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So, the HYBRID HL will almost certainly *never* use the 5-speed auto.
HLH=Highlander Hybrid.
This board is about HLH. HLH will not have auto 5-speed. HLH will have HSD electronically controlled planetary CVT which is superior.
Dennis
- mj1850
4 cyl HL: 4 speed transmission
V6 HL 01-03: 4 speed transmission
V6 HL 04: 5 speed transmission
HLH: Electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT)
There has been a ton of anti-hybrid press lately, stuff that is just blantantly incorrect. So the odds of this being just a rumor is extremely high. It could also be a misunderstanding, where outdated information has resurfaced or been matched to the wrong vehicle.
Prove your claim.
JOHN
Prove the claim!!!!! Call your Lexus dealer-I can't give out any names or phone numbers here as it is against the rules. As a post script, I never thought the forum was for proving claims, just for passing on what we hear from our respective dealers and to ask questions..
So until a comment can be backed up, it is considered a rumor.
That's just a fact of life, no offense intended.
Remember, not everything is nationwide either. Some things only apply to specific regions. So it is valid to ask for details for the original source anyway.
JOHN
This is from very large dealers in L.A. area. Longo, Santa Monica, Manhatten Beach, and Torrance. Stories all the same.
BTW: Just rented an '04 Prius for the weekend and really liked it. MPG 49.2 250 miles over Grapevine with AC. 50.4 back same 250 via 101. ~65 on a short 20 mile city commute. Testing the non-HB Highlander next weekend. I love the rental program...
Of course, the Highlander review on this very site thinks otherwise. So I may be wrong.
Steve
Towing Prep Package - includes transmission oil cooler, trailer prewiring harness and 3,500-lb towing capacity.
Dennis
My dealer told me ahead of time the trailer connection wouldn't be there. However, they are installing an after-market hitch and providing a wiring harness.
The Highlander Hybrid uses the current body with a new grille, front bumper and LED taillights. On the usual Toyota schedule, you would expect a new body in 2006, but who knows?
I'm sure hybrids will be competitive in the future, but I will wait another automotive generation (for me, about 3-4 years) before looking seriously.
For example, many people are currently willing to pay a premium for a more powerful engine even if it HURTS the economic picture; automakers and car buyers have been playing that game for years. To wit, the V6 of most sedans costs more AND gets worse mileage than the 4-cyl. version--yet you don't see people clamoring that automakers shouldn't charge more for the V6, and lots of people are willing to pay that markup.
What one should get with the Hybrid Highlander is essentially V8 performance, but with LESS time and money spent at the pump rather than more. If improved performance but WORSE gas economy is worth paying a markup for, shouldn't improved performance and BETTER fuel economy be worth an even larger markup?
In addition, some people also like the idea of going from a small car with good mileage to something as big as a Highlander without suddenly having a larger environmental impact. That's worth paying for to many buyers, I would guess.
But even the economics of it aren't all that bad. My earlier calculation (post #106) here shows that the fuel savings can easily be in the ballpark of $4000 over seven years, and that's with a generously conservative gas price estimate of $2.50/gallon (since the gas price used should be the *average* gas price over that run, not the current gas price, and $2.50 is the current price in many markets). Yes, the total markup will probably exceed $4K, but not by a lot.
That said, I (or, more accurately, my wife) will still wait for the 2006 to get the first-year kinks worked out...
Also, you are not calculating the "out years" issues regarding the battery. An old Toyota with over 100,000 miles can continue to give the current owner many more good years of service or is worth a decent resale value if that owner wants to sell it.
A 100,000 mile hybrid with a real or pending $6000 battery replacement will be worth bupkis.
Eventually hybrids may make sense but you folks all gooey to have the early ones will pay more than you'll save. And, like everything else, I am sure they'll have many first year bugs.
Toyota is trying hard to get Prii cranked out faster than that. Part of the problem is battery supplies; part of the problem is that there's only one production facility. Both of those problems, as I understand it, are being worked through. Toyota really wants to get the Highlander onto the market, so if they're really planning to clear the Prius backlog first, this tells me that they're going to do everything in their power to double or triple production in the coming year. If that same dealer were instead receiving 15 Prii a month, their backlog would be cleared by next summer...
The money decision for some is easier than for others. Some might spend $6K or $8K for a vacation trip...a cruise or any one of many similar choices. So, a delta of $4K between a dino HL or a "Green" HL is not too significant...epecially when spread over 6 to 10 years.
Don't mean to diminish money scarcity for many here too. Money doesn't grow on trees. I would just bet the people waiting for Pruis or preordering Green HL have made choice mainly on other than money considerations.
Now, if the markup is $4K and the gas savings are $4K, it's a obviously a wash on price. But, let's say the markup really ends up costing $6K and I'm off and the gas savings is only $3K. Fine. That's a premium of $3K, so we are indeed "paying more than we'll save." You got us there.
However, don't think that we're all fooled into thinking we'll save money on the hybrid HL, and that you're so gosh-darned clever for pointing it out; neither is the case. Not everyone is interested in a hybrid strictly for saving money--a point you did not address at all.
Let's say, hypothetically based on the above calculation, that we're out something like $3K (over seven years). You imply this is just $3K thrown to the wind. I would argue that it's not, because we GET something for that money: V8 power with 4-cyl environmental impact. Some people would pay that much just for the reduced environmental impact. Some would pay that for just for 0-60 in 8 sec in the family hauler.
That combination is easily worth $3K to me, anyway. Come on, people pay more than $3K on many cars just for upgrading to a V6 over a 4-cyl, which doesn't even count the increased operating cost (gas) they incur later. Now, if you think every single buyer of a V6 when they could buy a 4-cyl is throwing their money to the wind, well, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the economics of the auto market, but many thousands of buyers every year agree with the idea of increased price for increased performance.
The battery issue certainly could complicate the calculations, but right now I see no evidence that what you suggest about resale will actually come to pass--but I admit there is some risk. I'm willing to take that risk because the total package is otherwise a great deal in my book.
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The loud and clear message would be: even more domestic oil producers going out of business at $1.00/gallon gas, and OPEC gets to take up even greater per centage of total oil consumption because of their low cost of production.
Back to the HH, how many pounds (of weight), does the battery add? And what about the run-length duration? 'cuz the Atkinson Cycle ICE would be relatively weak on torque and how does long hill climbing work? I was very excited about HH, then I realized how long the wait would be and got a dino V6, so to speak.