone up? The LS400 used to be $40K, now it reaches $70K. the 2000 LS400 topped out at $60K, and yet this more expensive LS430 can be decked out to $70K+ and is selling alot better than the 2nd gen. LS400. I bet the next generation LS will be even closer in price to the 7-series and still sell well.
The Paseo and PRevia. wow! coming up with ugly Toyotas from a decade ago! You're staying current!
How about those Bangled BMW's that soo many people think are ugly. Amazing how BMW can do no wrong yet everyone else can.
And it is quite obvious not everyone is looking for performance as much as you like to point out. How many people actually buy a BMW for it's handling prowess or steering feel? I bet you not that percentage is nowhere near 100%.
There isn't any reason for this conversation to continually devolve into this petty "my brand is better than your brand, so there" conversation. There are plenty of places all over the Town Hall where that kind of conversation goes on all the time.
This discussion was always supposed to be on a higher level than that. Can we try to get back there?
I challenge all of you to name one thing about the brand of your heart that you wish would be done better. And then pick another brand that you really would not choose in your heart of hearts and name one thing you like that it does. And then maybe really discuss differing opinions - listen, think and respond thoughtfully and respectfully without the knee-jerk antagonistic stuff that keeps overtaking us.
Give it a try. Let's get this conversation onto a different path; one that is rewarding and productive. Work with me here. Go to another more appropriate discussion for the head-butting, okay?
One thing that I do like that Lexus does is the touch screens for the Nav.
I've seen criticisms of other vehicles for not having the full-framed windows. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that true of the ES 300/330? Is this a function of the lower end vehicle of the upper end marque, seems like it might be. I don't like it either.
What's with the batteries?
Hmmm..that would be Mercedes-Benz of course, reliability being the thing I wish they did better.
Lexus is the one I wouldn't choose and about the only the I did admire about them is their stellar reliability record.
M
Mercedes is the most overated car in the world, but it is pretty, and their string around the finger aren't I pretty commerical is very nice. They also deserve credit for their many safety innovations in years past.
- 5 series -
July 2003: 5313
July 2004: 2668
- 7 series -
July 2003: 1595
July 2004: 876
Those are pretty steep losses. Especially for the 5 series, a 50% drop in July sales is pretty significant. All the more considering that the 5 is a NEW model. And the new M, GS, RL, A6, and STS haven't even come out yet!
Maybe it's a one time blip, I don't know. Hopefully it'll force BMW to reconsider its pricing strategy.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=05810537
I admire Toyota for taking a huge chance on Lexus and succeeding thouroughly. Lexus totally changed the Luxury car market.
Kdshapiro - saying you are going to improve quality and accomplishing it are two different things. The way they said it had a bit too much of a marketing ring to me. They also said they were going to do something about quality a year ago (someone lower in the command chain said it) and quality worsened. Common sense tells me that with Toyota projecting to rack up $13bln (probably conservative) in profits this fiscal year, with Lexus widening its US sales lead while raising prices, with rapid Asian gains and with new hybrid engines around the corner that will revolutionalize the lux segment - MB and the Germans are probably a lot more worried about Lexus than vice-versa. I would be if I were them as would any responsible business person. Toyota is a juggernaut right now - rolling over everything in front of it.
I don't watch sitcoms. They all seem the same to me templated formula for comedy. Also, I can't stomach the canned laughter with its repetitious predictable rhythm. Honeymooners were recorded in front of live audiences and were frequently ad libbed like when Ralph went to the masquerade party as the Man From Space and his "denaturizer " button fell off that hilariously cobbled costume. I guess sitcom creators use the Comedy Wizard in the MS Office suite ;-)
kd... we have Bud Light etc. and are now entering the era of Bangle Light.
Notice how all of a sudden Mercedes is showing advertisments touting how many cars this person has had and that person has had and how many miles people have.
They still make some excellent cars, but them improving quality would only make the market that much more competitive which is good for everyone.
I think I got a good deal at end of month on LS (about 6500 off).
I am Very happy with my choice. I really wanted Blue Tooth, and the ML system and those 2 items alone make the Lexus the clear winner for me.
I was able to down load my phone book from my Sony Ericsson phone in about 3 minutes once we figured it out (call customer care from Sony if you need help). I bit the bullet and went for the factory installed Sat. Radio which is too expensive but my 20 year old son said it best, "This is awesome!"
The ride is sublime and the acceleration is terrific.
The dealer was not what a luxury experience should be about, however. The negotiations were "old school" meaning full of voodoo numbers and old tricks ("we made a mistake on the calculation, you must take delivery by tomorrow"), high pressure tactics, double teaming etc. Very disappointing I almost walked but it was the car I wanted, so I bit the bullet. Next time I will not even enter a dealership to purchase a Lexus but do all via phone and fax. BMW and MB were much nicer experiences.
Same with delivery experience. Sat radio was not activated by dealer and when I called to do so was told that dealer needs to do it so that I can save on activation fee and free first month. No luxury aspect in picking up car. Just sat in lot with salesperson and he went over car with me. They were delivering many cars that day and it was a bit stressfull as they were running way behind schedule and I had to wait a bit. We did not finish and I had to go back the next day.
But love the car so far.
One thing I don't understand is the shift options.
If you put the button in power mode does that hold the gears longer for a sporty type of drive?
By putting lever to left I know you can "manually shift" but I don't really get how the ranges (1-6) work or why and when you'd use).
With gear shift lever to right (normal position) will the car use gears 1-6?
Maybe someone can explain better than the manual.
Thanks for everyone's help and input in the past which was useful information in making my decision to "join the club".