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Comments
Even if they did improve the seats in the Focus, I really disliked the whole seating position in general. The dash was in the way of my right knee, and I never felt like I could get the bottom cushion at the correct angle. I think the Protege has a far superior seating arrangement to the Focus.
let me reiterate that this happens under moderate braking.
If I coast to a stop, I do not hear/feel a clunk nor the tach jump. Same if I perform an agressive stop.
It's when I modulate the brakes(why did they have to give such wonderful modulateable brakes?) to come to a stop perfectly that I see the tach jump and feel the 1st gear shifting. just a tad little fast braking and I can feel a clunk. But If I brake in zoom zoom mode(aggressive) I hear no clunk, nor does the tach jump.
So can anyone decipher what the hell is going on?
Focus Suspension
Protege Seats
Corolla Insulation
????? engine
anyone can fill in the engine?
BMW 3 series anyone? That's about as close as you can get for a perfect ride / handling balance IMO.
"anyone can fill in the engine?"
Well, if has to be around $16K, you can forget about the 1.8T. Realisticly, I nominate the 160hp Honda 2.0L.
And the Honda tranny that goes with it.
I did some research on wheelbases and weight, thinking that might account for some of the differences, but the Pro is only 100lb heavier , and the Focus has 2/10th's of an inch longer wheelbase. So it basically evens out and I doubt that is enough to make a significant increase. One way to make the Protege less jarring over bumps while keeping the suspension the same would be increased weight, but then that would affect handling and acceleration.
The only tips I have driven have been the VW/Audi variety, and seems to work ok, up shifts up, down shifts down. Perhaps mazda was thinking more of a plane yoke(?) where you pull down on the stick to go up, and up on the stick to go down.
Also, I think its very difficult to "accidentally" engage reverse on a VW 5spd, you have to press it down and move it waay to the left. You should not be putting enough straight downward force to put it in reverse during normal shifting.
Note to self: Do not drive to Minnesota in Protege.
I like the seats (a little more lumbar support would be nice, but too much hurts more than too little). I also like how the sides of the footwell gently support my lower legs when I brace against them instead of poking unpleasantly against a bony part. Even the passenger footwells are designed to optimize comfort. The passenger assist grips are molded to minimize sharp edges and exposed ribs, making them actually comfortable to use. Not many interior designers pay attention to these kinds of details. Mazda usually does, at least in the ones I've driven.
No problem in winter: the 3 ft of snow will erase all potholes. ;-)
I don't advocate reading entire books sitting at your monitor, but you can sample the books at this site and then get the ones you like from your public library. Or you can readily refer to these books at any time, day or night.
http://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/index/index.html
It is. My Dad has one.
"No problem in winter: the 3 ft of snow will erase all potholes. ;-)"
That's true. The snow will then partially melt, creating the giant frost heaves, then it will completely melt creating giant puddles. Then you start asking yourself: "Is that just a puddle, or is it a puddle hiding a HUGE pothole?" Then you hit the pothole because you can't avoid it due to the sheer size of it, and other traffic. While screaming and cussing, you will then hit another pothole because you weren't paying attention. You wouldn't believe the sounds I've heard when hiting potholes, yet my Protege remains as tight as it was the day I bought it. At night when the whole road is wet, it is nearly impossible to spot any of the potholes. Then the road freezes over creating extremely icy conditions, then it starts snowing on top of the ice. This cycle repeats itself throughout the winter. Who wants to move to MN?
I don't bother with modulation, smooth is the key to me, ease in, ease out.
I am going at 35-40mph on my town roads.
I see that 200 feet ahead is a red traffic sigal.
So I step on the brakes such that the car comes to stop right at the white line drawn at the traffic light, in almost a linear fashion. My foot does not come off the brake while coming to the stop. The speedo also falls linearly with no hiccups in between.
Even if they still offered this option, I'd still pass on the Focus due to quality/safety concerns. Bottom-line, though: I walked away from the test drive of the first Focus with a grin on my face, and was not all that impressed with the handling of the second. Yeah, sure, I liked the way it rode over pot holes and rail-road tracks ("Dude!"), but it didn't excite me at the prospect of driving it it up and down some mountain roads. Suspension tuning was the only significant difference between the two.
I guess my rear is more "in-tune" with Euro tuned suspensions than American tuned suspensions. It's directly related to the number one reason why I own a Pro (OK, number two after money) - a car with a handling that has been described as "Germanic" on more than one occasion.
Isn't it ironic then that if the Protege rode a little better, it would be even more "Germanic"...ala the BMW 3 series with it's absolutely excellent handling AND great ride? Seriously guys, I know it is possible for the Protege to ride a little better AND maintain it's excellent handling. Don't get me wrong, I love the Protege and realize it isn't in the same class as the 3 series, but since we were talking about the "perfect" car today, I thought I would point out an area of the Protege that *I* think could be improved without sacrificing the handling. It CAN be done, and I suspect Mazda has addressed this issue with the next gen Protege.
Bruno
I start deceleration at around 40mph, as it drops to about 30mph the tranny downshifted from 3rd to 2nd (tach jumped from ~1500 to ~2500). and then as I slowed to 10mph the tranny downshifted again! (tach jumped from ~700 to ~1k, and stayed at 700 once I completely stopped.)
so there, our auto tranny is smart enough to downshift to keep the engine in its power range, even during casual coasting to a stop!
but shouldn't ALL modern auto trannies do that anyway????? chikoo, were you just curious if anyone else notices how smart our tranny is, or do you feel there's a problem with your auto tranny????
The only thing I would take from VW would be the interior and that would be only while it was new because VW's develop rattles as they age .. oh wait, they get those when they are new.. oh well gues there won't be any VW parts on my dream car after all.
Only thing I would take from a Focus is Ford's cheap financing and huge rebates. From the Mazda, I would still take the brakes, suspension, fat steering wheel (or maybe the new Si's wheel) and probably looks .. it would tie with the Corolla depending on what mood I was in. From the Civic I would want the engine, tranny, seats (as long as we are taking them from the SI), and multitude of storage places. I would also want the Civic's safety. To me a loaded Toyota Corolla S looks like a baby Lexus and hides it's econo-car status very well (I do agree that base models are kinda funny looking) so I'd probably make it look like a Corolla. Give me Honda/Toy/Mazda reliability with Hyundai/Kia's dirt-cheap prices and long warranty and you would have a definite winner. Then to top it all off, over a special edition with the WRX's engine. Oh yeah....
Like Newcar31, I still DO NOT like the Protege's ride. It is uncomfortable, if not jaring, over patched roads and has a tendency to bobble front to back. What Mazda needs to do is make the LX models softer riding for those who want it, rather than forcing all buyers to accept stiff suspension of various degrees.
Otherwise, the Protege is probably the best small car compromise a buyer can make. Better interior trim than the Civic and Corolla, especially Korean cars. Heck, it beats the new Altima hands down -- all that hard plastic those owners have to live with just to drive a good-looking body.
Lately, "World Class" has started to mean something else to me -- it was designed to travel over cobblestone streets and unimproved rural roads in Europe and Third World countries. If you have ever driven on cobblestone you will know what I mean -- RUMBLE, RUMBLE, RUMBLE -- tire noise is nothing compared to cobblestones. And very easy to skid on when damp with the morning dew...wet is another story.
World Class seats: Very FIRM for long distance comfort. This is a copout for cheaply made. Look how reviewers complain about Camry, MB, and BMW seats being too hard. The Pro's seats are very good for its class, better than in more pricy cars. What the manufacturers got away from were too-soft seats with stretchy fabrics that looked bad on the used car lots. Make them firmer so the fabric still looks good. They did it for the dealers, not for the customers' comfort. Same thing for hard dashes instead of soft vinyl-covered versions that cracked.
The paradox is very apparent in Italy: narrow, bad streets and roads verses exotic cars. Mostly poor people with super expensive rides parked in the streets outside of pock-marked old houses with broken shutters.
What good is a $140,000 Ferrari if you have to deal with ancient, late 19th century plumbing at home? The water tank is up near the ceiling with a long chain to the handle. The hotwater heater hangs on the wall like our papertowel dispensers and is about the same size. World Class? Count me O-U-T!
Real "World Class" is here! Our homes come first, our cars come second or even third. Perfection is in the eyes of the beholder. If you have both you are blessed.
I parked next to a BMW 5-series not long ago, couldn't help but notice the gaps between the rear bumper facia on the BMW were wider than on my 2001 Pro. The door/fender gaps were wider too. Is it our Pros are better built than a BMW? If so, we are driving perfect cars and don't appreciate them.
Perfection isn't what we are looking for, we become bored too quickly with what we have. If you found the perfect car what would you, eventually, replace it with? No, the fun of owning any car is its imperfections, within limits, and dreaming about what you will buy in the aftermarket to fix it up and make it personally your's. Luxury car buyers wouldn't think of doing that. Neither would the owner of a
"perfect car". For most buyers, today's cars are too nice to screw up with cheap mods.
fowler3
About the protege's suspension, I personally love it. I love the handling and the harsher than usual ride doesn't bother me at all. However, if I go somewhere with my mom she doesn't like it at all but its not her car so I don't care.
Interesting you said "money pit." In the one year I owned this car, I sank more than $3,000 into it in repairs -- and it only had 60,000 miles on it when I bought it. Keep in mind this was in 1985 dollars.
I still keep telling people though -- when it WAS running, it was the most enjoyable car I've ever experienced. Everything was done "right" with the way the car fit, handled and behaved. Man, even my first -- uh -- well, "romantic encounter" -- was in that back seat, and man what a back seat that was! I had that car my first year of college, and I used to drive half of the four-hour trip to school (at around 3 a.m. on Monday morning after spending the weekend with my girlfriend back home), park in the corner of a rest area and sleep on that back seat! And then resume the trip a few hours later.
Needless to say, I have some (very) fond memories of that car. But some painful ones too, usually involving the wallet!
Meade
Meade
As for the BMW 3 series, I haven't ridden in a 330, but I have ridden in an M3 convertible. Its ride was pretty stiff. The ride may have been very close to perfect for me, but the Protege comes awfully close as well for a lot less money.
That is MY problem. My tranny shifts close to 0mph, not 10mph. That is why I feel a clunk/jerk.
Maltb, how do I get my dealer to upgrade my programming on my cars computer so that it shifts as prescribed? ie at 10mph? and not near to 0-3mph?
Please. I need you help on this one.
Chikoo--I feel for you.
And even if you do enjoy to drive, it doesn't mean you like to shift. You can still enjoy the twisties and such.
So I think you should all go play golf today, because I love it and can't understand why everyone doesn't play. You are really doing yourself a disservice if you don't play regularly.
My first Protege (the '92 LX that I totaled at 28,000 miles) was an automatic, and the first (and only) automatic I ever owned. It was the same basic design as the current one -- three speed with a fourth "overdrive" that you could turn on and off with a switch on the side of the shift lever.
I did not like how the tranny hesitated when you mashed the accelerator and then caused the car to lurch fairly violently. After totaling the car I bought an identical '92 LX, except the new one was beige instead of teal (OK, OK ... "Elegant Beige Metallic" instead of "Tropic Emerald Metallic"), and the new one had a moonroof and a MANUAL transmission (I kinda traded the cost of the roof for the auto tranny and got the better deal, I think!)
No comparison in the way the two cars performed. I guess I just like calling the shots!
BTW, regarding learning how to drive a manual and those of you who whine about it ... my first car was a 1978 Toyota Corolla 5-speed I bought when I was 20. Before that I'd been driving my parents' Volvos and a 1980 Pontiac Grand LeMans (aka "Grand LeMon"), all automatic. My dad took me to pick up the Toyota on his lunch hour. He dropped me off beside the car and said, "See you tonight!" I said, "WAIT A MINUTE! I dunno how to drive a stick!!!" He replied, "Well, I guess you'll learn today, won't you?"
Necessity is a powerful thing, my friends. Sure, I bucked 'n stalled a few times. But I got going, and within an hour or so I was an old pro! (And to think that one of the first stoplights I encountered was on a HUGE uphill grade, and this big ol' truck pulled up right on my rear bumper ... THAT, my friends, was my first experience layin' rubber on pavement!!!)
Meade
Meade
as for Manual Pro vs. Auto Pro, I'd say the auto is probably noticeably slower than the manual version. But hey, I'd say handling-wise they should still be relatively similar (taking into account the 200+ lb. tranny weight and the more lopsided weight distribution as an added effect).
Looks, reliabilty, interior room, safety, all have nothing to do with a manual transmission or the love of driving.
So that's why these people may still own a Protege even though they don't get great joy out of driving. Just because the actual driving experience doesn't matter to them doesn't mean they want an ugly, poorly built car.
I'm just toyin' with ya, kiddo!
Now get back over to the Yahoo group and join in on the fun!
Meade
P.S. But really, putting an automatic in a Protege is like puttin' a milk bucket under a bull ...