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And my comment regarding the Camry like ES330 wasn't intended to be disparaging of the Toyota nameplate. I'm not "brand" motivated by either Lexus or Acura. In fact, I'll claim right now that the "Honda" S2000 is the most technologically advanced, best built car by Honda/Acura or Toytoa/Lexus. I didn't give a hoot that it was labeled a Honda when I made my purchase decision, and I wouldn't have cared if the TL was made by Honda. My issue with the ES330 is more with the fact that Lexus has taken driving boredom to perfection. I couldn't bring myself to buy a Toyota Camry in 1995 (instead of a Maxima SE) not because it wasn't as reliable as a Stanley crescent wrench, but because it just lacked any remote hint of the road feel or handling dynamics. And, for a lot of the driving public, that's just fine.
For the record, the Lexus GX470 is one of the leading candidates for our SUV replacement. So I'm not anti-Lexus by any means. But I'm not sure what your agenda is relative to the TL. If you enjoy the way an ES330 drives, or a fan of the looks of a Jaguar S type, that's your business. But I don't think you are going to convince too many TL buyers that we should share those opinions.
P.S. I got the charcoal/aluminum interior. No fake wood worries here.
Now, I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm not spending over $30k on a car that may or may not have a bad tranny problem that can't be fixed by the manufacturers patch. Bye, Bye Lexus.
Infiniti's I35 was sporty enough but looked a little old ladyish and lacked many of the features the TL provides. Plus, it is being discontinued. The G35 was definitely sporty enough but the interior looked awful. If they redesign the interior they may have a great automobile. So, bye bye Infiniti.
That left only Acura TL. I'm not one who needs a brand name on my car. I just want a reliable car that is solidly built for a reasonable price. TL delivered all that and more. I plan to keep on enjoying it for years to come.
not to say TL ain't good. Will take Honda/Toyota products any day for peace of mind. I have start to form an impression(thru various sources, but only personal, mind you), that while both of them are in the same level in turns of reliability (quality control), Honda seems tend to use cheaper parts comparatively, and it shows up years down the road.
No flame intended, just an exchange of opinion or impression.
Your earlier comments sure made you sound more 'brand-motivated' than you really are. Why'd you need to care about Lexus vs. Toyota or Ford vs. Jag. Why don't you just comment on Lexus or Jaguar on their own right? Jaguar actually had quite a nice showing on 2004's JDP IQS (ranked higher than Honda/Acura). Surprise right?
As I said I think TL covers many grounds well in this price range, and while it may not be the best on any of them, it's close on just about all of them -- a feat on its own right.
Even the Lexus GX470 has had quite a few initial bugs with transmission clunks, etc. But I'm under the impression that they are fixing them and I would sure be more confident in a Lexus lasting 100k+ miles without major problems than I would in a Cadillac Escalade.
Again, not to repeat, but the ES330 and Toyota Camry are both very nice cars in their respective segments, they just don't ofer any driving excitement whatsoever for me. Regarding the Jaguar/Ford comment, I guess that was a little snobbish. It's just sad to think that in order for Jaguar to improve correct their finicky, unreliable reputation, they sold out to Ford. Kind of like a pro athlete going to Richard Simmons to help him get in better shape. BMW has done an admirable job of improving product quality on their own (5-series still holds Consumer Reports record for highest rating ever given). And they haven't lost what makes BMW cars a real pleasure to drive in the process.
Again, I have to ask, do you really find the ES330 and Jaguar S or X type to your driving tastes? If so, perhaps we are just stuck trying to debate a Venus vs. Mars dilemma. When I spend $30k, $40k, or $50k+ on a car, I'd prefer to have something that is a crisp handling, good road feel, fun to drive car. I know many others looking for the next cure for insomnia. I'm just not one of them.
Audi to VM, Volvo and Jag to Ford, Chrys to MB, Nissan to.... who knows. Dog eat dog world and hard to tell it's a lift or drag sometimes. There're maybe good reasons why Toyota, Honda, and BMW are not messing with all that.
On the rides of ES vs. TL it's almost like comparing looks. I don't think there's a rule that says which one is supposed to be better or worse. It's a matter of preference. Lexus went extra miles to make cars so smooth and quiet that steering wheel does not feel any vibration when idle, so much so that with its quietness very often you wonder if the engine is still turned on. To some, that's amazing and luxurious, and worth every penny. To others, it's just plain boring. As to road feel, I'd like that at times too (on flat road please). But don't give me too much of that over potholes. Now if Lexus can make pothole felt like flat surface, that'd be even more amazing, or, boring as well, I presume.
I've taken a double-take on cars such as the SC430, but only because it's so ugly.
- Yes, the A4 with a manual is quicker to 20 or 30 MPH than the TL with an automatic.
- The A4 is slightly smoother since it has no torque steer. The is mild with the TL, not a problem.
- The TL audio is definitely better.
Other things I like about the TL: larger size, better crash test results, quicker acceleration (other than from a standing start).
For those that have the option, I can wholeheartedly recommend the 6 speed manual. As does my service manager who put over 225,000 miles on a Legend GS 6-speed that never so much as needed a new clutch.
TIA
The Ultra Sport Audi A4 had navigation lite, but it seemed exactly dead on accuracy wise to the Acura. The interior was "less fancy" but seemed, overall, of a higher level of quality and fit and finish (subjective, but the Audi was real wood, at least). The Bose system in the Audi was nothing compared with the DVD-audio in the Acura.
The handling and driving of the Audi, however, was significantly its strong suit. The torque steer of the Acura was so severe that we had to fight the steering wheel during all but the tamest and least aggressive maneuvers.
Both cars have merit. The Acura, sitting still or motoring down the highway at a pleasant 80mph is a most pleasant place to be. Throw in some particularly entertaining twisties and it becomes a little too demanding. The Audi, a little more spartan, is nevertheless a comfortable chair both sitting and driving and especially when negotiating the twisties -- it is very well planted to the pavement and despite its somewhat anemic power (compared to the Acura) should be able in "the real world" to better the Acura when handling prowess is of utmost importance on all kinds of surfaces and under all kinds of coefficients of friction.
To each his/her own -- certainly. But to claim the A4 hardly compares with the TL is accurate if your meaning is to [somewhat harshly and somewhat unfairly] "dis" the Acura.
The Acura, based on what I know and what I've read would "blow the Audi A4 away" if Acura sees fit to keep the manual transmission and add the RL's AWD to the option sheet. In the mean time, the Audi is just as much a "contenda" as the Acura, any day.
Needed? Terms and costs would be greatly appreciated.
And there is this archived discussion: Armor All Protectant available for reading.
Personally I've never used Armor All but it can be a "hot button" issue here in the Town Hall, so I thought you might want to continue your research. There have been lots of thoughts about it posted around these parts.
Hope this helps.
Is this normal for the 2004 TL??
The plan that I bought was supposedly the best, called 'Platinum Plan'. It's a zero deductible, 100,000 mile or seven year coverage of everything including navigation system, wheel and tire damage etc, etc. The cost was 1495 dollars. If you dont use ths warranty your 1495 will be returned back to you at the seven year or 100,000 mile.
Just be aware of the exclusions of coverage which among a whole host of things includes water leaks, rattles, paint chipping, etc. I think these are the most likely issues one may encounter with time but these are excluded. Just buy the plan with a little pinch of salt if you know what I mean.
I am still debating whether I should or shouldnt have boght the plan! Good Luck,HK
Dealer mentioned no break in period. Drive normally. Oil/Filter changes every 3500 miles.... Any opinions?
It seems that this dealer cannot read! The ACURA owner manual says otherwise. There's usually a break-in period of at least 500 miles, preferably up to 1,000, where you vary RPM speeds and avoid revving the engine too high, etc. Oil change is usually around 5,000 unless you operate the car under "severe conditions". Just follow the manual and forget about your wise dealer! ;-)
I bought a 2004 TL after milking my 1995 Nissan Maxima SE for 153k miles. And I decided to keep it as a back-up to relocate to our second home. It still runs like new, is cosmetically good and it's overall performance is not that much behind the new TL. However, having paid $21,000 for it in 1994, I figured I got my money's worth, with less than $1,800 per year depreciation (considering I have an offer to sell it for $4,500).
I suspect your 2000 TL w/65,000 miles has a lot of life left in it. Unfortunately, it's only worth about $13,000 on trade in according to Edmunds. That makes your decision not one of necessity, but one of preference. You will be paying roughly $20,000 to upgrade from a 2000 to a 2004, not including taxes. And then you need to ask you what 2008 models will be tempting you. In my opinion, trading every 3-4 years can be expensive, but it's only money.
P.S. I only kept my "fun" car, a Honda S2000 for 2.5 years and it cost me $10,000 in depreciation, so I'm not throwing stones at anyone for following their emotions.
Anyone here have an opinion on switching to Mobil 1?? I have 153k miles on my Nissan Maxima using nothing but standard Castrol dino-oil. But my 9,000 rpm S2000 saw nothing but Mobil 1, even from the factory. The TL is a lot closer to the Maxima in engine characteristics, but I'm inclined to go with Mobil 1 if there are any benefits.
Thoughts, recommendations appreciated.
we were not even thinking about buying, but thought, what the heck....
we will get a trade in with the XG300, so that willl ease the blow....
Picking it up sunday....
My wife does this all the time. I get in the vehicle and it takes me a few minutes to realize the fan isn't adjusting speeds as it should. I don't understand why she can't just change the temperature. I asked her what she does at home if she's hot or cold and she said she changes the temperature setting on the thermostat and I said so why don't you do that in the car and leave it on auto? No answer. I gave up.
Bodble, yeah I reckon you Canadians don't know too much about the HEAT! Good thing for you the TL also comes with the seat warmers.
I stopped by my Baltimore, Maryland Acura dealer the other day to inquire about 2004 & 2005 Acura TL's. There were almost no 2004 models on the lot.
I asked the salesperson if they knew of any changes for the 2005 TL. Here are the answers that I got: No change to body, turn signal blinkers will be added to exterior mirrors, no fold down seats.
I then asked if the 2005 TL would have the XM "Direct Traffic" feature, which is a system that shows accidents, road construction, live traffic patterns and travel delays on the navigation system, available for the top 23 metro markets in the USA. This is an incredible feature that will be available on the Acura 2005 RL. The dealer had no definite answer but he did say that the RL and TL share the same navigation system.
I'm holding out for a 2005 TL model for the following reasons: 1)Hopefully this XM Direct Traffic feature will be available, 2)The 2nd reason is that I'm hoping that Acura will work the bugs out of the 2004 model, such as lots of rattles and creeks. Is the rattling problem really bad for this car? It seems like a lot of the people submitting messages to this discussion board are complaining about the rattles.
I just don't think that a $35000 car should have a lot of rattles and creeks.
I would appreciate everyone's thoughts on the above subjects.
I stopped by my Baltimore, Maryland Acura dealer the other day to inquire about 2004 & 2005 Acura TL's. There were almost no 2004 models on the lot.
I asked the salesperson if they knew of any changes for the 2005 TL. Here are the answers that I got: No change to body, turn signal blinkers will be added to exterior mirrors, no fold down seats.
I then asked if the 2005 TL would have the XM "Direct Traffic" feature, which is a system that shows accidents, road construction, live traffic patterns and travel delays on the navigation system, available for the top 23 metro markets in the USA. This is an incredible feature that will be available on the Acura 2005 RL. The dealer had no definite answer but he did say that the RL and TL share the same navigation system.
I'm holding out for a 2005 TL model for the following reasons: 1)Hopefully this XM Direct Traffic feature will be available, 2)The 2nd reason is that I'm hoping that Acura will work the bugs out of the 2004 model, such as lots of rattles and creeks. Is the rattling problem really bad for this car? It seems like a lot of the people submitting messages to this discussion board are complaining about the rattles.
I just don't think that a $35000 car should have a lot of rattles and creeks.
I would appreciate everyone's thoughts on the above subjects.