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I don't even have the car yet, and already I'm adding accessories!
bast2-- yeah, if you have read my previous posts, here in Seattle we have only 2 Audi dealers and they both were quite arrogant in their attitude and pricing structure. I had to go to a small town almost 100 miles away to get a "decent" deal and to be treated like my business was appreciated.
mulifat-- I tried to make my deal the last day of February and one of the dealers here in the Seattle area told me that I was getting a good deal at 7%+ over invoice (almost $2,000 over) so I "walked"--I never was called back. I guess that shows you how much in demand the car is/was in this area.
goonies-- My salesman also told me that about the 1.8t in the A4 having 180hp although being only rated at 170hp. He said that he wasn't supposed to tell me that...lol. If you go to the "2001 Audi A4 1.8t Pricing" forum here on Edmunds, you can read the posts that mmcbride1 was involved in that have to do with this topic (post #156 thru #170). If you haven't already seen these sites, for pics of the 2002 go to http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/geneva/highlights3.shtml and for info about the 2002 go to http://www.audi-a4.com/audi_a4.html
lauk0dg-- let me know what suspension or wheel and tire mods you are considering. I don't know yet what changes I want to do if anything. Yeah, i guess I know what you mean by the chipping forums on Audiworld. I see that you have a nice forum on your local club website (Lakes Quattro Club). Can you ask about chipping there? Just taking a quick look at the forum, I didn't see your name on any of the posts. Are you using the same name on that forum? And yeah, it would sure be nice to go to your club's gathering--it would be a nice trip to break in the car! lol but no, I can't make the trip to Chicago as I have no extra vacation time to spare right now.
schwitzer1-- lol! well, from what I understand, turbo timers are only needed when chipping above 1bar and are definitely not needed on a stock engine because the 1.8t in its stock form uses a very low pressure turbo. But I'm no expert. Go to the Audiworld site for more info. good luck!
*waaah*
http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/geneva/highlights2.shtml
Yeah those rubber around the 17" sport rims are of 45 profile and I wouldn't dare to drive them in half of the roads here in Chicago. Don't want to get them warped and get me crying.
Prices: MMM.....well here in Chicago I bought my 1.8T last day of Feb at 3% over invoice. Of course cost of living and demand/supply is different in all parts of the USA, you could well start from there. The several things my dealer pointed out in order to get a good deal was, buy at the last day of the month, get the 5-speed instead of Tiptronic (he said more people likes Tiptronic instead of the 5-speed with the 1.8T, something that I can't totally agree), and of course get the cars that are already on the lot. My 1.8T is 5-speed, has Quattro Celebration pkg, Bose and Cold Weather pkg. MSRP is $29,040, got my deal at $26,700, and the invoice is around $26,000.
Rear legroom: Yup I read the same thing as you, scirocco. The car is bigger on the outside (like by an inch), but rear legroom won't improve, or maybe a few millimeters. Yeah I agree, as my coworker has an A4 2.8, that the only complaints we have is the small rear legroom. That maybe the only thing a Passat is better than an A4.
Bast2, I almost had a similar "adventure" as you when I walked into one of the Chicagoland's 7 Audi dealerships. Well one guy actually greeted me and took me out to the cars, but he's very impatient when he heard me saying "I'm still considering all the alternatives.". Eventually he handed me over to my salesman and he's a whole lot better. Other people also had bad experiences with the dealership I bought it at, so I guess it all depends on the specific salespeople you get when you walk in. Of course you can try other dealerships but then to me, if I could get a great deal, I don't care which one I buy it from. Afterall I can bring my car for service somewhere. I just need to face the bad dealership once, but I service my vehicle for at least a few years :>
Hey Scirocco, there's a similar Audi club in Seattle.....go to http://seattle.audiworld.com. I can't wait till that Spring Drive :>
As I mentioned earlier, the A4 1.8T Quattro I was looking at included celebration, cold weather and ESP (I think). What I failed to include was the fact that it also had Tiptronic. Sticker was $30,700, quote given was $1600 over invoice ($29,300). Mulifat mentioned I should be able to get in the car for $27,500, but I'm assuming that price was for manual, not automatic.
Unfortunately, there's only 2 Audi dealers here in WI that I'm aware of. Of course, I'm in Milwaukee, so the trip to Chicago wouldn't be completely out of the question if it turned out to be worth my time. Any suggestions for best bets in the Chicago area? And, is it possible to e-mail for a quote?
LaukOdg: glad to hear I'm not alone in my experience. Again, it WAS a Saturday, perhaps that made a difference, though, I don't see why it should. I guess I'll try the dealer to the north (the metropolous of Sheboygan, WI) and see what they have to say.
Also...disappointing to hear about the lack of room in the back seat for the 2002.
JB
That said, I had the same deal haggling that I had with Honda, just with more polished salespeople.
mmcbride-
BTW, if you are considering Prestige Imports in Lakewood, be aware that you need to schedule your regular maintenance at least ONE MONTH in advance. They are that backed up that far. Their sales force is very pleasant, though.
If you are still test driving, consider going to McDonald for that. They allowed me to take the A4 home for the night and drive it to work the next day. Stunned me, actually.
Mike-- I think that would be an excellent negotiating item... when the dealer won't budge any further on price then "throw in the 16" rims and it's a deal... I'll buy the car from you today" Although they'll probably have to have in stock some "take-offs" from another buyer that up-graded to better rims and tires for it to work because they definitely won't order them for you--that would cost them too much. ...just a thought,lol.
cc12359-- no, it's not a matter of a choice now. The 17" rims are what you will get now if you order the sports pkg. The older model 2001's are the only ones with the 16" rims. The old sports pkg was msrp'd at $750 and the new one on the 2001.5 models with the 17's is priced at $950. Now this is for the Quattro. I believe the fwd model still has the sport pkg with 16" rims. In the LA area, I guess you guys have a lot of fwd cars to choose from. Up here they don't even ship them without Quattro unless you special order it from the factory.
Matt-- did you say that you have xenons? I can't remember.
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html"
Yeah that won't be a bad idea to get the dealer to put on 16" rims if they won't go down any further. But again they need to get all-season radials on those rims and yup if they need to special order them, they won't do that for free. Yeah I just don't understand why Audi won't put 16" on the A4 as standard alloys and all of a sudden slap some 17" to the sports pkg. Maybe they will do that in 2002 models???
bast2, I went to school up there in Madison, WI and there's the Zimbrick dealership there that also sells Audi although I know they won't go down significantly on prices but it will worth a check. For Chicagoland's Audi dealerships, I got mine at Schaumburg Audi, ask for Mike Burden if you do go there. I have also heard good comments for Continental Audi in Aurora, and I have visited there and they were very professional and friendly, but they won't cut me a deal as good as Schaumburg Audi.
2. Don't want to pay extra for snow tires
3. Don't want to pay extra for storage (I rent)
4. Don't want to pay extra for new snow tires (cuz they run out of tread pretty easily)
We got snow in Chicago but I'd say less than 1% of the people got snow tires. You are out of the game when there's ice on the ground anyways.
Thank You.
and less than 1%?? you're kidding! with Chicago's brutal winters, I'd suspect that it would be more than that!
Can anyone help me find a dealership out west that sells A4's with out quattro. It's frusterating I like the A4 but have had a horrible time with the salesmen in Oregon. They don't carry the front wheel drive version of the A4 and have even told me its a bad idea to buy the fwd A4 because it doesnt hold its resale value. Can anyone confirm or deny this claim? If anyone knows of a dealership within a few states of Oregon that sells fwd A4 I would really appreciate. Thanks
P.S. Car & Driver did extensive tests on this a while back and found that using dedicated winter tires make more of an improvement than four or all wheel drive by themselves. This is my experience too as I used to run Pirelli snow tires on a front drive car (Tauras SHO) with very good results - much better traction than the A4 quattro with the summer Dunlops. Of course the combination of snow tires and all wheel drive is the best and safest.
I think that it's very important to think of a good winter tire as a WINTER tire - not just a snow tire. The compounds used are formulated not just for snow, but for use on ice, to better withstand road chemicals, and most significantly, to perform better in cold temperatures.
I am not saying winter tires perform worse than stock plus AWD. What I'm saying is, the snow tires are not THAT much better than the stock tires. Rephrase that, I would swap out those stock Goodyear Eagle LS tires soon and put on some Michelin MXV4's. They are not snow tires for sure, but worked well on my Accord in the snow.
The Celebration package is usually coupled with the Quattro system ($1,750) and it's being called the Quattro Celebration Package ($1,750 + $500 = $2,250). It's well worth the money.
Audibuyer1, you might want to check out the looks of the 2002 A4's. If you are shooting for the current 2.8 model (190hp), the 2002 2.8 models will have a bigger engine of 3.0L and making 222hp. I would say it's more expensive on the '02 model for sure, but just a suggestion.
You might want to try out the 1.8T model too. It has 170hp and some people here said it's actually 180hp and Audi is just trying to make the TT 180hp owners feel better that they buy a faster car than an A4.
I got mine (2001 A4 1.8TQM) about 2.5 months ago and I got mine at 2.5 to 3% over invoice. So it's doable.
I would say the resale value on A4's is better than the Passat's. Warranty and scheduled maintenance is halved in the VW than Audi's and that will save you a thousand or two. Also Audi is a luxury brand and VW is not (although VW is not that far behind in the portrait they are creating).
I am looking to buy June/July a 1.8T Quattro with Tip and Celebration pkg. Are the dealers still taking orders for 2001 A4s. I understand the 2002 A4 is around the corner, when is the official date, are they already taking orders for the '02? If I can't order, I guess I will have to choose from dealers' stocks or try carorder.com ir similar services. What is the most common color combination/options on most 1.8T Quattros. I think the '02 is quite nice, but the '01 has a certain classic elegance to it which should wear out fine. Besides, the equipment levels on the last run '01 A4a can't be ignored. :-) I would appreciate some info, also on how willing dealers will deal thsi summer on the '01s since they are outgoing and all. Thank you in advance.
Donny
Pricing should be generous, and we had a lot of discussions here and on another discussion on "2001 A4 1.8T Pricing". You can check that out. I got mine 2 months ago (01' A4 1.8T Quattro 5-spd w/leatherette, Celebration, Bose, cold weather) at 2.5% to 3% over invoice.
1) Is 3% over invoice a resonable expectation in the southeast?
2) One of the negatives, as reported by a quite a few people in this forum, is the lack of leg room in the A4 (especially as compared to the 2001.5 Passat). I've heard that the 2002 will address that but I havent seen any specifics. Does anyone know if it will match the Passat in rear seating specifications.?
3) Has anyone run into any flak in getting their "free" maintanance done at the "local" dealer when you bought it from somewhare else?
4) Any ballpark figures on how much Audi typically raises their prices each year. This may be a unique situation with the increase in engine size (going to 3.0 l) and vehicle size.
Is there a company that makes parts for Audi that I might be able to have installed at the dealership? Dad's tricked-out Bimmer is still under warranty because all the work was done by the dealer's technicians.
Yeah, I know, I should wait until I have the car to worry about stuff like this...
About the 02 pricing, I heard both views, either more expensive due to a new model year and more improvements, or less expensive due to attracting people to the new styling and maybe 1st year glitches.
Yeah I wish Audi has something like Dinan which does BMW upgrades and won't void the warranty.
During the warranty, although both cars had many problems, I wasn't concerned, because the dealer always loaned me a car while they had mine. Both cars required thousands of dollars of work as soon as they came out of maintenence. Audi of North America did pay for the head gasket my 100S needed, but wouldn't help with the $4000 transmission rebuild at 60,000 mi.
My A4 needed $2000 worth of work at 39,000 mi., two weeks after the warranty expired - the dealer said all the problems had occurred suddenly after my last scheduled service. Audi split the brake job with me ($800), but told me my worn ball bearings were a "wear item."
If you plan to keep these cars after the warranty, it helps to have an unlimited supply of extra cash you would like to give to your mechanic. Audi does all this as part of their marketing plan, which is to keep selling new cars.
My complaint is not with the fun factor of driving, or the high cost of individual repairs, which comes with buying a German car. But I've decided to learn my lesson and buy something built to last a little longer.
yeah usually all the expensive fixes occur right after the warranty period. Kinda ironic, isn't it.
I am curious, though, what will you buy that is built to last a little longer. My neighbor had a Porsche, my other neighbor a Mercedes E class -- the Mercedes had a power seat problem seeminly the day after the warranty expired -- $1,400! Don't get me started on the Porsche Maintenance Costs (according to my neighbor). My other neighbor had a Chrysler Sebring -- just out of warranty and two $1,000 repair bills, one for an oil leak and the other to replace the ABS braking.
Most mfg's -- Audi does, I am fairly certain -- offer a "factory" warranty extension that can be purchased from "Audi" that increases the factory warranty from 50,000 miles to 75,000 miles -- even the service can be added if you want. Perhaps this bit of insurance would make sense.
You know, I watch that PBS show Motor Week and they have a segment called Goss' Garage wherein he states that "any modern car" should go 150,000 without any major repair. I am 49 years old and know dozens, probably hundreds, of people -- I don't know anyone who has kept a car 150,000 or even close without very very significant repair bills -- so siginificant that I lease my cars for 30 months or 49,000 miles or time to replace the second set of tires, whichever comes first (the tires on Audis generally are good for 20 - 25,000 miles with sport suspensions and the summer tires that generally come with the sport packages).
Most of my friends drive cars that cost between $30,000 and $70,000 -- and it plain just doesn't seem to make a bit of difference, except that sometimes the "features" on the high dollar car, like full-color satellite navigation on my buddies 7 series Bimmer, don't exist on the lesser dollar car. But their A/C systems seem to "go" about the same time and have relatively similar costs, the batteries go, etc. Yes, the high performance tires do cost a lot more than the H rated tires, but even then it is often possible to replace those high buck Z rated tires with lower dollar H's in the same size and aspect ratio. If you are aware of the performance differences and are willing to accept them.
Please tell me what car will be more reliable -- in this broad class, especially.
I remain hopeful, but skeptical. My 24 Audis since 1978 have all been good, some almost flawless, one used more oil than gasoline, but mostly my Audis have met or exceeded my expectations, including in maintenance, especially when I compare them with my friends and neighbors cars -- I mean, we all have our "out of warranty" horror stories.
Thanks.
If you need to go for a $30k to $70k Japanese car, the Lexus GS430 could be a good choice. I would bet my $$ on its reliability and value.
I'm just crossing my fingers that I don't need to put excessive $$ on this A4 1.8T. I am prepared to pay more for German cars but hopefully nothing outrageous.
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/website/calculator/tirecalculator.html
Can't wait till Friday when I get my windows tinted :>
As long as you keep churning your cars every three years (and now, even four with Audi's new warranty), I would say Audis are fabulous - I love the handling and the fun factor, and I think the new 2.7 turbo is their best yet, in whichever car you get it.
As I approach retirement, I'm thinking in terms of getting something that will outlast the warranty and be reasonable to repair. I no longer have the need to break the posted speed limit or take the s curves at max speed to see if I can do it with minimum roll, or to pass an American car on the curve.
Every Ford I've bought since the early 90's has been reliable in the way we used to think of it - 100,000 without significant need for repair. Ditto Toyotas and Hondas that I or my friends have had. Except the Toyotas needed several exhaust systems. But still, nowhere near Audi's prices. Our Windstar's only problem was the need for two head gaskets out of warranty (the famous 3.8) - Ford paid for both, no questions asked. So right now I'm thinking about the Honda Accord EX leather - a nice, reliable car that will do what I need. My only point in posting on the Audi board was that it is very expensive to plan to keep them after the warranty, and the dealer has a "see no evil" approach to scheduled maintenance. If I were planning to keep the churn going, I'd be in an Audi 2.7. (either S4 or A6) For the next four years. Then I'd swallow the 20k depreciation and move on.
My neigbor with the E class has loved the car and hated the bills.
I dunno, my Porsche neighbor sold it and told me it was "good riddence" -- he bought a Chevy Suburban -- he is in his late 30's has one child. Go figure.
Other neighbor has Dodge Durango -- lots of problems, all of them fixed for free, likes the car. Had a Jeep Grand, didn't like it as much.
As I drive up and down my street (which has maybe 15 houses on it) there are three Dodge Intrepids, two of them were Tauris replacements. We'll see what comes next. We have four Audis on our street, too (my wife and I have 2 of them) -- the A6 2.8q is always filthy and has a ton of brake dust. This generally means that people hate their cars -- in my observation.
There is also an A4 1.8t which is a "repeat."
Becuase of these message boards, I often strike up conversations with my friends and neighbors to find out their opinions and experiences. Thus far, Honda seems to come up as a nice reliable car. But, with the exception of my Opthamologist neighbor, who has the Honda 2000 Roadster (and he is very pleased with it), any attempts on my part to elicit comments that would indicate "passion" for the Honda or even Toyota vehicles only gets me blank looks.
Four of us in my Company have Audis and one is shopping for one (a 2002 A6 2.7T methinks) -- each one of these folks RAVE about their cars.
I think I am coming to the anecdotal impression that nice reliable cars "do nothing" for their owners except get them trouble free from point a to point b, while these pesky "exciting" mostly European Cars bring out the passion and "car lust" in their owner/drivers. One man, age 31, says "I'll never have a station wagon or mini van, I want a pulse when I drive."
Again, go figure -- as Mom says "to each his own."
Thanks again.
Just asking....:-) Thanks....
I read with much interest here and in other Euro-sedan boards about exorbitant costs of repairs on out-of-warranty vehicles. I don't understand why many individuals intent on keeping their cars for years, plop the cash for the ext.warranty... I hear sooooo little mention of ext warranties.
Now that we have moved to our new platform, we no longer have the requirement to stop and restart discussions after the numbers of posts exceed a certain limit. To keep from confusing our newer members down the road, we are going through the discussion list bit by bit and dropping the "extension indicators" associated with some of our long-running discussions.
Since this will be the permanent home for discussion of these vehicles, I have removed the "(Continued)" from the title of this discussion and altered the archived version to distinguish it from this one.
Please continue....
Pat
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