Older Acura TLs

1violinist · October 2003

Talon95: thanks again! I don't think linking to a site to make a point should be considered promotion, but that's ok!

Uncledavid: thanks for your feedback about navigation screen. It's helpful to know every detail about a car before venturing to buy it, especially for 35 grand!

As for ride quality, I guess it's a matter of reaching the sweet point between comfort and handling, and your willingness to compromise one for the other.

jmichaelp · October 2003

If the basic invoice price can't be negotiated, and holdback perhaps not what about advertising fees and dealer prep?

Wjat about any Honda/Acura loyalty discounts?

1violinist - that's the tact I may take i.e. asking for accessories instead.

Alternatively, since I need a car now, I may buy a clunker to drive through the end of the year when hopefully some deals will come out. All of the other car makers are offering deals on the 2004's already!

kahunah · October 2003

Don't waste your time and money on a clunker. Any savings you may get through an incentive will be chewed up when you're stranded on a highway and miss an important meeting. If you're going to get the car anyway, get it now and negotiate the accessories. Remember, for what the TL has to offer, the car is very well priced compared to it's competitors. Besides, you're not going to see any deals offered on this car for quite some time.

jboucheb · October 2003

Yea right, the dealer might get upset if I bring that up? What?! I ain't *that* desperate.

It's not enough that we're getting raped for not budging on the MSRP, they have the nerve to try and keep an additional grand? WOW. Add up the difference in Invoice and MSRP, and the holdback, that's too much of a profit. I don't care how competitively priced this vehicle is and all the standard options it comes with, if I really want it, what I should just bow my head down and walk into the dealership like that? Wait, why don't they just put hand-cuffs on me and duct tape on my mouth, and just show me where to sign... you get my drift.

I know that each and every dealer is trying to rake it in b/c of all the loss of $$$ on the transmission failures, but c'mon people. There has got to be some bargaining room....I don't see people wrapped around my local Acura dealership jumping off a roof to get a car. Sure there might be a waiting list, but if a dealership only gets 5 or so cars in a batch every few months, that's another issue.

We'll see what happens. Wheel locks, splash guards, trunk mat...that's kissing my a!#. Those kind of small things don't mean the same as $$$ off the final price I'd pay for a car. Again, we'll see what happens. Laters.

bodble2 · October 2003

don't kill yourself worrying about how much the dealer makes. Yea, they'll probably make a lot on the TL initially if demand is anywhere near what is anticipated. But the flip side is they also assume all the risks associated with the business. And when they lose money, I don't give them money to help them out. So it works both ways. If demand drops, they'll start dealing, holdback and all, without much prodding. But until if and when that happens, they are entitled to try to make as much $$ as market conditions allow. If I like the car enough, I'd be more than willing to pay the going rate.

msf2 · October 2003

I find it interesting that the Edmund's TMV for pricing in my area for the Lexus ES 330 is $31,900. While the 2004 TL in my area goes at MSRP of $33,200. I realize the current hype over the new TL (can't wait to test drive) but does this make sense? Would anyone who knows these two cars care to comment? Maybe I need to know more about the Lexus.

jmichaelp · October 2003

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/20/pf/autos/asian_incentives/index.h- tm

"They [Asian automakers] started offering some cash on '04s before they even hit the ground, especially for those that haven't changed the design much," said Joe Cashen, director of CarsDirect. "In years I've been doing this, I've never seen them offering this much cash this soon. Normally the offers came after the cars had been on [dealer] lots for several months."

Honda Motor Co. remains the one major Asian automaker not offering any cash-back deals.

iwse · October 2003

I believe the comparably equipped ES330 without NAV comes in at about $35K delivered. If you read the ES330 boards, current discounts are ranging from $1K-$2K off MSRP, so you're now in the same ballpark between the two cars at about $33K each, give or take small change. At that price, you get the base ES330 sound system, which pales in comparison to either the Lexus upgrade system or the TL sound system.

There are few slight differences in equipment between these two cars, but the primary difference is in the overall driving experience. I drove both this past weekend. The Lexus is very smooth, quiet and more luxurious. With the upgraded 3.3L engine in the ES, it has very ample acceleration at all speeds, but the overall road handling isn't near that of the TL. The upgraded ES330 engine really draws these two models very close together...making it a tougher choice than ever...so you just have to take your pick.

stlgasman · October 2003

I just don't like the styling of the ES. I actually like the exterior of the old generation ES better. To me there wasn't much comparison for 30K front wheel drive sedans.

kahunah · October 2003

...Lexus has just managed to catch up to the previous generation base TL.

rbr · October 2003

I am making a similar comparison for a purchase in November. I think its more of an apples to oranges comparison though for the reasons that iwse already very aptly stated. Best way to decide is to make up your own mind what characteristics are more important to you -- I'm still figuring that our for myself.
My wife will probably decide for me (smile).

torontotl · October 2003

I personally prefer the last generation styling of the ES to the current generation. I find to my eye that the new ES just looks too fat to me. The new TL on the other had is much sportier and sleek.

jrock65 · October 2003

I've listened to both the TL and ES330 standard (non-ML) sound system. I am a "moderate" audiophile, and with stereo CD's, I thought the TL's stereo was just a tad bit better than the ES's. Not really that different. Of course, only the TL can play DVD-Audio, but there aren't that many of those available.

The ES is more plush and luxurious feeling and has a more comfy ride, the TL is more sporty. Lexus dealers usually have better service (better loaner cars, etc.)

You can't really go "wrong" with either one. It's generally a buyer's market these days. Just five years ago, you'd have had to pay $45k for cars with the features, safety, and power of these $33k cars.

ruski · October 2003

530i looks like a Pontiac?

talon95 · October 2003

"Honda Motor Co. remains the one major Asian automaker not offering any cash-back deals."

I'm a little unclear as to your point... are you praising Honda for not having to resort to extreme incentives to remain competitive saleswise, or criticizing them for not offering cash-back incentives?

varmint · October 2003

Talon - I think he's just reporting.

gregory28 · October 2003

Some folks brought this topic up recently. I saw 7 TL's in a line on a dealer lot today with different interior and exterior colors. The more I look at the camel, the less I like it. I realize this is a totally personal decision. I think it's a good idea to see the exterior/interior colors of the car that you want on the lot and not rely on the internet or a brochure. The camel has a strong orangeish look and IMO it takes away from the fake wood trim- which I like a great deal. This leaves the parchment which I feel is a nice interior look; fake wood and tan. For folks that like a more contemporary look the black or quartz interior is the way to go.

The black and parchment is such a nice combination. It tough to keep black cars clean though. Do you folks think the green or red exteriors would be any easier to keep clean? Would they hide the swirls any better than a black car would? On a scale of 1-10, 10 being black and 1 being silver on a scale of exterior maintenance, where do you think the various colors lie?

By the way, the sales guy recommended a website that sells after market wood stick on pieces to give more of a luxurious look. Apparently the after market wood is actually real wood. I see that they don't have 2004 TL applications available yet. I realize the car afficionados are familiar with these websites so this is for the other folks who come here. I'd be happy to provide the link if anyone wants it.

jmichaelp · October 2003

As varmint stated, that info. was just pulled from the article. The intent was that Honda/Acura will probably offer incentives soon - more than likely right after I buy one of these cars!

gregory28 · October 2003

Per the salesman- consider the source- transmission troubles to the Acuras were confined to one factory. Acura no longer uses that vendor, so none of the 2004 TL's transmissions were built there. He said that the troubles were confined to a small percentage of cars. The thing is, if you buy the lemon, you'll get lemonade 100% of the time.

kahunah · October 2003

Apples and oranges is right. Buyer incentives or not, the ES330 is way more expensive than the TL when you add up all the options required to make a fair comparison. And still, you don't get the exhilarating ride the TL offers, not to mention a superb 270 hp engine with optional 6-speed. For me, there is no comparison. Keep in mind what 'markian' said: See message #1286.

bodble2 · October 2003

I share gregory's opinion that the camel is a little too yellow. The parchment blends in much better with the wood grain trim.

The new BMW 5-series looking similar to Pontiac? The Gran Prix? Umm...I dunno...maybe...especially if you squint. Not really that far-fetched. Pontiac has toned down their styling "excitement".

kahunah · October 2003

I think what Acura may have attempted with the camel interior is a more (dare I say it?) Ferrari looking upholstery. I test drove a Blue on Camel TL and that's what the interior color reminded me of. Check out this interior photo of the 360 Modena:

http://www.ferrari.com/ferrari/images/360_modena/210x130/detail_i- nterior.jpg

jrock65 · October 2003

kahunah,

Go to lexus.com and build an ES330 as close as possible to a base TL, and it comes out to about $35,100 (base $32,300 plus premium package $2,800 (cd changer, hid, vsc, heated seats, wood and leather steering wheel)). Street price of this car is $33,000. Street price of the TL is $33,000.

Some people like a tighter ride (TL), some people like a more plush, smoother ride (ES330). It's a matter of personal preference. Neither is necessarily "better" than the other.

The TL is definitely faster than the ES, probably about a second faster 0 to 60.

kahunah · October 2003

...but in Canada the ES330 starts at $43,800! And, you would need at least $5,000 in options to somewhat match the TL. And get this, if you order the Premium Package with Navigation you're up to $53,000 Canadian!

Not including accessories, the most you could pay for a 2004 TL in Canada is $44,000. That's a $9,000 difference! These figures are MSLP and you can probably get some kind of a deal with the Lexus...but still!

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/vehicles/configurato- r/BA30GP2004/configurator.jsp?model=BA30GP&year=2004

uncledavid · October 2003

that you guys are comparing the price on a model that just hit the dealer, and is being priced to reflect pent up demand.

In a year, the new IS330 and GS will be out, the new Passat will be around, and the RL will be the Acura flavor of the month. Then, you'll see discounting and the TL will be the better deal.

95gt · October 2003

Ray you are going to have to show some proof on that claim. Even on the ride and drives no 6-speeds were available. Everyone that has ordered one is being told a november delivery date. Please post pictures of car.

95gt · October 2003

Really the deal breaker for most people seems to be the FWD vs RWD issue. If this is not an issue it really does not make a whole lot of sense to go with the G35. at 8/10's they will handle very comparably, they are very close in acceleration. However the Acura has a hands down better interior and a lot of cool features the G35 does not (memory/bluetooth/DVD-a etc). G35 is a very sporty car that handles very well but, unless the drivetrain configuration is your sole decider go with the TL

richardgold · October 2003

I am purchasing a 2004 TL (no leases in NY). I got $500 below MSRP with little problem. Told manager I wanted $1000 below. Said car is too hot but does not want to lose my business. I looked at the dark blue and gray with quartz interior and NAV. Decided on dark gray. It will be a November delivery. Dealer said when he gets VIN we will finalize price. I owned a 99 TL and currently drive a 2002 TLS. Yes, the transmission was replaced. Since car is leased I really do not care. It's the total driving experience that counts! Looked at the G35: a tight fit compared to the TL.

gkearns56 · October 2003

95GT: Thanks for the info. Has anyone gotten a bad taste from how these Acura dealers are charging sticker and above for this car. I had a dealer tell me if I didn't like it, "some other fool" would pay sticker. Not me I said because there are too many nice cars out there that would serve the purpose. The last 2 dealers I went into were arrogant and basically said to "look elsewhere" because they are getting sticker and above. I would like any feedback on this please; thank you

jmichaelp · October 2003

My dealer quoted MSRP. I've asked for some sort of consession, but haven't heard back...

1violinist · October 2003

Uncledavid: I agree with you but the problem is that these guys don't want to wait for a week, not to mention a year! Perhaps things would be better in a couple of months after the initial rush fades out -- I guess we'll see :-)

1violinist · October 2003

Congratulations on your new TL! If you can't get the dealer to go another $500 below MSRP have him throw in a bunch of accessories worth that much, and both of you would be happy.

bodble2 · October 2003

I personally can't wait a year. I'll wait until post-Christmas when car sales traditionally drop, then see what kind of discount I can get.

fdefulvio · October 2003

As long as there are other "fools" willing to pay MSRP or higher, dealers will continue to not negotiate. The best thing that you can do is walk out. If nobody was willing to pay MSRP, the dealers would have no choice but to discount the cars. In the world of "supply and demand", the "demand", or "fools", is currently greater than the supply. Not only are they hurting themselves by paying a higher price, but they are keeping the price higher for everyone else.

jboucheb · October 2003

Alleluhia, there is a dealership that is willing to go a bit below MSRP.

Hey, which place is that in NY? Maybe I'll visit them instead of this place in NJ that won't budge.

Thanks.

gkearns56 · October 2003

fdefulvio: I have to agree with you. I walked out and almost told him to kiss %#@. The dealers wonder why people disrespect them and have a "low tolerence" for them. Not only were they smerking and telling me "some fool" will pay sticker. I wish VW's new redesigned '05 Passat was out or someone else put a car out in that segment. I would go buy it; drive it back onto their lot and tell them the can eat their car now. I just wanted to buy a new car. If you find a dealer dealing please let me know. Thanx

landru2 · October 2003

Why get all steamed up? Supply and demand not working in your favor? Just be patient. When nobody wants it anymore you'll get your discount.

jrock65 · October 2003

The G35 w/ the premium package (total MSRP $34,000, street price $31,500) has memory driver seat. The outside mirrors are not memory, however. Personally, I don't think the TL has that many useful features over the ES330 or the G35. Most people don't have many if any dvd-a discs or a bluetooth cell phone.

kfhmail · October 2003

Alot of people do not have DVD Audio now...but...if/when this catches on, you would have the ability to play one. Many people keep their cars 5, 6, 7, 8, or more years and alot of things can change in that amount of time when you are talking about electronics.

I would not buy it because of the DVD Audio, but it is a plus on my list of plus and minuses between the TL and the G35.

kahunah · October 2003

Wouldn't you be concerned that the car with your particular colour, interior, option package, etc. may be in short supply or even sold out?

According to my dealer, the delivery split is (60/20/20). That is, if only 5000 units arrive in Canada, 3000 will be Base, 1000 will be Navi and 1000 Dynamic. For me, only 1000 6MTs for all of Canada worries me. I'm ordering mine this month!

fdefulvio · October 2003

People don't have DVD-A discs or Bluetooth phones because they don't have the hardware to take advantage of it yet. The TL will help advance these technologies. How many CDs did you have before buying a CD player? I happen to have a DVD-A as well as SACD player at home, so I have several disks already. Even if I didn't have discs, I would still be interested in having the technology available in my car. Once you listen to a good quality multi-channel recording, you won't want to go back to stereo.

I don't have a Bluetooth phone because I have no use for it. If I had a car that was Bluetooth enabled, you can be sure that my next phone would have it.

Acura is helping advance these new technologies. Once other manufacturers get on board, they will really start to take off. I forget you made the statement, "why would anyone need a computer in their home?", but today, having a home computer is as common as having a toaster. DVD-A and Bluetooth are tomorrow's home computer.

king_george · October 2003

I'm tryin to make the decision between the 17 & 18" rims and i'm havin a hard time understanding the difference between the two...like what are the benefit and or sacrafices would i make by buying the 18" rims vs the 17" ones.

I don't know too much about the 18" rims/tire package that you can order with the 2004 TL......just wanted to know a few things. (please don't be annoyed because i've owned only sport utes so far and this is my first sedan so i'm still new to some concepts)

Neways 1st question if i were to get the 04 with 18" would i still get a nice ride or would the ride quality be really stiff. (i want a sporty looking & performing car but if the ride is too stiff that wouldn't be too good)

2nd question ... on the 18" how long do the tires on there last ?

3rd question.... i'm sure that tires for the 18" cost more to change but what's the average price for a 18" tire for the TL?

4th question ..... so i guess what i'm asking is it overall a good idea to order the new TL with the option rim package. (i like the look i just wanted to know if i was sacraficing too much ride quality and if the cost of tires and how often u had to change them would get too costly)

5th question .... are the 18" rims by 8" or 8.5"?

P.S. i live in Sunny So. Cal so if that makes a difference let me know.....thanx ahead of time guys i appreciate it.

George.

bodble2 · October 2003

Yea, since I'm not really that flexible on colour and equipment, there is some concern that I may have to wait a long time.

I've narrowed my decision down to Navi in White/Parchment or maybe Blue/Camel as a distant second choice. I'm betting (or hoping) that due to the rather hefty $premium for the Navi, it would not be in great demand.

dbs8 · October 2003

I listened to the Acura-supplied DVD on my test drive. I will definitely look for DVD audio once I get my car. I am sure that this will be the next "thing" in music.

I am also on a waiting list for the new Motorola V600 (bluetooth) phone. Once both of these new toys are in my life, I don't know what I'll research at work all day! Maybe I'll go for a drive!

rayainsw · October 2003

"Please post pictures of car. "
Can't do that - unless it is still there next time I am nearby - and I have a camera - and I am nearly out of film - and I have it developed soon, etc. But I did note that it had DST plates - rather than regular dealer plates - or MFR plates.
Believe it or don't.
Ir was there twice when I was at the dealership - about a week and a half apart.
- Ray
Just trying to help here . . .

uncledavid · October 2003

That is exactly what your dealer wants you to think. Get it now, and pay MSRP, or you'll never get one.

The TL is built in North America and their is solid production capability. It isn't the same situation that you have with the TSX (with small numbers being imported). Acura dealers are not going to "run out" of their bread-and-butter sedan.

If you choose not to buy now, and you wait six months until the prices come down, you'll still be able to get what you want.

BTW, I bought my TSX within the first month, and got a relatively lousy deal on it. The TSX is still selling for close to MSRP where I live.

torontotl · October 2003

I think that especially in Canada where we haven't had any navi equipped Acuras before, there will be a big demand initially when the TL first comes out. Alot of car buffs like us want the newest with all the coolest gadgets in it. Thus more demand initially. I would bet that over time, the demand would decrease for the navi, esp. in Canada because they don't have that much of the country mapped out yet.

jrock65 · October 2003

Don't get me wrong. It's great that the TL has these features. But to use the dvd-a, you need to get more expensive dvd-a discs. To use the bluetooth, you're limiting yourself to a narrow list of phone/carriers, whereas a non-bluetooth phone might be better for that person. I personally don't find these features that compelling.

Plus, I don't think DVD-A will catch on in the car as fast as people say it will. Remember, in a car, DVD-A sound is not good for the rear passengers. Also, CD's are cheaper.

Bluetooth is being crowded out by other standards for wireless broadband. While it's certainly possible that bluetooth will be "the" standard for use of the cell phone in a car, it's hard to say that it will be the future at this point.

In the end, it's a matter of personal choice and how much you get out of these features, and if you're willing to get the items necessary to enjoy these features.

automophile · October 2003

As the wheels get larger, the tires' sidewalls get smaller, so that the outside diameter of the tires stays the same. This is necessary to keep the car's gearing and speedometer the same, etc.

As the sidewalls get smaller, they get stiffer. The result is better handling, and also a stiffer ride, since there is now less "cushion". There is no way to have both. Also, the tires with thinner sidewalls are usually more expensive and wear out faster.

If you REALLY need the handling, or are that hung up on the looks, get the 18s, but be aware that it will cost you in ride and extra tire costs for as long as you own the car.

mhewitt · October 2003

Its sort of a culture/age kind of thing. On my way to my ES test drive I saw 4 ES's on the road and the drivers' mean age must have been in the early 70's. Now I'm getting there only too fast, but not yet, and the TL is much more fun to drive and Hendrix sounds a lot better on the sound system. Perhaps a ES will be the next car.

Older Acura TLs

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