Toyota Highlander Hybrid

angelsrider

Hi, all. I am new to the discussion, but wanted to get involved in the debate here. I went to a local dealer yesterday to get more info. on the hybrid Highlander. They told me it's due in their dealership (Westminster, MD) in Feb 2005. They did not know the MSRP, the estimated MPG, whether it had the 3rd row seat. I asked to get on the waiting list, but they wanted $100 to do it. Said no to the money, so the guy said he'd put me on anyway but those with deposits would get one first. Is this typical? Do the dealers really not know what is going on with Toyota?

backy

Some do and some don't. I got lucky with the salesperson who I worked with on a Prius. He was not only an engineer by training and knew tons about the Prius (and the other Toyotas), he is also in charge of training the other salespeople at the dealership. But some have no clue.

ssachnoff

I have been trading voicemail messages with a dealer in suburban chicago about 2005 HL. I chose this dealer because I bought a 2000 Camry from them in September of 2001. The Camry is fine but I'm looking to replace a dying 1994 Plymouth Voyager.

"Zach" says he has put me on "the list." I have given him my credit card number but no charge ever appeared on my statement. I called him about this as I would prefer that they charge my card so I have some proof that I have paid something to have a priority when these vehicles finally come out. He called me back and left a message saying that they have not charged anyone's credit card on the list due to "uncertainties about release dates." I have not been able to get him to elaborate on this statement yet. This comports with other rumors I have seen mentioned on this site that the early 2005 release date is being pushed back further into 2005.

It seems to me that it's every dealer for themselves on this with no set policy from Toyota about charging for list placement, priority, preference for or waiting till Prius orders are up to date or whatever.

Has that been other people's experience, as well?

Sylvia

TODAY/Tuesday

3-4pm EST
noon-1pm PST
Hybrid Chat Room

backy

I think you should be glad the dealer did not charge your credit card. Mine didn't either, for the Prius, and I appreciated that. Who knows how long you would be w/o your money? They should be able to give you other proof of your standing on the list. My dealer showed me the printed list for the Prius whenever I asked to see it and later started sending out via email a spreadsheet with the list details each week. I also got multiple letters from Toyota confirming I am on the wait list.

carguy1234

Backy - wow, you still don't have your Prius yet? They sure are stringing you out. I thought you were slated to receive one months ago.

For me, they did charge my credit card for the Highlander Hybrid pre-order back in March. I was supposed to go through all the pricing details and order specifics (packages, etc) in June, but as it stands now, the dealership seems to know nothing about the release. No new information is available (at least that's the last I've been told). They did say that their entire years allocation is already sold out (at this paticular dealership).

backy

My Prius did come in, but that is not an appropriate topic for this discussion. I'll cover that story in the Prius discussion when I have time--which I don't have much of for awhile with a lot of work and overseas travel.

02hl

You also have to consider the hybrid's trendiness. Movie stars are publicly admitting they drive and love them. This doesn't hurt the market for demand. I would bet that many people on the list to get their hybrids will turn around and resell then for a higher margin. Kind of like the Lexus SC430 when first launched and many other high-end cars. This trend does not happen often in the low to mid-range vehicles. Everyone's in a frenzy.

Toyota has done a great job with the technoloy but it is still a new technology. Everyone getting the hybrids now are the "bug busters." I'll wait until the technology becomes more dependable and less expensive.

john1701a

> I'll wait until the technology becomes more dependable

What exactly does that mean?

Please define what "more" is intended to represent.

Prius (soon to begin year #8 of production) has already surpassed the reliability of the typical vehicle. But then again, most Toyota vehicles do anyway. How much "more" do you want?

JOHN

toycash

The reason that many salespeople don't know much about the Highlander Hybrid, is because thats how much info has come directly from Toyota, not much! There's more info on Toyota's website, than what they've given to salespeople. There is no official release date yet, no pricing info, or detailed option info. There will be a third seat available.

gagrice

This is from Toyota, It may explain some of the delay in the other models of Hybrid.
Toyota's initial production estimates for the Prius for the 2004 calendar year were 36,000 vehicles for the U.S. That number was increased to 47,000 vehicles shortly after the Prius went on sale. The Prius plant and component sources are at maximum capacity, and we regret that waiting lists at dealerships can be several months or longer. The current backorder remains about 22,000 and we're working with the factory in Japan to see if the U.S. can receive more allocation of vehicles.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20040623

rag

We went to a toyota dealer in Westchester NY today and was told the HL will be available as of March 2005. He couldn't give any detail on it because they "Haven't gone to school" for it yet. They will have a waiting list when appropriate. The waiting list for the Prius needed a deposit of $3000.00. Refundable if you change your mind. Best thing to do as with all car purchases is shop around.

gagrice

$3000 to get in line for a Prius? That sounds stiff. Hope the dealer doesn't go broke before the cars get there. I wouldn't trust a car dealer with a $3k deposit on any brand of car. I wonder if they are required to set up an escrow account like realtors? With that kind of deposit they should have to.

silvereagle2

I was going to buy a Lexus 400h for my wife, but decided to buy a 330. My dealer told me it would be the summer of 05 before it comes out and at a hefty premium. He told me I'd have to drive a few hundred thousand miles to make up the cost differential. If anyone thinks gas will go down to $1 a gallon in one year is dreaming. The demand for oil is exploding in China and other countries as they develop their economies. Those countries will not worry about energy conservation. Look at all the off the road vehicles in the USA, do you think those owners really worry about fuel prices!

toycash

Nothing on the record yet, but hearing Highlander Hybrid will not be out until late summer or fall of '05.

carguy1234

That would make more sense, and have it come out as a 2006 model then (Vs a late release as a 2005 model).

thetruth1

Lexus has officially announced it will not deliver the new Hybrid RX400h until February 05. That means the Highlander will be some time after that. And, of course, you can bet that February means March, at least.

I have a deposit (I'm #1 in line) at my dealer for a Highlander Hybrid, but I'm thinking pretty seriously about just buying a V6 Highlander. I really don't want to wait another year, with the certainty that the Hybrid will be at least $3500 more than the V6 MSRP (even Ford has announced it will be about that for their Hybrid). The problem is, by the time you pay full MSRP for a Hybrid, versus a discounted good deal for a V6 ( I can get it for not much more than invoice), I'd guess we're looking at around a $6000 differential. So, the $3500 (or more) extra for the Hybrid in reality becomes a lot more. There is simply no way, even if gas DOUBLED in price to near $4 a gallon, that a $6000 differential pencils out. At $2.50 a gallon, it would never work out (the life of the car will be long gone).

rfruth

Hope its a refundable deposit or good for any other Toyota, must have been a slick sales pitch for you to put down money on it when the math didn't work, the sales critters I get know precious little about their products, it makes me wonder how on earth they will sell them.

gagrice

And that is the Truth number one. Some people are getting wise, glad to see the voice of reason from time to time.

toycash

Don't forget though, that the Hybrid will have better performance than the V6 and have lower emissions too.

gagrice

There is more to performance than straight ahead acceleration. Will it handle good with a different balance? How will it work offroad, not that any of them ever go offroad? We will not know until they are out there and people start to report back. I know I would not pay extra to be a guinea pig. They should sell them for the same price and use a drawing system for the first 10,000 units. When all the bugs are ironed out and people are raving about them put them out at the higher price. Of course that is risky they may be a big flop.

2003tls

Such are the problems with being an early adopter. You are the first on the block, with the good and the bad.

stevedebi

Hmmm, Toyota says two different things in their press releases about the delay. First, they say they want to build up inventory. OK, but then they say this will give their engineers time to further refine the designs. Uh, don't they have to finish the designing before they produce the cars?

Seems a bit contradictory...

brightness04

That's the exact math that I had and picked up a V6 AWD LTD back at the end of April. I figured, I might as well have my car now while wait for the next body redesign in 2-3 yrs max and get HH version 2.0 instead after the bugs work out in ver 1.x.

gagrice

Smart thinking your name fits you. Let someone else be a guinea pig, or is that a lab rat?

fis

thetruth1 is right. Fuel economy alone doesn't justify this purchase. There are 3 possible rationalizations for being first in line to pay a premium for this car:

1) You need a good-sized car, and commute every day into a congested city that allows Hybrid vehicles to use the HOV lanes

2) You have some true need for AWD capability but are passionate about the environment and object to traditional SUVs

3) If it turns out the car really performs much better than other cars in its class, and that's important to you.

kenworthy

Hey stevedebi where did you see the press release? I was out on Toyota's website but couldn't find anything about the new release date.

My wife and I put a $500.00 deposit down and we are 16th in line at our cincinnati dealership.

katedv

I love toyotas but the past three cars I've bought have been US made, mostly due to Toyota's attitude. I was very interested in the Highlander Hybrid, but it seems that Toyota is up to its old tricks by limiting supply and hyping demand by using wait lists that require deposits and other ways of manipulating people. Guess I'll have to change my mind, as I won't be pressured into paying MORE than list price for any car, let alone an untried new model.

stevedebi

Drat. Can't find it. I think it was on a website which I cannot name because of the Town Hall user agreements.

Here is the release on the Lexus:
http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt.jsp?section=news&news_- id=dji-00084820040803&feed=dji&date=20040803&cat=INDU- STRY

toycash

Welcome to the free market system. If you feel that way, you have the right to not buy one. Toyota is not purposely limiting supply, there is limited availability of the components necessary to make the hybrids, and Toyota does not want to over commit to their suppliers, and end up sitting on a pile of unsold parts. Were they too conservative on their estimate of Prius demand? Obviously they were, I'm sure they didn't want 6-12 month waiting lists at dealers. Toyota makes a flat dollar amount on the cars they wholesale to their franchised dealers, so there is absolutely no benefit to Toyota when a dealer makes excess profit on a car.

xcel

Hi Toycash:

___So you were in a high level Toyota exec meeting listening to the overall hybrid production numbers and supply constraint complaints to prove this? I take another viewpoint but neither of us have any proof one way or the other. At least Prius II production appears to be moving up to 70,000 + from 46,000 as previously announced.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

gagrice

"When the all-new second-generation Prius was launched in mid-October of last year, we had an annual sales plan of about 36,000 units,"

It looks like the Prius shortages will continue into 2005. Unless more people get tired of waiting and purchase a different car. Toyota does not plan to increase production until the first half of 2005.

http://www.toyota.com/about/news/manufacturing/2004/08/03-1-prius- .html

toycash

So anyway, the Highlander Hybrid won't be out until summer. Whatever people think the conspiracy is, that's the fact. If you want one, put down a deposit. If you don't, don't!

edpmedic

Thats funny I just spoke to a dealer Niel Toyota and was told they will be out in December. I was also told I didn't need to put a deposit down and they will be priced around $31-$35,000.
I am looking to buy a new vehicle thats how I came to this site.
I have been getting quotes together and am interested in the Highlander Hybrid. So am I getting the wrong answer or is this the Dealer BS to get me in? I was going to go this week to start looking around NY then NJ and if I have to PA for some deals.

michael2003

The Hybrid display at the Toyota Web Site indicates the vehicle will be available early 2005. I guess this could mean sometime before July /05.

nwalsh

I've read the messages here with interest as I love the Highlander, and a hybrid version would just be icing on the cake.

I called two dealers in my area. One said they won't even start a waiting list until they have pricing. They thought they might get pricing from Toyota around Feb 2005. The other one already has 20 names on a list, each of which has paid a $1000 deposit. They said they were only expecting like 5 of the hybrids for the year 2005 (and didn't really say when) so they stopped taking names. Luckily I'm not looking to buy for at least 4 more years - but wondering when I should get my name on a list somewhere!

-Nancy

Kirstie_H

Hopefully, by the time you're ready to buy there will be plenty of other hybrid SUVs on the market, and the days of waiting lists for these vehicles will be gone! The difficulties now are in production, due to the limited number of companies that produce batteries (and possibly other parts), but usually where there's money to be made, companies try to fill that market. I'm hoping that within the next few years, production will not be limited by supply availability.

sapphireblue

I've been shopping for a sport wagon or small SUV (up to the Highlander's size) for my next car. I originally intended to get my new (or new-to-me) car in October or November ... as I'm not sure how my '94 Escort will handle another winter.

But some early 2005 models intrigue me ... the '05 HH being one of them. And I'm wondering whether if, upon testing other vehicles and picking the Highlander to be the top or in the top two choices ... whether I should wait for the HH or not.

Traditionally I've heard that you give new models a year or two to work out any "kinks" and have better reviews/studies of reliability. We could do that, I guess, if I opted instead for a sedan and then we got a HH when my husband's car needs replacing in ~3 years.

But there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm behind the HH ... and a lot of people looking to get on waiting lists and/or be first in line to get the HH when they arrive at dealerships.

So is the HH an exception to the "wait a while and see" rule? Or is it more that the HH offers the first hybrid mid-sized SUV and people are eager to snatch one up vs. deal with long order waits (accidental or intentional) like have befallen the Prius?

Other cars currently under consideration are all gas-only ... Freestyle, (regular) Highlander, Matrix, Passat Wagon, Forester/Outback, 6 Wagon...

Thanks all,
Deb

cmuniz

I have a friend that has a Prius and really likes it. Toyota does a good job with new models but there is always a risk. The bigger problem is actually getting one, especially if you are concerned about your current car holding up. Right now there are only estimates of when it will be ready and already there are huge lines. That means a long wait and high prices. Unless you are intent on making an enviromental statement, a hybrid does not make economic sense at this point. The other vehicles on your list all sound like good choices (not sure about the Freestyle)and would be more economical. We have a V6 Highlander and a Forester XT and would recommend either.

stevedebi

In my opinion the bigger risk is the results on MPG that the Hybrid technology will bring to an SUV. With the larger frontal area, lower Cd, larger base engine, and heavier vehicle weight, the technology may not be all that people are expecting after seeing the spectacular MPG numbers on the Prius.

Low to Mid 30's is my guess in town, mid to upper 20's on the road. Much better than a traditional SUV, but not in the Prius range. However I wouldn't be surprised if the figures were lower in "real world" driving, i.e., you have to drive any car carefully (even the Prius) to achieve maximum mileage, and most drivers won't do this.

Hopefully we will soon see some preproduction models come out and the reviewers will provide the numbers we need. But the complete MPG picture won't be known until the actual production HH comes out and people start driving it and accumulating some knowledge.

tsheppard

I talked with my dealer and he spoke with the regional manager who stated that the first units will be delivered the end of February and that there is no delay that has been brought to his attention.

raguero

I wanted to take photos of the Highlander Hybrid and the other hybrids there but they wouldn't let me (
I too like the look of the Highlander over the RX400h.

gagrice

I think the Highlander has a bit more space than the RX400 also. Did I read correctly that they are the same chassis? I wanted to like the Lexus RX when I went for a ride in my tax man's new one. It just looks garish to both my wife and myself. I would not hold my breath on seeing either one before well into next year. Until they go in house to build everything they will be held up by other manufacturers on crucial elements.

rqc

Same chasis.

ssachnoff

I can't believe it's been almost a month since the last post on this board. Especially after someone actually test drove a HH out in California. Hasn't anyone else driven one? No one has heard anymore about pricing or availability?

landdriver

I guess after all the excitement we're in a lull.

But there was a short blurb in an article in last Friday's San Jose Mercury News' (SF bay area newspaper) weekly Drive section, entitled "25 2005 Trucks To Watch," regarding the 2006 (no longer slated as a 2005 model???) HH:

'06 TOYOTA HIGHLANDER HYBRID

What it is: Another hybrid from Toyota

Tell me more: The Highlander, a car-based sport-utility that seats seven, adds hybrid technology in 2005. It'll use Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that's found in the Prius sedan. This time, however, it combines with a 3.3-liter V-6 engine to produce the equivalent of 270 horsepower, Toyota says. The Japanese automaker also promises "the best fuel economy in the mid-size SUV segment," topping 27.5 mpg in combined city-highway driving. It'll be sold as a front-wheel-drive model, with four-wheel-drive as well as side- and side-curtain air bags as options.

Quote: In Consumer Reports, Brett Smith, a senior industry analyst for the University of Michigan's Center for Automotive Research, said that gas would need to cost $3 a gallon for hybrids to become more than a niche choice. "I can't see a market beyond the 10 to 15 percent of drivers who really care a lot about fuel economy."

Matt says: Much anticipated, although some buyers might be surprised at the price.

When: Second quarter of 2005.

How much: Not announced, but expect it to cost several thousand more than gas-burning Highlander

If not, then: Ford's Escape and the Lexus RX 400h are the other hybrid SUVs.

skip1

I placed an order for one yesterday to get on the list. I was told that the number to come in will be limited and that as the Highlanders come in, I will have my choice to accept it according to my spot on the list Since the first ones will be sent out According to what is manufactured. They did take down what colors and accessories that you wanted on the car. Time frame given me was up to 9 months depending what comes in. I was number 10 on the list. I am an original Prius owner and I have been extremely happy with mine Since May 2001 when it came in

dewey

I believe the existing Toyota Highlander has been on the road since 2001. Toyota product cycles are typically five years, does anybody know if the hybid Highlander will be a new-designed model? The reason for my question is why introduce the hybrid highlander when in a short time it will be re-designed?

protocolman

I'm amazed that you were able to actually find a Toyota dealer who would take your order ...

I stopped by our local dealer here in the Temecula Valley and they knew less about the vehicle than I did. They informed me that thus far they have no pricing from the Factory and don't expect to actually take delivery of their first unit until sometime next summer.

How much may I ask did you agree to pay your dealer for the vehicle ?

Inquisitively yours,

Protocolman

sportymonk

Ev eryb ody seems to ahve a short term view of hyrbrids the same way they thought electric cars would solve the problem. Well Porche dropped development of electric cars once they determined that when the polution from generating and tranmitting the electricity was overall worse than gas fuels! Other manufacturers have done likewise.

Now to the point - In about three to four years, when all the hybrid batteries go bad, where will we literally dump all the wastes? The current battery problem is bad enough but now we will multiply many times over?

IMHO Don't think hybrids are a solution in the long term.