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So, only one spare needed.. My wife's car has staggered tires and one full-size spare that matches the front exactly, but is an acceptable substitute for the rear, as well... It only differs in width (about an inch).
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I am thinking of buying a 335i next year. I will definetely be switching out the runflats with Michelin Pilots if I get it. I guess I will have to get the tire repair kit as mentioned in the posts above, instead of a spare taking up some of the trunk.
cbanct
Are they having issues with these tires or not ?
cbanct
What is the weight difference rft to gft that Shipo refers to? I know the RFT I have off the rim has very thick side walls.
I assume performance difference is true as you have first-hand and seat-of-the-pants expierience.
RFTs: 28 pounds
GFTs: 22 pounds
I know that six pounds per corner may not sound like much, however, slung way out on the end of the axle and way out there beyond the wheel, that's a LOT of weight.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Owner6
You make a good point, but you are missing part of the computation which might make a difference in your outcome.
The spare tire with the GFT is 22 pounds, right? And it is back over the rear axle. If you take the 6lb difference * 4 you get 24lbs extra then subtract the 22lbs GFT and you are actually only adding 2 Lbs to the weight of the car.
I'm not an engineer so I don't know how moving the weight to the corners and down to the axles impacts handling but the overall weight change is not material.
Actually, no, I'm not. My point was UNSPRUNG weight not vehicle weight. The E90 cannot accommodate a spare tire and as such the car is 40 or 50 pounds lighter than it would be with a spare so the point is moot anyway. That said, the weight difference in the vehicle won't amount to a measurable or discernable difference when driving the car. Think about it, a tank of gas weighs more than twice that of a spare tire.
The flip side of course is what all of that rotating and unsprung mass does to the suspension when driving the car. The lighter the wheel and tire assembly, the lower the unsprung mass. The lower the mass, the easier it is for the suspension to accommodate road and steering transients, and the faster it and the car as a whole reacts to the various dynamic forces encountered when driving. The more spirited the drive, the greater the intensity of the dynamics that the suspension needs to deal with. So, a leisurely drive to the movie theater will most likely not encounter anything that would signal a difference to the driver, however, when bunn-huggin it through the esses, trust me, the lighter tires will be VERY noticeable.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The other thing to consider is the gyroscopic effect called precession. As mass is moved away from the axis of rotation and as said mass is increased, the tire and wheel combination start generating forces of their own as speed increases. Think about the toy gyroscope that you most likely played with as a kid (or play with when playing with your own kids). The faster that thing spins, the harder it is for you to force it in any given direction. Front tires tend to do the same thing.
Best Regards,
Shipo
And yeah, my offer stands. If Edmunds wants to play with my car, I'm game to drive up to LA one weekend. I've got simple Kumhos but the car's a different beast with them v those awful RFTs.
That last point is VERY important. Why? Simple, the DSC system cannot correct for an engine braking induced spin. I found this out the hard way one snowy evening as I was descending the hill that I lived on at the time. Said hill had a couple of good curves toward the bottom, and as was my typical pattern I had the car in 2nd gear and was just tooling along minding my own business when suddenly the backend came around on me on a left hand bend. I was initially very surprised until I figured out that the car wanted to go faster than the rear wheels were turning and said rear wheels had simply broken loose. With that realization I simply pushed in the clutch pedal and the car instantly got itself sorted and started tracking correctly again.
With the above said, the difference between a car shod with All-Season tires and Winter tires must be experienced to be appreciated. On days that would have been, ummm, nervous at best in my 328i, I was able to tool along with relative aplomb in my winter tire equipped 530i. From here on in I will have nothing but SP equipped cars and a separate set of winter wheels and tires.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Reminds me of a '70 mustang in the rain with those good 'ole 3-plys. Downshift one gear too low and the rear passes you!
You were correct. There is no center lug. The rims were extremely tight. I could not pop with my heel facing away from the wheel. I had to sit on the ground facing the wheel and alternately kick each side of the tire until they came loose.
Thank you for your direction here. The passenger rear was the one I changed when I had the flat at 5K. The BMW dealer over tightened the lugs but I got them off. I wonder why some of these mechanics can't figure out the proper torque on those air guns?
The factory installed lugs were perfectly torqued, however. I recommend hand tightening with a torque wrench after you get new tires installed at any shop.
The wear on the front tires was more worn on the inner 1/3 of the tread. The rears were even. My mileage is 11,780, so this is a bit over what you suggested considering the 300 tread wear rating on these EL42's.
Best Regards,
OW
Why?
Because an independent tire dealer told me there could be warranty issues with non-RFT e90s. This tire dealer said that two of his customers who own BMW e90s had to pay out of pocket expenses for suspension damage . Damage that really should have been covered by BMW's four year warranty.
I phoned various BMW dealers and they confirmed that there could be warranty issues with non-RFT tires. They claim the suspension of the 335i is designed specifically for RFTs.
I find it quite unfortunate that BMW would use such bunk in order to waiver certain sections of their 4 year warranty :lemon:
So based on warranty issues I feel I have little choice but to make an appointment next week to install Bridgestone Blizztak RFT snow tires at my BMW dealership
Besides which, how often do BMW suspension parts fail? Declining to do a warranty repair has to have a logical connection to the "non-factory" part. Not using stiff, non-compliant, expensive, non-repairable (but, other than that, what's not to like?) tires is not going to affect the warranty if some electrical bit packs up, or nearly anything else on the car.
The goal appears to be to scare the (let's say daylights, for the sake of propriety) out of anyone in possession of a BMW, so that they won't take it to an independent and/or touch anything, lest the warranty be declared void.
It appears to work, most everytime it's tried.
In August, Firestone was running a sale on el42's for $150 and Tire Rack had Continental RFT's for around the same price. I will skip the snows and change out to new RFT's next September. Hopefully we have more choices.
I assume BMW keeps to their plan for the 3 series and the run-flat set-up in 2007?
1) You've got no factory provided place to tie down a spare, so they cannot recommend or install regular tires. You can do it, but they can't. They have to toe the company line, but more importantly, they expose themselves to all sorts of liability if they removed the RFTs for you.
2) If you have use regular tires, tire tread shrapnel can whip around in a blowout, and yes, in severe (and very rare) cases something like a tie rod end can get bent. I myself have seen a Toyota shock absorber bent this way. And of course the wheel can scrape along the pavement. BMW would say that neither would have happened if you kept RFTs, the factory authorized part, on the car.
I don't think they could succeed in claiming that the entire warranty is void, but it certainly would affect those claims pertaining to the fitment of "unauthorized" tires. But then again, I'm not an attorney. For now, I'll call it partial BS.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
The warranty void excuse might not be total BS:
1) You've got no factory provided place to tie down a spare, so they cannot recommend or install regular tires.
Ah, M series cars don't have spares. A spare has nothing to do with running RFTs v. real tires.
You can do it, but they can't. They have to toe the company line, but more importantly, they expose themselves to all sorts of liability if they removed the RFTs for you.
Talk to M owners then. And also the people on bimmerfest who had real tires put on the car at delivery.
2) If you have use regular tires, tire tread shrapnel can whip around in a blowout, and yes, in severe (and very rare) cases something like a tie rod end can get bent. I myself have seen a Toyota shock absorber bent this way. And of course the wheel can scrape along the pavement. BMW would say that neither would have happened if you kept RFTs, the factory authorized part, on the car.
RFTs can blow too. RFTs have been known to completly fall apart, just like real tires. You guys are drinking the kool-aid...
Of course RFTs can blow, especially if driven farther or faster than the advertised range, or if the driver didn't see the low tire lamp come on. But they do it far less often than GFTs. (GFT = brilliant. Kudos to whoever thought that up.)
All I'm saying is that if a particular dealer says they won't/can't do it, it might not be total BS from their POV.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Thank you. I actually wasn't trying to get cute or nuthin', the term "Gets Flat" just seemed to fit. ;-)
That said, the concept of GFTs being used as a loophole to allow BMW and/or the dealers to deny a warranty claim for a premature failure on a strut, shock, ball-joint, tie-rod end, steering rack or any number of other suspension components is a red herring. To be sure, folks have been lowering unsprung weight (via lighter wheels and tires) on their cars for decades primarily as a means of improving handling performance for decades, and as such, we’d have heard about such warranty denials long be fore now..
Think about it this way, there are aftermarket wheels sold for BMWs and other performance oriented cars that are considerably lighter than the OEM wheels. In fact, BMW dealers themselves have been selling aftermarket wheels (manufactured by/for BMW and any number of other brands) for these cars for a LONG time, and to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a denied warranty claim based upon the wheel and tire assembly being too light.
The fact of the matter is that a lighter W&T assembly will reduce the amount work a suspension has to do to over any given road surface with any given driving dynamic. If anything, suspension components will last considerably longer with lighter GFTs mounted on an E90 than they otherwise would with RFTs.
Another reference that is of interest; for the 2006 model year (and 2007 as well?), the E60 5-Series could be configured from the factory with either RFTs or GFTs. That suspension is "tuned" for RTFs as well, however, no such warranty denial claims are being made to owners who opt for GFTs.
Best Regards,
Shipo
In general, dealers don't want you to buy parts or services anywhere else, so the warranty threat/bluff is a popular one.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
As for the RFT's, I drove my zero pressure el42 100 miles after the warning light went on and the tire is in real good condition. The sidewalls held up well. I am sure there was always a possibility that the tire could have shattered. The good thing about gft's is that when they loose pressure fast, you know it and take respective action slow and stop safely. :sick:
How low was the pressure? Was the tire totally flat (no pressure) for 100 miles or simply below the TPMS threshold (~25% low)?
If the former, you might have nearly used up the zero-pressure range. They don't run forever that way, they just disintegrate much more slowly than a normal tire. And damage would mostly be visible inside, after dismounting.
If the tire some air in it, then yeah, it might have suffered no damage and could be good to go. Hard to say.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Low tire lamp? :confuse:
Yeah. Because RFTs don't look low, a low tire warning lamp or Tire Pressure Monitor is installed on the car. BMW and Mini's outgoing system used ABS wheel speed sensors to calculate which tire was turning at a different speed due to low pressure. Other systems, and BMW's newer system, measures pressure directly with in-wheel sensors. In either case, a yellow light comes on on the dash when the pressure drops 25% below the car manufacturer's recommended tire pressure. The new US standard for the symbol is a tire cross section with an exclamation point in it. Systems made before the US standard was finalized might only alert using the driver information display.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
FWIW, my ED 330i didn't have that enabled.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
I got back in the car and proceeded 100 miles to my destination but I did feel some slight sway on the turns so when I checked the tires after the trip, and the passenger rear had no pressure. The tire is in great shape but off the car, of course.
OW
The tire shop did just that and also wrecked the rim because they did not use the proper equipment for the mag wheels. They did plug the tire because I had to wait 4 days for them to get a new tire. These tires are made really strong. I did consider running on the repaired tire but relented to the professional recommendation.
Regards,
OW
The service manager has been telling me that BMW WILL be recalling the Bridgestone RFT's, but no ETA. He has also heard rumors that they are actually designing a new tire for the 3 series, but who knows how long that will take.
He called me last week and told me that he has permission from his boss to put new tires (at their cost) on my 2006 325i, he was tired of waiting for BMW North America.
I lease my car, so I have to put RFT's back on it. He said that hands-down, the Michelin RFT's are the best. The Continentals and Bridgestones are basically crap (his words not mine). I also spoke to the manager at Discount Tire, he suggests the Michelins also. So I have my loaner and they are putting them on my car as we speak!
I'll let y'all know how they are.
All I can say to everyone with the noisy Bridgestone RFT's is keep talking to your dealership. They are getting one of us in their service bays every day and they are tired of telling us all to call BMW with no response.
My dealership has been very understanding through this situation and wanted to make the customer happy.
Thanks for your update. I was wondering about the future shoes on the 335, 328. Looks like change is underway...we'll see.
I will ask my dealership and let you know what response I get.
Regards,
OW
Owner6
I was just playing around with that on our 2006 330i last night. Easy-peasy. Just look up Flat Tire Monitor under Tires in the index of your owner's manual. Page 71 or 81, I think. Takes 5 minutes and you can do it while you drive. You do have to stop the engine, restart and begin the initialization process before you put it in gear, however.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
I am hoping that I can buy a relatively cheap set of 17" wheels and snow tires from tirerack.com. The problem with this scenario is that I don't want to have to pull the 18s off their rims to get at the pressure sensors every year. My question: What will happen if I use a set of wheels without pressure sensors installed? Will I just get a warning light? How visible will it be? Will I run into any warranty issue?
Also, can someone recommend a cheap set of wheels and appropriate size of tire that would be equivalent to the 18s so that I don't have to have the speedometer recalibrated? Is it smart to run 17s with such large sidewalls, or would it be better for me to just buy 18" snow tires? And finally, should I get a steel mini-spare wheel and tire and throw it in the trunk? Will me 328xi come with a jack, or will I need one of those as well?
And let me finalize this post by saying "I hate runflat tires! If there is one reason not to buy a BMW, this is it."