I admire your taste. The Jet Black -- very very sophisticated. I think the Alpine white could look good too with black leather interior and aluminum trim. Just remember the cars a bit bigger now so be certain you like it in white.
You aren't taking into account the finance charges.. AKA interest.. The bank you lease from buys the car from the dealer.. That money has to have interest charged to it..
If you are certain that you want to keep a car for the long run, you are usually better off purchasing the car.. That way, you avoid the acquisition fee..
Most makes (BMW included) have a balloon note program that can lower the payments, if that is the way you want to go...
But, if you plan on keeping a car for the long-term, I don't recommend buying anything that you can't afford to make 60 month payments on.
Under your plan, you would be making payments for 7-8 years.. With repair and maintenance bills kicking in at 4 years..
Most people balance the lack of warranty and maintenance plan on their leased cars, and assume that they will be better off leasing another new car, rather than purchasing at lease-end.
A newspaper reporter wants to talk with current and former BMW owners who either love or hate the brand's new styling. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, February 25, 2005 with your daytime contact info and a few words expressing your opinion.
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Thanks. Makes sense. Except, aren't the finance charges (interest) already included in the lease payment? If I add lease payments for three years and then consider the residual, this usually adds up to about the retail cost of the car. How much is the acquisition fee? and does the dealership charge new fees to buy at end or can the car be purchased directly from the bank? Thanks (I guess this should probably be in a different thread?)
Leasing effectively gives you a put option with the vehicle. There is a cost to it-- it's usually buried in either the money factor [interest rate] or (most likely) all of the additional fees that you incur with leasing that don't happen when you purchase.
I for one love the styling of the current BMW 3 series and in all fairness it is hard to follow perfection.
The new 3 looks somewhat non-descript to me with derviative styling cues in the side and rear from Jaguar and Infiniti in the tail lights.
Mercedes seems to be in an uptrend regarding styling. The new SL500 and CLS500 are very attractive cars. The spy photos and the next generation C class are also extremely attractive borrowing some of the styling of the new CLS.
The competition must have Chris Bangle on thier payroll.
Once you lease a car, the contract is between you and the bank. Dealerships only provide the car. Things like acquisition fees, Disposition fees and excessive wear and tear fees are run by the banks. (although if you do decide to return the car, a dealership will inspect your car and report any excessive wear and tear to the bank).
Acquisition fee can range anywhere from $625-$900.
Disposition fee is usually $350.00 and only applies if you decide to return the leased car. If you decide to buy it at the end of the lease, you won't be charge the disposition or excessive wear/tear or over mileage. Since you are buying it.
If you decide to trade it in for another BMW, most BMW centers will wave the disposition fee.
You can just purchase the car straight from the bank that you leased the car from anytime during the lease or at the end of the lease.
"If you decide to trade it in for another BMW, most BMW centers will wave the disposition fee."
I am returning my 530i leased through BMW-FS in mid-March. I was told by BMW-FS that I would be charged the $350 disposition fee, however, if/when I lease an E90, I will be credited the $350.
Well, I guess I expected the responses to be simple. How much over invoice are people paying; not including fees, taxes trade-ins leasing etc. etc. etc!
So here is a revised question. Who here lives in Northern California? It may do us good to ban together and share pricing and dealership info.
Just to put it into perspective payments for 8 years is really expensive, even with historically low rates. Let's assume a $30000 MSRP/Sales Price and $20000 Residual. I am going to assume a 5% interest rate for leasing and purchasing (.00208 money factor) and a $625 acquisition fee on the lease.
The lease fee + money factor is $4375 ((30000sales price+20000residual)*.00208moneyfactor*36months)+625Aquisition)
Then we finance $20000 over 5 years at 5%. The interest is about $2650.
Total finance charges for the lease and then purchase = $7025.
A traditional 5 year loan at 5% for $30000 is less than $4000 if you can live with the higher payments.
I go through the same scenario all the time and have decided that if I am going to keep my car for a significant lenghth of time that I should make higher payments to save the interest charges. This is what I do for my wife's car. Don't get me wrong, I like leasing, but I wont use leasing as a vehicle for extending my payment term.
Thanks Selm (and others). Very helpful info. If I plan to keep the car, will definitly purchase rather than lease. If lease, will turn in at end of lease period. Wonder what to expect lease factors to be. Certainly will be no "deals". Payment for a $36k car?
"For $36K, expect a payment around $550/mo. including tax.. At least at the beginning.."
Interesting, I leased my 530i, which had a retail price of just shy of $49,000 (not including taxes and all of the other goodies that dealers charge), however, since I did the ED thing, my actual lease price (including TT&L) was somewhere in the mid to high $43,000 range. That yielded a monthly lease payment of $558 for a 36 month lease. Not too shabby. ;-)
No, do your math again. I was thinking of leasing a new 3 Series and calculated that buying one would be cheaper. That is, if you plan to sell the car after 3 years. Why, because of the re-sale value BMW's have. Well think of it this way, if you will get a new car after 3 years, it will be cheaper to sell the car (not trade in of course) and use that money for a new car, than if you lease and then just return the lease, ending up with no down payment for a new car. Now if your sure of buying, jus buy it, it will be less than a lease. Why do you think cars are leased? Dealers make money either off the buy-at-the-end option or from re-selling the vehicle. Do the math, and copp yourself a nice ride!
And no, you can lease a 325i for CHEAPER, less you add many options. Jus depends if BMW has special lease offers, like one for a base 3 Series at $299/month.
How much more do you guys think the new 3-Series will cost? As in, how much more than the usual $30K base price? I'm wondering cuz I don't have much more than that, especially after taxes. This car's pretty much a must have tho' and I'm only 18, haha.
Always love BMW and ready to buy one. We test drove 2005 325xi, but would definitly prefer a 2006 model. The deciding factor comes down to price. We don't want to spend more than $34,500 including everything (Tax and destination charge, etc). The options we would like to have are auto transmission and power driver seat. If we plan to buy it this fall, is it possible to get 2006 xi at this price? Anyone has information on this please?? Or we have to go with the 2005 model with this price?
"Shipo, I was wondering about your reasoning for going from the 530 to the 330 next year. I have a '01 530 and am thinking of doing the same "downgrade". My reasons center on the fact that the 330 is upgraded in size to approximate the 530 of our vintage and the styling of the new 330 is far closer to our 530. Any other thoughts you might have or anyone else out there. Also do you have any info on the relative quietness of the new 330 vis-a-vis our 530s?"
We seem to be singing from the same page of the Hymn book. ;-)
- My E39 530i is just about the perfect size car for my needs/wants and desires, the E60 is a larger car, inside and out. A bit too big for me. - While I haven't seen the official numbers yet, even though the new E90 3-Series is still somewhat smaller outside (0.4" narrower, 0.6" less height, 9.8" shorter and 2.7" less wheel base) than the E39, the E90's interior space is allegedly nearly identical to the E39. That works for me.
- The styling (or lack thereof) on the E60 leaves me cold, inside and out. Yuk! Some folks liked it coming out of the box. Others have said that it grew on them. Me, still "Yuk!" - The styling of the E90, while not entirely my cup of tea (especially the interior) is still fairly pleasing to my eye. I would probably really appreciate the E90's interior were it not for the E39 interior that I've lived in for the last three years. That design might end up being the nicest interior layout of any car I'll ever own, it's that good.
- With the E60, you are required to have iDrive, and if you opt for the SP (I will), then you are also required to have Active Steering. - With the E90, both are supposedly optional (certainly the iDrive will be), and while I have not yet decided on those two options, it's nice to know that they are optional.
- I like power (but not enough to have popped the extra $8,000+ for the 540i), the E90 330i will have a better power to weight ratio than the E60 530i.
Regarding quietness, I had a 1999 328i prior to my 530i, in fact, I had them both at the same time for almost a month (well, sort of, I did the ED thing, so the two cars had a little water between them), so I got a chance to drive them back-to-back. In the end, if there was a difference between the two, then I couldn't tell. I am confident that the E90 will be just as refined.
Little stuff that I might worry about: 1) The E46 has a very annoying 37 degree alert feature that if you don't acknowledge it, it switches your chosen display away from where it was to the temperature. The E39 has a dedicated temperature display and a separate message display, which doesn’t force you to acknowledge the message. 2) The HK audio system in the E46 was not even in the same league as the Premium Audio system on my 530i. Hopefully the E90 will have that taken care of. 3) While the E36 3-Series had separate Left/Right climate control settings (like the E39), the E46 went to a single setting. I'm hoping that the E90 reverts back to the separate controls as my wife likes it MUCH warmer than I do. 4) The SP on the E90 will be delivered with 18" staggered width wheels and tires. I found on my SP equipped 530i that rotating the tires (contrary to BMW's recommendations) when they get noisy instantly cures the noise. The only other option is to buy new tires. Grrr. I wish I could opt for an SP equipped car with all four corners shod with the same size 17x8 wheels and 235/45 R17 tires that are on my 530i. That would also have the added benefit of little extra compliance for the odd pothole and such.
That's the $64,000 question. I have carefully studied everything published about the E90, and that particular number has not been part of the mix as of yet.
Having said that, let me caution you on the relevance of that number. Basically, as a stand alone number, "Rear Seat Leg Room" is meaningless.
I'll use a few select vehicles to help illustrate this point, consider the following list:
Based upon that list, the Chrysler 300C easily has the most leg room for the back seat passengers. Right? Bzzzt! "I'm sorry, that's incorrect!" Consider the following amended table:
Rear seat measurements are taken with the front seat all of the way back to the stops, and since all front seats (and their respective amounts of travel) are not created equal, the only measurement that makes any sense is Total Leg Room. When you consider the mid 1990s Passat, you see a car that had nearly 10% more front seat travel when compared to practically everything else out there. I used to drive a 1995 Passat and I can tell you that the 45.1" measure is no misprint. By the time you move the front seat far enough forward to allow any normal person to reach the pedals, you find that the back seat leg room grows to cavernous proportions, so much so that the relatively small previous generation Passat actually edges out the 300C for total leg room (and by extension, rear seat leg room as well).
I thought the general consensus was to move away from the “exciting” bangle design and move to a more conservative design (while keeping the BMW ride).
Looks pretty good to me and yes on the taillights.
Im pretty sure you'll be able to get the 2006 3 Series for that price, depending on the tax rate where you live. Well, the thing is, BMW dealerships are NO Honda dealers, you're not dealing with jus any salesman. They know whether or not you got the money, so once they know you're good for it, you can NEGOTIATE a bit. Credit, financing, etc. won't matter less you flat out tell them what you want. Or jus' say you'll go to a different dealer. Believe me, they'll work with you, a bit at least (My dad did that for his 04 5 Ser. and they were throwing in some nice incentives) So yeah, work with them, its your $$$.
My dealer told me smg and sport package wouldn't be available until late fall. Now I don't know if that means SMG in general or SMG with the sport package.
Thanks for your reply. The car actually will be for my wife, and auto trans is a must. The reason for all wheel drive (xi) is that we live in Minnesota. While this snow season has not be too bad so far, we better prepare for it.
Also it is kind of relieved feeling to know we don't have to settle with a 2005 model for the money we want to spend. Yesterday I talked with my wife about the possibility of going with a 2005 model; she did not say much, but I could feel her obvious disappointment.
Good choice! I have already put a deposit on a 2006 325xi. I test drove the 2005, but since the 2006 gives you more room and more than 30 hp more, it is a no brainer. I would have always wished I waited for the 2006 every time I saw one on the road, so the few extra months I am waiting is not a big deal.
I was considering the SMG too. My dealer & BMW print info state SMG after September. It's just as well, as I haven't heard anything good about the non-M3 SMG. The new 6-speed step is supposed to be an improvement over the '05. Best of luck.
I drove a 2004 325i with SMG and it was a blast. BTW in 2004 the SMG was already 6-speed. I love the manual, but originally considered the SMG as a compromise because of the spousal factor. But after driving the SMG I was very impressed by it and don't consider it as a big compromise anymore.
With tax and fees I would say it is nearly impossible to get the 325xi with the option you want for that price. MSRP for a 2005 is over 34k. The 2006 will be slightly higher but IMHO there will be little room for dealing on the first Xi's that come out. Maybe $500 off. Add the taxes and fees and I think you go over. Not by much probably. But definately over.
[With tax and fees I would say it is nearly impossible to get the 325xi with the option you want for that price.]
Ouch!!
If waitng for a few months can give me a little more negotiation room to bring the price down to the level I can afford, it may be a wise thing to do. The bottom line, I plan to buy this car before the weather turns around again next winter, which will be mid-December right before Christmas. Wish me good luck....Otherwise, I may have to face tough decisions.....
Hello all...I am 19 years old and looking for my first BMW (preferably the 2006 3er). I would like to know what a significant down payment would be on a 38,000 dollar car. Would I be better off getting a CPO 3 Series or wait a couple of months to indulge my senses with an '06?
The monthly payment on financing $38000 at 4.5% for 60 months is $708. For every $1000 you put down, you will reduce your monthly payment by $18.64 in this example. You will need to decide what monthly payment you want and/or how much cash you are willing to depart with. That may help you decide which course to take. I try to keep my car expense (gas, insurance, car payments) to no more than 15% of my net income. I love cars, but I try not to let them be the cause of not achieving my financial goals. Good luck to you with your decision.
It is very hard to resist the tempatation of driving a Bimmer, no matther of your ages. It is happening to me now - the deal I may can get will be more than what I planed, but I think I will still go with a bimmer, as long as it won't screw up my finance.
I plan on buying an '06 325xi with the xenon headlights and wanted to know if there are any instances of stolen xenon headlights on BMW cars as in the Maximas?
Comments
If you are certain that you want to keep a car for the long run, you are usually better off purchasing the car.. That way, you avoid the acquisition fee..
Most makes (BMW included) have a balloon note program that can lower the payments, if that is the way you want to go...
But, if you plan on keeping a car for the long-term, I don't recommend buying anything that you can't afford to make 60 month payments on.
Under your plan, you would be making payments for 7-8 years.. With repair and maintenance bills kicking in at 4 years..
Most people balance the lack of warranty and maintenance plan on their leased cars, and assume that they will be better off leasing another new car, rather than purchasing at lease-end.
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Thanks (I guess this should probably be in a different thread?)
Well, we'd have to see the lease you're speaking of, but generally, this is not the case. Maybe you've seen a lot of "screamer" lease deals?
The new 3 looks somewhat non-descript to me with derviative styling cues in the side and rear from Jaguar and Infiniti in the tail lights.
Mercedes seems to be in an uptrend regarding styling. The new SL500 and CLS500 are very attractive cars. The spy photos and the next generation C class are also extremely attractive borrowing some of the styling of the new CLS.
The competition must have Chris Bangle on thier payroll.
Acquisition fee can range anywhere from $625-$900.
Disposition fee is usually $350.00 and only applies if you decide to return the leased car. If you decide to buy it at the end of the lease, you won't be charge the disposition or excessive wear/tear or over mileage. Since you are buying it.
If you decide to trade it in for another BMW, most BMW centers will wave the disposition fee.
You can just purchase the car straight from the bank that you leased the car from anytime during the lease or at the end of the lease.
I am returning my 530i leased through BMW-FS in mid-March. I was told by BMW-FS that I would be charged the $350 disposition fee, however, if/when I lease an E90, I will be credited the $350.
Best Regards,
Shipo
So here is a revised question. Who here lives in Northern California? It may do us good to ban together and share pricing and dealership info.
Thanks
bmwccc
The lease fee + money factor is $4375 ((30000sales price+20000residual)*.00208moneyfactor*36months)+625Aquisition)
Then we finance $20000 over 5 years at 5%. The interest is about $2650.
Total finance charges for the lease and then purchase = $7025.
A traditional 5 year loan at 5% for $30000 is less than $4000 if you can live with the higher payments.
I go through the same scenario all the time and have decided that if I am going to keep my car for a significant lenghth of time that I should make higher payments to save the interest charges. This is what I do for my wife's car. Don't get me wrong, I like leasing, but I wont use leasing as a vehicle for extending my payment term.
They need to sell too many of the 3-series to keep lease prices up for too long.. It is their bread-and-butter..
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Interesting, I leased my 530i, which had a retail price of just shy of $49,000 (not including taxes and all of the other goodies that dealers charge), however, since I did the ED thing, my actual lease price (including TT&L) was somewhere in the mid to high $43,000 range. That yielded a monthly lease payment of $558 for a 36 month lease. Not too shabby. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Money factors, residual, incentives... all make a big difference in the payment..
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It's about half the size of a regular brochure - that is it's the same width but only about half as high.
It only has information about the 325i and the 330i.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Many thanks in advance.
"Shipo, I was wondering about your reasoning for going from the 530 to the 330 next year. I have a '01 530 and am thinking of doing the same "downgrade". My reasons center on the fact that the 330 is upgraded in size to approximate the 530 of our vintage and the styling of the new 330 is far closer to our 530. Any other thoughts you might have or anyone else out there. Also do you have any info on the relative quietness of the new 330 vis-a-vis our 530s?"
We seem to be singing from the same page of the Hymn book. ;-)
- My E39 530i is just about the perfect size car for my needs/wants and desires, the E60 is a larger car, inside and out. A bit too big for me.
- While I haven't seen the official numbers yet, even though the new E90 3-Series is still somewhat smaller outside (0.4" narrower, 0.6" less height, 9.8" shorter and 2.7" less wheel base) than the E39, the E90's interior space is allegedly nearly identical to the E39. That works for me.
- The styling (or lack thereof) on the E60 leaves me cold, inside and out. Yuk! Some folks liked it coming out of the box. Others have said that it grew on them. Me, still "Yuk!"
- The styling of the E90, while not entirely my cup of tea (especially the interior) is still fairly pleasing to my eye. I would probably really appreciate the E90's interior were it not for the E39 interior that I've lived in for the last three years. That design might end up being the nicest interior layout of any car I'll ever own, it's that good.
- With the E60, you are required to have iDrive, and if you opt for the SP (I will), then you are also required to have Active Steering.
- With the E90, both are supposedly optional (certainly the iDrive will be), and while I have not yet decided on those two options, it's nice to know that they are optional.
- I like power (but not enough to have popped the extra $8,000+ for the 540i), the E90 330i will have a better power to weight ratio than the E60 530i.
Regarding quietness, I had a 1999 328i prior to my 530i, in fact, I had them both at the same time for almost a month (well, sort of, I did the ED thing, so the two cars had a little water between them), so I got a chance to drive them back-to-back. In the end, if there was a difference between the two, then I couldn't tell. I am confident that the E90 will be just as refined.
Little stuff that I might worry about:
1) The E46 has a very annoying 37 degree alert feature that if you don't acknowledge it, it switches your chosen display away from where it was to the temperature. The E39 has a dedicated temperature display and a separate message display, which doesn’t force you to acknowledge the message.
2) The HK audio system in the E46 was not even in the same league as the Premium Audio system on my 530i. Hopefully the E90 will have that taken care of.
3) While the E36 3-Series had separate Left/Right climate control settings (like the E39), the E46 went to a single setting. I'm hoping that the E90 reverts back to the separate controls as my wife likes it MUCH warmer than I do.
4) The SP on the E90 will be delivered with 18" staggered width wheels and tires. I found on my SP equipped 530i that rotating the tires (contrary to BMW's recommendations) when they get noisy instantly cures the noise. The only other option is to buy new tires. Grrr. I wish I could opt for an SP equipped car with all four corners shod with the same size 17x8 wheels and 235/45 R17 tires that are on my 530i. That would also have the added benefit of little extra compliance for the odd pothole and such.
Well, those are my thoughts for now.
Best Regards,
Shipo
What options are other people planning to get and why?
Gary
Having said that, let me caution you on the relevance of that number. Basically, as a stand alone number, "Rear Seat Leg Room" is meaningless.
I'll use a few select vehicles to help illustrate this point, consider the following list:
Year -- Model --- Rear
2005 -- 330i ------ 34.4
2004 -- Passat -- 35.3
1997 -- Passat -- 37.0
2005 -- 300C ----- 40.2
2005 -- 530i ------ 36.0
2005 -- A6 4.2 --- 36.9
Based upon that list, the Chrysler 300C easily has the most leg room for the back seat passengers. Right? Bzzzt! "I'm sorry, that's incorrect!" Consider the following amended table:
Year -- Model --- Rear - Front - Total
2005 -- 330i ------ 34.4 -- 41.4 -- 75.8
2004 -- Passat -- 35.3 -- 41.5 -- 76.8
1997 -- Passat -- 37.0 -- 45.1 -- 82.1
2005 -- 300C ----- 40.2 -- 41.8 -- 82.0
2005 -- 530i ------ 36.0 -- 41.5 -- 77.5
2005 -- A6 4.2 --- 36.9 -- 41.3 -- 78.2
Rear seat measurements are taken with the front seat all of the way back to the stops, and since all front seats (and their respective amounts of travel) are not created equal, the only measurement that makes any sense is Total Leg Room. When you consider the mid 1990s Passat, you see a car that had nearly 10% more front seat travel when compared to practically everything else out there. I used to drive a 1995 Passat and I can tell you that the 45.1" measure is no misprint. By the time you move the front seat far enough forward to allow any normal person to reach the pedals, you find that the back seat leg room grows to cavernous proportions, so much so that the relatively small previous generation Passat actually edges out the 300C for total leg room (and by extension, rear seat leg room as well).
Best Regards,
Shipo
I wanted to add a car to your list.
My wife also owns a '95 Honda Prelude in addition to her 325xi.
Rear leg room (front seat all the way back)= 0.25"
Seriously!
Hence why we had to buy the 325xi with a new addition to the family.
It was literally impossible to put a car seat in the back of a Prelude even though the owner's manual said you could! Yeah, right......
Looks pretty good to me and yes on the taillights.
Also it is kind of relieved feeling to know we don't have to settle with a 2005 model for the money we want to spend. Yesterday I talked with my wife about the possibility of going with a 2005 model; she did not say much, but I could feel her obvious disappointment.
Ouch!!
If waitng for a few months can give me a little more negotiation room to bring the price down to the level I can afford, it may be a wise thing to do. The bottom line, I plan to buy this car before the weather turns around again next winter, which will be mid-December right before Christmas. Wish me good luck....Otherwise, I may have to face tough decisions.....
Thank you,
BMW LOV3R
More power to you if you can just don't screw up your credit for the next 10 years by doing it...