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click the small pic to go to a gallery. Imho, styling looks only ok.
Yes I was.... That's why I had the smiley face at the end of my post.
BUT it worked didn't it ? It got you to pony up your typical well-informed and thoughtful post, rather than the one-liner you have been reduced to lately...
Love reading from Len, as well. I learn something from him everytime...
Just this past weekend, my friend who owns a 1998 S500 (the tank) told me he will never buy an MB again. This guy was a huge German-car nut (owned a 911 (sold) and a 735i (sold)). Now, he just purchased a 2005 Escallade with the 6L motor; just couldn't justify the additional $15K for the 2005 LX470. He's never owned a Japanese car in his life, but claimed his next sedan will definitely be the LS. His S500 now goes to his 17-yr-old son as his daily driver. Why, I asked ? He told me they just don't build them as they used to. Too many issues with his MB. For example, his rear-view mirror was toast. Cost $1100. Geez !!!
I guess we'll see how MB makes these adjustments going forward. Hopefully, they come to their senses rather than living off their heritage and brand cache and do something quick.
Cost-cutting is easy on paper but not easy on your psyche since you are affecting people's live's. You always go with a guy who's done it or worked under someone who's done it. From what I read about this guy - he can withstand the pressures within the company but with a marquee German name like MB there will be tremendous union and political pressure to withstand as well. He hasn't been there (political) - very few have. To stave all that off and save the prestige of the brand name - knowing that they will have to cut back on models and options that exist today (otherwise you can't cut the costs in the first place) is an impossible task. That's why the status king days are numbered. And as I said earlier - the words faded and MB should never be in the same sentence if you want "status" clout.
The other thing brought out by that story is MB's excessive white collar management and inefficient production. I said a long time ago that Lexus is cheaper because its a streamlined very efficient company with far advancced robotics than MB has. Hence the cars are built cheaper and with greater precision and quality. End result - the phenomenal reliability we see. When you overpay for MB it's not just status you're paying for - it's also all that excess management and inefficient production as well. Merc1 used to think MB charged top dollar because they could do whatecer they pleased. He never understood they charged a lot because they had to and that if the volume fell or the price was forced to come down than they were in trouble. Unmentioned in that story is that MB had to take back many 2001 and 2002 cars for prices that were lower than the residuals on the original leases (52% vS 65-67%). That is the Enron part of the story.
US boards are increasingly being held accountable for a CEO and his staff's bad decisions - Worldcom, Disney, Enron - and need to pay with damages from their pockets that insurance doesn't cover . It may become a global thing in the future. maybe the BOD's will finally represent shareholders the way they are supposed to.
Guess what, the new 5 design is beginning to grow on me. Really. There was this 545i riding my tail in traffic earlier today. I took a long look at it as it whizzed by me. Lovely car. With three other 2004/05 5-series at my work place, I see them everyday and I am starting to like the it. Weird, but true !!
Bangle may not be that bad a designer afterall. Maybe he is ahead of his time, and it is just we paeons that cannot understand such evolutionary designs.
Now, knowing that is virtually impossible, I should have no fear.
Oh, it must be the *Tsunami after-effect* rain that has pestered us here for the past week. This has certainly impaired my vision and sensibility for me to start liking the Bangle-ized 5-series ??? Unfortunately, it is actually true. Don't ask me to explain it tho'. I also do like the 300C as well. Go figure ...
OAC - forget the 5-series, get the LX470 and go skiing in that 20 feet of snow in the mountains.
1) Not all manufacturers historically were focused on long service life. Certainly, the BMW 7 Series has been plagued with basic engineering problems since day one (plastic thermostat housings, plastic water pump parts, heads that go crack in the night, auto tranny's that were good for 100,000 miles max. with towing verboten, cheap liners or sleeves, etc.) Jaguar similarly never was a 200,000 mile car.
2) While the electronics are very problematic and expensive to fix, the basic power trains seem to be getting better and better. They are even approaching the reliabililty and service life of a small block Chevrolet, a Chrysler 727 or Ford C6 tranny. (The next time you are at an airport, the baggage tugs are all running 727s or Ford C6 trannys often behind Ford 300 engines.)
3) Even if we agree that the the buy'em and hold'em strategy is outdated, this was probably unintentional on the manufacturers' part. In other words, they didn't plan it this way. They couldn't have. Has their statistical analysis gotten so good that they can predict mean time to failure for these components? As a side note, look at the factory to dealer cost of the BMW CPO Program. It is a very hefty $1200 for the certificate alone AFTER all the remedial service work, delayed warranty work, etc. has been done. Because of the justified paronia about owning a BMW out of warranty, the dealer mark up on CPO cars seems to me to be on the order of about $3500 to $4000 above a non CPO car. So, the industry has found a way through their CPO programs to spin around defeat into victory, making chicken sh.. into chicken salad!
> sense and referring to either Eckhard Cordes,
> head of Mercedes or Schrempp himself.
He was clearly addressing me telling me I brainwash myself and spout BS, it would seem. Which I find somewhat weird, first because I was agreeing with him, second because it seems out of character...
I find your (3) very worthy of discussion:
> 3) Even if we agree that the the buy'em and
> hold'em strategy is outdated, this was
> probably unintentional on the manufacturers'
> part. In other words, they didn't plan it this
> way. They couln't have. Has their statistical
> analysis gotten so good that they can predict
> mean time to failure for these components?
Needless to say I do not have an answer, but if I would work in product planning for a major car manufacturer, I get the market data telling me that power and gimmickry rank ahead of relaibility with a majority of my target customers (who just intend to drive the car for 3 years), and then some engineer tells me that it increases my COGS by a significant amount of money if a subsystem is designed for 300k miles instead of 100k, and on top of that management makes margins highest priority, then I'd stick with the lower spec. So it could also be that vendors are making design trade-offs simply because they result in higher margins without the majority of the primary target customer group being affected all too negatively. So it *could* be all part of a planning cycle. Or it could be all accidental, which would be a disgrace since companies such as Toyota demonstrate that you can combine leading top reliability scores with industry leading profitability - and perhaps there's even some causality there.
"Buy and hold" is perhaps outdated for MB owners-- and maybe that is why their sales are down; the segment that looks for reliability has moved on to the Japanese manufacturers.
When buy-and-hold truly breaks down is when there is a major change in technology. Perhaps when airbags came in, people who could afford to replace cars when desired rather than needed, had an incentive to buy. I think the next time will be when hybrid engine technology becomes entrenched by offering improved performance as well as efficiency. It would be interesting to see Lexus put a more powerful hybrid 5.0L engine in the LS instead of just the upgrade from 3.3L to 4.0L they are putting in the RX; my guess is it would quickly outsell the current 4.3L.
A tongue in cheek remark about the 5 Series.."There is no such thing as an ugly car, you just haven't drunk enough!" The only BMW I find remotely attractive is the 6 Series..Nice lines but it's still weird looking. The 5 Series looks like some Japanese cartoon artist gone mad. (IMHO) I like the dignified stately look of my new LS430. It's not too flashy.
Reliability is still an incredible marketing tool.Remember all those flashy Lexus LS400 ads in 1990? I remember watching the one with the ball bearing test and then the one with the champagne glasses on the hood and thinking "Wow!" Next thing you know I'm trading in my perfectly fine low mileage Park Avenue for one. I'm normally not swayed by these marketing gimmicks, but they got me to buy one.
Even if the ownership is short term those reliability statistics are great for men's bull sessions...We all know buying a car >$35K is hardly a logical decision.(Just ask our wives!)
If that were the case we'd all drive Camrys. If you're going to spend the sort of money we do, you need something to justify the purchase.."But Honey, it's the most reliable car on the planet.."
(That doesn't work anymore because I keep trading in LS cars to buy new ones! This time I used the excuse of the Backup camera and SmartKey)
Of course the affect on residuals is another benefit..I think the knock on Jaguar is the public's perception of poor quality..Most wouldn't know that they're one of the highest Euro nameplates now and have one of the best extended warranty programs in the business. Despite being a big fan of Jaguar, I am not willing to write the check to buy one...They'll need to improve their electronics to Lexus standards before I'll consider it. I'd definitely pay for Jaguar styling combined with Lexus quality.
SV
Regardless, it would appear that the vaunted StarMark vehicle locator system designed to locate a stolen MB must have malfunctioned, eh ? Figures.... If the GLOBAL head of MB cannot locate his stolen specially-equipped S, what should the C or E class owners expect when their lesser equipped and cache cars are stolen ?
I think this goes to show that Professional Car Thieves can steal anything they want..All a security system does is dissuade 16 yr old juvenile deliquents from stealing the car..If a Profession Thief wants your car, whether it be a $400K S-Class or $63K Lexus, they'll steal it.
Although amusing, I think this could have happened to anyone..What I find strange is that they left the car unattended..I bet his driver is in some German interrogation room right now.
SV
http://motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0406_sketch/
http://www.barnstablepatriot.com/doc.php?28,5660,2223028,2223028x- - - p,,,Doc,page.html
If the Camry comes in hybrid form in 2006 (and I've read elsewhere Toyota plans to sell 100K of then in the US) then you'd have to think the ES330 will also have a hybrid option that year.
Do most of you'll not like it just cause its name is not as big as the other three or are there some faults with it that I am not aware off?
The A8 also has the most HP amongst all these cars and a superior interior than the other three IMO.
It's probably the same reason why you don't hear about the Jaguar XJ too often..Low volume compared to the LS, S, and 7 Series. My purchase of Lexus cars has nothing to do with name..I bought it when it's "name" was non existent back in the early nineties..A few reasons why I personally don't opt for Audi: Resale Value, Electronics quality doesn't match the LS430 (I feel the Japanese have the edge here), and the ride isn't what I'm personally looking for.
I'll admit I'm a huge Jaguar fan, but would never buy one for the reasons I stated for Audi...I simply don't have the time or patience to deal with a car that isn't trouble free..I love to push the example of the '92 LS that I own..0 unexpected hours out of service..The only time I've been without it was for scheduled maintenance. Even then I was given a brand new ES as a loaner.
My LS430 certainly lacks the flair and driving dynamics of an Audi or Jaguar (Well at least the previous XJ) but that is compensated for with the outstanding quality, residual value, electronics, and customer service..I realize buying a high end car is never a fully rational decision, but in my book objectives have to come first..Just my two cents..
SV
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http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
Audi sales are indeed 5,942 in FY2004, however, they represent ~50% growth YoY (vs FY2003). In contrast, and more towards Ljflx's point below, the LS sales were 32,272, representing a 5-fold margin of sales vs the A8. See, statistics don't lie, do they ?
I personally do not care if the LS outsells all three of the above brands combined as it is not in the same league.
Define Enthusiast first..Car and Driver and the rest of the autorag consider the LS in the same league. If you're going to put down the LS point to some objective measure..In the last comparo I read, the LS was second to the A8 only b/c of their preference for "Soul." Any attempt to putdown the obvious success of the LS is arrogance.
Performance? The notion that the LS is slow is a myth..I've driven all of these cars and the only notable difference in handling was noted in the BMW. Straight line acceleration is comparable to all. Handling isn't 747 like as some here would believe..Have you even driven a LS430 with the Euro Suspension? Even the Auto rags agree it's competent but doesn't have the feel of the BMW.
Looks? The 7 Series is certainly nothing to look at..I'm sure you're aware of how universally the 7 has been lambasted for its current design and iDrive..The S-Class tail looks more like a Korean car than a 85K sedan. The spyshots I've seen of the new one are even worse.. If you want to talk looks, let's talk about Jaguar. They continue to produce the most eye catching designs out there. Have you had a look at their successor to the XK?..Breathtaking..
SV
While there is a handling difference between the LS and the 7, for you to say that performance-wise the LS "isn't in the same league" as the S is a bit of a strech:
2005 LS430: 0-60 5.9 sec, 290 hp, 320 lb-ft
2005 S430: 0-60 6.9 sec, 275 hp, 295 lb-ft
Who isn't in the same league?