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Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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Comments

  • shuedshued Member Posts: 107
    Any one has any idea that when HL will use 5 speed auto-transmission, such as the 2004 Sienna has? Now both of HL and Sienna have 3.3 engine?
  • sunbyrnesunbyrne Member Posts: 210
    The hybrid highlander uses Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive, which does not have a conventional transmission at all. It has something which many people label a CVT, but even that's not quite accurate.

    So, the HYBRID HL will almost certainly *never* use the 5-speed auto.
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    To clarify, the regular V6 Highlander comes with a 5-speed auto (4-cylinders come with a 4-speed auto). The Hybrid HL will almost definitely use Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive transmission, and not the conventional 5-speed auto.
  • shuedshued Member Posts: 107
    I have check at KBB and here, and the information said that even regular HL with V6 use 4-speed auto. Can someone with V6 HL can confirm this info?
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    HL=Highlander
    HLH=Highlander Hybrid.

    This board is about HLH. HLH will not have auto 5-speed. HLH will have HSD electronically controlled planetary CVT which is superior.

    Dennis
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Until we see how the HSD performs under the heavier loads and different usage of the HLH, we won't know if it is "superior"...
  • mj1850mj1850 Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I are planning to purchase our new car. We just migrated to the US and needs a vehicle ASAP. I'll be using this vehicle for my work which is basically just to bring me around town. I've used a corolla '94 since and it never gave me problems other than due to my own negligence. My question is would I buy/lease a corolla or '04 HL now and later trade it in for the hybrid HL when it becomes available. Bottom line is I don't wamt to lose too much money just to have a hybrid HL. What are your views? Any suggestions? Thanks
    - mj1850
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    Why spend 25 or 30 grand on a HL when you could get a HCH or Prius hybrid and not loose money. Do you need/want a HL or HLH for around town use ?
  • mj1850mj1850 Member Posts: 2
    well I guess we really want a bigger vehicle and we could only have one vehicle for now, and besides my work will provide me a car after a couple of months... if I did'nt need a transpo this urgent, I'll surely wait for the HLH release
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    Shued, you should probably go to the regular Highlander board with non-hybrid questions, but I can tell you that the 2004 V6 Highlander uses a 5 speed transmission. I have the Toyota materials right in front of me at the moment. The 4-cyl uses a 4-speed trans.
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    As of this writing, my local Toyota dealership has sold their entire years allocation of Hybrid Highlanders. I wonder if this is true across the country (I'm in the Twin Cities). They said the interest here is overwhelming.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That is truly amazing, considering that dealers I talked to only started taking names for the HLH a couple of months ago!
  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    You should probably go to the regular Highlander board with non-hybrid questions, but nonetheless clarification on HL transmissions:

    4 cyl HL: 4 speed transmission
    V6 HL 01-03: 4 speed transmission
    V6 HL 04: 5 speed transmission
    HLH: Electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Anyone know what towing capacity the CVT will have for the HLH?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the dealer already sold out their 2005 Highlander Hybrid inventory? That's quick. When do they start taking orders for 2006 models?
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Initial reports on the Hybrid Escape list 1000 lbs towing capacity. That vehicle has a 4 cylinder engine plus HSD. Normal Escape is 3500 lbs, if I remember correctly...
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    What is anybody else hearing about the release date? I've heard "no new information from Toyota, but the release date will probably be delayed from what was originally planned".
  • silvereagle2silvereagle2 Member Posts: 23
    Hi, Read my remarks at the Lexus 400h site here. Toyota/Lexus is having a problem with getting the desired ammount of power out of the batteries and motor. My Lexus dealer told me yesterday the launch of the 400h will delayed until next summer! If that is so, the Highlander launch has to be delayed too.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > Toyota/Lexus is having a problem with getting the desired ammount of power out of the batteries and motor.

    There has been a ton of anti-hybrid press lately, stuff that is just blantantly incorrect. So the odds of this being just a rumor is extremely high. It could also be a misunderstanding, where outdated information has resurfaced or been matched to the wrong vehicle.

    Prove your claim.

    JOHN
  • silvereagle2silvereagle2 Member Posts: 23
    John, I've been dealing with my Lexus dealer for 10 years now and have a long relationship with this service director. He was aware that my wife is ordering a 400h. He said many of their loyal customers were disappointed when the dealership passed the word on about the delay. This happens to be the largest Lexus dealer in the country and I doubt that they are blowing smoke up anyone's tail pipe.
    Prove the claim!!!!! Call your Lexus dealer-I can't give out any names or phone numbers here as it is against the rules. As a post script, I never thought the forum was for proving claims, just for passing on what we hear from our respective dealers and to ask questions..
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Having dealt with Prius for over 4 years now, I can point out a number of times when dealer information was not correct.

    So until a comment can be backed up, it is considered a rumor.

    That's just a fact of life, no offense intended.

    Remember, not everything is nationwide either. Some things only apply to specific regions. So it is valid to ask for details for the original source anyway.

    JOHN
  • beachgrubbeachgrub Member Posts: 1
    Current wait for a Prius among several local dealers I checked is 6-8 months (now 05 model). The 3 that were taking HLH orders expect the have them much before the Prius waits are filled. I was told late Oct - early Nov. The order list is < 10 for HLH.

    This is from very large dealers in L.A. area. Longo, Santa Monica, Manhatten Beach, and Torrance. Stories all the same.

    BTW: Just rented an '04 Prius for the weekend and really liked it. MPG 49.2 250 miles over Grapevine with AC. 50.4 back same 250 via 101. ~65 on a short 20 mile city commute. Testing the non-HB Highlander next weekend. I love the rental program... :)
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    Does anyone know if the 05 HL (hybrid or gas) will be built on the current camry platform? As far as I know, it's built on the last generation platform. The RX330 and the Sienna switched to the current platform last year. Could a redesign be in the works? The pics I've seen of the prototype look just like the current HL. My dealer doesn't know anything- he says toyota is not saying anything to them (he also says many of his customers know before he does).
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Logically speaking, a redesign is likely in the works. It wouldn't be like Toyota to waste money by releasing a hybrid in the old design... then reintroducing a new model 6 months later. Even though the hybrid prototype is with the current platform, it doesn't seem to add up. I'm waiting until the fall before committing to a purchase. Hopefully the new model (whenever it's released) won't be too large. A little less boxy is all I'm looking for.
  • akat2000akat2000 Member Posts: 4
    Isn't the current Highlander already based on the current camry platform? My understanding is that it got it before the RX and Sienna (and even Camry) did. See, for instance, http://lang.motorway.com/home/articles/camryhopes.asp.

    Of course, the Highlander review on this very site thinks otherwise. So I may be wrong.
  • stevemnstevemn Member Posts: 1
    I discussed at length with a Toyota Dealer here in Minneapolis about towing capacity of the 2005 Hybrid Highlander. He mentioned that the current HL can tow 3500 lbs. He showed me that Toyota states that the new Hy-HL will make no compromises over the standard HL. That would mean that it should have the SAME towing capacity of 3500 lbs. You can check it out on Toyota.com - future vehicles - highlander hybrid - FAQ.

    Steve
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    From the Options:

    Towing Prep Package - includes transmission oil cooler, trailer prewiring harness and 3,500-lb towing capacity.

    Dennis
  • fizbanfizban Member Posts: 42
    The owner's manual is incorrect with regards to the harness (it also shows a DVD player which isn't an option on the Hybrid). I suspect they simply rewrote the non-hybrid model's manual and some things just weren't known at press time.
    My dealer told me ahead of time the trailer connection wouldn't be there. However, they are installing an after-market hitch and providing a wiring harness.
  • toycashtoycash Member Posts: 139
    The Highlander is on the current Camry platform. Note that the wheelbase on the RX330 is now identical (106.9") to the Highlander.

    The Highlander Hybrid uses the current body with a new grille, front bumper and LED taillights. On the usual Toyota schedule, you would expect a new body in 2006, but who knows?
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Other than it's something new, I don't see it. The cost of the vehicle, especially considering you can buy gas vehicles with a discount but the hybrid will go for full sticker...doesn't justify the roughly double the MPGs. And there is still a lot of uncertainty about what happens when the vehicle gets older. Right now an 8 year, 100,000 Toyota still has a pretty decent resale value. One with a potential $6000 battery bill will be worthless.

    I'm sure hybrids will be competitive in the future, but I will wait another automotive generation (for me, about 3-4 years) before looking seriously.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    I'd like to see some validity to the "$6000.00" battery bill. That doesn't make sense.
  • sunbyrnesunbyrne Member Posts: 210
    daryl44, saving money over the long-term on gas is not the only reason people would buy a hybrid--it's not entirely about that aspect of the economics.

    For example, many people are currently willing to pay a premium for a more powerful engine even if it HURTS the economic picture; automakers and car buyers have been playing that game for years. To wit, the V6 of most sedans costs more AND gets worse mileage than the 4-cyl. version--yet you don't see people clamoring that automakers shouldn't charge more for the V6, and lots of people are willing to pay that markup.

    What one should get with the Hybrid Highlander is essentially V8 performance, but with LESS time and money spent at the pump rather than more. If improved performance but WORSE gas economy is worth paying a markup for, shouldn't improved performance and BETTER fuel economy be worth an even larger markup?

    In addition, some people also like the idea of going from a small car with good mileage to something as big as a Highlander without suddenly having a larger environmental impact. That's worth paying for to many buyers, I would guess.

    But even the economics of it aren't all that bad. My earlier calculation (post #106) here shows that the fuel savings can easily be in the ballpark of $4000 over seven years, and that's with a generously conservative gas price estimate of $2.50/gallon (since the gas price used should be the *average* gas price over that run, not the current gas price, and $2.50 is the current price in many markets). Yes, the total markup will probably exceed $4K, but not by a lot.

    That said, I (or, more accurately, my wife) will still wait for the 2006 to get the first-year kinks worked out...
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    conservative estimate. Yes, the doomsdayers are claiming we are running out of oil. And, yes, this could really be it, this time. But there's an even greater chance that gas prices will revert to some much lower level, say, $1.50/gal, which is what has happened every time we've had spikes during these past 31 years since the first oil crisis.

    Also, you are not calculating the "out years" issues regarding the battery. An old Toyota with over 100,000 miles can continue to give the current owner many more good years of service or is worth a decent resale value if that owner wants to sell it.

    A 100,000 mile hybrid with a real or pending $6000 battery replacement will be worth bupkis.

    Eventually hybrids may make sense but you folks all gooey to have the early ones will pay more than you'll save. And, like everything else, I am sure they'll have many first year bugs.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Like Sylvia, I would like to see some substantiation for a hybrid battery costing $6000 five to ten years from now--which is when the warranty will expire on most of the hybrids purchased today.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    People like to estimate stuff but then have no substantiation to support it. There is NO way a battery pack is going to cost $6,000. Truth be told, there are many many Prii on the road and I have not heard of any battery problems whatsoever.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    If the issue about the battery is going to continue - let's do it over in the discussion The Great Battery Debate If it continues here, I'll simply move the sub-thread of battery posts to the battery discussion.
  • grk701grk701 Member Posts: 5
    I just received an email from dealer that says that due to problems with suppliers to the Prius, the Highlander will be delayed. He indicated all wait-list Prius buyers will be served prior to the H'Lander. This dealership told me that the first H'Lander received in the new year will be held as a demo with subsequent vehicles not due until summer '05. I have been on the waiting list (first person on the list actually) since March '04. This is NOT good news.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, I suppose it's good news for Prius buyers. But that can't be right about "all wait-list Prius buyers will be served prior to the H'Lander." My local dealer has a 2.5 year wait list (about 140 people) for the Prius.
  • kalmikeykalmikey Member Posts: 17
    The time estimate for that wait list, however, assumes that the current supply-chain issues continue. If said local dealer is only getting 5 Prii a month, then it would take about 30 months to clear a 140 person backlog (assuming, of course, that none of those 140 are on multiple lists, change their minds, or otherwise drop off the list).

    Toyota is trying hard to get Prii cranked out faster than that. Part of the problem is battery supplies; part of the problem is that there's only one production facility. Both of those problems, as I understand it, are being worked through. Toyota really wants to get the Highlander onto the market, so if they're really planning to clear the Prius backlog first, this tells me that they're going to do everything in their power to double or triple production in the coming year. If that same dealer were instead receiving 15 Prii a month, their backlog would be cleared by next summer...
  • buckeye1buckeye1 Member Posts: 41
    For some, the decision to buy hybrid is based to a large degree on the "Green Effect" of much less air pollution from burning hydro-carbons, and, on overall impact of using less gasoline.

    The money decision for some is easier than for others. Some might spend $6K or $8K for a vacation trip...a cruise or any one of many similar choices. So, a delta of $4K between a dino HL or a "Green" HL is not too significant...epecially when spread over 6 to 10 years.

    Don't mean to diminish money scarcity for many here too. Money doesn't grow on trees. I would just bet the people waiting for Pruis or preordering Green HL have made choice mainly on other than money considerations.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    really MORE than that? Reason being, a dino Highlander can be bot with a reasonable (at least a few thou) discount from sticker while the hybrid will go for FULL sticker which is thousands more to begin with. I guess with the gummit's $1500 tax rebate that helps, but I suspect the final "apples to apples" out-the-door cost of the hybrid will be more than $4000 more than the dino.
  • sunbyrnesunbyrne Member Posts: 210
    Uhh, I'm not arguing that gas is almost $2.50/gallon now, I'm saying it is a conservative average gas price estimate given the time scale of seven years. And no, I don't buy the "we're going to run out of oil in ten years" hype, either, but it's pretty clear we're running extremely close to the nation's total refining capability, and demand has done nothing but grow in recent years, which suggests that a projected price of $2.50/gal over seven years (not just today) is not unrealistic at all. The average cost over the year 2004 will already be that much for many people, even with prices coming down some right now. Something that's a reasonable estimate for lots of people in 2004 alone is too high over the 2005-2012 window? I highly doubt it. It's certainly more realistic than the $6K number for the battery which you still haven't substantiated in any way.

    Now, if the markup is $4K and the gas savings are $4K, it's a obviously a wash on price. But, let's say the markup really ends up costing $6K and I'm off and the gas savings is only $3K. Fine. That's a premium of $3K, so we are indeed "paying more than we'll save." You got us there.

    However, don't think that we're all fooled into thinking we'll save money on the hybrid HL, and that you're so gosh-darned clever for pointing it out; neither is the case. Not everyone is interested in a hybrid strictly for saving money--a point you did not address at all.

    Let's say, hypothetically based on the above calculation, that we're out something like $3K (over seven years). You imply this is just $3K thrown to the wind. I would argue that it's not, because we GET something for that money: V8 power with 4-cyl environmental impact. Some people would pay that much just for the reduced environmental impact. Some would pay that for just for 0-60 in 8 sec in the family hauler.

    That combination is easily worth $3K to me, anyway. Come on, people pay more than $3K on many cars just for upgrading to a V6 over a 4-cyl, which doesn't even count the increased operating cost (gas) they incur later. Now, if you think every single buyer of a V6 when they could buy a 4-cyl is throwing their money to the wind, well, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the economics of the auto market, but many thousands of buyers every year agree with the idea of increased price for increased performance.

    The battery issue certainly could complicate the calculations, but right now I see no evidence that what you suggest about resale will actually come to pass--but I admit there is some risk. I'm willing to take that risk because the total package is otherwise a great deal in my book.
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    I agree with sunbyrne and would add that even if it turns out to cost a little more money in the end at least we're sending a message to OPEC that there's new technology out there and we're not afraid to use it. If just 5 % of us did that we'd probably be paying $ 1.00 a gallon at the pumps by this time next year as opposed to what we just did when the price went up and demand stayed the same, the message to the rest of the world (including OPEC) was loud and clear ...
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,142
    Let's really try to stick to talking about the upcoming Highlander in here. There are many discussions on the Hybrid Vehicles board where we can discuss the arguments for/against buying hybrids in general. Thanks!

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  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    If just 5 % of us did that we'd probably be paying $ 1.00 a gallon at the pumps by this time next year as opposed to what we just did when the price went up and demand stayed the same, the message to the rest of the world (including OPEC) was loud and clear ...


    The loud and clear message would be: even more domestic oil producers going out of business at $1.00/gallon gas, and OPEC gets to take up even greater per centage of total oil consumption because of their low cost of production.

    Back to the HH, how many pounds (of weight), does the battery add? And what about the run-length duration? 'cuz the Atkinson Cycle ICE would be relatively weak on torque and how does long hill climbing work? I was very excited about HH, then I realized how long the wait would be and got a dino V6, so to speak.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    or posts will be moved or deleted. This discussion is about the upcoming Hybrid Toyota Highlander, not gas prices.
  • sunbyrnesunbyrne Member Posts: 210
    Err, if someone is asking questions about the economics of the Hybrid Highlander, how can we NOT talk about gas prices?
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    a hybrid Highlander, how far back on the list would they be and what is the current expected date of delivery?
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    One or two comments are fine...but if you go off on a bender, that is not.
  • sunbyrnesunbyrne Member Posts: 210
    Fair enough. :-)
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