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Toyota Highlander Hybrid
This week (12/8/03) Toyota announced it would debut it's 2005 hybrid Highlander at the 2004 North American International Auto Show in Detroit next January.
What else has anyone learned about this vehicle besides what's available in the news release on Toyota's website:
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2003/12/09-1-Hybrid-High- lander.html
What else has anyone learned about this vehicle besides what's available in the news release on Toyota's website:
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2003/12/09-1-Hybrid-High- lander.html
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Comments
I think the Hybrid HL will put Hybrids on the map for good. Right now the are still kinda "techie" in that the Prius is "teched out" especially in its look. As long as the look remains similar, this should be a hot seller (particularly if the upgraded price is reasonable).
As for price... I am hoping that Toyota will continue to partially subsidize the price in order to increase popularity of the HSD systems.
Lexus is lexus... the Lexus 400H is of course going to be costly as the current 330RX is because it is a luzury model. The HL should be much more affordable to the masses (before adding on all the little extras).
As for availability... I hope to drive one of the lot as soon as they become available. I am pretty sure there is going to be a waiting list for this car also (like the Prius)... so order yours plenty in advance!
The HSD system will be perfect for this car. Increasing the power and fuel mileage significantly. Will the new HL Horsepower be 400 similar to the Lexus 400H???
Hope to hear alot more excitement on this board after the role out at the Auto Shows!!!
> subsidize the price in order to increase popularity
> of the HSD systems.
TOYOTA MADE A PROFIT WITH PRIUS.
Your information is grossly outdated. At one time, Prius was subsidized. But that is now ancient history. The classic Prius earned money halfway through it's life here, it didn't cause a loss. And since HSD is a propulsion system, not a specific model. The new version of Prius should be in the "profit zone" shortly, not really that much different from other new vehicles.
Look at it this way... Toyota will be building 300,000 systems per year starting in 2006 (according to their original plan before they realized the 2004 Prius would be so popular). Do you really think they would want to subsidize that many?
JOHN
People are under the assumption that the CVT is more complicated than an automatic transmission. (That's because it is so different.) In reality, it is actually quite a bit more simple. That simplicity costs less.
The engine itself is smaller than usual. That results in a lower cost too.
The front-end of the car is shorter than usual too. That's an obvious rather large savings.
The speedometer likely represents a savings as well, believe it of not. No self-contained high-precision moving parts required like in a traditional design. It's just a dumb LED (that looks really impressive via optical tricks).
The dashboard is an obvious cost reduction. Eliminating all the mechanical parts and using just by-wire interfaces instead is cheaper. (You can thank the computer & music industries for that!)
I wonder what else Toyota did. Hmm? They allowed their engineers to build components from scratch, sparing no expense during the research phase. That's rarely an option with normal new vehicle design. Automakers like to reuse parts. But with HSD intended to replace the current infrastructure, this was a special case. Creating entirely new parts for reuse later is viewed upon as a way to save money in the long run too.
Needless to say. Toyota had lots of opportunities to help them achieve a profit with Prius (and HSD).
JOHN
Any thoughts on the design of the 2005 Hybrid HL. Do you think it will look like the standard HL or they going to do all the futuristic "tricks" that they did with the Prius?
If not, will the cost be significantly more?
Click on "Public"
Type in "Highlander" for the search and you should get a good collection of photographs.
Here's information that Toyota has provided on the new model.
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2004/01/04-3-hibridhighl- - ander.html
Looks like in "early 2005" the hybrid version will go on sale with about 270 hp and "significantly better" mileage than a compact sedan.
Too get 2 MPG over 27.6 combined, the City MPG MUST BE at least 26MPG!
26/33 MPG
270 HP
0-60 in less than 7 seconds?
DrFill
Let me know if anyone has heard anything about pricing and when available to order.
WOW... V6 engine... 270 hp... room for 8... and approx. 30 mpg in mixed driving... WOW!!!!
I was relieved to see very little exterior/interior/options change from the '04 - which I just bought! Although I'm very interested in owning a hybrid vehicle, I'll wait until Toyota does a refresh - maybe '07 or '08?
By the time Toyota has marked the hell out of these and brought the cost down to a minimum, GM and others will have lost a ton of market share and have to spend a fortune to catch up. Sell American car stocks now with attitudes like these:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/06/pf/autos/detroit_gm_hybrids/index- .htm
Again... remember the 70's and 80's...
recently.. remember the comeback of Chrysler then the selling of it to Mercedes.. and what happened?.. down the tank
The folks in Detroit don't get it!!!
> for the Lexus SUV hybrid which makes no marketing sense
...until you compare it with the marketing success of Ford & Mercury. The same situation existed with those two product lines from the same company.
Remember, LEXUS and TOYOTA dealers & service are entirely different entities serving different consumer markets.
JOHN
Unfortunately, only environmentalists and technophiles may even be aware of hybrids.
All we can hope is that as more and more hybrid models get out there, they gain mindshare and greater consciousness.
Increasing gas prices will help the cause, not that any of us necessarily want to see that. But it might not be the worst thing for the environment, even if it hurts the wallet.
rcasel (#18) is relieved that little is changed in the interior on the HL Hybrid. The report is that the tachometer will be gone. Presumably there will be a Hybrid Synergy Drive display not unlike the one in the Prius where the tach used to live. Has to go somewhere....the Nav. system display is the other place to put it, but if the Nav. system is an option package then the tach has to go.
Design basics:
Here is an Edmunds/NY Times press piece on the approach Toyota is taking:
http://autoshow.edmunds.nytimes.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /page063.html
So how do they do it without "adjusting" the vehicle very much?
Being a Camry with a tall body the engine is a little low, relatively speaking. So they can stack up the Synergy Drive gear in there without having to move any sheet metal. As for the hybrid batteries, well let's just say we should not expect a 3rd seat version of the HL Hybrid. The spare tire got bottom-mounted in 2004 so the 3rd seat could be squeezed (and I do mean squeezed) in. What a nice rectangular place for a battery pack instead.
Look at this slideshow from the same source. Engine bay is now full, no sign of a third seat, but the HL Hybrid looks just like a HL. Only the rear badging and what looks like a new slot along the upper front bumper will distinquish it from its non-hybrid siblings.
http://autoshow.edmunds.nytimes.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916- /page021.html?tid=nytimes.e.autoshow..leftnav.22.*
One can expect the pricing premium to be significant unless they really gear up the output. After all, if you could get this version for just $1000 over the non-Hybrid V6, who would want the other one? Look for $3000 premium, and they will probably option it up, too. Both this and the RX400H (Lexus RX Hybrid) are aimed not at the Prius end of the market, these are aimed at the FX45 end. Power, power, power. Only with politically correct fuel economy, too.
Why did they not do a Hybrid number on the 4 cylinder HL? That could probably deliver almost 200HP and the mileage would be about 40City/38Hwy. We like our power and I think Toyota read the market just right by doing the V6 Hybrid.
For those who think a $3K Hybrid price premium is a bad thing? Imagine what our old HL will be worth if Toyota prices the HL Hybrid about the same as the regular V6? Imagine our HL V6's being seen as gas guzzlers someday. I guess the HL 4-cyl owners already think that. So how much gas do we have to save to overcome the price premium?
The key is the volume Toyota sets up for. Go over to the Prius "Prices Paid and Buying Exper." board at Edmunds. It is not pretty in Praying-for-My-Prius-to-Arrive Land. Toyota would love to build them faster but either the factory or the suppliers have them stuck at the current build-rate and it is too slow.
So put your money down now and prepare to bend over in a year. And like it. Prius owners do grin a lot.
A tachometer is completely useless in a HSD system, since there is nothing you can do with the data it would provide. It would only serve to entertain, no practical purpose. Since there aren't any gears and electric motors are at peak power no matter what the RPM... You get the idea. The gauge on the Consumption screen is far more informative in a full hybrid.
While driving along, you'll see the RPM change all by itself without effecting speed. That's good. The system is taking advantage of efficiency opportunities. Counteracting what you see happening would be counterproductive.
> well let's just say we should not expect a 3rd seat version
> of the HL Hybrid
It has already been stated that there will be seating for 7.
> Why did they not do a Hybrid number on the 4 cylinder HL?
Patience, grasshopper. The more powerful one is being released first. The other will follow. In our power-obsessed market, that is unquestionably the better approach for proving the HSD design is capable of many power/efficiency configurations.
JOHN
Dude- you need to check some facts and read other posts on this board.
Check out the basics:
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2004/01/04-3-hibridhighl- ander.html
and read #18 and go to that site and look at the pics... 3rd row seat.
Now I'm thinking, "Hmmm.... With most of the same options, a fully-decked out Highlander would be, wht $5K less? $8K less?.... And doesn't the cargo area of the HL hold much more stuff anyway.... Then there is the much cheaper service at Toyota dealers vs. Lexus dealers...."
What do you all think?
And how can I get a pre-order in super early? My Infiniti lease ends in January....
Uh, bob? Knock,Knock... Who cares if gasoline is 50 cents a gallon, it's a diminishing resource. Some people believe in "every little bit counts", and for Toyota, it's only the beginning. I'm not a environmentalist freak, but I do care about preserving our resources and not relying on foriegn sources. Here we have Hybrid technology at around $20,000 available for the masses. "Masses" Bob, people not able or willing to fork over 50 grand on a dog turd like an Escalade or a Suburban.
"For Toyota, it was a huge, huge, immeasurably valuable PR coup," said Lutz. GM's decision not to pursue a hybrid car "was a mistake from one aspect, and that's public relations and catering to the environmental movement."
PR coup?!?!? once again, GM got caught with their pants to the floor, Toyota is going to gain even more market share, and in five years your going to realize there's more to it than PR. moron.
The standard wheels are 16"? Isn't that small for an SUV? RX has option for 18" wheels.
Wonder if they'll put 16" wheels on the hybrid. Some complaints on the Prius board about the size of the Prius wheels/tires.
That being said, Bob might be missing the performance attraction of hybrid technology; that, and the possiblity of a dollar collapse making oil more expensive (along with gold, steel, etc.).
Powerseat: You can get a power driver seat (not passenger seat) on the base Highlander. You get both a power driver and passenger seat on the Limited.
Wheels: HL has 16" wheels on the base, 17" on the Limited. RX has 17" on base, 18" optional. Prius owners complaining about the size of the wheel? Small wheels w/ narrow tires = higher fuel economy. You can't have everything. My guess is that they will stick with the 16" on the Hybrid.
Toyota already announce the HL hybrid will have 17" alloy wheels.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_photo.html?recn- um=005566