Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • brozhnikbrozhnik Member Posts: 172
    Interesting, J Wilson. I think that the car may not be as bad as it sounded. I actually didn't even see any hail damage right after the storm (at 7 AM, and of course cloudy) - it was only in the late afternoon/early evening light that I could see any dings. They are on the hood, roof, and trunk, but there aren't too many of them. (The car is white, which someone told me hides the dings a bit.)
    So, I guess that could make one more optimistic about PDR?
    Anywsy, I will get in touch with the Porsche Club and other high-end mechs, as you suggest, and see what they say.
    Thanks again.
  • harddrivetharddrivet Member Posts: 90
    Hello,
    I had some scratches on my gold finish last year, went to the dealer and they gave me a small bottle of touch up paint. I applied that and it really sticks out, to the point where I hate to look at those places on this car. It did not match very well and even though I tried really hard it looks like I put to much on. Well I waited a year to see if it would blend in, even tried waxing to no avail. Is there anything I can do to fix this?
    Any help would be appreciated.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    from UV in sunlight. and it's hard to apply touch-up with a toothpick or something and have it match anyway in light or etherial colors. I found that out with light blue metallic on my last truck.

    the ideal way to deal with it is to have the touch-up taken out and the larger patch professionally repaired by a paint technician who is good at fading-down colors with clear vehicle or with blending mix. might be able to fade it in with an airbrush nicely.

    but it's a problem, sure enough, with lots of colors. boring white and boring black are fairly easy to touch up. everything else is, in varying degrees, a royal pain. god help you if you have a two-directional paint on your vehicle, the best way to handle scratches etc. on that is to repaint the panel completely IMHO. however, I'm not a professional paint technician.
  • lonesomeduvlonesomeduv Member Posts: 50
    My wife's 2003 Accord got caught in a hailstorm while parked at the mall yesterday. There are about a dozen or so noticeable dings, some worse than others but as far as I could tell the paint is still intact on all of them.

    What are we looking at as far as getting this repaired? Will a complete paint job be required? I've seen advertisements for "paintless dent repair" places that apparently can pop out the ding without repainting. Does this process work?

    Should we plan on dumping this car as soon as it's fixed?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    paintless dent removal is worth checking into, but make sure they look closely for cracks in the paint afterwards. if those cracks aren't taken care of, maybe even with buffing and a little clearcoat, you can get the leprous rusty spot effect so common among junkers around here.

    there are a fair number of folks around these parts who just drive hailed cars and use smart remarks like "it hides the fingerprints like my fridge" when snooty types poke fun at them.

    myself, I'd hit the goldanged roof if that happened to my truck. but unless the paint is cracked when those basketball-sized hailstones hit, it's cosmetic only, and any repair that doesn't mung the anti-rust in back or the paint in front is OK.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think paintless dent repair is going to be 100% satisfactory because of the number of dents and the fact that they are obviously on the horizontal surfaces of the car (that is, easily to spot).

    Perhaps if you had a forgiving color, like white or tan, you might get away with it but usually the remedy for hail damage is a paint job or partial paint job, depending.
  • rkohlrkohl Member Posts: 1
    Any suggestions for the best type of clear paint sealant that is available. I'm the owner of a Black, 2004 Accord. I live in N/E Ohio where there is alot of salt in the winter time and would like some protection. Also, what would be the average price I should plan to pay?

    Thanks for any info

    Rick
  • bigfurbigfur Member Posts: 649
    The bad part of PDR...they can do a poor job and actually crac the clear coat of the pant.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    A newspaper reporter wants to hear from folks who were surprised by how expensive a recent automotive repair cost.

    Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, July 15, 2004 with your daytime phone number and a few words about your experience.

    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    PR Director
    Edmunds.com
  • bremertongbremertong Member Posts: 436
    I recently had a door scratch repaired by a come to your home service. After repair there was a clear coat over spray which while unseen is causing a rough surface over part of the windshield and part of the body. Is there an easily obtainable product that will smooth the surfaces for the over spray while not damaging the clear coat on the body? What would be the best method for safely cleaning the over spray on the windshield?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    For the windshield, use extra fine steel wool.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...may try taking an old-fashioned razor blade and scraping across the glass with it, until the glass feels smooth. I know _extra fine_ (key words) steel wool is the next step, but, especially with people who don't do this for a living, it's best to start with the smaller weapons and escalate if need be :-)

    --Robert
  • bremertongbremertong Member Posts: 436
    Thanks very much for the advice in messages 419 and 420. My main problem now is the over spray on the fender, the door and part of the hood. While the repair service masked the area they were repairing, the clear coat spray went onto the door,fender and hood leaving a very rough feel to the metal.
    I have tried to use wax to smooth out the surfaces involved but surfaces remain very rough to the touch.
    Are there any easily obtainable over the counter products that will smooth out the clear coat over spray on the metal surfaces?
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Could try getting a clay bar from an auto supply store. Making sure the clay is lubricated, slide it (don't apply TOO much force) over the paint surface. It's possible the overspray may come out. It's also possible you'll have to have the car buffed out. Clay bars should be $15 or so, and use a little blue Dawn and water in a spray bottle as the lubricant. It's certainly worth a shot. Just don't drop the clay bar, or else you'll have to throw it out.

    Also, every few strokes, turn the bar over, or fold it in half, constantly changing the surface that's contacting the paint. If you look closely (assuming the clay is light in color), you'll see the stuff the clay pulls out of your paint. If you don't change the surface that's touching your car, these contaminants may scratch the paint surface.

    Hope this makes sense,

    --Robert
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    ... and don't miss the little line he threw in: if it doesn't work you can have a body shop buff it out, maybe the same klutzs you had who left overspray, though you may be pretty fed up with them. JW
  • mariposarosdamariposarosda Member Posts: 2
    I'm about to buy a car on which I believe a panel has been repainted. My question is how to tell if the paintwork on this panel is good. I've been told that most paintjobs look good at first, but some last longer than others. Is there any way to tell how this paint will hold up? Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably not. Time is the test. Of course, if you see file marks, waviness and overspray, or an unusual num ber of chips as compared to the rest of the panels, that level of carelessness and frailty would suggest a down and dirty job. But if the paint was done say 6 months ago and has the smoothness and shine of the factory paint, it probably will hold up pretty well.

    My experience has been that bad paintwork deteriorates relatively rapidly, especially when exposed to the sun, weather and car washes.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    ...is that it's a good idea to go to a spray shop that specializes in hiline vehicles (BMW, Porsche, and so on) and ask them to evaluate the quality of the repaint. They can give their expert opinion of whether it's up to OEM quality -- of course it will be nowhere near as good as what they would do, and will let you know this! JW
  • bremertongbremertong Member Posts: 436
    I very much appreciate the responses to my message regarding clear coat over spray. I have used the same scratch repair service in the past.
    I prefer them in that they come to my home where
    most of the services want you to leave the car with them for one to three nights. The over spray is more a case of roughness to the touch rather than visible discolor, the scratch repair is now invisible, if it holds up as the previous repairs did will be okay. I would still like to get the surfaces smooth but if need be can live with the over spray. The repair service said they
    will come out and finish the job but are slow to respond. I have had cars damaged when they were
    held overnight in repair facilities and of course not having the vehicle while in the shop.
    My car insurance does pay for a replacement vehicle but I am still ambivalent about leaving the car in a shop overnight.
  • carwomancarwoman Member Posts: 5
    i have a 97 honda accord, that needs bumpers re-painted and a dent/paint repaired in the left front fender, as well as a minor dings on the back left fender.

    someone suggested i get the whole car repainted at "One Day" franchise for $600, which is supposed to do a decent job.

    A garage, with a painter I don't know, quoted me
    $800 for the bumpers, REPLACE front fender and paint whole left side.

    I hear the franchise paint jobs sometimes don't hold up for more than 2- 3 yrs, but would an independant painter's be much better?

    is it better to focus on just the areas needed or do the whole thing?

    I'm about to sell the car and want it to look good, not a cheap job, and don't want to screw over the buyer either, with a job that deteriorates.
    THANKS!

    THANKS
  • joe166joe166 Member Posts: 401
    If you repaint the entire car I am almost certain that if you try to sell it to a dealer or trade it in you will be suspected of having had a major accident. I had an STS that the dealer scratched up while adjusting a door. They tried to spot paint it but didn't match the pearl triple white very well so when I complained they had to paint the entire fender. That stunk too so to make a long story short they finally had to paint the entire car. It was the pre eminent Cadillac dealership in the South Florida area and they did a great job, but when I went to trade it in on a Lincoln LS a few years later the Lincoln dealer really lowballed me due to the complete repaint. They spent a lot of time looking for frame damage and other signs of a major repair, but of course found none. They told me that it was worth a lot less to them because of the full repaint and I have heard that from several other sources.

    In short, paint as little as possible. A really good repaint would cost you thousands of dollars as it is really labor intensive, removing most chrome and masking as little as possible. Just my opinion.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    A really good repaint will cost 5-10 thousand, done right. And any decent body man will still be able to spot it from across the room. JW
  • cancerdoccancerdoc Member Posts: 2
    Hello, I was told by my MINI dealer not to take the car through an automatic car wash. Will washing at a self-serve place without using the brush be appropriate? Thank you!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if its a ragtop with high speed blowers I think he's right but otherwise a brushless wash should be okay. Sometimes "hand washing" can be worse, depending on who's doing it and what the color of the car is. Ever see a black car washed with a dirty rag and someone leaning down and making nice big circles? Not pretty.
  • cornellpinoycornellpinoy Member Posts: 196
    My buddy just bought a Mini. He was advised that since its so small, most brushes/rollers in automatic car washes wouldn't reach it. So, the dealer offers free hand car washes to owners anytime they stop in. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to take yours to a self serve car wash.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    I use the self-serve car wash. I take all of my own stuff with me and use their "rinse" cycle to get non-frozen water onto the car. Works pretty good, though it's more for a once-over than a regular way to wash the car .... because I'm cheap and don't want to waste my quarters!

    JW
  • peekaypeekay Member Posts: 1
    Hi:

    I bought a 2000 Corolla which has a Dent on the Left Qtr Panel, and also a small one on the Right qtr panel. Has anyone used the popular "As seen on TV product" -- Pops A Dent? Would appreciate any feedback/suggestions/experiences of using the product; or any suggested way of tackling auto-body dents? I read about something called a "Dent Wizard" in Edmunds ... any idea what that it?
    TIA.
  • cornellpinoycornellpinoy Member Posts: 196
    The dent repair kits on TV will reduce the depth of the dent - at best. Not many people have had success with it.

    Dent Wizard is actually a company that specializes in "Paintless Dent Removal". There are other companies that also provide this service. The repair is done by using special tools to push the dent out from behind. Success of the repair is largely based on the experience/skill level of the technician performing the repair. It takes patience, skill and a really good eye. I've seen a number of paintless dent repairs that have come out flawless and some that have come out very poor. The cost of the repair is significantly less than a body shop repair. I would call around and ask the service departments of high-end dealers near you whom they use. Nearly every dealership I deal with has such a vendor on call.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I tried this on my old Corolla and was pretty satisfied with the results. The dent was much less noticeable afterwards. I'd say I was 80% happy with the results and 100% satisfied with the cost!

    The Sandman :-)
  • snukesnuke Member Posts: 81
    My daughter has a 98 Prelude and the paint on the hood, top and spoiler is turning white. Someone told her the clear coat has come off. I saw another red Prelude with the same problem. Do you know if this is common with 98 Preludes?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It really depends on a number of factors that probably aren't related to the model of your car. Where you live (sun/acid rain), if the car is garaged or not, the color of the car (darker colors heat up more) and what kind of maintenance the body gets (is it ever waxed, etc).
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    What Mr. Shiftright said, plus:

    red is especially eager to be effected by environmental wear. My guess is that your daughter isn't much for wax, cleaning, detailing, etc. on the car and that it spends quite of bit of time in full sunlight. If I'm right, then the "white" you see is probably oxidation.

    It can be removed in the following manner --

    wash car with grease-cutting detergent (e.g., Dawn)
    remove oxidation with a lubricated clay rub (sold in autoparts stores, clay is a blob of ... well, clay ... that you rub across the surface to remove all the impurities left by the environment as well as "dead" paint, or oxidation. The lubricant prevents the clay from damaging the surface by scratching little bits of stuff it removes across the surface.)
    Wash car with same detergent again.
    Put on two good coats of good quality polish (no need to use a "cleaner wax" which will remove more paint). Carnauba is the traditional.

    But if she washes the car and, in rubbing it with a white cloth, gets red on her rag, then the clear coat is gone and all she does with her wax is postpone the need for a complete paint job: $5000--$9000. But I doubt it's gone this far.

    JW
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm glad you are an optimist, but from the description, I think the clear coat is about shot. But hey,some restoration is worth a try!
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    LOL.

    When it's that much money, hope is life, Shifty!

    JW
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I always hear about miracles but they never happen to my cars....sigh....

    But now I have a red GERMAN car. Say what you will about German cars and their faults, they make great red paint. You don't see many "dusty" red German cars.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    I have an acquaintance with a mid-80s red (i.e., pre-clear coat) Carrera that he identifies as "Guards Pink" -- an exaggeration but the fading is pretty bad.

    Since clear coat, they're all much better with minimum maintenance. Good luck on yours --

    JW
  • macedonmacedon Member Posts: 27
    Can the host please help me. On Saturday, I had a terrible buying experience of a 2005 Corolla...

    I was worn out after being held over 2 hours by an earlier dealer who refused to honor his oral price (given and confirmed during the course of the week). So was not at the top of my game.

    I paid for a NEW car that upon inspection has a tiny chip in the hood. Dealer said that will not be a problem to fix. Went in today and they dabbed paint on it. Not acceptable since it is not clean and unnoticeable as they promised. (Should I get a receipt for the work. Could it be a lemon law thing).

    Am to go in tomorrow to speak to the General Manager. I want another vehicle, not a paint job which I imagine is what they'll offer.

    And if I have to accept the paint job so that he can remedy it, I hope it is crap. But if not, I expect a discount on the price. How much of a discount should I ask for? And I guess I should mention that I expect a discount before the paint job is done right? Of course I will not sign anything that would have me accept a discount for the paint...

    Also, since I did inspect other vehicles at the first dealership who stated it was mine, I know that my car is missing the 2 plastic covers to be placed under the front console on the door sides at driver and passenger (to cover an indented screw area).

    Dealer said he never saw one of those. Then said today when I said I would go back and get a picture, he produced one and said they go under the car. Didn't buy it but didn't argue. I asked him to point out where under the car is it so that I could make sure I had it. He did not do it. So I said I will go to the other dealer to confirm his statement. (The writing on its package states 'to be placed under the front console...side.... Maybe I shouldn't let them think that I am gullible in having to confirm his story but wanted him to know that I would expose his lie).

    I hate my dealer and want a brand new car. I had a slight discount for 156 miles. He did not give us a reason for the 156 miles, only stating it gave from another location...

    Should I get a Carfax on the Vin to see if it was a fleet vehicle which seems unlikely.

    I did call Toyota to note these deficiencies and they said the dealer can paint the car. It does not necessarily warrant a new vehicle. And I'm sure they're glad they found me to pawn this sucker off on.

    Please help. This is my first new car purchase and I am miserable. Thank you
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What you want here is a full warranty on the re-done paint, in WRITING. If they do a top notch job, I wouldn't personally have any problem with this. I think you are getting too wound up before the need to get wound up has arrived.

    Many MANY new cars are sold after having shipping damaged re-painted.
  • macedonmacedon Member Posts: 27
    Thank you for your quick reply and good advice.

    I did get myself wound up about it but with your warranty advice, feel much better.

    Now I suppose they could refuse. Then what? I never even heard of a paint warranty. They are likely to pretend none exists. How long would the warranty be good for?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it would be the warranty of the shop doing the paint work. How do they stand behind their work and for how long?

    Also, I think you have the right to refuse the job if you don't like the way it looks.

    How big is this chip? BB size, pea size, fly footprint size? Because sooner or later you are going to get a chip in the paint anyway.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Another option would be to offer to get it done (at their cost) at a body shop of your choosing. A good body shop can truly make it so a chip (assuming quite small) is nearly undetectable. Of course they won't accept your offer, but they can certainly get the body shop they use to do a better job.

    If none of this works, and any of your payment for the car (deposit, for example) is on a credit card you can refuse to pay the portion it will cost you to repair the chip competently.

    However, these things are extreme steps and shouldn't be necessary if you try what Mr. Shiftright suggested first.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean regarding the missing pieces,but that's because I don't know the car. It should be easy enough to check without going to another dealer -- do they have another of your model? Can you check it?

    Let us know how you come out.

    JW
  • macedonmacedon Member Posts: 27
    I absolutely hate my dealership. Steven's Toyota in Huntington Station, Long Island. I have already related my experience to a fellow Toyota shopper and they will not be going there. Yeah!!

    The chip was very tiny, maybe small than a pea but it was supposed to be a new car and my experience has me believing the hood will be ruined in no time if not fixed correctly.

    At the time I took possession, hey told me it would be no problem to fix and would be perfect, unnoticeable. Well they dab a bit of paint in the tiny chip. The eddges of the chip are noticeable. (I wish I had known that I could have refused to take it before driving off the lot. Live and learn. What a rotten way to learn.

    I had a problem with a chip on the spoiler of my old car. It was very old at the tiime so was of no importance. Anyway, eventually the entire spoiler was without paint. I fear this will happen to my hood unless they repair the chip properly.

    My dealer had the service/repair guy come out saying, 'It is nothing'. Well it is something to me. And if it was nothing to fix, why didn't he fix it properly the first time tried. Then he said to repaint the entire hood--the car would not be the same, it would look different, it would not Toyota paint.

    I went back to the General Manager and demanded a new car since the guy said the car would not be 'as new' or the same. GM said that it would be as new. Then the service/repair guy said that it would be as new....Then said that he meant that it wouldn't be redone at a Toyota factory...What a bunch of crap. But first I had to say, you are Toyota and you don't have Toyota paint!! Then they said they did. (They were getting really upset at me because there were a couple of customers and I was furious...They better darn well do an excellent repair).

    Called up after I left cause I forgot that I would need a warranty on the job. Transferred me to the service guy even though I wanted to speak to the GM. Again, he says that it wouldn't be the same, etc...He said the car is already under warranty. Said the paint is not warrantied and I'd want a warranty on the re-done paint, the hood....Of course, the GM guy is passing me off to this guy so that he can say that he never said anything...like that. I guess I'll call the GM tomorrow.

    I got off the phone after stating that I would be visiting other Toyota dealers and body shops to find out what to expect and what kind of warranty to expect. Just so they don't expect me to be stupid about it. Though I already have been by taking delivery. I never knew that the deal was not done until you took delivery. I feel so stupid...

    I have been given the name and number of the Regional person by another dealer to assist me if my dealer was not satisfactory. I think I just might call her up.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I really don't think anything is going to happen to the hood of the car because of a paint chip, if that's your concern. If I were you, I'd settle up with them for a free set of floor mats or something and let things be. I'd much prefer the factory paint that's on there than a re-do anyway.

    You need to settle down and re-think this in the LONG VIEW. You weren't stupid. I'm no lawyer but I don't think it's so easy to just "refuse" a car that you signed a contract on, especially for one paint chip. Also you are presently dismantling the dealer-customer relationship forever, so where you gonna go get this car fixed?

    I don't mean to be the least bit harsh. I am Italian and we are the world's greatest pragmatists, so....
  • macedonmacedon Member Posts: 27
    I have calmed down and know understand that chips do not spread. I really thought that it might.

    They gave me a 'we owe' for touch-up paint. They have to order it so will have it in about 10 days.

    They already touched it up (dab of paint in chip since the primer was showing (black spot), hope I won't have to do any touch-up myself.

    Thanks for your help.
  • ronaries10ronaries10 Member Posts: 64
    I am planning to store my Nissan 300zx (1992)this winter in an unheated barn/garage in a rural area - the owner is also in the area Z club and stores his cars in that garage. I've never stored the car b4, instead its simply been garaged at my house & used every 3 weeks or so.

    What preparations should I take to store the car? Its been recommended that I put it up off the wheels & tires ... others have said to change all fluids. Any advice?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Change the oil & filter.
    Flush the brake hydraulic system and cooling system if these maintenance services are coming up on 3 years.
    Fill the fuel tank.
    Pump the tires up to the max pressure on the sidewall. DON'T jack it up and let the suspension hang. It's hard on suspension bushings to leave them in other than their normal position.
    Wash it.
    Treat all the weatherstrips with silicone grease.
    Put plastic down in under where it's going to be parked. Moisture comes up even from concrete.
    Disconnect the battery negative cable.
    Scatter mothballs under the hood to keep critters from lunching on the wiring, especially in rural areas.
    Put a cover on it.
    That's the routine I use for my '96 Riviera. Looks like new every spring. I also have it Krown rustproofed prior to putting it away.
  • ronaries10ronaries10 Member Posts: 64
    Thanks for sharing those storage procedures. I have not heard about the suspension bushings vs tires issue ... only that the tires develop flatspots. Are you of the opinion that its better to deal w/ tire issues ... and does the max pressure on the tires alleviate flatspotting?
    (I'm new at this- so please allow for dumb questions)
    Additionally, one source said to "wrap" the car bottom w/ plastic to create a humidity barrier ... but I wonder if that also would enclose condensation in/under the car?
    I did just purchase a Covercraft Noah cover for it.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Sounds like you're pretty much set, ronaries. I'd like to add my agreement to what alcan offered you.

    If you prefer keeping the battery topped off and have power available, you can plug in a trickle charger with an automatic shutoff (make sure it has the shutoff so it doesn't go too far!)

    If you want to be doubly sure you can add a jar of Stabil or some other gasoline stabilizer as you fill the final tank. But modern gasolines don't really need it for a short duration (like a single winter).

    You don't need to wrap the bottom if you lay the plastic tarp down on the floor like alcan suggested. Much less fuss.

    With modern radials (I assume you have these on your Z?) you don't have to worry so much about flat-spotting. My friend (Ferrari 328S) and I (Porsche 911) just fill the tires with 45# and let them sit. Have had no problems with flat-spotting. Even if you do, it's probably cheaper than letting your suspension extend to full length for several months, but I don't think you'll have a problem. If it really makes you nervous, there is a product called a "tire cradle" that is advertised in the back of magazines, or you can find it online, that claims to prevent flatspotting.

    Hope this helps.

    JW
  • ronaries10ronaries10 Member Posts: 64
    Thanks for your tips on the storage question. Yes, I do have newer tires (Brdg Potenza RE950). I'll plan to fill them to the max at storage (do you have your own air compressor ... or do you just drive from the service station to storage with them that full?).

    I drove my old Porsche 911T 1971 thru a few winters with good luck ... suprisingly good traction on that car; so I had no flatspot issues there!
    Since my neighbors garage burned down from his electronic demands, I'm not favoring using a trickle charger on the car ... but I might go out & charge it manually every 8 weks or so for a few hours.
    Thanks again,
    Ron
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    If you don't have a compressor or portable tank, there should be no problem driving at reasonable speeds (i.e., no drifting!) with max pressure for short distances in cool weather.

    Good luck. Joe
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