By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
-twylie
http://www.performancempg.com/Drivetrains.htm
GL = gear lube
numbers indicate level of service severity
I also found some references to the fact that certain gear parts may require certain additives or an elimination of components (i.e. limited slip diffs need "friction modifiers").
To me, it looks like GL is just the starting point and other factors come into play. The confusion continues...
-twylie
When I got to work this morning it was still too dark to see much, then I had to park in my husband's parking lot (since that is where the permit is good for) and I had to walk a mile to get to my office. Now I have to figure out where there's a parts store between the office and home (there has to be something easy to reach within the 75 miles I cover) so I can buy a battery for the Wrangler. And I don't want to be late getting home - it's an election day! As I said, not a good day for me...
BTW, I looked in my owner's manual for my '02 X 5-spd, it lists Mopar Manual Transmission Lube (P/N 04874464) as the only fluid recommended. While it does list 75W-90 GL-3, or Mopar equivalent for the 2.5L models.
Do I have to use Mopar's, or will a full synth 75W-90 GL2-GL5 gear oil work?
-Pete
What kind of mileage intervals have other people been changing their manual transmission's oil at?
Thanks,
Pete
I'd be happy changing the manual transmission fluid at 20-30,000 mile intervals after that unless there's any chance of water contamination, when you should obviously change it immediately.
That's a FANTASTIC area! Just don't get lost!
tidester, host
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
My Noble Black Steed is once again running - new battery went in with minimal problems. I found out that checking brake fluid in a parking garage is difficult - not enough light. But the Taco got me to Pep Boys and home safely.
And even better, our local gas station just lowered their price to $1.59. So perhaps the day wasn't so bad after all.
http://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/glchart.pdf
Most interesting is that GL-3 is NOT a designation that is currently in use and I don't recall seeing any of it on the shelf at the local auto parts store.
So I called the Valvoline 800 number. They get high marks for only making me punch two numbers before I got through to a live person. Asked him if their GL-5 gear oil had problems when used in transmissions with brass synchros. He said NO. Kind of what I expected him to say. But I asked again, he still said no.
This is not the first time I've heard the GL-5 yellow metal controversy. Perhaps since different brands use different additives, some are bad, and some are OK. I'm still not sure, but I'm sticking with my Valvoline GL-5 rated gear oil for now.
I put the same stuff in both diffs. Even though it says it works for limited slip, (I've got Trak-lok) I still get a noise on sharp left turns and starting headed uphill from the rear. So I hightail it down to the Jeep dealer and for about $8 get 4 oz of Mopar Limited Slip Additive. I put 2 oz of it in the rear and all seems to be well after that.
Hope this helps rather than muddies more. Please make any additions or corrections you feel are necessary. Will be most interested to hear the results of your email Tom.
You've got to read back some messages if this speel makes no sense. Or perhaps, it just makes no sense anyway.
Gary
I will definitely pass on what Valvoline says, but it is most likely gonna be the same thing they told you over the phone.
I DEFINITELY think that there is something to this GL-5 eating brass synchro's issue. Why did DC back off from recommending GL-5 to GL-3? Doubt if you could get a straight answer from them, since they would be admitting liability.
Geepers, you are probably right in saying that SOME GL-5s are formulated with sulfur and some are not. Maybe ALL GL-5s originally contained sulfur, and when the problem concerning the synchro's was discovered, they all changed their formulations to eliminate it.
This could be similar to the synthetic oil problem when it was first introduced years ago. People were having leaks, and synthetic oil got the reputation for causing leaks. The problem was fixed with additives that soften and preserve gaskets and seals, and for years now synthetic oils have not caused leaks. Unfortunately, many people still to this day will not use it, because they think it will cause leaks. So, maybe the first generation of GL-5 ate synchro's, but the problem might have been fixed.
Although I have an 01 Sport, and the problem was apparently recognized and fixed before my Jeep was built, I have lots of Jeep buds with older Jeeps, and I would like to know the truth about this issue for their sakes.
You have to be careful about what you believe when you see things on the Net, but I'm telling you that I have seen enough posts on that "other" message board to make me believe that there is some truth in this. Also, you have to wonder why DC changed their recommendation for gear oil type.
Let's make this a Jeep Wrangler project, and let's all try to get info on this subject and share it here.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Maybe we could get a Valvoline engineer in here too, and maybe I can get the engineer to admit that oil changes every 3,000 miles are overkill, LOL.
We'll send a note to HQ - maybe someone there knows someone, or if you're reading this Valvoline (or Chrysler), feel free to jump in.
Don't be disappointed if nothing happens with the request; the Toyota rep got abused pretty good and there was only so much that Toyota legal would let him say, so there's not a lot of incentive for a manufacturer to open themselves up in a forum like this. But Subaru has earned themselves a ton of goodwill by being here, so who knows?
Steve, Host
Not only other Jeep boards, but from tractors to exotic cars to vintage cars, GL-5/brass problems have been documented for some years.
Certainly you shouldn't believe everything you read on the 'net, but when you find many, many, many instances of the same problem spread over a wide spectrum of applications, you have to start giving it some credence. Unlike UFO's and alien abductions (my apologies to believers), there's plenty of repeatable evidence here.
Here's a relevant excerpt and link from the Q&A section of the Castrol site:
"Q: What is the best way to choose gear oil?
A: In general, GL-3 or GL-4 gear oil is recommended for manual transmissions and GL-5 for differential gears. GL-3, 4 and 5 are quality standards regulated by the API (American Petroleum Institute) and are classified according to intended use. They especially indicate the anti-wear and oxidation resistance qualities that these oils possess but GL-3 and GL-4 are predominantly specified for transmissions with syncromesh compatibility taken into consideration. Using GL-5 here can cause synchronisation difficulties and poor shift quality. Please refer to your manufacturer’s handbook for guidance.
http://www.castrol.com.tw/eng/faqdetails_atfgearoil.02.shtml
-ajjjjjjjjj
What's the real story?
Your theory is one of several I've heard, and I know of nothing to indicate that it couldn't be true.
I've heard the same theory about synthetics. Up until recently I was putting so many miles on I was changing the oil about every 2 months. Now that gas is so high we haven't been driving the Wrangler much, and I thought about changing. However, don't think it would be such a good idea with a 5 year old high mileage vehicle. Is this sound thinking?
Now, also from what I have been able to find out, there probably is still, to some degree, a greater propensity for synthetics to leak than is the case for dino oils. This is because the synthetic oils are so uniform in molecular weight compared to refined crude oil. They don't have the long molecular chain material to "plug" potential leaks like the dino oils do. But, this is also why they circulate better and get to the critical areas of the engine faster for better lubrication.
I firmly believe in synthetic oil, and I have used Mobil 1 for years. As I have told you guys in here in past posts, I have personal experience with Mobil 1 reducing the cold start engine noise on a Z28 Camaro I once owned. That convinced me that the stuff was good for my engine. It also increased my gas mileage by 5% as measured over a LONG period of time, not just hit or miss gas mileage checking. Higher gas mileage HAS to mean less friction, and that is a GOOD thing.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Has anyone ever heard of them? If so, please respond. Considering a DIY'er rebuild will probably set me back at least $300, this almost looks too good.
Are there some special tools required? Are there kits you can buy that would have instructions?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I was afraid to use Mobil 1, since the truck had most likely gotten dino oil its entire life before I got it.
There is a risk of leaks on older engines that have always had dino oil. I think the synthetic gets to places where the dino has kind of plugged a hole, and the synthetic washes out the old dino oil, thus allowing a leak.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I'll bet that installing a Detroit, or lift kit, or gas tank skid, seem a little more daunting that it does now that you've done it (or helped do it).
The only times it's probably not worth rebuilding a box yourself is if a shaft has broken and punched out the side of the case, or if the box has been run dry and overheated.
I was just a spectator for the Detroit installation, and I'm not sure I would tackle that job by myself even now. Setting gears is something that I don't think I'm ready for.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
"Here's a relevant excerpt and link from the Q&A section of the Castrol site:
Q: What is the best way to choose gear oil?
A: In general, GL-3 or GL-4 gear oil is recommended for manual transmissions and GL-5 for differential gears. GL-3, 4 and 5 are quality standards regulated by the API (American Petroleum Institute) and are classified according to intended use. They especially indicate the anti-wear and oxidation resistance qualities that these oils possess but GL-3 and GL-4 are predominantly specified for transmissions with syncromesh compatibility taken into consideration. Using GL-5 here can cause synchronisation difficulties and poor shift quality. Please refer to your manufacturer’s handbook for guidance." <end>
Mac, while I'd like to believe these companies have it all together, if you go to the Castrol USA products, you won't find anything BUT GL-5 for both conventional and synthetic gear oils. And it's recommended for manual transmissions, no disclaimers about synchros at all.
http://www.castrolusa.com/products/Default.asp
(look under specialty products)
I don't believe you can even find GL-3 and also that GL-4 may be going away also. At least at my friendly auto parts store anyway. Something is amiss but I believe their FAQs may be outdated.
Perhaps I'll trundle down to the Jeep dealer this weekend and ask the parts guy what designation of gear oil they stock. Maybe sit in a Rubicon and make driving noises.
Gary
Gary
Maybe in a few years...
Thanks again. You're a great bunch!
-twylie
It is funny - you had to choose something else because the Wrangler is too small. My problem for this evening is to see if I can remember how to put the back seat in again. It has been out for so long and this weekend there will be 3 of us heading for the Sierras, so I'll need a back seat, and the Wrangler's back seat is MUCH more comfortable than the Tacoma's jump seat.
-Pete
The fact remains that in the past, GL-5 has caused significant problems with the yellow metal components in a multitude of manual transmissions.
It may well be that the current conventional GL-5 lubricants now meet their specifications using a different mix of additives. However, if it were my transmission, I'd either use Mopar Syncromesh (a synthetic), or one of the many proprietary synthetics (like Redline) that meet the current specs.
Like mtngal said, a Wrangler is a great second car. I agree totally!! But in the mean time, don't be afraid to get out with the CR-V. They may not be able to handle an off-road park, but they sure can do any back road / forest road that you can throw at it (if it's 4wd). I was never short on traction, just ground clearance. But, a determined driver can usually find ways around a lot of those big obstacles.
BTW, that removable picnic table comes in real handy when you're camping. Have Fun!!
-Pete
Yeah, I can try some lesser travelled trails. There are CR-V owners clubs (not as many as Jeep owners clubs, but still...) who meet and do some light off-roading.
Thanks again for everything!
I'm new to the Jeep world, but wanted one all my life. Finally "jeeped" in! Found a one-owner, 2001 "city" Wrangler Sahara with 5,500 miles, very clean, from a Cadillac/Mitsubishi dealer. Not alot of extras other than DANA rear axle and dual tops. I'm probably one of those guys who will hesitate in taking it offroad the first time... Sorry about that! But my 7 and 5 year olds think I'm a king. And, my anti-jeep wife (perceived lack of safety, etc.) hasn't left me yet!
In browsing past messages, I do have some comments/questions: From a few years ago, there was discussion about "noisy manual transmissions" with the clutch disengaged. I also have that situation, and two different DC dealerships have said it's the throw-out bearing. One small-town dealership (sales manager, not too patient because I didn't buy his 2003 wrecked Sport for a "new car" price) said it will get better over time since it hasn't been driven that much. The other dealership (service manager) said it will probably NOT get better, and there's no guarantee a new throw-out bearing will be any quieter. I have a year left under warranty, and was wondering what some of the mechanics on the board (Mac, etc.) would do? Get it replaced now, and take a chance that the replacement could be worse (if we believe that particular dealership)? Maybe this Tranny noise is simply the life of the "beast" although some manual transmission owners did NOT report this noise? (I'm a Honda owner all of my life, and we still have a 91 accord and 2001 CRV. Just not used to my new baby's "noises.")
Thanks, and for all of you living in Western Kentucky, "hello" from a Murray native who now lives in Western Missouri!
Noisy bearings don't get any quieter with age, so if it appears it might be the throwout bearing go ahead and get it replaced. It's a zero cost to you and the noise certainly won't be any louder.
As an aside, all Jeeps have Dana axles. The choice is between the D44 and D35. Dual tops are a great option to have.
The NV3550 manual tranny is a "truck" transmission and is notorious for rattling with the clutch out in Neutral. Sound could be decribed as "shaking a bag of marbles". There was a TSB on this and your local dealer may be able to check if that service was done on your Jeep. It won't make the noise go away, but may quiet it down a bit. Mine sounds noisy, but has not gotten any worse since 3/01 when it was new.
You'll see a lot of people question the noise, but I am not aware of any failures or problems with that transmission.
Good luck and enjoy the Jeep!
-twylie
As said by previous posters, the NV3550 is known for that noise when the tranny is in neutral, the engine is running, and the clutch is out. My Jeep has had that noise as far back as I can remember... probably from the day I picked her up after she came in from the factory. It has NOT been a problem, and I now have about 37K miles on the Jeep.
So, if you are from Murray originally, I have to wonder if you have ever been to Turkey Bay? I know you just got your first Jeep, but I wonder if you ever went there with a four wheeler or a dirt bike? It's a great place to wheel! When you come home for a visit, we will definitely have to hook up for some wheelin' at Turkey Bay! (Oh, Turkey Bay is an off road area within LBL, in case you don't know where I'm talking about.)
I have a bud from Joplin, Mo., that's coming to wheel with me at Turkey Bay for the 18th and 19th. Would be cool if you could come then too. I don't know how close you and he might live to one another, but you might become wheelin buds.
Congrats on that Jeep! Now, come on over and let's get it dirty!
Check out my Turkey Bay pics on the itsajeep.org web site.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Andrew
Teenager pinned under vehicle uses jack to free himself (CNN)
Steve, Host
Once when my other half and I were coming back from a national forest hiking trail. The trailhead was on an easy dirt forest service road. We had a flat (nail in the tire) about 10 miles to the closest paved road, and 20 to the nearest travelled road. Getting the nuts loosened wasn't the easiest thing in the world and I did think about the fact that 10 miles is a LONG way when you are on foot.
I saw no mention of it, but from the way he was pinned he must not have had his seatbelt on (leg pinned bewtween windshield and part of a roll bar). It would almost have to be that his legs were tossed up the upper windshield corner.
Wheeling alone = be careful
wheeling alone with no seatbelt = contender for the Darwin award.
Glad he escaped with no worse injuries.
-twylie
-ajjjjjjjjjj
Now my Tacoma is a different matter. When I can finally afford to dump it, I will. I still haven't decided what to replace it with - I keep changing my mind. Sometimes it is something really economical like the Prius, sometimes it is a Liberty, which I like, or an Element which has a great interior, and sometimes it is a second Wrangler (along with a prayer that the price of gas doesn't go through the roof again). It isn't a big deal - I can't afford to take the hit between what I owe on the Taco and what it is worth. Maybe next spring or summer I'll start looking again.
At one point a while back I was reading that someone was developing a modular hard top for the Wrangler. It sounded like something that would be easier to store than the current hard top. Has anybody heard anything more about it?
Let's plan a little wheelin' get together for next time you come to Murray.
I live in Greenville, if ya know where that little map dot is. It's a 68 mile drive for me to get to Turkey Bay. I go virtually EVERY Saturday.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
It's a two piece top, that also has plenty of roof storage space. The smallest piece, when it's taken off, mounts on the rear piece, creating a really big sunroof. Sorry, I can't describe the thing. The drawback is that it's very expensive. Take a look.
http://www.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?UID=200310092035519- - 0&T1=11090%2B001&UREQA=1&UREQB=2&UREQC=3&UREQ- - D=4&FNM=10&x=94&y=74
-twylie