Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I was reading somewhere that the 2002 A4 will have a new CVT (continuously variable transmission) for front wheel drive models. Have any of you experienced driving a CVT?..I am clueless about this type of tranny, is it better than Tiptronic?...is it just a "smarter" automatic. What's the low down??.

    Thanks

    Speed
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    From what I've heard, you can already get it on the A6, and it's been so popular that almost nobody gets the regular automatic (Tip).
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    "A continuously variable transmission is an automatic that can select any desired drive ratio within its operating range. Unlike a traditional three, four, or five-speed automatic transmission, the CVT is an "infinite speed" transmission. It continually selects an optimum overall drive ratio between engine and drive wheels for all operating conditions, whether accelerating or cruising. Unlike conventional automatics, there are no perceptible shifts. During maximum acceleration, the drive ratio is adjusted to maintain peak engine horsepower. At a constant vehicle speed, the ratio is set to maintain an optimum balance of fuel economy and driveability. A CVT provides smooth, fast acceleration and high cruising efficiency with the convenience of an automatic transmission."
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    A4 a distant second behind the 325. Boy I like that!! Let's put it this way, if I got plenty of $$ to spare, I would pick the Bimmer (heck I'll take a E46 M3 please). BUT.....for the thousands I save on the A4, I'm greatly satisfied with it.

    You drove the 2002 A4 2.5TD, MarkCincinnatti?? Where did you do that? In Germany? Is AoA going to import the TD version of 2002 A4?

    For CVT, Honda's Civic HX, and Honda and Toyota's hybrid vehicles have been using them, I think Civic HX has been offering that since 96 or 97, but don't quote me on that. It's as the definition in Msg #851, that it doesn't have a set of gears. Instead it uses a chain-like mechanism to infinitely adjust the gear ratio. Good thing is, you get infinite number of gears, so power comes right away when you depress the gas, and not like the traditional automatic that you need to wait for the tranny to kick down. The low thing is, it's not that widely used so I don't know the reliability of it.

    For the record, I still prefer manual instead of all the other trannys, being the fact that I can apply engine braking when I need to and not use the brake so much and did I mention I hate the brake dust on the rims????

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -thinking about chipping and so much more :>
  • tarunntarunn Member Posts: 8
    I never really understood the real attraction of engine braking. You are basically putting extra stress on the engine versus the cheaper brake pads. Anyone care to comment?
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    At least in FWD models....only quattros get the Tips
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    A big benefit of engine braking is, with proper engagement of the clutch, it slows the vehicle down without sliding everywhere on snow/slush. With an automatic tranny and no ABS, braking on snow is a delicate job of balancing the braking power vs tire traction.

    Plus, braking is not just about the pads. Rotors and the whole braking mechanism are used.

    Engines are designed to spin anyway, so why not put them to work? Tarunn, do you know how to stick shift? Just curious, cuz one time I tried to explain the same subject to my friend who doesn't know how to stick shift and she never quite got it.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    So what does the FWD get?? Only manual? Or automatic without Tiptronic?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Billy-- You know, there might be some merit to tarunn's comment becausue I remember reading an article by a well known automotive technician somewhere, in fact I remember reading it in several places, and now I can't remember who it was (if I can remember where I read it I'll post it later) but he disputed this common myth that the best and most efficient way to slow down a car is NOT by engine braking but by actually using the brakes. He was emphasizing that it is a common misconception that you are saving brake linings and pads by downshifting to slow the car down. He goes on to say that the price of replacing a clutch is a much greater expense than replacing brakes. From what I can remember, he says that the proper way to come to a stop is just leave it in the gear you are driving in and then disengage the clutch just before the engine starts to lug. He said that downshifting is permissible when preparing to slow for a turn so that it will not be necessary to shift in the middle of a turn. Now don't get me wrong, I don't know whether I quite agree with him or not. I've been driving manual transmission cars, trucks and buses for many years and have always downshifted when I knew that the brakes may be overburdened but I seldom downshift when coming to a stop in city driving. Every car I have owned has been a manual and I've never replaced a clutch (this is partly due to the fact that I do a lot of shifting without the clutch--a skill that necessitates much practice especially because of the syncros in todays modern gearboxes but I developed that skill from driving trucks and buses that had no syncros and required double-clutching... so to save my left leg from cramping up because of the heavily sprung clutches, I practiced and practiced shifting without the clutch) and the brakes on every one of my cars have lasted at least 75,000 stop-and-go city type miles. My 4Runner has 65,000 miles and still has plenty of its original pads left. So I guess the point of my diatribe here, lol, is to not downshift unnecessarily and to compromise "sport" driving and econonmical driving so that both your clutch and your brakes will receive the maximum amount of usable wear.

    As for the fwd 2002, as I understand it, both the Multitronic (cvt) and the Tiptronic will be available as options. Obviously the Multitronic will cost more though. I'm not really positive about this and it may be possible that the Tiptronic may not be available on the fwd at all but only may come with either a manual or Multitronic. But one thing we know for sure is that the Multitronic will not be available on the Quattro.

    Oh!--I forgot to answer your question from a few days ago... yes, I have been thinking how fun a short-throw shifter would be! Let me know what you decide to do with that and maybe I'll follow you.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Mark-- forgot to thank you the other day for not letting me feel like a *moron* for not opting for the sport pkg... lol. I apprecitate your well written comments and reasoning.
  • crud_meridiancrud_meridian Member Posts: 16
    only one, on the driver's side, while up front you get two. what am i missing here? i can't see the reasoning. anyone know?
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    FWDs come standard with 5 speed manual or CVT automatics....quattros get the tiptronics.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I attended for the fourth time the Audi Driving Experience in Seefeld Austria (by way of Munich and an all day excursion to the Holy City: Ingolstadt.)

    The event is held in January of each year and allows you to drive someone else's Audi on a huge rectangle of Ice under the supervision of Audi Instructors. Even [the famous and legendary] Walter Rohlr (spelling?) treated us to "thrill rides" on the ice track.

    This year, a first -- a TD car and a 2002 to boot! I rode on both the ice and on the public roads and I drove the car on the ice. Frankly I couldn't tell the car was a diesel -- by sound, performance or smell. The torque was ample, it felt stonger than any A4 I've ever been in excluding the S4.

    It was bigger and quieter, too -- and a notch or two more upscale than the current A4.

    The car was a mostly "top of the range" 2.5 TDI -- all the toys, some of them even had the Sat Nav -- but it was in German. They were equipped with four studded Blizakk tires and alloy wheels -- we were never in the car at any speed (on ice) above 100kph, mostly a maximum of 50kph. On the highway, I saw the speedo go to about 120+kph for the short drive from the ice field to the hotel.

    I had stopped buying A4's because of the back seat issue -- I currently own a 225hpTT coupe and an A6 4.2 w/sport -- both 2001's. This A4 was slightly larger and would probably be just enough so that when the S4 comes out, I will seriously consider moving to it from the A6. The S6 will be quite tempting, if it ever gets here in non-Avant form, tho.

    So many Audi's so little time . . .
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Dang I wish I can do the same thing as you did.....only if I got the $$ and time and opportunity.

    Well scirocco, I agree excessive shifting hurts the clutch and engine, but definitely as you said, if I am at a high speed, I will brake it to about 40 and downshift to 4th gear to slow me down, instead of using the brakes all the way and put the gear in neutral. But shifting without using clutch??? Geez, I have done something like putting it into neutral from gear without using the clutch, but putting it in gear WITHOUT a clutch? Dang, I don't want to try it and frankly I would like to see you use it in your A4.....won't the gears grind???

    Can't wait until this Sunday when we have an Audi picnic at a Chicagoland west suburb dealership :>

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -thinking about chipping and so much more :>
  • banker74banker74 Member Posts: 26
    As I've heard it explained, it's that if you had two Rear fog lights it would constantly appear that you were breaking (difference in brightness may not be enough). Not sure whether that's correct, but it makes sense to me.

    2001.5 Siver 1.8TQ w/ Sport Package and Opal Interior - 3007 miles and loving every one of them!!!!
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    Talked with Mike. Didnt like the quote he gave me on a 39 month A4 1.8T 5 speed lease..over $500 with nothing down..I thought these guys were reasonable..what gives? Do I need to speak with someone else?
    Tom
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    lol... yeah, Billy, as a matter of fact, the Audi's gearbox lends itself to very easily (well, relatively) shift without using the clutch. My old Scirocco had a similar feel so I right away felt at home with the Audi's shifter feel. You have to match the engine rpm's exactly (and I mean *exactly*!) with the road speed of the car but once you get the hang of it, the shifter just slides in gear like butter. It takes a lot of concentration at first but like I say, it gets easier with practice. Upshifts are more difficult (sometimes referred to as "speed shifting") but downshifts just seem so natural after awhile. So far I've only missed one shift with the new Audi and the gears did grind slightly but the VW/Audis seem to have remarkable syncros so the grind was very subtle and did not feel like it hurt anything. The syncros in my Toyota are not so friendly and when I miss a shift in that vehicle, it does sound kind of obnoxious. When I'm in a hurry, I will usually shift using the clutch because, as I have said, it still does take a bit of concentration to shift smoothly without the clutch. I actually drove home from work tonight without using the clutch at all except for once when I had to come to a complete stop for a red light. At stop signs, I can usually put it in first gear without the clutch at about one or two mph. Now obviously I am not recommending this technique to anyone--"please do not try this at home!!" lol. I just do it to save clutch wear and for the challenge of it and again, I am used to it from the old "double-clutching" days of driving older inter-city type buses that made it mandatory that you match the engine rpm's to the speed of the vehicle when shifting even using the clutch.

    Oh, before I forget, I'm interested in fitting the E-spec (European specification) tail lamp assembly to my car. I really want amber turn signals in the rear. I believe amber is safer and more visible and I don't understand why Audis use red turn signals in the rear in the US when all European cars are required to have them. Of course, all VW's have amber but Audi doesn't use them in any of their models anymore here in the US (although I've heard that the 2002 A4 will have amber turn signals). I've found a guy on the Audiworld site that evidently sells them so I'll contact him when I get the chance. Any comments on this??
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The cost of the Audi Driving school is 2000 DM which is about $1,000 -- all expenses except airfare and one night in the hotel are included and it is a five-star experience.


    From Cincinnat, in January,it is less expensive to fly to Europe (by $100's of dollars) than to fly the 270 mile trip to Chicago. Money should not be the determining factor on this experience.


    One night in the hotel in Munich is $240.00 -- all other nights are included, as is all transportation and your return trip to the Airport. Even your drinks (during dinner) are included in the price (but oddly enough Coke or Pepsi is an extra charge -- I went for the red wine myself and fruit juice for breakfast and lunch.)


    There is a two year waiting list and the August prior to your year (which now would be 2003, you are required to pay $500 which is non refunable). You can purchase your plane tickets 11 months in advance and get the best rate possible there too. You must be a member of the Quattro Club of America ($40.00) and own an Audi quattro or at least be in the process of getting one.


    This is one of the "cheapest" vacations I have ever had -- as I said, I have done it four times in a row -- we are going again in 2003, in fact. I wrote an article about the experience which is on the quattro club web site at http://www.quattroclubusa.org/ under "news and events March 26, 2001."


    Drive it like you live.

  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Foglights: I agree with what banker74 said, that people will think you are braking all the time with 2 rear fog lights. From what some of the salespeople, they said it's because in Germany, people pass you always on the left and in foggy weather, it's easier to distinguish which side is your left side.

    Purduealum: Well I mean Mike gave me a good deal over there, but of course that depends on a car-to-car basis. A good deal on mine (I didn't lease or finance) may not be the same for everybody. I guess it'd be a good starting point at Schaumburg Audi. My coworker also bought hers there and she got hers at a reasonable price too. One of the guys got a deal there too and suggested faxing/calling different dealers at the same time and let them do the fighting and you sit there drooling and thinking of your sweet new Audi.

    Scirocco, man, I would love to try the clutchless shifting, if it really can save some clutch.....BUT.....I'm not going to try it on my own :> Yeah I don't know why Audi doesn't put amber signals on the rear. Same thing as the new Hondas like Civics and Acura CL's, WHY NOT? I mean, maybe Audi and Honda try to make their cars look like American cars.

    Ohhh that's you, MarkCincinnatti.....yeah I like that experience you had in Deutschland. Yeah I'm not surprised that the list is 2 years long....mmm maybe I should bring this up to my girlfriend :>

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -thinking about chipping and so much more :>
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Just got backed into. I want to scream. 4 days old.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    I got sideswiped by a 1990 Camry when mine was 3 days old. I saw that stupid car pulling out of a strip mall, couldn't brake cuz it's way too close, I swirved to the left lane, floored the gas, my [non-permissible content removed] saved by Quattro, but she still put some nasty 8-12 inches long black bumper marks, a 1"x1" light dent on my right side of the rear bumper and scratches on my wheel. Repaired bumper and replaced wheel for $860. It could have been a lot worse, being the fact that I will broadside into the Camry at 35mph if I didn't swirve to the left to avoid her.

    She jumped out of her Camry and said, "Geez I'm so sorry. It could have been a lot worse. It looks like a new car, isn't it?".....Let me tell ya, I wanna punch her in the nose and I said, "You $%^&$%^&, it's only THREE DAYS OLD!!!! And yes it could have been a lot worse, I almost killed ya if you drive like that."

    Gotta watch out for those stupid drivers ignoring a bright silver sedan coming and still want to take a piece of it. I can understand their jealousy, but this is way too much.

    Sorry to hear that, mmcbride. Just go after them and get it fixed. I'm sure there's no structural damage to your darling.
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    A couple of months ago I was sitting at a red light, waiting for it to change. So was the lady in the red Grand Cherokee right behind me. But for some reason, just when the light turns green, she decides to accelerate right into my back bumper and trunk - all of a sudden I hear and feel a totally unexpected KA-BOOM! and my neck snaps backwards at impact. I'm OK, I get out of the car, go back, survey the damage and then look her in the eye and ask, "What the hell was THAT???" She was very apologetic, and I quickly calmed down but I just HATE stupid-[non-permissible content removed] drivers like that - and I HATE getting even my 3 year old A4 dented and scratched - up until then it was PERFECT! I've since gotten it fixed and it looks like new again, but you never know how the new paint will hold up over the long run...All I can say is take it to the best, most exclusive body shop in your area and insist on a perfect repair.

    Good luck!

    '98.5 A4 2.8Q Aluminum Silver w/Tip, Sport & all options except Trip Computer
    '01 allroad 2.7T Atlas Grey w/Tip/Conv/Prem/Bose/SR
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    I mean ok sometimes the visibility is bad and stuff and they can't see you.....or the road conditions are bad.....but it's just no excuse for a bright sunny day when that stupid Camry pulled out from the strip mall without seeing me coming.....or in JBaumgart's case when the other driver was just behind you and thinking she got the pole position and she can accelerate right after the light turns green??

    C'mon people, FOCUS on driving and stop chatting, using the phone, putting on make-up, etc..

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -thinking about chipping and so much more :>
  • ebnkebnk Member Posts: 8
    After shopping for different cars for quite a long time, I finally decided on an '01.5 A4. The only problem, and I'm hoping it's not, is that I almost missed the cut-off for this model year. The dealer says that she's 99% sure there won't be an issue changing the order at this late stage, but I'm a little nervous! The dealer couldn't find the car that I wanted anywhere in the northeast, so I had to order one. The car is as follows:

    2001.5 A4 Quattro, 1.8T w/5spd manual
    Laser Red w/Black Leatherette
    Celebration Sport Pkg.
    Cold Weather Pkg.
    ESP
    Quattro Sport Pkg w/17" wheels
    Xenon

    I'm hoping there won't be a problem getting this car so late in the year?!?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Eben-- hah, too bad you're not here in the northwest. A local dealer here has had one in stock for months because it seems that nobody evidently wants laser red. I think it's equipped exactly that way yours is but could possibly have the 2001.0 sport pkg. (16's)

    I don't know what the exact cutoff date is to order 2001's but I have heard that dealers are now taking orders for the 2002's. I guess you'll just have to rely on your dealer's assurances as to how much of a chance you'll have in actually getting the car you want. good luck--hope you're successful!

    Lol! ...just read your profile! Going from shopping for a Camaro to buying an A4??? That's quite a switch, isn't it? You're definitely making the smarter choice, IMO. :P
  • nitpickernitpicker Member Posts: 89
    For what it's worth, a posting on AudiWorld says a dealer in the Boston area (Pass & Weisz) says no problem ordering this month.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Karen-- never did get the chance to ask you what color you decided to get? ...and what part of the country are you located?--reason I ask is that 7.5% over invoice seems high for anywhere other than here in Washington state where my research has found has the highest A4 prices in the country. That's about what I was quoted when originally shopping for my A4 but finally was able to get one for about 5.1% over invoice. That was still quite a bit more than what people in the mid-west, east coast and southwest are/were paying but I think fairly good for around here.

    btw, I'm considering possibly replacing my 4Runner with a Forester. Although I don't particularly like its looks, I agree with you about its reliability, safety and roominess. But even if I do get one, I know I'll look forward to driving my A4 much more than the Forester--lol!

    And I don't "think" you are going to love your A4, I KNOW you are!
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Only 3 hours away..... :> Better wash my darling before showing up.....too darn bad the weather isn't that nice (overcast with possibility of showers/thunderstorms).

    Anyhow, yeah ebnk, I will check with the dealer hosting the event in Chicagoland and see when the cutoff order date is for the 2001.5's. When I bought mine in Feb, the dealer claimed the new ones will show up in showrooms in about Sept/Oct this year, so figure 16 weeks lead time and we have May/June. So yeah, kinda close but you should still have some time, I'd think.

    Geez Forrester instead of 4Runner, Scirocco? Mmmmm I thought you will say Allroad instead of 4Runner, but yeah the Allroad is a little bit pricey. You should have got an A4/S4 Avant, then your problem is solved :> Maybe you should get a Subaru WRX wagon.....I test drove the sedan and man, it's fun to drive, although on the long term, you might get fed up with the kinda loud engine roars.

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -thinking about chipping and so much more :>
  • nitpickernitpicker Member Posts: 89
    Yeah, 7.5% seemed a bit steep but was comparable to what other people said they'd paid at the local (Louisville) dealership. After checking on this site and AudiWorld, I figured that the national norm seemed to be 4.5% to 6.5% over invoice, with $1500 being a pretty typical figure. I paid between $1500 and $2000 (don't remember the exact figure). Your 5.1% sounds like a nice deal, btw. Normally I'd pull out all the stops to find a great deal anywhere, but my husband works for the chamber of commerce so I felt obliged to patronize a local dealership. I could have gotten a better deal by buying something off the lot, but none of the 1.8Ts on the lot had exactly what I wanted. So in exchange for my, um, generosity, I hope the dealership is generous with its customer service. :)

    I opted for the silver/onyx cloth combo but wasn't crazy about any of the exterior colors. Wish the A4 had been available in a true dark red -- or dark racing green, for that matter. Of the reds, laser seemed too loud, hibiscus seemed too purple, India seemed too orange. That was my only disappointment about the car, though; I'm still VERY psyched about the car overall.
  • shrikantshrikant Member Posts: 5
    Hi,
    I test drove A4 without a Quattro and enjoyed the excellent ride quality. I almost made my decision to go for an A4-1.8T without a Quattro.

    The only point that concerned me a lot was the rear seat leg room. It seems that rear seat passengers might be able to manage only short rides. I got an impression that seating comfort could be an issue for the rear passengers ( e.g. 5ft.10 inch tall person!). Also 2 adults in the rear passenger seat with a child seat is likely to be an issue.

    Does anyone have any experience/comments about this?

    -Sri
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    See pictures and video of the 2002 Audi A4 by following the link on the left sidebar of this page. Here is a quote: "(The 2002 Audi A4 sedan) is more sharply styled than before, with clear glass headlights, dual exhaust and a high waistline being this car's key identifiers."

    Take a look and let us know what you think.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Sri-- Yes, the A4's rear seat is notoriously cramped. It's the main issue why a lot of people pass on the A4. But since I'm fairly short (and if the front passenger is also short), the rear seat leg room isn't that bad. I've had people over 6' in the back and they were realatively comfortable but if the driver and front passenger are over 6', the rear seat leg room becomes non-existent. I can't comment on the child seat issue but there have been several discussions on it on this forum in the past. Sounds like you've already made up your mind about going with fwd but if you live in the northern part of the country, remember, resale value diminishes greatly compared to Quattro. Here in the northwest, they don't even ship the fwd's unless they are special ordered.

    Karen-- lol, I'm sure you'll get excellent service from your local dealer! Dealers always resent those that chisel them down on price too much and tend not to give those customers first rate service when something goes wrong; according to what various sales reps have posted here on Edmunds anyway. So why didn't you consider an Avant? or did you order an Avant? ...couldn't quite tell by your post of last week. Yeah, I also wanted a dark red and actually liked the hibiscus because it has a pearl finish which makes it look different as the lighting conditions change. Hibiscus was actually my first choice and probably would have chosen that color had I factory ordered it. In some respects though, I think I'm going to like silver because its tendency not to show dirt and blemishes/scratches in the paint as easily as darker colors. I also had a silver VW once and it had to be the best paint job I've experienced on a car. So I think we'll both enjoy our silver A4's ...and btw, I'm so jealous! ...those sport seats your ordered ;) --you'll really enjoy those! I sat in one and sure wished they came in the leatherette.

    Billy-- no no, I'm not considering trading in my A4 for a Forester, lol. I currently have an old 4Runner that I've had quite a few offers for so I'm considering maybe selling it and getting something else to haul around stuff in. I didn't really seriously consider an Avant b/c it's too nice to really haul stuff in and yes!, I'd love to have an Allroad!--our local paper just had a write-up on it in Friday's paper and I was drooling!--but $50,000!?? yikes!! --no way would I want to haul stuff around in a vehicle like that, let alone taking it off-road--lol! and dang, yeah, the more and more I read of the WRX the more I want one! I'd love to hear and don't think I'd ever get tired of that sweet sound the engine makes--if it's anywhere near the sound the the TV commercial depicts, lol!! It's still a little too small to haul stuff in but hmmmm, maybe not *rubs chin* --I'll let you know as things progress (jeez, an A4 and a WRX station wagon in my garage--sounds inticing!). So how was the Continental event? Let us know if you gathered any new or exciting info!

    Pat-- thanx for the video!
  • nitpickernitpicker Member Posts: 89
    Scirocco22, no, I decided not to get an Avant, partly because of the extra $$ and partly because once I drove the sedan, I couldn't imagine liking any vehicle better. The Avant was tempting, though: I do lots of landscaping, and that baby would have held so many plants! (Just kidding -- you're right about using the Avant for hauling! Looks like I'll be borrowing my parents' minivan!)

    By the way, yeah, the pearl paint on the hibiscus is really nice. It was a tough decision. One reason I finally decided on silver was because it's supposed to be less likely to show dirt/scratches. Had hoped to get a less common color, but hey, at least I'll be in good company.
  • shrikantshrikant Member Posts: 5
    Hi Scirocco22 !

    Thanks for the info and the tip about the resale value. I leave in NJ and it is manageable without a Quattro(my other car does not have a FWD). I think that Quattro makes the car slightly sluggish (one can feel this in the 2000 1.8T -150HP drive train). However this may no be very evident with the enhancement to 170HP.

    I have almost made up my mind to go for the 1.8T. I will definitely consider the Quattro factor again. Just after driving the 1.8T I took a test ride of the Passat 2.8 GLS and that's a great car too (ride + aesthetics). Still I feel that why go for a Passat when I can buy an A4 with more character associated to it?

    -Shri
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Shri-- Quattro isn't exclusively just for better traction in the snow and wet pavement, it also greatly enhances handling performance even on dry pavement. To paraphrase a comment I read over at AudiWorld: "An Audi without Quattro????!!! doh!!!" Yes, it does add weight to the car (around 250lbs) but like you said, with the 170hp engine (actually, dyno tested closer to 180hp, again refer to previous posts on this forum), it has plenty of power; for my needs, anyway. I was considering chipping mine but now I don't know. The more I drive it the more I feel that the engine is more than enough for my needs--I don't drag race with anybody and don't know why or where I would need a car that does 0-60 in less than 7 sec. or 8 sec for that matter (Audi's own figures rate the Quattro manual at 7.8 seconds). Sure, it would be nice to have more power but realistically, when is the average "Joe" going to need a vehicle that goes 0-60 in anything less than around 7 seconds? (Joe = male that doesn't have the need to display outwardly his macho ego or could be secure enough with with his own self-esteem that he could control an over-abundance of testosterone ...man, I hope I won't be flamed for that comment--lol). And yes, I too test drove a Passat and found the same things to be true that Karen (nitpicker) did: just a little too "cushy" of a ride and steering that was just a little vague--not much worse but the A4 just felt *right* --but as I stated before, I'm finding just a tad more body roll than I expected and tires that do not quite match the grip on dry pavement that the Quattro provides but that could be easily overcome by ordering the sport package. Let us know if you want to discuss the rundown of the pros and cons of the A4 vrs. the Passat and I'm sure we can help you out with that! I think there used to be a forum on that subject but I don't seem to see it anymore. Obviously, a lot of us posting on this forum are pro A4 so let us know if you have any other questions.

    Karen-- lol, aww--you bet!! ;)
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    OK guys, it's final....the 1.8T actually has 180hp instead of 170. Reason is because they don't want to piss off the Audi TT owners who have 180hp (claimed) on their engine, and also for tax issues. Just as the Audi S4 engine, which actually has 265hp instead of 250hp.

    About the 2001.5 order date, if you guys want one (shrikant), better order one soon, or pick out one from the dealer's lot. The dealer won't say too much about the deadline, but hinted it should be soon before they start to order 2002's A4 sedans for their lots. And you know, once Audi gets the new styling integrated into their production lines, it's just a matter of time before they completely switch over to the new body styling. I guess I don't hate the new styling as I first saw it, but still I like the current styling in mine MUCH better.

    The event was a blast and there got to be over 35 cars there. Dealer provided food and drinks and raffle prizes, and we owners furnish all the gossips and admire all the performance upgrades on the other cars. It was funny when some potential Audi buyers drove in thinking they'll check out some stock cars when they saw a whole variety of upgraded Audi's. Bet Continental Audi out here in Naperville, IL was happy that we showcased our cars :>

    Oh by the way, shrikant, the rear seat is cramped, but not really worse than other players in the same league like the BMW 3-series.

    Nitpicker/Scirocco, yup I agree, buying an Avant and hauling dirty/awkward shape objects might really hurt the car. I guess we should get a Caprice Classic wagon for like $500 and it'll just do that perfectly.

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -SERIOUSLY thinking about chipping and a whole lot more :>
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    and may I just add one thing for Shri.....the VW warranty is as bad as you can get nowadays in the new car market. Less than half of what Audi offers, i.e. 4yr-50k warranty and 4yr-50k scheduled maintenance included, vs 2yr-24k of the above for the VW. German cars, unfortunately (touch wood), needs more attention in terms of $$ on the long run than Japanese cars.

    I haven't test driven the VW before getting the A4 but the warranty itself already scares me away, BIG TIME. But I could imagine VW as the "Everyday Joe's car", just like what VW means in German, the People's Automobile, versus Audi, which I view as the performance and heritage division of VW.

    Hehe Scirocco, I'm not going to burn you on that "Normal Joe" one, but you better watch your back....somebody might do it eventually :>
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    a Caprice Classic wagon???!!!! hahahahahahahaha!!
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    lmao!! yeah, I guess I'd better tiptoe around here now... I'll always be looking over my shoulder :P
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    All they don't do well are that they drive like a boat, they steer like a boat, they are LONGER than a boat, they are as wide as a city bus, and heck, their suspension makes you think you are riding in a boat. All they do well is, you can stuff tons of crap in it. Watch out for the A8 wagon when Audi finally produces something that can rival its "appetite"......

    (Alright people, don't panic, I am just kidding about the A8 wagon.....so don't trade in those Caprice's yet)
  • schwitzer1schwitzer1 Member Posts: 64
    Just got a call from the dealer...I'll be picking up my spankin' new brilliant yellow 1.8 in about an hour and a half!

    The keyboard has not the expression I need to share this moment.

    Louie
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Hope that pisses you off enough to take some of your anxiety away :>

    Alright, just kidding, Louie!

    Congratulations and have fun driving it......just don't hit anything over 3000rpm and break it in for the first 1000 miles.....I know it's the most difficult thing in the world (at least I think so), but it's well worth it :>

    Now volunteer to drive every time you and your coworkers go out for lunch!

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
    -slightly back off from chipping, so more $$ to do a lot more :>
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Boy, I'm in trouble. I've been sticking (kind of) to the 'not over 4000, and nothing at full throttle', but 3000 just might kill me.

    How much was your tint? I'm leasing, so I don't want to spend any more than $100-150. If I can't get a quality tint job for that, I'll pass on it.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    When I took delivery of my car in March, as he was giving me the orientation, the salesperson told me "don't be afraid to run it right up close to the red-line during your break-in period." I said: "huh?????? --you're kidding!!" he said: No, seriously, nowadays this is how new engines are broken in ...that's the way race car engines are broken in now. Just don't sustain 6,000rpm+ continuously but it's perfectly ok to run it right up there while accelerating just before changing gears." I told him "no way!!! there's no way I'm going to be doing that to a new engine during the first 1,000 miles! --I don't think I can do that!" He kept reiterating that it's the proper thing to do and not to worry about it and to not pay too much attention to the owners' manual--that I'd be doing myself and the car a favor in the long run by not babying the engine too much during the break-in period. He said that straining the engine by pulling a trailer, lugging the rpm's, constant full-throttle acceleration or sustained rpm's above 4,500 might harm it but not the technique he prescribed. So I took the car and while driving home, I noticed how easy the engine revs right up almost to 6,000 rpm while accelerating and I knew then that there would be no way I could keep the rpm's under 3,000 for the next 1,000 miles--it just wouldn't be practical. I mean, it's REALLY hard to do! So anyway, later I talked to an acquaintance of mine that builds racing engines and asked him to comment on my Audi salesperson's advice. He told me that it is actually true! that the proper way to break-in todays modern engines is to let them touch red-line occasionally. He gave me some technical mumbo-jumbo about valves not seating themselves correctly on aluminum heads or something of the sort (I'm no mechanical engineer, obviously)if this isn't done. So actually he's telling me that the salesman was right! hmmm, well, so I haven't really been paying too much attention to the traditional break-in rules... I'm just having fun driving and occasionally lettin' her rip! So do you think that I'm going to have troubles later on down the line with this engine because I'm not babying it during the first 1,000 miles? I personally don't think so. I mean, look at some practical examples that come to mind: dealer demos-- dealerships let people take cars with 15 miles on the odometer out on test drives and encourage them to "see what she'll do." rental cars-- rental cars are put into service brand new and do you think that the first person that takes them out is asked to keep the rpm's under 3,000? I've heard that rental car engines are pretty good with even high mileage on them because they are serviced and maintained so regularly. And again "I've heard" one of the key factors in engine longevity is just that, regualar maintenance!

    So any comments on break-in periods?

    --btw, I now have just over 500 miles on it and she seems to be running smoother everyday.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    But for the next 500 miles or so, I'll stay in the 4000-4500 range, max. No redline runs for me until after 1000 miles. I might be wrong, but better safe than sorry.
  • bast2bast2 Member Posts: 52
    Shri: Glad to hear someone's in the same boat as I am. I'm grinding my teeth over the Passat/A4 choice, but I think I've got'r down to the A4. The rear legroom is really the only thing holding us back. The thought of a child seat and my wife sitting in the back has us concerned, but based on discussions in this forum (I think #653, not sure) sounds like it should all be possible. Loved the Passat for looks and room, but no folding rear seats and bad warranty. A4 was sportier and better looking, aside from much better warranty,trunk space (Passat 4Motion loses 1/3 of trunk, and folding rear seats.

    I think I'm A4 bound!

    JB
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    I guess it's just like the myth that whether you should or you should not warm up your engine before you go in cold weather.....I don't let it warm up, cuz I'm pretty damn sure if you idle it, the oil pressure and the cold temperature will hurt the engine. The same is said in almost all car manufacturer's literature (if they mention it in their manuals, that is).

    As for the break-in period, ok I'm not a MECHANICAL engineer, but I'm a chemical engineer. So mechanical engineers please correct me if my $0.02 is off. Break-in periods let the mechanical parts to slowly "melt" together, even today's advanced ways to fabricate mechanical parts can't guarantee 100% match up between the parts. That's another reason why they advise not to use the cruise control too much during the first 1000 miles, cuz that will exert the same force over and over and the parts might melt at the wrong place if that happens. That's also why I don't redline it (for sure) when I break-in my car. You are basically testing the extremes of the parts when they're not 100% in harmony with each other. While the 3000rpm is just something I used, honestly I have run it up to 4000 to 4500 rpm once or twice in that first 1000 miles, and hey guys, that's why I said it's so damn hard to keep the rpm's low cuz it's so easy to rev it up there. Scirocco, I don't object (or agree) to your mechanic friend said as how the racing engines got broken-in, but our engines are far from race engines. They will have smaller tolerances (meaning the parts will match each other very well) and a lot toughter in those punishing environment than ours. Our engines could not survive in punishing environments like redlining them for a few hours continuously. Of course that's why those cars cost like half a million a piece and ours is cheaper :> You get my meaning.....all engines are built differently.

    Honestly, it's total BS when the salesman told you to ignore the guidelines Audi recommends. When you have a problem with the car, Audi will come back and say it's because you didn't follow their guidelines and the salesman will laugh cuz his service dept just got a new service order.

    Oh yeah the tint. I got mine at Shaded Days in Libertyville (north burbs of chicagoland) for $225. Ask for Mark and he'll take good care of your car. He's the owner and insisted on perfection that he actually took off 1 of the tints after he and his assistant completed and redid it cuz of a few tiny bubbles. Honestly $225 is a very good deal, considering they use Lluma sheets and one complete sheet on the rear window (some places use 2 separate sheets). I used 35% tints (meaning only 35% of light can go thru) all around. It's legal to tint whatever intensity you want except the windshield and the driver's and passenger's side windows. It looks very great.

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Member Posts: 563
    Hehe bast2, don't blame us for "helping" you to make that decision :> But hey, welcome to the Audi family......it's just a matter of time now right? :>

    Yeah if VW offers 4Motion on every Passat as an option, the A4 might become obsolete.....I have heard people saying they want an A4 just because they can get Quattro without getting the top trim in the Passat to get 4Motion and because they don't want to sacrifice the trunk space. It's a relatively big trunk in the A4 for the size of the car.

    And the weird thing is, I found the rear legroom to be growing every time I visit it. Hehe maybe I got away from the break-in period and I start to adjust my pilot's seat to the more upright position to drive more.....emm aggresively :> 2,650 miles in 2.25 months.....hehe bet y'all are so jealous that I can get over 4,000rpm :>

    Drive on!!!

    Billy
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQMBC/35% Lluma tint
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    *waaaaaaaaah* ...so I guess my engine will fall apart right after the warranty expires 'cause I took it over 3,000 rpm when I had less than 100 miles on it. oh well, maybe I'll trade it in for an S4 before that so I can avoid all that grief. ;0) ...well, your point is well taken, Billy, if you're an engineer, you have much more inherent technical knowledge than I do so I'll have to respect your comments more than my own (which now seems,lame) reasoning. I didn't think what the salesman was telling me could be the whole story; it just didn't sound right. But I really don't think I've ruined my engine, however, by taking it up in the 5,500 area. I hope not anyway, but I guess only time will tell. All the other new cars I've had I've pretty much babied for the first 500 but was a little more daring with this car because of what the dealer said. This is actually the freeist revving engine that I've experienced so far so it just seems so natural to rev it up there--I haven't given it anywhere near full-throttle yet though... whew.

    Gee, now I feel like a complete idiot--I'm really embarrassed :0(

    Ok, well, I guess I've been spending too much time here on Edmunds again so I'll attempt to bow out gracefully! lol It's been fun everyone! Good luck with your cars and future purchases!
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    It makes sense to lightly accelerate the engine to redline. I don't believe the parts are "melting" together but rather the engine is doing a "final machining" operation. A ridge could be created in the cylinder by reving the engine only part of the way during breakin. When you finally do rev it all the way the ring will encounter that ridge and result in greater wear than would have occured by letting it machine that portion of the bore during the break in.

    Idling a cold engine certainly would hurt it due to oil pressure. If anything revving it up when it's cold will create the highest oil pressures that the engine will see. I think the best policy when an engine is cold is to drive it with a light throttle until it is fully warmed up. This is particularly true for turbo engines. The primarly reason is to minimize the thermal gradient that the engine sees.
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