Jeep Wrangler

jefferson1964 · October 2003

That jeep looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Great Find, Have Fun Driving Her.....

smedranger · October 2003

I have returned! Ok I've been gone a while. It's sme Deb...former Cougar owner and now a Ranger owner. Til I win the lottery and can get a Jeep

Hey tomster missed everybody at Gill's tonight. Hope to see ya there this weekend.

Nice Jeep...somebody's gonna have alot of fun this winter.

Hope to come back more often...still in grad school and working too so time is limited these days.

You all have a great rest of the week and a Jeepster's paradise this weekend...plenty of mud and rocks for crawlin'

Hug your Jeeps for me

Deb aka smedranger...and others but this one's gonna stay

tsjay · October 2003

Put the top back on Thelma Jane last night and will put the doors on tonight.

We've had frost the last two nights.

Oh well, there's always next year.

Gonna hook up with Jim and see what that good lookin' red YJ of his will do at Turkey Bay in the morning! Should be a blast!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

01r1 · October 2003

Looks very nice, sure looks new. That YJ is going to be lots of fun! Be careful driving without mirrors.

-Pete

drosketer · October 2003

Wow, that YJ looks brand new. Good find Jim. Have fun at Turkey Bay and let us know how the wheelin' goes!

Andrew

bmg132 · October 2003

In addition to other safety equiptment I am required to have a tow line to drive on my beach (legally). The minimum requirements are a 14 foot length of either: 3/4" Rope, 5/16" Chain, 1-1/2"W Snatch Line (assuming this is a webbed strap of some sort) or a 1/4" braided steel cable.

I was thinking a stainless steel line would work & last best. Especially w/regards to the saltwater & air.

Any suggestions pro or con about the various line types? How about the ends of the line, are thimble loops ok or is some type of hook better?

erickpl · October 2003

Okay, I asked this on the Grand Cherokee forum, but got no real response.

How tough is it to install sway bars on a Jeep? I'm looking at the Adeco sway bars that were referenced on WJJeeps but I've also seem some in JC Whitney's catalog (rear only).

Is Adeco a decent brand?

I know, I know... you guys are gonna tell me to get quick disconnects and all that for my GC, but this is the daily driver that is usually used for snow duty, and unfortunately, no real offroading, except trails.

Any help would be appreciated.

BTW, that YJ looks great! Once the tranny is ready, it'll be rockin'!

-Paul

div2 · October 2003

That's a really nice looking Jeep, Jim. In fact, it's about the nicest YJ I've seen.

div2 · October 2003

Do you mean Addco? They were a popular aftermarket choice back when I was a yute(the 1970s). I'm assuming you want to decrease the understeer, so you'd want to fit a larger rear bar. I'm in a similar situation; my Sahara is my work/farm car as well as the Primary Escape Pod when the farm gets hit with 8"+ of snow. I'm thinking of getting a set of steel wheels and fitting them with a dedicated snow tire like the Bridgestone Winter Dueler. I could then put Pirelli Scorpion S/Ts on my Canyons for the other 8-9 months of the year. Then I'll fit some Bilstein HDs and I should be all set...:)

erickpl · October 2003

I mean Addco. I couldn't remember the spelling.

My GC really rocks and rolls even with a slight sidewind and ooh boy hold on if you hit a corner anything above a crawl.

Is it possible to just put on the 1" rear bar (up from 9/16" hollow) and not do anything on the front or does it need to be done both front and rear?

-Paul

jptj · October 2003

Jim, that's one good looking Jeep
Walt

div2 · October 2003

I'd probably get front and rear bars; You could wind up with a darty oversteering pig if the rear roll stiffness is increased too much relative to the front.

twylie · October 2003

the first thing I'd suggest is to replace teh sway bar bushings with poly ones from Eneregy suspension. I've done this on both my daily driver and the Jeep. It makes a pretty big difference in how quickly the vehicle reacts to cornering. The poly allows the sway bars to work without giving into the rubber bushings installed from the factory. The Energy bushings are about $20 a set, front or rear.

-twylie

twylie · October 2003

My choice would be to go with the nylon strap. It will hold up to the salt water without a problem and can be had for about $30. I like it because it can be wound up and tucked under the seat.

-twylie

tsjay · October 2003

Met up with good old Jim at Turkey Bay this AM, and we wheeled til about 2 PM. Jim had to go home, since he and his little woman were taking Jim's parents out for dinner tonight.

That YJ looks just as nice "in person" as it does in that pic.

Jim really enjoyed the day, and his little boy, Benjamim, seemed to be having a real good time too. Think they'll be wanting to go again soon.

I stayed on after Jim left and wheeled some more with some folks up from Franklin, Tennessee, Sam and his wife Hayden. They had a guy named Jody with them, but I have forgotten if he was just a friend or a relative. I have invited Sam to join us here in Jeep Wrangler.

Another guy joined us named Chris, and he has an XJ (Cherokee), but I don't know what year. I had wheeled with Chris a couple times before.

We had a great day, and the weather was beautiful!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

embeeduece · October 2003

Been reading old posts and following links. Am I correct that there are two types of window storage bags? 1) a rolled up bag that attatches to the roll bars and rides between them across the back of the Jeep. 2) A flat pack that goes under a seat.

Does that sound right? And are there any preferences?

Thanks.

twylie · October 2003

I've got a "lay-flat" bag that I've been using for 2.5 years. I use it to keep the windows safe/clean at the house in the summer. I guess it might fit in the rear floor, but even with the bag I have (pretty large), the rear window needs to be folded in half to fit. The bag I have works great for storage in the garage, but I don't think it's ideal for travelling in the Jeep with them.

Maybe someone here can give feedback on the roll up bags, but I would think they are a better choice if you want the windows with you. Whichever route you go, make sure you have a soft material to put between them. I have a thin cotton towel I use between my soft uppers.

Also, the biggest tip I can provide to keeping the plastic windows scratch free is to make sure they are clean before storing them. Not always easy when you're pulling them out while travelling, but will make a difference long term.

When (not if) they scratch, I recommend using Novus to get the scratches out. I need to do mine again before winter, but given some time and elbow grease, their products to a really good job on plastic. My windows are still in really great shape.

-twylie

erickpl · October 2003

Tom, glad you had fun at TB!

But I got a new problem on my TJ. It looks like there is a radiator coolant leak. At first I thought it was from the upper hose mount, but after looking some more, it appears to be coming from the "seam" at the top of the radiator (where the little strips of metal fold over the top of the radiator to apparently hold things in place. I have some pictures I'll put on Webshots if I'm unclear. What I'm trying to figure out is: is it just overfilled and nothing to worry about, is is that a place that can be repaired or should I just replace the radiator and the hoses?

If I replace, what kind of radiator should I get, aluminum or what?

You can smell the coolant when the car is cooling down in the garage. Good thing though, my valve cover reseal is holding great!

Thanks for any input. Twylie, I had planned on going with the new bushings as well, but was wondering how hard the front sway was to install. Like I said, my WJ doesn't do any serious offroading to justify quick disconnects.

-Paul

div2 · October 2003

Replace the radiator with an all metal unit. ALL plastic/aluminum radiators will eventually leak. Some shops claim that they can replace the seam gasket but I haven't had much luck with that procedure. I put a Modine unit in my Sahara and it fit perfectly and works at least as well as the OEM radiator. Note that you may also have a leak at the thermostat housing. Mine still seeps a bit even after replacing the t-stat and gasket. You can still smell the coolant but I haven't had to add any in over 12 months/12K miles. You might want to check out these sites:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/radiator/radiator-1.htm
http://www.jeepradiator.com/radiators.cfm?carmodel=wrangler

erickpl · October 2003

So, am I bettef off with an OEM radiator that has the plastic/metal build or should I go with an aftermarket? Are those radiators on jeepradiator good radiators that work as well? Div, what is the Modine unit?

If I'm noticing gunk in my overflow, should I go ahead and do the thermostat as well? I've changed it out before on my old Monte Carlo, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal (Stu's walkthrough is top notch!)

-Paul

tsjay · October 2003

I wouldn't go back with the OEM type of radiator. Heck, they are famous for the very problem you are having now. I would do what div2 said, i.e., get an all metal type of radiator.

Mac, you have any input for us on this one?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

div2 · October 2003

By all means, ditch the OEM design. Modine is a very well respected OEM/aftermarket radiator manufacturer:
http://modine.com/english/index2.php?pagecontent=markets/aftermar- ket/aftermarket.php&expand_index=4
My shop had a source for "scratch and dent" Modine radiators, so that's what we put in my Sahara. I've had no personal experience with Radiator.com but they seem to be well regarded on several of the other Jeep boards. And yes, I'd go ahead and R&R the t-stat while I was at it-and I'd do the belt(s) and hoses as well. As for coolant, I'd go with the D-C stuff; no point in taking a chance with anything else, IMNSHO.

erickpl · October 2003

I'm all for ditching the OEM radiator.

I found radiator.com has a 3 row all metal one for 199, but it has a copper core. The manufacturer is CSF. How does that compare to Modine? Can you tell I'm not wanting to mess with this again for a while?

Which would be better - a 3 row, all metal, copper core or a 2 row, all metal, aluminum core?

Keep in mind, this TJ won't see major offroading (75% road, 25% moderate off road).

-Paul

div2 · October 2003

For your purposes, the two row aluminum should be fine. That said, copper transfers heat better and a three row core is also more efficient. It's probably overkill, but it wouldn't hurt anything.

erickpl · October 2003

I thought aluminum transferred heat better.

I understand the heavy duty nature of the 3 row, but was wondering if the 3 row copper would be comparable to the 2 row aluminum.

Man I feel stupid today...

Also, which manufacturer would be better, Modina or CSF?

-Paul

tidester · October 2003

... copper transfers heat better...

Also, copper doesn't expand as much as aluminum when it is heated, i.e, there would be less thermal stress.

tidester, host

erickpl · October 2003

Then I wonder why D-C wants to charge more for their Al than their Cu ones...

Okay, so I know this is overkill, but to solve this problem for now and a lot longer, I should go with the 3 row, all metal, Cu core and replace the hoses and thermostat.

Sound good?

Sounds like a busy afternoon next Sunday and missing my Cowboys play.

-Paul

tidester · October 2003

Then I wonder why D-C wants to charge more for their Al than their Cu ones...

That's a good question since aluminum is about 25% cheaper than copper on the commodities markets.

tidester, host

comanche_aj · October 2003

i posted a message looking for off-road jeeping fans, and i got a message saying to come here and ask for the mayor and his friends...so can I talk to the mayor and his friends? about the radiator problem, i dont know much about them, but aluminum is a better conductor of heat than copper, so if there is a dispute which one to get, go aluminum. and can anyone tell me how to find interior cabin light fixtures for a cherokee/comanche? -ajjjjjjjjjjjjj

tsjay · October 2003

Hey, glad ya got steered over here to us. Welcome to Jeep Wrangler.

At work now, so this will be just a quick post. Just wanted to say hi.

Where ya from? Like to wheel that Commanche? Would be great if you are within a reasonable driving distance of Turkey Bay, where I wheel my Jeep every weekend. It's in western Kentucky.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tidester · October 2003

...but aluminum is a better conductor of heat than copper

Thermal conductivity:

Copper 400 W/m/°K

Aluminum 237 W/m/°K

tidester, host

mac24 · October 2003

Here's a repost of my post #10172 (only a couple of weeks ago).

"A three (or four or five) row radiator won't lower the temperature of your engine. What it will do is have a greater reserve of cooling capacity (assuming that it's not just three small rows in the space that the standard two normally occupy).

Think of it in the same way as replacing your standard battery with a larger one. Your electrical system won't suddenly run at 24 volts, but you'll be able to draw more deeply from it than you could with the smaller one.

So, if the three row has a greater capacity and surface area (and not all do), there's no downside to fitting one, apart from the extra cost. Actually, the standard Jeep radiator is very well specified in terms of its cooling capacity. What is not so great is its construction, with an aluminum core and crimped on top and bottom tanks. It usually leaks from these crimped joints after a few years, although the leaks are often self sealing if you leave it for a while! The construction of an aftermarket radiator, two or three row, is usually soldered brass.

Finally, follow the recommendations in the handbook for servicing the coolant system, and always use distilled water for making up the correct antifreeze mixture. Don't change the radiator cap for one of a different pressure, and don't fit a lower temperature thermostat. The Jeep engines are designed to run at a fairly high temperature and the fuel system runs open loop till then. If it runs too long like that you'll get a 'check engine' light."

erickpl · October 2003

Thanks for the refresher.

Would you recommend another of the OEM radiators of would you go with an aftermarket one? Also, would you recommend one of the all metal ones? One last thing, aluminum or copper?

I just want to make sure I replace this thing the best way I can.

-Paul

twylie · October 2003

only other thing you might want to consider is replacing the water pump since it's got 5-6 years on it. I say that without knowing how much one is from Napa or another parts store. Having owned British roadsters and then Japanese sports cars, I learned that the extra cost and effort of doing "everything at once" should be considered. Since you'll already have the coolant drained to to the t stat and radiator, the water pump is the only other wear item I can think would be simple to add to the list.

Recognize my advice here comes from owning cars that were mediorcre at best with the factory cooling or ones that had heads that would easily warp with a cooling failure.

I just checked napaonline and a new H20 pump and gasket is less than $45 total for your Jeep. Seems like cheap insurance against a down the road failure. You can keep the old pump as a spare.

Food for thought... I love spending other peoples $$$

-twylie

twylie · October 2003

On the Explorer and the TJ, the sway bar bushings were a simple job. Soak the bolts with PB Blaster for a couple of days before you plan to replace them and it shoudl make the job no more than 45 min an axle. Also, if you haven't used poly bushings before, after you apply the grease to the inside of the bushing, go back and apply more! It seems to always want a little more than I put in on first try. On the TJ, I drilled 3/4 "access holes" in the front cover that says "Jeep" so I can get my grease gun on them quickly.

The ONLY downside to these I've found is if they don't have grease fittings, you'll need to drop the mounting housing every 12-18 months to regrease the bushings. After you've done it once, you can do them again in 15 min each I bet. The Explorer fittings don't have zerks; the Jeep ones did.

I think this is a great mod for just about every vehicle I've done it on. Unless your ride already has twitchy steering, it will tighten up the turn in response when cornering or making evasive moves.

-twylie

tsjay · October 2003

OK, I hope someone can shed some light on this subject.

I have seen on another message board that Chrysler was recommending the wrong gear oil for the manual trannies for some period of time. They were specifying that GL-5 oil should be used, but the GL-5 has sulfur and will eat yellow metals, like brass, which the synchronizers are made of.

I can verify that the 97 FSM calls for GL-5 in the AX-15 and the AX-5 manual trannies, but the 01 FSM calls for GL-3 for the AX-5 tranny, which is still used in the four bangers, as I understand it. (The AX-15 has been dropped in favor of the NV3550, and this transition occurred in during the 2000 model year, with the early 00's having the AX-15s and the later ones having the NV3550s.)

I have also heard that Chrysler never admitted their mistake, and they never did a recall or anything. They just quietly changed their recommndation to GL-3 at some point.

Our buddy Jim just bought that 95 YJ with the synchronizers shot, and I wonder if the previous owner(s) had just run the recommended GL-5 oil, and it ate up the synchro's?

Mac, what do you know about this? Anyone else?

Would like to know which years Chrysler was calling for the GL-5 and when they corrected the owners manuals and FSMs.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · October 2003

You've pretty well got it covered. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case for Mullin's tranny. Use GL-3 in the AX-15 for the reasons you stated. You won't get any joy from DC on this (unless someone starts a class action lawsuit).

mullins87 · October 2003

have I been away for that long? My new job really cuts into my computer time.

Thanks everyone. I think I got very lucky to find that Jeep.

Tom, Benjamin, Sam, Hayden, Jody, Chris and I had a really good time Saturday. I hated to leave so early. Maybe this Saturday will be different. My youngest son, Barrett, has already claimed the passenger seat for the next trip.

tsjay · October 2003

Good to see ya back online! Glad you had a good time. I went BOTH days this weekend, as you knew I was supposed to do. Had another great day yesterday.

So, are we on for next Saturday???

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

div2 · October 2003

Twylie has a good point; once you've got the radiator out you might as well change the water pump-especially if your TJ has more than 5 years/60K on the clock.
As for the transmission oil, my 1999 Wrangler owners manual calls for GL-3 as well. The VERY pricey Mopar stuff.

tsjay · October 2003

Thanks! Guess they must have realized their mistake by then. Was wondering when they corrected it. I know the 97 FSM still calls for GL-5. Would like to hear from someone that has the 98 owners manual.

My bud at work has a 97 Sport, and when he went to get his tranny oil a few weeks ago at a Chrysler dealer, they gave him GL-5. Fortunately, he has not changed his tranny oil yet, so he can exchanged it or get his money back.

Thing is, he most likely has GL-5 in his tranny from the factory, and if anyone ever changed it before he bought it, they would probably have used GL-5, like is says you should in the owners manual for the 97s.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

geepers · October 2003

Boy, ain't nothing straightforward it seems. I've got a '91 YJ, AX-15 tranny. Had the first tranny fluid change done at the dealer but since then I've been putting in Valvoline 75-90 gear oil about every 30K and now have 130K on the Jeep. The bottle I JUST bought and put in says GL-5. However, an OLD bottle from maybe three years ago says GL-4 and GL-5. Same labelling otherwise.

From what I've read in other places, some brands of GL-5 might be considered safe while others aren't for yellow metals. So is the old bottle I have a different formula from the new bottle I just bought? Heck if I know. I guess to be safe I'll be doing another fluid change soon though.

For the record, I've got no tranny problems other than a bit of grind going into reverse now and then. But then I'm also no longer sure just what's been going in the tranny all those years since Valvoline seems to be pulling a fast one also.

I even read where the owner of a tranny shop has been throwing ATF in the manuals for years and claims it's just fine. This is why I try to do my own maintenance.

geepers · October 2003

Paul,

I'm sure you know this already but I'm a worrier. Lock up any pets you have when messing around with that anti-freeze. It's inevitable that I spill some and I understand it doesn't take much to poison a dog or cat. I make sure I get it good and cleaned up after I'm done before turning my dogs loose.

I replaced my radiator a couple of years ago with a Modina. Came with a lifetime warranty for what that's worth. A couple of tips, again you probably know all this. I just cut the old hoses off with a utility knife, it's really difficult to get them to pull off. I replaced hoses and thermostat but not the water pump. New hose clamps and check them after they've been on a while. I had a small leak and had to tighten up one hose clamp after about a month.

Can't you drag the TV out to the garage? What's more American than football and Jeeps?

Gary

tsjay · October 2003

Man, I'm not sure about whether certain brands of GL-5 type oil are formulated so as not to eat yellow metals or not. Seems like I HAVE heard that synthetic GL-5's are OK, since they do not have sulfur in them.

Whatever has gone into your tranny for all those miles seems to have been OK, as you have said. Maybe the fact that you have changed it every 30K has been a positive factor in that? Could it be that it takes a while for the acid to form in the GL-5 once in the transmission, and by changing it as often as you have, you have avoided the ill effects?

I would like to get the exact and complete info on this whole thing. I did a little searching on the Net last night, but didn't come up with anything.

Guess the safest thing for a guy to do would be to avoid GL-5, huh?

Maybe we could contact Valvoline or some other oil company to get some answers?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · October 2003

Hey, anyone got a good source for a new/rebuilt tranny for Jim? It's a 95 YJ with the four banger. Guess that means it's an AX-5. He's looking around locally (Mayfield, Ky), but maybe some of you guys know where he could save some money and get a real good tranny in the process?

Jim, I checked at the dealership in Madisonville yesterday for ya, and Butch, my bud in the parts department, says he does not have a listing for rebuilt AX-5s. The best he can do on a brand new one is $2200, which is a pretty nice discount, considering the list price is $2755.

Gill must have gotten a rebuilt one for his son's Jeep, since it was only $1700.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · October 2003

I was stradling this gully, but it curved to the left, and it was going uphill enough that I couldn't see past the hood. I turned the wheel a little too soon in that corner behind where Thelma Jane was located in this picture. The right side tires lost their side grip, and they slipped down into the deepest part of the gully.

I had already moved on past the worst spot by the time this pic was taken, but I had only about an inch or two of clearance between Thelma's sheet metal and the side of the gully in the worst spot. Close call!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · October 2003

I'll look in my '98 manual when I get home (I wasn't on the computer last night) about what it calls out for tranny fluid. This seems to be my month for vehicle problems - my husband went to start the Wrangler yesterday (he's home sick) and the battery was dead. This morning I'm driving to work in the Taco and the break light flickered on a couple of times. Just my luck...

twylie · October 2003

most Toyota's I've seen have a sensor on top of the brake master cyl. If the fluid level drops at all, the brake light will come on. Since it's flickering in your case, it may be just a shade low. Try topping it off and then check it each day to see if it's losing fluid somewhere. HTH.

-twylie

erickpl · October 2003

Twylie, you really are good at spending other's money!

heeh

THe belt is brand new so I'm NOT swapping that.

The water pump is something to consider, but I'll have to read up to see what is involved. I wasn't planning on doing a cooling system replacement, but it would probably be worth it.

I keep my pets inside so that isn't an issue. I will be cleaning everything up when I'm done (wiping up any spillage, then drying the floor with cat litter to pick up any residue, then cleaning THAT up once it has soaked.

Thank you to all for your input.

I have something I'd like to point you all to. I lost a friend a couple of years ago in a plane crash while flying a chase mission at Edwards Air Force Base. He left behind a wife and 3 kids. They have put together (completed) a book of his work. If you love aerial photography and military aircraft, you've undoubtedly seen his work. Please check out www.ThinAirPublishing.com.

I got my book yesterday and it is well worth it.

-Paul

01r1 · October 2003

I've been using synthetic gear oil over the years for my other cars' transmissions and took a look at the bottle. It says GL-2 - GL-5.

Can anyone explain exactly what the GL specification means? Is it an ingredient classifier, quality measurement, viscosity or combination of those?

While I don't have enough miles on my Jeep yet to do the first change, I did just do one on my Toyota. Interesting enough, they called for GL-5 in the book, even though there are brass parts in there. I guess I'll be fine with the full synth oil, but it just makes me wonder about the whole GL classification.

Thanks,
Pete

Jeep Wrangler

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