That is a great price! Trying to find a good deal on an EXL in the Denver area, best price so far is $31,000 with mud flaps and cross bars. Waiting until spring to maybe get a better price and let our 2000 Sienna take the brunt of one more winter instead of a brand new Pilot.
Ours seems to already have mud flaps on the front... is that standard? We considered buying mud flaps for $259 but then saw the rear flaps OEM on ebay for around $30. I'll probably get those at some point.
Dave, If your willing to drive 2 or 3 hours you should save about $1500 to $2000. No one in North Jersey was willing to deal. I ended up in Doylestown, Pa. (North of Philly). I paid $950 over invoice for an 2004 EX w/ cloth. I did the whole deal via internet & phone. It was the most painless car buying experience of my life. (I need a new car every 3 years). Let me know if you need more info. pete
Crest Honda is one of the dealerships I've been looking at in the Nashville area. Just wondering how much negotiating and shopping around it took you to get the price you paid for the EXL and whether you also shopped at other dealerships in the Nashville area and your experiences at other dealerships. Did you buy at Crest simply because they beat everyone else's price? Also, did the dealership charge any other fees (other than sales tax) above and beyond the price you listed as what you paid (processing fee, etc.)? By the way, what color did you get? Some colors seem to be in short supply, especially red?
The front flaps are standard. You can buy the rear from hondacuraworld.com as well as other online dealers. The one I mentioned is the online part of a Honda dealer in NY. They have been very helpful, offer good prices, and shipping is included.
I called Crest on Monday and spoke with a salesperson who promptly called me back and said the markup is $3000 on a EX-L and they'd split the difference; $1500 off MSRP on any EXL on the lot. A "director of new business developmen" left me a message later stating they'd take $2000 off "any pilot on our lot today only". We went by that night to take a look but didn't like their offer for our trade. They then called Wednesday and said they had a one day offer of $2500 off MSRP of the EXL in sage that we wanted. We sold our Explorer to CarMax and bought the Pilot. They spoke of "end of month" quotas and needing to "move a unit" for "future allocation". Whatever; its new and we love it.
Concerning the dealer itself; for some reason I just don't trust them. I just don't like the car buying experience, as I mentioned in another post. The only add-on fee was a $299 processing fee.
We went to Darrel Waltrip who's lowest price was $31,000 for an EXL without options. BTW, all of their Pilots on their lot have a $1,800 accessory package already installed.
I e-mailed Trickett and Jenkins and Wynn but never went to either dealership.
Bought the 2004 Sagebrush EXL-NAV for $800 over invoice. Came to $30,858.10 plax tax and licence. Was fortunate to have two dealerships w/ the same model to haggle with. Weir Canyon in Anaheim, CA haggled the most. They had a silver on the lot they would had sold for less, but I wanted the sage. Great board, now off to handa-accessories to get the wheel locks, splash guards, cargo tray and all season mats.
Bought a 2004 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ DVD. Finally settled on the following:
Sage Pearl Roof Rack Crossbars Mud Guards All Season Mats Cargo Tray Cargo Cover
$30,972 plus Tax, Tag, Title
Did the shopping over the internet and phone and got all parties down into this general range and finally went with what I believe to be as low as I could go.
Just wanting to check with the field as to how well my efforts did or did not pay off.
Any opinions as to whether or not this was a good deal?
That depends on whether the MSRP is the manufacturer's MSRP or if it is the inflated-by-adding-on-a-bunch-of-way-over-priced-"options" dealer MRSP. Yes, on the former. Maybe yes and maybe no, on the latter -- it depends on whether or not you really want the junk (er, I meant to say, nice stuff --- no, I didn't!) that they piled on....
Several messages implied that there are certain times when dealers are more inclined/motivated to offer lower prices, such as qualifying for future allocations, etc. Does anyone have any insight on the best times for getting the lowest prices? Are there dates for qualifying for future allocations? I know prices tend to fluctuate on current inventory when new models come out. I imagine calendar year end may be another time when dealers are trying hit annual sales targets. Anyone know the best timing with Honda dealers?
zhenliu: though the response to your question might seem underwhelming, I think the consensus is that you have a decent deal there. If you want the vehicle, you'd better take it.
bconsi: Domestic car dealers are difficult to figure out with respect to a "best time" to buy. They may or may not care about end-of-month sales targets, may or may not have something dependent upon the month-cut-off sales figure, and may or may not even care whether they sell their aging inventory (something that has constantly amazed me).
Honda swims in another universe entirely and gives "enigmatic" new and disturbing meanings. You can only really pay attention to what a particular dealer, more like a particular sales(wo)man at a particular dealer, tells you and note that the story may change. If you have the time to wait for a particular time, then play the buying game with any available dealers until you get the deal that will make you happy.
But, for your own sanity, do not spend too much time worrying about whether or not you got the very best possible deal. Because, no matter what you do, someone else will eventually report that they themselves got that proverbial best deal (they're lying, but you will still feel bad even suspecting as much).
My advice is that you read these forums to get an idea of what the averages are, figure out what you would find reasonable in price for the configuration you want, and then pursue that deal starting with internet sales at the dealers available within your acceptable pick-up range (or even farther should you not mind considering having a vehicle shipped to you). Good luck.
I went to one dealer in Dallas, and got the new pilot EX. The buy experience is great. I told them the best offer I got. He told me he beat it and give me more. I walked in around 1:30 pm, the sale guy was great. I tested 3 EX, and finally get pick silver one. It took 2.5 hours to test driver the three cars.
He kept all his word. I got it 2100 off MSRP. He told me there were some dealer add-ons. I found I need these add-ons. I paid 1/3-1/2 for these add-ons: tine glass 140/299, and protection package 200/599. I also got a benefit package such as 8 free oil change, free car rental during maintain services, and discount of services coupons. It is around 1000 bucks. The dealer charges 298 dollars service fee. I am fine for it since I believe it was a good deal for the whole package. It took 20 minutes to finish the price negotiation.
I definitely believe I could get better deal if I play a game between 2 dealers. Another dealer just called me and wanted to beat any other dealer’s offer. I was pretty busy, involved in multiple conference call during the process. I did not like to spend couple hours to save 2 or 3 hundreds bucks.
Pete, Can I have more information about the Pilot that you bought from Doylestone, North Philly (750 over the Invoice price) i would like to close the deal immediately..I live close to North philly...I am looking for EX-L for a price of Max. 750$ over invoice price...I am ready to drive upto 6-8 hrs from Philly area...
I live in Philly and ready to drive upto 8 hrs (max. 750$ over Invoice price...not more than that) Looking to buy 2004 EX-L ...please respond with more information like phone numbers, email id's ...genuine please..want to close the deal immediately
dako_tian: Thanks for your feedback, I think you offer very solid advice. While targeting a great deal can be enjoyable if eventually achieved, over working the effort can get old and not be worth the time. Your insights about the inconsistencies between Honda dealers will help to manage my reactions when I run into it during my efforts.
I intend to follow your suggestions. Thanks again.
First of all, thanks to everyone who posts on this forum. I have learned a lot about the car buying experience. I just bought a 2004 Pilot EX-L Sandstone. I love it!! I live in northern Illinois but I bought the car in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Paid $29,131 (inc destination fee) at Schlossmann's Honda City. Did the whole deal on the internet thru the internet manager. Pain free/No hassle experience. Dealer beat Chicagoland dealers by $1,000. Good luck to everyone out there.
I just bought a Pilot for $500 over invoice. It's the best deal I could find. I have to drive 7 hours to OH to pick it up, but well worth the savings. Most dealers here in VA were asking close to MSRP. I'd be glad to give anyone who is interested the details. Email me at im4hokies@aol.com (Not sure if I am supposed to list dealer information on this forum).
Hi, I'm not sure what the protocol is here, with regard to names and phone #'s. E-mail me and I'll give you the guys #. Pete PBbronco@earthlink.net PS I paid $950 over invoice not $750.00
bconsi: Once you have determined what YOU think is a fair offer considering the market in your location, go ahead and pick out a car and make an offer. All they can do is say yes or no. Just make sure you specify that is is a bottom line price of the car, before tax and tag only, and they can put whatever fees they want to put in, as long as the bottom line is what YOU are willing to pay. If they have a "mandatory" $199 document fee, fine, lower the "price" $199 and slap it in there, above your bottom line. Less taxes for you that way.
Make the offer and let it ride for a few days or week and be patient, they will usually call back near the end of the week or month, if your offer is reasonable. Maybe they will want to negotiate some more, fine, but stick to YOUR guns and if YOU feel like you can afford a bit more to close the deal, go for it, otherwise let them cool their heels a bit longer. Then, once you do close the deal, let us know how it went and enjoy your new pilot without worrying about whether someone got a better deal somewhere else. You will feel good knowing you got the best deal you could in your area.
I personally like to make the offer near the end of the month and see what shakes out. Usually they call back and take the deal. Best of luck.
You need to use the services here of Edmunds.com or carsdirect.com or Consumers Reports.
You START at invoice. And if there are any factory to consumer rebates, then you go DOWN (below invoice) from there. For an example on this rebate, go to carsdirect.com and put in the mitsubishi endeavor. You will see the invoice price, and the price that carsdirect.com is offering the car to you at $2000.00 BELOW invoice. Because Mitsubishi is offering a $2000.00 factory to consumer rebate.
Dont think for one second that a dealer wont try to take some of that rebate for themselves. Sure, they will tell you about the rebate, and then try to hold you to a higher price on the car (essentially taking some of the rebate). Thats why you START at invoice...then go from there.
So you have to know the invoice price. Which is readily available at the websites above. At carsdirect.com, for example, you will add in all your extras for the model you want. Carsdirect.com will walk you through the options. Then you come up with an invoice price based on the car and the options.
I was at about $340 over invoice. No dealer prep fees or advertising fees. Done.
You want the bottom line price.........AFTER all dealer fees. Because what good does it do you to buy a car at invoice, only to have the dealer charge you $1500 in dealer prep fees, advertising fees, so on and so on. For the dealer, it is all a shell game. They don't care what label something has (dealer fees) to make money. They could care less. The profit they get per car is all they care about. And anything labeled, "fees", from a dealer is a profit center. Its all bull...and they make money off of you as a result.
Like buying a house....anything to do with your mortgage that has the word,"fee", attached to it, is negotiable.
Well, one that typically isnt negotiable is the destination and delivery fee that the mfr charges the dealer. The dealer pays it and passes it on to you as a cost. But because it does have the word, "fee", on it, it is negotiable. But good luck getting it taken off.
So, your goal is to find out the invoice price with all the options. Include the destination and delivery charge on top of that.
That is your starting price.
And that is how you do an apples to apples comparison.
So to directly answer your question as to whether the ad is a good price, because it is $500 less than it was before, I dont know. What factory options (dvd or navi in the case of an EX-L) does it have on it? Has the dealer thrown on any extra Genuine Honda Accessories (running boards, mud flaps...stuff like this. NOT scotch guard, undercoating and that stuff...that is all bull and is typically under the, "dealer prep fee", category.)? You can find out the prices for those accessories, too, to find out if the dealer is charging you unreasonably for those accesory items.
Again, to the dealer, it is all a shell game. They dont care if it is under the category of fees, accessories, eating into a factory to consumer rebate, etc.... They dont care. As long as they get much profit per car in the end as possible.
Start at the invoice price. If you can get $500.00 or less above invoice and no dealer fees, you have a good deal. A great deal.
Isell - Can't dealers get them all day for invoice???
Also on pilot buying regions play a big difference. Here in texas where there is a huge buy american attitude as well as places like detroit and ohio are superb places to buy any foreign brands. I got my FX35 for 3800 off msrp 3 months after introduction and my pilot for about 2800 off amonth ago. Those living in the NW and NE and Colorado seem to have the toughest times finding deals. It may be worth a plane ticket and a scenic drive to buy your pilots elsewhere.
I agree with the regions thing, cl. I live in Florida, and as I understand, it is a very inexpensive place to buy a car. My father looked up in Virginia for me. They wouldnt sell a pilot under MSRP.
I hope the 2800 off was somewhere close to invoice.
I have placed claims on a 05 silver EXL with DVD scheduled to arrive Dec 20 (a little gift to moi?). Anyway, I sold my Outback and was without a vehicle. I told the salesperson that without a loaner I would have to buy something else. Much to my surprise, they provided me a vehicle from the used lot. A decent little Saturn - it is not my new Pilot, but I will appreciate my Pilot even more! I was a bit suprised quite honestly. However, there are 4 Pilots on the lot in Winston-Salem, NC only 2 hours away from me, and I could have had one immediately from that dealer, though not in my choice of color.
Has anyone had any luck in getting a good deal on a Pilot EX or EXL in the Westchester County area. Willing to drive for a while if there are good deals out there.
Now that we've decided to take the plunge, we're having trouble finding any decent deals on Pilots in the San Diego area. Most are at MSRP, or maybe a few bucks off. We are willing to shop out of town, or wait for the right deal. Anyone know of a good honest dealer, willing to negotiate, or is there a certain time frame where deals might be had? ie last week of the year? Thanks much
I am looking to buy a new Pilot 2004 EX - Leather with the entertainment system ((DVD). Who are good dealers in this area and what are some of the good deals people have closed on a Pilot in this area? Thanks
Just bought a 2004 Pilot EX-L. I was looking at the recommended maintenance schedule. Honda recommends oil changes every 7,500 miles. Is this correct? I thought oil should be changed every 3,000 miles. I would appreciate any opinions on this subject. Thanks
Is there a cheaper source for the dealer installed options like crossbars, running boards, cargo protector, cargo cover, rear mud flaps, etc.? I obviously mean cheaper than having the dealer install them. Also, are dealers generally willing to negotiate these items or are the prices generally fixed and consistent? Thanks in advance for any help.
I get all of mine at Manchester Honda at www.manhonda.com and they are in CT. Great prices, reasonable shipping and great people to work with. I have bought from Handa-accessories.com too but they are on the opposite side of the country and shipping takes longer.
An opinion on oil change intervals? Oh, those are really hard to come by! ;-)
Jiffy Lube makes money on oil changes and they say "Every 3K - lube it or lose it."
Honda charges you for oil changes but its not a huge profit center (in many shops it's a loss leader) so presumably they have little to gain or lose and they say 7.5K under normal service, more frequent in trying conditions (e.g., towing).
MB, Audi, BMW, and Volvo all offer free maintenance during the warranty period so they lose money on every change. Their systems typically go 10K+, sometimes as long as 15K.
This variability should convince you that oil change intervals are driven by bean counters more than engineers. There is no right answer for everyone.
My opinion: Honda's probably about right for most drivers. If you simply want your engine to get "the best" and/or if you plan on keeping your car a very long time (100K+), then more frequent (say 5K) might pay off. OTOH, if you only keep your car through the warranty/lease period, you can probably go up to 15K or so, but you should go no longer than the mfg requires to keep your warranty intact.
Personally, I do 5K, but if I miss it by a K or two, I don't worry about it much.
I agree in principal with markjenn; but in practice, I have changed the oil in my 1995 Maxima every 4,000 +/- miles. At 148,000 miles, it's showing no signs of engine wear. Is that due to the increased frequency of oil changes? Probably not, but I'm probably not going to change this habit if and when I get a Pilot.
P.S. BMW & Mercedes also only use Mobil 1 synthetic (as does my Honda S2000). And I still don't let the Honda go more than 4,000 miles between changes, since I only drive it about 7,500 miles a year.
P.P.S. For any Pilot owners, how easy is it to change your own oil and filter? I'd much rather do it myself in 30 minutes than spend 1 1/2 hours driving back and forth from the dealership.
Hey, opinions were asked for and I've got one! (Surprise, surprise, surprise!) ;-)
I am far from an expert, having discovered long ago that spending a day getting grease under my fingernails and embedded in my pores, hair, and nostrils is definitely not my idea of fun or relaxation. I also discovered that, while I understand the theoretical functioning of all the pertinent car parts, my hands have not accumulated that "feel" for how to do things correctly (nor have I invested in all the appropriate equipment) so that it is actually cheaper for me to pay the mechanic than to do it myself first before also paying the mechanic! :-(
So, my non-mechanic take is that the $20 to $30 spent on frequent oil changes is pretty cheap insurance and has the added advantage of having someone who knows something about my particular vehicle looking around for potential trouble at reasonable intervals. Their sales pitches for additional service (sometimes actually necessary too) have offered me the reminders and let me play manager to my vehicles' maintenance. Several times this has worked to prevent potentially serious trouble and more than once has improved vehicle performance including increasing gas mileage.
In any case, trying to save on oil changes seems like nickel and dime stuff to me unless you have to deal with some major rip-off artists in the service department. I've been blessed not to have to do that.
My experience with that and other quick-oil-change shops is that you might both "lube it" and "lose it!" The general quality of work there is poor with leaking oil after the change not all that uncommon (my oil filter was not tightened down twice in a row -- the last two times I've ever gone to such shops).
Comments
What is the difference between MDX vs. Pilot brake system? Wife claims that Pilot brakes are too soft??
Thanks for your help.
If your willing to drive 2 or 3 hours
you should save about $1500 to $2000.
No one in North Jersey was willing to deal.
I ended up in Doylestown, Pa. (North of Philly).
I paid $950 over invoice for an 2004 EX w/ cloth.
I did the whole deal via internet & phone.
It was the most painless car buying experience
of my life. (I need a new car every 3 years).
Let me know if you need more info.
pete
Concerning the dealer itself; for some reason I just don't trust them. I just don't like the car buying experience, as I mentioned in another post. The only add-on fee was a $299 processing fee.
We went to Darrel Waltrip who's lowest price was $31,000 for an EXL without options. BTW, all of their Pilots on their lot have a $1,800 accessory package already installed.
I e-mailed Trickett and Jenkins and Wynn but never went to either dealership.
Hope that helps.
Sage Pearl
Roof Rack Crossbars
Mud Guards
All Season Mats
Cargo Tray
Cargo Cover
$30,972 plus Tax, Tag, Title
Did the shopping over the internet and phone and got all parties down into this general range and finally went with what I believe to be as low as I could go.
Just wanting to check with the field as to how well my efforts did or did not pay off.
Any opinions as to whether or not this was a good deal?
is it a good deal base on above info?
bconsi: Domestic car dealers are difficult to figure out with respect to a "best time" to buy. They may or may not care about end-of-month sales targets, may or may not have something dependent upon the month-cut-off sales figure, and may or may not even care whether they sell their aging inventory (something that has constantly amazed me).
Honda swims in another universe entirely and gives "enigmatic" new and disturbing meanings. You can only really pay attention to what a particular dealer, more like a particular sales(wo)man at a particular dealer, tells you and note that the story may change. If you have the time to wait for a particular time, then play the buying game with any available dealers until you get the deal that will make you happy.
But, for your own sanity, do not spend too much time worrying about whether or not you got the very best possible deal. Because, no matter what you do, someone else will eventually report that they themselves got that proverbial best deal (they're lying, but you will still feel bad even suspecting as much).
My advice is that you read these forums to get an idea of what the averages are, figure out what you would find reasonable in price for the configuration you want, and then pursue that deal starting with internet sales at the dealers available within your acceptable pick-up range (or even farther should you not mind considering having a vehicle shipped to you). Good luck.
I told them the best offer I got. He told me he beat it and give me more. I walked in around 1:30 pm, the sale guy was great. I tested 3 EX, and finally get pick silver one. It took 2.5 hours to test driver the three cars.
He kept all his word. I got it 2100 off MSRP. He told me there were some dealer add-ons. I found I need these add-ons. I paid 1/3-1/2 for these add-ons: tine glass 140/299, and protection package 200/599. I also got a benefit package such as 8 free oil change, free car rental during maintain services, and discount of services coupons. It is around 1000 bucks. The dealer charges 298 dollars service fee. I am fine for it since I believe it was a good deal for the whole package. It took 20 minutes to finish the price negotiation.
I definitely believe I could get better deal if I play a game between 2 dealers. Another dealer just called me and wanted to beat any other dealer’s offer. I was pretty busy, involved in multiple conference call during the process. I did not like to spend couple hours to save 2 or 3 hundreds bucks.
I intend to follow your suggestions. Thanks again.
I just bought a Pilot for $500 over invoice. It's the best deal I could find. I have to drive 7 hours to OH to pick it up, but well worth the savings. Most dealers here in VA were asking close to MSRP. I'd be glad to give anyone who is interested the details. Email me at im4hokies@aol.com
(Not sure if I am supposed to list dealer information on this forum).
I'm not sure what the protocol is here,
with regard to names and phone #'s.
E-mail me and I'll give you the guys #.
Pete
PBbronco@earthlink.net
PS I paid $950 over invoice not $750.00
tidester, host
I live in dallas area I wanted to find out what dealership you bought your car at please let me know.
Thanks sammy
Make the offer and let it ride for a few days or week and be patient, they will usually call back near the end of the week or month, if your offer is reasonable. Maybe they will want to negotiate some more, fine, but stick to YOUR guns and if YOU feel like you can afford a bit more to close the deal, go for it, otherwise let them cool their heels a bit longer. Then, once you do close the deal, let us know how it went and enjoy your new pilot without worrying about whether someone got a better deal somewhere else. You will feel good knowing you got the best deal you could in your area.
I personally like to make the offer near the end of the month and see what shakes out. Usually they call back and take the deal.
Best of luck.
$30,400.00 ($490.00 destination charge included). This is $342.00 over invoice.
Accesories added for an additional total cost of $1180:
-fog lights
-crossbars for roof rack
-running boards
-cargo protector
-cargo cover
-rear mud flaps
No dealer prep fees.
EX-L is quoted at ~$29500, $500 below previous quote...but still about $1900 above invoice.
Is this a good price - I think still not as good as some mentioned in this forum.
You need to use the services here of Edmunds.com or carsdirect.com or Consumers Reports.
You START at invoice. And if there are any factory to consumer rebates, then you go DOWN (below invoice) from there. For an example on this rebate, go to carsdirect.com and put in the mitsubishi endeavor. You will see the invoice price, and the price that carsdirect.com is offering the car to you at $2000.00 BELOW invoice. Because Mitsubishi is offering a $2000.00 factory to consumer rebate.
Dont think for one second that a dealer wont try to take some of that rebate for themselves. Sure, they will tell you about the rebate, and then try to hold you to a higher price on the car (essentially taking some of the rebate). Thats why you START at invoice...then go from there.
So you have to know the invoice price. Which is readily available at the websites above. At carsdirect.com, for example, you will add in all your extras for the model you want. Carsdirect.com will walk you through the options. Then you come up with an invoice price based on the car and the options.
I was at about $340 over invoice. No dealer prep fees or advertising fees. Done.
You want the bottom line price.........AFTER all dealer fees. Because what good does it do you to buy a car at invoice, only to have the dealer charge you $1500 in dealer prep fees, advertising fees, so on and so on. For the dealer, it is all a shell game. They don't care what label something has (dealer fees) to make money. They could care less. The profit they get per car is all they care about. And anything labeled, "fees", from a dealer is a profit center. Its all bull...and they make money off of you as a result.
Like buying a house....anything to do with your mortgage that has the word,"fee", attached to it, is negotiable.
Well, one that typically isnt negotiable is the destination and delivery fee that the mfr charges the dealer. The dealer pays it and passes it on to you as a cost. But because it does have the word, "fee", on it, it is negotiable. But good luck getting it taken off.
So, your goal is to find out the invoice price with all the options. Include the destination and delivery charge on top of that.
That is your starting price.
And that is how you do an apples to apples comparison.
So to directly answer your question as to whether the ad is a good price, because it is $500 less than it was before, I dont know. What factory options (dvd or navi in the case of an EX-L) does it have on it? Has the dealer thrown on any extra Genuine Honda Accessories (running boards, mud flaps...stuff like this. NOT scotch guard, undercoating and that stuff...that is all bull and is typically under the, "dealer prep fee", category.)? You can find out the prices for those accessories, too, to find out if the dealer is charging you unreasonably for those accesory items.
Again, to the dealer, it is all a shell game. They dont care if it is under the category of fees, accessories, eating into a factory to consumer rebate, etc.... They dont care. As long as they get much profit per car in the end as possible.
Start at the invoice price. If you can get $500.00 or less above invoice and no dealer fees, you have a good deal. A great deal.
Also on pilot buying regions play a big difference. Here in texas where there is a huge buy american attitude as well as places like detroit and ohio are superb places to buy any foreign brands. I got my FX35 for 3800 off msrp 3 months after introduction and my pilot for about 2800 off amonth ago. Those living in the NW and NE and Colorado seem to have the toughest times finding deals. It may be worth a plane ticket and a scenic drive to buy your pilots elsewhere.
I hope the 2800 off was somewhere close to invoice.
The price quoted is still about $1200 above invoice with dest. charge, so I guess there is still room to lower :>
Email me if you want to buy 2004 pilot in the dallas. I am sorry I can not post the dealer contact info here. My email is zaozhuang@yahoo.com.
tidester, host
Thanks much
Thanks
Jiffy Lube makes money on oil changes and they say "Every 3K - lube it or lose it."
Honda charges you for oil changes but its not a huge profit center (in many shops it's a loss leader) so presumably they have little to gain or lose and they say 7.5K under normal service, more frequent in trying conditions (e.g., towing).
MB, Audi, BMW, and Volvo all offer free maintenance during the warranty period so they lose money on every change. Their systems typically go 10K+, sometimes as long as 15K.
This variability should convince you that oil change intervals are driven by bean counters more than engineers. There is no right answer for everyone.
My opinion: Honda's probably about right for most drivers. If you simply want your engine to get "the best" and/or if you plan on keeping your car a very long time (100K+), then more frequent (say 5K) might pay off. OTOH, if you only keep your car through the warranty/lease period, you can probably go up to 15K or so, but you should go no longer than the mfg requires to keep your warranty intact.
Personally, I do 5K, but if I miss it by a K or two, I don't worry about it much.
- Mark
P.S. BMW & Mercedes also only use Mobil 1 synthetic (as does my Honda S2000). And I still don't let the Honda go more than 4,000 miles between changes, since I only drive it about 7,500 miles a year.
P.P.S. For any Pilot owners, how easy is it to change your own oil and filter? I'd much rather do it myself in 30 minutes than spend 1 1/2 hours driving back and forth from the dealership.
I am far from an expert, having discovered long ago that spending a day getting grease under my fingernails and embedded in my pores, hair, and nostrils is definitely not my idea of fun or relaxation. I also discovered that, while I understand the theoretical functioning of all the pertinent car parts, my hands have not accumulated that "feel" for how to do things correctly (nor have I invested in all the appropriate equipment) so that it is actually cheaper for me to pay the mechanic than to do it myself first before also paying the mechanic! :-(
So, my non-mechanic take is that the $20 to $30 spent on frequent oil changes is pretty cheap insurance and has the added advantage of having someone who knows something about my particular vehicle looking around for potential trouble at reasonable intervals. Their sales pitches for additional service (sometimes actually necessary too) have offered me the reminders and let me play manager to my vehicles' maintenance. Several times this has worked to prevent potentially serious trouble and more than once has improved vehicle performance including increasing gas mileage.
In any case, trying to save on oil changes seems like nickel and dime stuff to me unless you have to deal with some major rip-off artists in the service department. I've been blessed not to have to do that.
Steve, Host