The rank and file may want the overtime is more than likely the argument. Here you get into the cost of hiring the additional marginal employee as oppose to working the current employee overtime.
Let me get this straight. The UAW forces GM into giving a dollar to NASCAR for every hour of OT paid? And that is designed to make the members happy? Kind of goes in the face of the UAW members filing for bankruptcy when they lose OT they are used to. I think it is designed for one purpose only. To force the automakers into hiring more employees.
The UAW forces GM into giving a dollar to NASCAR for every hour of OT paid?
No, they agreed to it, I believe that all of the Big Three agreed to it. Its a moot point which of the Big Three went along. No one twisted their arm and or held a gun to their head. I'm certain that they got something in return for it, as thats how negotiations go. Besides its good PR and both parties left the table with something they felt better off with.
It is designed to hire more people so that people can be home with their families. Doing the quality family time thing. Then maybe, the $100,000 (base pay plus overtime pay) of sticker shock, you have, about the typical UAW rank and file would therefore be a non issue. Ain't family values great?
If you feel that you can do better in negotiations and or that GM is a sucker. They have dealerships all over. Go on, take advantage of them. While your there pick me up a CTS for $10,000.
The strikes that have cost General Motors Corp. more than $1.2 billion so far have left the United Auto Workers union largely unscathed.
Thats just not true. Both sides lose in the strike situation. Did workers not have economic losses? $200 needs to be deducted from the weekly earnings to determine the economic lost to the UAW rank and file. The rank and file are the UAW. Typically the locals rank and file vote to strike and or vote to ratify a contract and or reject a contract, thus sending both parties back to the table, in which case they might be working without a contract, then typically the old contract is in effect.
Any, I repeat, any UAW member can use the Black Lake Michigan golf course. If time permits, regular folks, even you can use it too. Its a public golf course. Do you want me to get you a tee time?
If you feel that you can do better in negotiations and or that GM is a sucker.
There is no doubt in my mind that I could negotiate better from either side of the table. Then I would not have pushed GM or the other automakers into the mess they are in now. That was just plain stupidity on the part of Wagoner. The board was asleep and let him sell the company down the river. If he had any brains he would have locked out the UAW in 1998 and they would be history. Move the plants to states or countries with people willing to work and not whine every time they have to lift a finger.
Why would I even consider doing anything like that now? I am sitting here looking out at my flower garden. There is a species of Wren I am trying to ID. He is eating earwigs and other bugs. I have the satisfaction of knowing that the contracts I was part of negotiating did not run our company into bankruptcy. The same cannot be said of Gettlefinger and his horde of thugs.
Anyone that can afford $85 for 18 holes is making too much money. Those are close to Hawaii rates. $60 for a retiree, oh they must have some kind of gold plated retirement. UAW members need to come back to reality, if they can afford that sport. I thought my brother was crazy paying $45 to play that silly game.
I had $270 a piece (Platium Level) tickets to the Mavericks game last night. Its called the hook up. I've sat in the Perot suite before too. Its all about relationships. The best things in life are free.
Not really. If they are like the Chargers and Padres in San Diego the tax payers have BAILED them out with New stadiums and buying empty seats. Another subject I get really upset about. Pro Sports raping US cities. In our case by the time we voted the mayor out she had already wasted the money. And we still do not have the new library that was supposed to be part of the deal.
You Said ==> "No, they agreed to it, I believe that all of the Big Three agreed to it."
NO KIDDING!! All of the contracts were "Agreed to" at one point or another. This does not mean these agreements should be inplace forever. The current situation is that most of us who are employeed without a union have been paying thru the nose for healthcare, low/no pay increases...etc for over 10 years... NOW THE UNIONITES NEED TO SUFFFER THE SAME AS THE REST OF US!
Instead, the folks who have retired from the UAW are living the high-life as long as the cost of gasoline stays low. It is time to say "Sorry guys.... we had a good run but the jig is up. It is time for EVERYONE to live in the same country under the same rules".
You also said ==> "It is designed to hire more people so that people can be home with their families." This is a bunch of cr@p. If you have to go to work to earn a wage...so be it. Sure it would be *nice* to have UAW amenities... but not if the alternative is driving a multi-billion company into the ground, common sense says this is not an option.
I have worked many creative shifts that do not pay overtime. *)10DaysOn/4DaysOff (still a 40 hour week in 2-week period) *)12Hour x 3 days + 12Hours 2 days (still a 80-hours a month)
Like I said originally, the other option was NO JOB AT ALL and everyone at the plant worked these shifts becaue we all knew this was our way of keeping the company making money. No one "striked" and the unions still have not been able to get into our plant (thank God!)
BOTTOM LINE: I say let the current in-place laws work their magic (Chapter 11) and let all those union contracts get burned. Then start again with a modern company and workforce which is trained in LEAN MANUFACTURING practices.
The bottom line is the Smart companies will prepare for supplier losses. Unlike GM that walks around wringing their hands wondering what happened to all the buyers. And the UAW with their hands out saying gimme, gimme even when not working. The whole Domestic auto industry tied to the UAW was a disaster looking for a time to happen. Well 2008 is that time. And 2009 will be the year GM & Chrysler died and will be buried. Ford will benefit from the buy only American consumers, which are becoming like the dinosaurs, nearly extinct.
My point was, there is no policy in Japan to treat US as a third world labor market.
By the way, Chrysler may well be as productive as Toyota, but if the cost per unit of labor (and thus per unit of output) is higher, then ultimately it is at a disadvantage.
This does not mean these agreements should be inplace forever.
Your right and from what I see that NASCAR race in Vegas is no longer the UAW sponsored. So they may have very well done started. All contracts expire. Just go ask your mortgage company and or the bank that totes your note to amend yours. Both parties must see it beneficial to them and either must breech.
Then start again with a modern company and workforce which is trained in LEAN MANUFACTURING practices.
Ten years ago while I was visiting auto manufacturers, they were doing the Lean Sigma Six and all the zen crap that goes along. So therefore you need to do research prior to making uninformed statements. Fact is that the Saturn was to be the noble experiment on employer/employee joint lean manufacturing. all of the business schools hold Toyota near and dear as the darling of the business schools. Industrial engineers, business majors, supply chain, and a host of other disciplines have and are involved in the Lean ideology.
"Sorry guys.... we had a good run but the jig is up. It is time for EVERYONE to live in the same country under the same rules".
Unfortunately the Lean ideas that American management excludes are the 15 times or so earnings is a max in CEO pay. That wasn't good enough for Lean here in America. Then too the employee is considered family and that employees family is also considered family. Everything else Japanese is better except those ideals which conflict with the fat cats money. So might I suggest that you do research and quit listening to the Americanize version of Lean. Ignorance has a cure, however, stupidity is terminal.
I say let the current in-place laws work their magic (Chapter 11) and let all those union contracts get burned.
Chapter seven would be the eventual outcome even if eleven was filed. This well could be a plot to avoid paying that legacy and or push it off on the taxpayers. With the pension legacy there is no way to compete with the transplants. I know the LTV conglomerate had a legal plan to push off the steel legacy pensions off on the PGBC/taxpayers, however, a federal judge ruled, while legal, this would entice other big corporation to do likewise. They were later sold in pieces by the trustee and the PGBC/taxpayers got the bill for most of the steels legacy. So the which is the lesser of the evils? Will they be sold in pieces? Who gets the piece with the legacy? Will they be allowed to keep the overseas plants out of the bankruptcy?
My point was, there is no policy in Japan to treat US as a third world labor market.
Sorry, I was making a different point and not bias to any certain labor market. Just going off on tangents and or pontificate at times. The more competition and the more choice the better for the consumer. I might drive a Cadillac CTS, but would consider a 350Z, if the price was right. Then too the appearance of that two seater Lexus, if its rear wheel drive might look nice in my garage.
Pro Sports raping US cities. In our case by the time we voted the mayor out she had already wasted the money.
The only exception I see is the Green Bay Packers, the fans own them, I think. Then the new New York stadium might be owner funded. Next year you will see the billion dollar stadium built by taxpayers for the benefit of the Cowboys owner and his ego.
built at taxpayer expense are simply another crime going on for many years...every city wants a sports team that they think will bring money to the city...oftentimes, the stadium is built in the worst crime-ridden region of the city, in the hopes of bringing people down where they would NEVER go if they were sober...naturally, police are beefed up on the days of games, so the citizens feel protected...
They always use the "jobs" angle to build the stadium, but just how many janitor and concession jobs does a stadium need, considering the build cost is in the hundreds of millions $$$, and a few people make money selling beer and hot dogs...meanwhile, the profits from the game and TV rights goes in the pockets of the teamowner...
I have no problem with the teamowner becoming richer, but if he/she paid for the stadium and the increased police cost on game day, it would be a total private enterprise, none of my business...but if the city pays for the stadium, just so they can say "The XXX football/baseball team, Superbowl/World Series winner for three years in the last ten years, plays here in our city", that is stupid motivation...if the Braves/Falcons left Atlanta, the city would not suffer a bit, and traffic on game day would be more manageable...Back in the 60s/70s, in NYC, under Mayor John Lindsay, Yankee Stadium was rebuilt at the supposed cost of $100 million, but it ended up costing many times that...as a kid, I did go there a few times...the stadium, and a radius of about 100 yards around it were safe...kinda like Atlantic City...on one side of the border street, you feel safe as it looks secure and well lit...50 yards across the street is the biggest hell-hole that Earth has ever seen...
And people keep clamoring for more new stadiums...stupid...
P.S. Detroit Stadium, same thing...worst slum part of the city, but Tom Monahan (Domino's Pizza owner) wanted a stadium, so he got one, all at taxpayer expense...someone needs to have the testosterone to look at the team owner and say...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and let them take the team elsewhere...or pay for the new stadium themselves...
Sports rant over...
In Detroit, I am also sure that many of the Tigers fans drive there in the ZBig 3 cars, made, sadly, by the UAW and their overpaid, underskilled workers...
[dallasdude1] I respectfully must say that it is YOU who are not up to speed on what LEAN is. It cannot be learned from a couple paragraphs nor from reading some books.
I work for one of the largest companies on the planet which incorporated in the state of New York on June 16, 1911. (But started in 1888) The company I work for is NOT in the news asking for handounts and instead has several billion in the bank... thanks in a large part to management making the tough decesions 10 years ago and putting us on a winning path. We also do NOT having unions to mess with the employee-management relationship.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of the employees where I work, while sitting next to management in classes, are learning the intricicies of LEAN. LEAN has been proven many times over to work when applied properly. It is part of every employees job to take some kind of LEAN class every year. I *trust* that the management in my company is doing the right thing for all of us. (I wonder if GM or FORD employees would say that?)
I am not paid based soley on how long I have been employeed... instead, I am paid based on my SKILL, FLEXABILITY and VALUE TO THE COMPANY.
I understand that union workers get more pay just by showing up to work for enough years... this is a STUPID way to run a company and is destined to fail. Eventually the company will be paying people more to retire than to make products.
i know you are trying to make a point. when you write 'detroit stadium', you lose anyone who has any knowledge of the detroit area. your post becomes just another personal rant. it doesn't really help you make that point i already forgot about. the baseball park is Comerica Park. the football stadium is Ford Field. Comerica Park is pretty nice and the area around it has been upgraded too. Ford Field is pretty much across the street.
This well could be a plot to avoid paying that legacy and or push it off on the taxpayers.
If as you say the GM Pension fund is vested the tax payers will not owe the retirees anything. The health care promised is not part of the insured pension under the ERISA program. Bottom line is GM goes broke the under 65 retirees will have to get their own health care program. Just as it should be. The GM/UAW health care Ponzi scheme should have been dealt with as an illegal scam.
GM is not the Federal Government that is allowed to spend money it does not have.
i noticed you have not responded to the link i posted about one of the two pillars of LEAN being reconsidered. do you still have deer jumping through the windows up where you work? :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Ahh Mr. explorerx4, have you have figured out that I work at one of the largest computer-chip plants in North America?
I saw you append about JIT, it will be interesting to see where that leads. You are correct in that JIT is part of LEAN but I do not beleive it is one of the "pillars" of the "house of lean".
In fact much of the JIT philosiphy means DO NOT BUILD AHEAD. For example, instead of investing in a machine that can stamp out 50 fenders a minute which must be run 24X7 just to pay for itself.... instead purchase a cheaper machine that can also be converted to do other tasks and ONLY make the number of fenders you need to supply the next step of the fender process...then convert it to make bumpers (or whatever) and use it to supply the next step of the bumper process. (This is a VERY oversimplified LEAN concept.)
The idea of OUTSIDE suppliers participating in the JIT process is not pure LEAN to start with. Other factors must be considerd and applied.
I have heard the stories about deer breaking thu a glass wall and running thru the halls of the site. I have even seen a sign saying there was a SKUNK somewhere in the building... but I have not witnessed either.
when you write 'detroit stadium', you lose anyone who has any knowledge of the detroit area.
Are you saying that neither of the stadiums in Detroit were built with tax payer money?
I know Qualcomm Stadium where the Chargers play has $70 million of tax payer dollars rotting in the seats. It cost us something like $18 million last year to pay for unsold tickets. Qualcomm put up a few million to get their name on the stadium. It was the tax payers that got screwed. Now our stadium that was upgraded so we could have a Super Bowl is out of date, and they want better boxes for the fat cats and millions more in wasted tax dollars. I say let the Chargers and the Padres can move to another city. Bunch of worthless losers. Sports teams are nothing but a drain on the tax payers. I would not waste my time to go see any pro sports game if someone gave me the tickets and took me to the game in a helicopter.
Can a UAW member afford to go to a game at Comerica? Will his car still be in the parking lot when the game is over? And why did Comerica bail out of Detroit and move to a friendlier city? Could it be the Union entitlement mentality that is so pervasive in Michigan?
not bad for reading one post and looking at your profile, if i don't say so myself. i was tempted to google some of that info you posted, but just rolled the dice. anyways, it seems that maybe LEAN doesn't quite work in all circumstances. one thing i don't understand about your explanation of LEAN is why a multifunctional machine(fenders and bumpers) would cost less than than a single function machine(fenders only). HEY! Happy New Year Everyone!
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"one thing i don't understand about your explanation of LEAN is why a multifunctional machine(fenders and bumpers) would cost less than than a single function machine(fenders only). "
Basicilly, a single-function machine which can only do one task efficently would have to sit idle once it has done its quota. (Remember... building ahead is considerd waste)
It is far better to have a machine that may not be as fast at making fenders as one costing 3X... but the ability to convert it quickly to do other tasks is FAR more efficent use of the machine. Also, having a number of smaller-cheaper machines means some could be turned off when not needed.
Traditional Indrustial-engineering concepts say that a single, hugely-expensive machine needs to be manned and run continously in order to pay for itsself. (which means build-ahead and thus WASTE)
I know that many of the LEAN concepts are difficult to grasp. I had to attend hours of class with hands-on examples before I saw why this was better.
One of the main things about LEAN is to not look at the effency of each "step" in a process. Instead focus on the entire process. This concept of looking at the ENTIRE process goes against many traditional Industrial-Engineering concepts which focus on optomizing each step in a process.
Here is an example using a human as the machine... What if you had an employee that ONLY knew how to install lugnuts....and there were no lugnuts to install? 1)If this was a UAW worker, they could take a coffee-break until more lugnuts were available. 2)In a LEAN company, this worker would be trained and expected to find somthing else to do which is productive. (Grab a mop, grease somthing, shovel snow...whatever needs to be done)
If as you say the GM Pension fund is vested the tax payers will not owe the retirees anything.
People are the ones whom get vested. Most folks who work 30 years might be 100% vested. Therefore, they would get the full amount entitled. The question is if the pension is fully funded. As has been my experience, the way the stockmarket, so goes the pension fund. During good times they might be fully funded. That is a certain amount should be in the plan to be able to pay a certain amount of retirees for the duration of their retirement. Bottom line is that I suspect that the PBGC/taxpayers doesn't want an underfunded plan and if anything they will have to add to it above/beyond the rate of return.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. was already in the hole before the stock-market meltdown and the credit freeze shut down U.S. economic growth this fall.
"It’s hard to imagine how the PBGC could get out of this in the long run without a taxpayer bailout," said Jeffrey Brown, finance professor at the University of Illinois. Brown estimates that an additional $50 billion to $100 billion or more of taxpayer money might be needed in the next decade or later to bail out the PBGC
.He said that the PBGC could inherit more than $100 billion of pension obligations if Ford or GM filed for bankruptcy and the pension funds were turned over to the agency. No one knows what kind of liabilities the PBGC could — or even would — get in such a scenario.
I am not paid based soley on how long I have been employed... instead, I am paid based on my SKILL, FLEXIBILITY and VALUE TO THE COMPANY.
If you did twice as much, I doubt that they would pay you twice as much. I've seen green belts, black belts, and sigma six certified folks. Its a phase, prior it was TQM, and it passed too. If you read the book "lean way of thinking" you Pratt Whitney, Harley Davidson, big/small companies, union/non union companies and every kind of company you can imagine has had this lean ideology. I came away with some useful ideas, but then again I see companies stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I've been in keizen event too. In the end I respect the concept and would borrow from it, but I'm light years ahead and aim to stay that way.
Don't get me wrong, I wish it were that easy. Processes have to be refined in some manner and it may as well be lean. Anything that innovates is fine by me. I'm sure your aware that for years Toyota and GM have been running an auto plant together. NUMMI builds cars/trucks and they are UAW represented.
Fortunately I work for the most enterprising corporation on the planet and on the top ten of every list of business journals/magazines. I'm assuming your at GE.
NUMMI, set up as a joint venture in 1984, produces the Corolla subcompact, Tacoma pickup and Pontiac Vibe wagon. One of the plant’s purposes was to have American workers learn Toyota’s production methods. It has been the topic of numerous labor relations studies, and the company claims teamwork and safety among its “core values.”
Quality problems have been creeping up at Toyota, which traditionally has a stellar reputation for reliability. Toyota’s recalls have ballooned over the last couple of years, and President Katsuaki Watanabe has promised to beef up quality control.
Last month, Consumer Reports said Toyota “is showing cracks in its armor” and will no longer get automatic recommendations from the magazine when it releases new or redesigned vehicles. It also removed several Toyota vehicles from its recommended list because of quality issues.
The “Toyota way” of manufacturing is emulated by manufacturers around the world not only because it eliminates waste but also because it empowers the individual worker. In principle, workers are encouraged to stop an entire assembly lines if a problem arises.
Chapter seven would be the eventual outcome even if eleven was filed.
That is speculation and being promoted by the fear-mongers. There is just as strong an argument that Chapter 11 would allow a smaller more competitive US auto industry emerge. I'd sure like to run the experiment. Chrysler and GM anyone?
What if you had an employee that ONLY knew how to install lugnuts....and there were no lugnuts to install? 1)If this was a UAW worker, they could take a coffee-break until more lugnuts were available. 2)In a LEAN company, this worker would be trained and expected to find somthing else to do which is productive. (Grab a mop, grease somthing, shovel snow...whatever needs to be done)
Case 2, how naive! Do you really think that a UAW worker would break their STUPID work rules to do something different? Perhaps it is too taxing to train the lug nut guy to sweep or grease something. It might endanger the worker, their needs to be an EXPERT greaser who won't hurt himself with that grease gun! The lug nut guy should take a coffee break!
It was the Camry that Consumer reports was talking about in the past they would give Toyota a FREE PASS on models that had been A+ then the 07 (V6) Camry and 07 Tundra (V8) had some issues so now they have to wait until there cars and trucks through the same test time period. I have been a CR member for 15 years and since you are using there data for a point a reference then you need to take a look at there list of Reliable used cars and Used cars to avoid. On the Used cares to avoid you list Toyota, Honda,Subaru on one hand with missing fingers where Ford, GM, and the others would be a book.
>"My friend, are you listening to the corporate mainstream media again? I agree that this was a direct result of the need to fill a void left by the dot com bust. But, lets look at Bush in 2002. Granted he was well meaning."
I try to gather the news from the two extremes of Fox and CNN, throw in some CNBC and C-Span and make a decision based on that and other sources that may come along, such as your's and other's links.
Keeping in mind that Bush was addressing the Department of Housing and Urban Development ( HUD). Of course he was going to say what they wanted to hear. Politicians do that. It buys votes.
If he was addressing a UAW meeting, I suspect he would have talked about the glory of organized labor, even though they typically endorse democrats. Politicians do that. It buys votes.
I agree that his intentions were well meaning. Some of his reasoning was good. But I would like to believe that he expected the monies to help with the down payments to folks that could actually pay back the loans.
It doesn't take away from the fact that this home ownership thing was started by Jimmy Carter, accelerated by Clinton, and during his first and second term Bush was concerned that the lending practices were overwhelming the system.
I agree that de regulation open too many doors. Banks were free to make loans to anybody with a pulse, because they could sell those loans to Freddie or Fannie if or when they didn't work out.
I don't remember his name, but the head of either Freddie or Fannie admitted at a Senate or House hearing ( is that vague enough) that he got additional compensation for the amount of the loans they accumulated. He also reluctantly admitted that he was on the board that arrived at his compensation.
There is plenty of blame to go around. I repeat: Obama needs to understand the whole picture and not blame the Bush administration for all the problems. Even though Bush recognized the problem, he accomplished nothing to fix it. So there is a lot of blame there. Unless he may have tried but congress wouldn't go along. That we will likely never know.
Different subject addressed to another poster : The landslide loss of congressional seats by the dems in the mid 90 had a lot to do with the 1994 Gun Control (10 year ban) passed by congress just prior to the election. Everyone that belonged to the NRA, or any other gun friendly group, received mail naming names of the Congress and Senate members that had voted for the Ban. There were enough pissed off gun owners that swung the outcome vote to the republicans.
In 2004, when the Ban was due to "Sun Set", Bush told congress that if they voted to continue it, he would sign it into law. They apparently decided to let it sunset.
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero - 55 BC"
"Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration? Anybody? Anything? No?
Bottom line . . we've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember.
Ready? It was very simple, and at the time everybody thought it very appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted 8-04-1977 TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL. HEY, PRETTY EFFICIENT, HUH?
AND NOW IT'S 2008, 31 YEARS LATER, AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS NECESSARY DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR, THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES AND LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY 'WHAT WAS I THINKING?'
Ah yes, good ole bureaucracy. And now we are going to turn the Banking system over to them? God Help us."
Looking at our history. It was 1957 the last time any money was used to pay down the National Debt. The National debt has gone up during every administration since 1957. That, I do not blame on the UAW. Though they have certainly done their part to maintain the status quo.
Probably all union jobs paying top dollar. My question is how many spend their day surfing the web, with nothing else to do. Where were these 116,000 people we are paying $24 billion per year when oil prices shot through the roof? Did they spend any time investigating Soros and his hedge funds that were involved in much of the oil speculation. Or is that some other union agency that investigates currency and commodity speculation. Sadly we have all the ingredients in this new administration and Congress to expand the Federal government by a very large number. How many new agencies will it take to over see the spending of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS....
That is speculation and being promoted by the fear-mongers.
To compete is one thing. The legacy is a burden on the big three, which is beyond anything the competition has. Its been my experience that assets would have to be sold off, and more than likely have been sold off. Does GM own EDS any longer? Then in the end the trustee would have to go along with dumping the entire liquidation onto the taxpayers. You also have to be aware they would assure 100% of those on a pension and 50% to 75% of others whom are vested but yet not retired.
I don't see this any different that LTV steel conglomerate. My question would be if that would effect the profitable GM overseas? Would they be burdened by the legacy? Would they be allowed to sell, lets say each plant as a stand alone and or each division, parts without the legacy tied to those parts? Then we would be fools not to ignore any medical benefits they don't honor would increase the social services costs to taxpayers.
Further evidence suggests: But puzzlement is giving way to concern, as the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp has warned that Delphi is some $3.5b in the hole on its pension obligations. And no wonder, considering GM saddled it with pension obligations from several closed and sold factories as a spin-off goodbye present in 1999, a move pension experts call "legal." As in there ought to be a law against it. Meanwhile, hundreds of the non-Delphi retirees have received letters from the supplier saying their pensions are at risk, thanks to Delphi's bankruptcy. Delphi is supposed to transfer $1.5b in (hourly retiree) obligations back to moneybags GM, but mysteriously that hasn't happened yet, prompting the PBGC's concern with the situation. Though Delphi's bosses swear up and down that they're committed to honoring pension obligations, if the transfer doesn't happen by September 30 when new PBGC rules go into effect, Delphi will likely find itself in pension default. Which means hundreds of workers who never even worked for Delphi would be at the mercy of the PBGC. And those same new rules mean the PBGC will likely not honor most planned payment step-ups and early retirement benefits. "I don't want a handout," says one retiree. "I want General Motors to pay my pensions like they told me they were going to do."
then there is Pension plans in America no longer represent commitments that financially troubled companies will honor. Neither bankruptcy courts, nor Washington, nor unions have the clout to make them do so. The disposition of these plans is instead left to serve the needs of big investors. Often these investors are a failing company’s best hope of restructuring after bankruptcy. Investors want a lean investment unburdened with financial promises to employees no longer on the payroll. Despite laws passed to discourage the termination of plans, the courts allow it, caving in to the forces garnered to reinvigorate a failing company. Unions are often compelled to choose between the financial welfare of retirees and jobs for active workers.
Pension Dumping explains in shocking detail how terminating the pension plan became a knee-jerk strategy for bankrupt companies that hope to attract big investors to help them reorganize.
Hawthorne traces the dynamics and the players involved as a pension is targeted for termination: the bankruptcy court and the hierarchy of power that dictates whose interests will prevail the choices forced on unions the burden placed on the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation the risks investors take and the returns they look for the companies’ efforts to salvage what they can as they restructure, as well as the backlash they risk by breaking pension promises
more fear mongering The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. steps in to take over failed pension plans. After studying updated pension information for the auto makers in recent weeks, the agency has grown increasingly concerned that it might have to cover billions of dollars in pensions if one or more of the car companies should file for bankruptcy-court protection.
The agency's letters were sent as the auto makers scramble to assemble blueprints for congressional leaders demanding viable business plans in exchange for a $25 billion bailout.
Generally, the auto companies have positioned themselves as well-prepared to continue paying pensions for several years to come.
When GM last gave a year-end update on its pension funds, the funds covered more than 400,000 retirees and were overfunded by $18.8 billion. But earlier this month, GM said its plan for hourly workers was underfunded by $500 million because of restructuring expenses. Its plan for salaried employees remains overfunded by at least $500 million.
The PBGC, which insures the retirement savings of almost 44 million Americans, ended last year with a $14 billion deficit. That shortfall narrowed to about $11 billion as of late September. Were GM to place its pension burden on PBGC, it would more than double the agency's current shortfall.
Quality problems have been creeping up at Toyota...
Who learned what from whom?
The golf course is gaining traction - Carpocalypse Now (Jalopnik). Note the snide comment - "they teach leadership courses there."
The Wall Street Journal, meanwhile, is trying to blame the UAW for all of Detroit's woes, including CAFE, shareholders getting wiped out, debt holders getting a haircut, Daimler's dumping of Chrysler and if you look close enough, the War of 1812 is probably buried in there somewhere too. link.
"I don't want a handout," says one retiree. "I want General Motors to pay my pensions like they told me they were going to do."
GM is BROKE. They believed when they made the deal with the UAW long years ago that the gravy train selling big profit vehicles would continue to rise Forever. GM screwed up and those that believed in them are screwed. If PBGC were to take over the GM pension fund in the case of bankruptcy the current pensioners would probably get 100% of their pension. I don't think they cover any health care under PBGC. That will be on the pensioner's shoulders. If they are not 65 they may need to go back to some job that pays health care or just bite the bullet and buy a plan until they are 65. Those that are vested with 5 years or more may or may not get the full amount of retirement they are expecting.
If PBGC is showing a deficit of $14 billion they need to cut pensions to bring the fund back into the black. There is no earthly reason the tax payers should be burdened with private pensions that fail. The laws are in place to protect those pension funds. If PBGC is doing what they are paid to do they should be floating along ok.
It sounds like it is the same kind of Ponzi scheme we have been sold with Social Security and Medicare. And people want to give the government more to over see. What a joke this country has become.
The UAW better do whatever it takes to keep GM afloat. Get rid of the two tier wage and put everyone under $20 per hour would be a start. A fork lift driver or a lug nut assembler is not worth $20 an hour in Michigan today. I can hire skilled journeymen carpenters, plumbers, block layer, concrete finishers and electricians in CA for $20-$30 per hour contract. They pay all their own medical, SS and retirement for that price. They supply truck and tools. And are happy to get the work. UAW workers need to come into the 21st century. They are living in the past. And the past is about to disappear. Welcome to 2009......
I agree that de regulation open too many doors. Banks were free to make loans to anybody with a pulse, because they could sell those loans to Freddie or Fannie if or when they didn't work out.
After the dot com bubble the FED started lowering the interest rates to fuel the economy. This is the beginning of the sub prime mess. Prior they were making loans to dot com companies who weren't even making a profit. Everyone in Washington went along. If Bush had any vision he would have not tampered with interest rates or gotten the FED to leave things alone. He failed to see the big picture, which is only a small piece of the big puzzle. Then the manner in which they packaged the loans and sold them as assets is an entirely different situation. They should have labeled them correctly as junk loans and not some fancy coined marketing label to hide their true nature. We can only agree and have evidence that the govt acted to fix the problem after the fact. There was ample opportunity to act prior and avoid the whole situation all together.
The landslide loss of congressional seats by the dems in the mid 90 had a lot to do with the 1994 Gun Control (10 year ban) passed by congress just prior to the election. Everyone that belonged to the NRA, or any other gun friendly group, received mail naming names of the Congress and Senate members that had voted for the Ban. There were enough pissed off gun owners that swung the outcome vote to the republicans.
I saw the NRA as a subset of many. Many UAW rank and file members are NRA members too. You had pro life folks and others too. Many UAW members are pro life too. They played every group they could. The Bob Jones University incident is a classic example of how politics is done. McCain, would have been the GOP winner if not for the Carl Rove political smear tactic. Well the GOP had their chance and its rather obvious that Americans want a change and or look for Obama to save them. I think that those NRA/pro life/other special interest groups voted their pocketbooks in 06 and 08. Strong powerful like minded groups/special interests/lobby's/unions/AARP ban together at times to put forth their agenda. However, their first priorities are the economy when all is said and done.
"Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration?
Was it the embargo? When was the strategic reserve started?
I do see your point. Then you have to see the mass deregualtion of the private sector as failure. The best we can say is big business = big govt = big labor and hence they keep each other in check. Wonder what percentage of GNP is govt and its different dept? Is defense 3%? Is EPA 1%?
Not for me. It is the Unions and UAW that put yokels like Carter in the White House. I was in Alaska and do not remember any gas shortage. Though the Unions up there were also misguided in their voting preferences.
last time any money was used to pay down the National Debt
For those who believe that the Bush administration is not responsible for this economic crisis, PLEASE stop listening to talk radio and take a class in Micro and Macro Economics. It is so sad that our country has at least 40 - 50% of the population who are repeating Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage’s opinions as though they were factual. Even sadder is the fact that those who believe this propaganda have no savings, no wealth, no 401K, so they have not felt the pain of losing their life savings.
The GOP has been on the defensive over this and unable to accept it. For the sake of argument, we could say that Clinton didn't run a surplus. Then we can go on to the facts of this so called GOP and their downsizing govt and spending. Then look at history and we have to admit its a fools errand. So then we can point our finger at congress and their pork spending. Look at the percentage of GNP pork is and there is nothing there. The GOP has acted like a drunken sailor on shore leave is what history bears out. This let the free markets decide deregulation, borne of the Reagan era is what we have just seen before our eyes. $700 BILLION and counting. Could they be wrong about anything else? Could they perhaps be wrong about the UAW? I believe in personal responsibility and someone needs to fess up.
The legacy is a burden on the big three, which is beyond anything the competition has.
Whose fault is that?
My question would be if that would effect the profitable GM overseas? Would they be burdened by the legacy? Would they be allowed to sell, lets say each plant as a stand alone and or each division, parts without the legacy tied to those parts?
I don't know enough about BK on how this could work. Can GM spin off some profitable entities that are overseas? It seems like it is the US portion only that is really sick. If they had a structure like:
GM corporate HQ GM N America GM China GM Europe GM Australia
Then perhaps they could just BK the NA division and retain corporate HQ and the rest of the company?
Then perhaps they could just BK the NA division and retain corporate HQ and the rest of the company?
That would be the smart thing to do. Then GM has not done anything that seemed all that wise over the last 30 years. GM can build any car in Mexico or So America that they can build here only cheaper. I just don't think they can break out of the repressive UAW contracts and legacy without filing for C11.
Comments
Let me get this straight. The UAW forces GM into giving a dollar to NASCAR for every hour of OT paid? And that is designed to make the members happy? Kind of goes in the face of the UAW members filing for bankruptcy when they lose OT they are used to. I think it is designed for one purpose only. To force the automakers into hiring more employees.
No, they agreed to it, I believe that all of the Big Three agreed to it. Its a moot point which of the Big Three went along. No one twisted their arm and or held a gun to their head. I'm certain that they got something in return for it, as thats how negotiations go. Besides its good PR and both parties left the table with something they felt better off with.
It is designed to hire more people so that people can be home with their families. Doing the quality family time thing. Then maybe, the $100,000 (base pay plus overtime pay) of sticker shock, you have, about the typical UAW rank and file would therefore be a non issue. Ain't family values great?
If you feel that you can do better in negotiations and or that GM is a sucker. They have dealerships all over. Go on, take advantage of them. While your there pick me up a CTS for $10,000.
Thats just not true. Both sides lose in the strike situation. Did workers not have economic losses? $200 needs to be deducted from the weekly earnings to determine the economic lost to the UAW rank and file. The rank and file are the UAW. Typically the locals rank and file vote to strike and or vote to ratify a contract and or reject a contract, thus sending both parties back to the table, in which case they might be working without a contract, then typically the old contract is in effect.
Any, I repeat, any UAW member can use the Black Lake Michigan golf course. If time permits, regular folks, even you can use it too. Its a public golf course. Do you want me to get you a tee time?
http://www.blacklakegolf.com/more-about-the-course-7/
There is no doubt in my mind that I could negotiate better from either side of the table. Then I would not have pushed GM or the other automakers into the mess they are in now. That was just plain stupidity on the part of Wagoner. The board was asleep and let him sell the company down the river. If he had any brains he would have locked out the UAW in 1998 and they would be history. Move the plants to states or countries with people willing to work and not whine every time they have to lift a finger.
Why would I even consider doing anything like that now? I am sitting here looking out at my flower garden. There is a species of Wren I am trying to ID. He is eating earwigs and other bugs. I have the satisfaction of knowing that the contracts I was part of negotiating did not run our company into bankruptcy. The same cannot be said of Gettlefinger and his horde of thugs.
Anyone that can afford $85 for 18 holes is making too much money. Those are close to Hawaii rates. $60 for a retiree, oh they must have some kind of gold plated retirement. UAW members need to come back to reality, if they can afford that sport. I thought my brother was crazy paying $45 to play that silly game.
Not really. If they are like the Chargers and Padres in San Diego the tax payers have BAILED them out with New stadiums and buying empty seats. Another subject I get really upset about. Pro Sports raping US cities. In our case by the time we voted the mayor out she had already wasted the money. And we still do not have the new library that was supposed to be part of the deal.
"No, they agreed to it, I believe that all of the Big Three agreed to it."
NO KIDDING!! All of the contracts were "Agreed to" at one point or another. This does not mean these agreements should be inplace forever. The current situation is that most of us who are employeed without a union have been paying thru the nose for healthcare, low/no pay increases...etc for over 10 years... NOW THE UNIONITES NEED TO SUFFFER THE SAME AS THE REST OF US!
Instead, the folks who have retired from the UAW are living the high-life as long as the cost of gasoline stays low. It is time to say "Sorry guys.... we had a good run but the jig is up. It is time for EVERYONE to live in the same country under the same rules".
You also said ==> "It is designed to hire more people so that people can be home with their families."
This is a bunch of cr@p. If you have to go to work to earn a wage...so be it. Sure it would be *nice* to have UAW amenities... but not if the alternative is driving a multi-billion company into the ground, common sense says this is not an option.
I have worked many creative shifts that do not pay overtime.
*)10DaysOn/4DaysOff (still a 40 hour week in 2-week period)
*)12Hour x 3 days + 12Hours 2 days (still a 80-hours a month)
Like I said originally, the other option was NO JOB AT ALL and everyone at the plant worked these shifts becaue we all knew this was our way of keeping the company making money. No one "striked" and the unions still have not been able to get into our plant (thank God!)
BOTTOM LINE: I say let the current in-place laws work their magic (Chapter 11) and let all those union contracts get burned. Then start again with a modern company and workforce which is trained in LEAN MANUFACTURING practices.
I thought we were discussing productivity difference between Japan and North America (and not within North America itself)...?
The following report from McKinsey kind of hints at Japanese Auto industry workers having higher productivity than their US counterparts, but no clear data.
(http://www.frbsf.org/economics/conferences/0511/4_IncreasingGlobalCompetition.p- df)
My point was, there is no policy in Japan to treat US as a third world labor market.
By the way, Chrysler may well be as productive as Toyota, but if the cost per unit of labor (and thus per unit of output) is higher, then ultimately it is at a disadvantage.
Your right and from what I see that NASCAR race in Vegas is no longer the UAW sponsored. So they may have very well done started. All contracts expire. Just go ask your mortgage company and or the bank that totes your note to amend yours. Both parties must see it beneficial to them and either must breech.
Then start again with a modern company and workforce which is trained in LEAN MANUFACTURING practices.
Ten years ago while I was visiting auto manufacturers, they were doing the Lean Sigma Six and all the zen crap that goes along. So therefore you need to do research prior to making uninformed statements. Fact is that the Saturn was to be the noble experiment on employer/employee joint lean manufacturing. all of the business schools hold Toyota near and dear as the darling of the business schools. Industrial engineers, business majors, supply chain, and a host of other disciplines have and are involved in the Lean ideology.
"Sorry guys.... we had a good run but the jig is up. It is time for EVERYONE to live in the same country under the same rules".
Unfortunately the Lean ideas that American management excludes are the 15 times or so earnings is a max in CEO pay. That wasn't good enough for Lean here in America. Then too the employee is considered family and that employees family is also considered family. Everything else Japanese is better except those ideals which conflict with the fat cats money. So might I suggest that you do research and quit listening to the Americanize version of Lean. Ignorance has a cure, however, stupidity is terminal.
I say let the current in-place laws work their magic (Chapter 11) and let all those union contracts get burned.
Chapter seven would be the eventual outcome even if eleven was filed. This well could be a plot to avoid paying that legacy and or push it off on the taxpayers. With the pension legacy there is no way to compete with the transplants. I know the LTV conglomerate had a legal plan to push off the steel legacy pensions off on the PGBC/taxpayers, however, a federal judge ruled, while legal, this would entice other big corporation to do likewise. They were later sold in pieces by the trustee and the PGBC/taxpayers got the bill for most of the steels legacy. So the which is the lesser of the evils? Will they be sold in pieces? Who gets the piece with the legacy? Will they be allowed to keep the overseas plants out of the bankruptcy?
Sorry, I was making a different point and not bias to any certain labor market. Just going off on tangents and or pontificate at times. The more competition and the more choice the better for the consumer. I might drive a Cadillac CTS, but would consider a 350Z, if the price was right. Then too the appearance of that two seater Lexus, if its rear wheel drive might look nice in my garage.
The only exception I see is the Green Bay Packers, the fans own them, I think. Then the new New York stadium might be owner funded. Next year you will see the billion dollar stadium built by taxpayers for the benefit of the Cowboys owner and his ego.
They always use the "jobs" angle to build the stadium, but just how many janitor and concession jobs does a stadium need, considering the build cost is in the hundreds of millions $$$, and a few people make money selling beer and hot dogs...meanwhile, the profits from the game and TV rights goes in the pockets of the teamowner...
I have no problem with the teamowner becoming richer, but if he/she paid for the stadium and the increased police cost on game day, it would be a total private enterprise, none of my business...but if the city pays for the stadium, just so they can say "The XXX football/baseball team, Superbowl/World Series winner for three years in the last ten years, plays here in our city", that is stupid motivation...if the Braves/Falcons left Atlanta, the city would not suffer a bit, and traffic on game day would be more manageable...Back in the 60s/70s, in NYC, under Mayor John Lindsay, Yankee Stadium was rebuilt at the supposed cost of $100 million, but it ended up costing many times that...as a kid, I did go there a few times...the stadium, and a radius of about 100 yards around it were safe...kinda like Atlantic City...on one side of the border street, you feel safe as it looks secure and well lit...50 yards across the street is the biggest hell-hole that Earth has ever seen...
And people keep clamoring for more new stadiums...stupid...
P.S. Detroit Stadium, same thing...worst slum part of the city, but Tom Monahan (Domino's Pizza owner) wanted a stadium, so he got one, all at taxpayer expense...someone needs to have the testosterone to look at the team owner and say...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and let them take the team elsewhere...or pay for the new stadium themselves...
Sports rant over...
In Detroit, I am also sure that many of the Tigers fans drive there in the ZBig 3 cars, made, sadly, by the UAW and their overpaid, underskilled workers...
I work for one of the largest companies on the planet which incorporated in the state of New York on June 16, 1911. (But started in 1888) The company I work for is NOT in the news asking for handounts and instead has several billion in the bank... thanks in a large part to management making the tough decesions 10 years ago and putting us on a winning path. We also do NOT having unions to mess with the employee-management relationship.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of the employees where I work, while sitting next to management in classes, are learning the intricicies of LEAN. LEAN has been proven many times over to work when applied properly. It is part of every employees job to take some kind of LEAN class every year. I *trust* that the management in my company is doing the right thing for all of us. (I wonder if GM or FORD employees would say that?)
I am not paid based soley on how long I have been employeed... instead, I am paid based on my SKILL, FLEXABILITY and VALUE TO THE COMPANY.
I understand that union workers get more pay just by showing up to work for enough years... this is a STUPID way to run a company and is destined to fail. Eventually the company will be paying people more to retire than to make products.
when you write 'detroit stadium', you lose anyone who has any knowledge of the detroit area. your post becomes just another personal rant. it doesn't really help you make that point i already forgot about.
the baseball park is Comerica Park. the football stadium is Ford Field.
Comerica Park is pretty nice and the area around it has been upgraded too.
Ford Field is pretty much across the street.
comerica park
If as you say the GM Pension fund is vested the tax payers will not owe the retirees anything. The health care promised is not part of the insured pension under the ERISA program. Bottom line is GM goes broke the under 65 retirees will have to get their own health care program. Just as it should be. The GM/UAW health care Ponzi scheme should have been dealt with as an illegal scam.
GM is not the Federal Government that is allowed to spend money it does not have.
do you still have deer jumping through the windows up where you work? :surprise:
I saw you append about JIT, it will be interesting to see where that leads. You are correct in that JIT is part of LEAN but I do not beleive it is one of the "pillars" of the "house of lean".
In fact much of the JIT philosiphy means DO NOT BUILD AHEAD. For example, instead of investing in a machine that can stamp out 50 fenders a minute which must be run 24X7 just to pay for itself.... instead purchase a cheaper machine that can also be converted to do other tasks and ONLY make the number of fenders you need to supply the next step of the fender process...then convert it to make bumpers (or whatever) and use it to supply the next step of the bumper process. (This is a VERY oversimplified LEAN concept.)
The idea of OUTSIDE suppliers participating in the JIT process is not pure LEAN to start with. Other factors must be considerd and applied.
I have heard the stories about deer breaking thu a glass wall and running thru the halls of the site. I have even seen a sign saying there was a SKUNK somewhere in the building... but I have not witnessed either.
Are you saying that neither of the stadiums in Detroit were built with tax payer money?
I know Qualcomm Stadium where the Chargers play has $70 million of tax payer dollars rotting in the seats. It cost us something like $18 million last year to pay for unsold tickets. Qualcomm put up a few million to get their name on the stadium. It was the tax payers that got screwed. Now our stadium that was upgraded so we could have a Super Bowl is out of date, and they want better boxes for the fat cats and millions more in wasted tax dollars. I say let the Chargers and the Padres can move to another city. Bunch of worthless losers. Sports teams are nothing but a drain on the tax payers. I would not waste my time to go see any pro sports game if someone gave me the tickets and took me to the game in a helicopter.
Can a UAW member afford to go to a game at Comerica? Will his car still be in the parking lot when the game is over? And why did Comerica bail out of Detroit and move to a friendlier city? Could it be the Union entitlement mentality that is so pervasive in Michigan?
i was tempted to google some of that info you posted, but just rolled the dice.
anyways, it seems that maybe LEAN doesn't quite work in all circumstances.
one thing i don't understand about your explanation of LEAN is why a multifunctional machine(fenders and bumpers) would cost less than than a single function machine(fenders only).
HEY! Happy New Year Everyone!
Basicilly, a single-function machine which can only do one task efficently would have to sit idle once it has done its quota. (Remember... building ahead is considerd waste)
It is far better to have a machine that may not be as fast at making fenders as one costing 3X... but the ability to convert it quickly to do other tasks is FAR more efficent use of the machine. Also, having a number of smaller-cheaper machines means some could be turned off when not needed.
Traditional Indrustial-engineering concepts say that a single, hugely-expensive machine needs to be manned and run continously in order to pay for itsself. (which means build-ahead and thus WASTE)
I know that many of the LEAN concepts are difficult to grasp. I had to attend hours of class with hands-on examples before I saw why this was better.
One of the main things about LEAN is to not look at the effency of each "step" in a process. Instead focus on the entire process. This concept of looking at the ENTIRE process goes against many traditional Industrial-Engineering concepts which focus on optomizing each step in a process.
Here is an example using a human as the machine...
What if you had an employee that ONLY knew how to install lugnuts....and there were no lugnuts to install?
1)If this was a UAW worker, they could take a coffee-break until more lugnuts were available.
2)In a LEAN company, this worker would be trained and expected to find somthing else to do which is productive. (Grab a mop, grease somthing, shovel snow...whatever needs to be done)
People are the ones whom get vested. Most folks who work 30 years might be 100% vested. Therefore, they would get the full amount entitled. The question is if the pension is fully funded. As has been my experience, the way the stockmarket, so goes the pension fund. During good times they might be fully funded. That is a certain amount should be in the plan to be able to pay a certain amount of retirees for the duration of their retirement. Bottom line is that I suspect that the PBGC/taxpayers doesn't want an underfunded plan and if anything they will have to add to it above/beyond the rate of return.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. was already in the hole before the stock-market meltdown and the credit freeze shut down U.S. economic growth this fall.
"It’s hard to imagine how the PBGC could get out of this in the long run without a taxpayer bailout," said Jeffrey Brown, finance professor at the University of Illinois. Brown estimates that an additional $50 billion to $100 billion or more of taxpayer money might be needed in the next decade or later to bail out the PBGC
.He said that the PBGC could inherit more than $100 billion of pension obligations if Ford or GM filed for bankruptcy and the pension funds were turned over to the agency. No one knows what kind of liabilities the PBGC could — or even would — get in such a scenario.
http://www.star-telegram.com/100/story/1113339.html
If you did twice as much, I doubt that they would pay you twice as much. I've seen green belts, black belts, and sigma six certified folks. Its a phase, prior it was TQM, and it passed too. If you read the book "lean way of thinking" you Pratt Whitney, Harley Davidson, big/small companies, union/non union companies and every kind of company you can imagine has had this lean ideology. I came away with some useful ideas, but then again I see companies stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I've been in keizen event too. In the end I respect the concept and would borrow from it, but I'm light years ahead and aim to stay that way.
Don't get me wrong, I wish it were that easy. Processes have to be refined in some manner and it may as well be lean. Anything that innovates is fine by me. I'm sure your aware that for years Toyota and GM have been running an auto plant together. NUMMI builds cars/trucks and they are UAW represented.
Fortunately I work for the most enterprising corporation on the planet and on the top ten of every list of business journals/magazines. I'm assuming your at GE.
Quality problems have been creeping up at Toyota, which traditionally has a stellar reputation for reliability. Toyota’s recalls have ballooned over the last couple of years, and President Katsuaki Watanabe has promised to beef up quality control.
Last month, Consumer Reports said Toyota “is showing cracks in its armor” and will no longer get automatic recommendations from the magazine when it releases new or redesigned vehicles. It also removed several Toyota vehicles from its recommended list because of quality issues.
The “Toyota way” of manufacturing is emulated by manufacturers around the world not only because it eliminates waste but also because it empowers the individual worker. In principle, workers are encouraged to stop an entire assembly lines if a problem arises.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21905430/
Waste = muda = fecal matter
TAKT time = I don't drink coffee, but beer is fine. I suppose we would have to drink saki? Miller beer is UAW beer. Because we live the HIGH LIFE.
That is speculation and being promoted by the fear-mongers. There is just as strong an argument that Chapter 11 would allow a smaller more competitive US auto industry emerge. I'd sure like to run the experiment. Chrysler and GM anyone?
1)If this was a UAW worker, they could take a coffee-break until more lugnuts were available.
2)In a LEAN company, this worker would be trained and expected to find somthing else to do which is productive. (Grab a mop, grease somthing, shovel snow...whatever needs to be done)
Case 2, how naive! Do you really think that a UAW worker would break their STUPID work rules to do something different? Perhaps it is too taxing to train the lug nut guy to sweep or grease something. It might endanger the worker, their needs to be an EXPERT greaser who won't hurt himself with that grease gun! The lug nut guy should take a coffee break!
Thank MNF
I try to gather the news from the two extremes of Fox and CNN, throw in some CNBC and C-Span and make a decision based on that and other sources that may come along, such as your's and other's links.
Keeping in mind that Bush was addressing the Department of Housing and Urban Development ( HUD). Of course he was going to say what they wanted to hear. Politicians do that. It buys votes.
http://www.hud.gov/news/speeches/presremarks.cfm
If he was addressing a UAW meeting, I suspect he would have talked about the glory of organized labor, even though they typically endorse democrats. Politicians do that. It buys votes.
I agree that his intentions were well meaning. Some of his reasoning was good. But I would like to believe that he expected the monies to help with the down payments to folks that could actually pay back the loans.
It doesn't take away from the fact that this home ownership thing was started by Jimmy Carter, accelerated by Clinton, and during his first and second term Bush was concerned that the lending practices were overwhelming the system.
I agree that de regulation open too many doors. Banks were free to make loans to anybody with a pulse, because they could sell those loans to Freddie or Fannie if or when they didn't work out.
I don't remember his name, but the head of either Freddie or Fannie admitted at a Senate or House hearing ( is that vague enough) that he got additional compensation for the amount of the loans they accumulated. He also reluctantly admitted that he was on the board that arrived at his compensation.
There is plenty of blame to go around. I repeat: Obama needs to understand the whole picture and not blame the Bush administration for all the problems.
Even though Bush recognized the problem, he accomplished nothing to fix it. So there is a lot of blame there. Unless he may have tried but congress wouldn't go along. That we will likely never know.
Different subject addressed to another poster : The landslide loss of congressional seats by the dems in the mid 90 had a lot to do with the 1994 Gun Control (10 year ban) passed by congress just prior to the election. Everyone that belonged to the NRA, or any other gun friendly group, received mail naming names of the Congress and Senate members that had voted for the Ban. There were enough pissed off gun owners that swung the outcome vote to the republicans.
In 2004, when the Ban was due to "Sun Set", Bush told congress that if they voted to continue it, he would sign it into law. They apparently decided to let it sunset.
Kip
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
- Cicero - 55 BC"
"Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given
for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration? Anybody? Anything? No?
Bottom line . . we've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember.
Ready? It was very simple, and at the time everybody thought it very appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted 8-04-1977 TO LESSEN
OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL. HEY, PRETTY EFFICIENT, HUH?
AND NOW IT'S 2008, 31 YEARS LATER, AND THE BUDGET FOR
THIS NECESSARY DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR, THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES AND LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY 'WHAT WAS I THINKING?'
Ah yes, good ole bureaucracy. And now we are going to turn the Banking system over to them? God Help us."
Probably all union jobs paying top dollar. My question is how many spend their day surfing the web, with nothing else to do. Where were these 116,000 people we are paying $24 billion per year when oil prices shot through the roof? Did they spend any time investigating Soros and his hedge funds that were involved in much of the oil speculation. Or is that some other union agency that investigates currency and commodity speculation. Sadly we have all the ingredients in this new administration and Congress to expand the Federal government by a very large number. How many new agencies will it take to over see the spending of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS....
To compete is one thing. The legacy is a burden on the big three, which is beyond anything the competition has. Its been my experience that assets would have to be sold off, and more than likely have been sold off. Does GM own EDS any longer? Then in the end the trustee would have to go along with dumping the entire liquidation onto the taxpayers. You also have to be aware they would assure 100% of those on a pension and 50% to 75% of others whom are vested but yet not retired.
I don't see this any different that LTV steel conglomerate. My question would be if that would effect the profitable GM overseas? Would they be burdened by the legacy? Would they be allowed to sell, lets say each plant as a stand alone and or each division, parts without the legacy tied to those parts? Then we would be fools not to ignore any medical benefits they don't honor would increase the social services costs to taxpayers.
Further evidence suggests:
But puzzlement is giving way to concern, as the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp has warned that Delphi is some $3.5b in the hole on its pension obligations. And no wonder, considering GM saddled it with pension obligations from several closed and sold factories as a spin-off goodbye present in 1999, a move pension experts call "legal." As in there ought to be a law against it. Meanwhile, hundreds of the non-Delphi retirees have received letters from the supplier saying their pensions are at risk, thanks to Delphi's bankruptcy. Delphi is supposed to transfer $1.5b in (hourly retiree) obligations back to moneybags GM, but mysteriously that hasn't happened yet, prompting the PBGC's concern with the situation. Though Delphi's bosses swear up and down that they're committed to honoring pension obligations, if the transfer doesn't happen by September 30 when new PBGC rules go into effect, Delphi will likely find itself in pension default. Which means hundreds of workers who never even worked for Delphi would be at the mercy of the PBGC. And those same new rules mean the PBGC will likely not honor most planned payment step-ups and early retirement benefits. "I don't want a handout," says one retiree. "I want General Motors to pay my pensions like they told me they were going to do."
then there is
Pension plans in America no longer represent commitments that financially troubled companies will honor. Neither bankruptcy courts, nor Washington, nor unions have the clout to make them do so. The disposition of these plans is instead left to serve the needs of big investors. Often these investors are a failing company’s best hope of restructuring after bankruptcy. Investors want a lean investment unburdened with financial promises to employees no longer on the payroll. Despite laws passed to discourage the termination of plans, the courts allow it, caving in to the forces garnered to reinvigorate a failing company. Unions are often compelled to choose between the financial welfare of retirees and jobs for active workers.
Pension Dumping explains in shocking detail how terminating the pension plan became a knee-jerk strategy for bankrupt companies that hope to attract big investors to help them reorganize.
Hawthorne traces the dynamics and the players involved as a pension is targeted for termination:
the bankruptcy court and the hierarchy of power that dictates whose interests will prevail
the choices forced on unions
the burden placed on the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
the risks investors take and the returns they look for
the companies’ efforts to salvage what they can as they restructure, as well as the backlash they risk by breaking pension promises
more fear mongering
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. steps in to take over failed pension plans. After studying updated pension information for the auto makers in recent weeks, the agency has grown increasingly concerned that it might have to cover billions of dollars in pensions if one or more of the car companies should file for bankruptcy-court protection.
The agency's letters were sent as the auto makers scramble to assemble blueprints for congressional leaders demanding viable business plans in exchange for a $25 billion bailout.
Generally, the auto companies have positioned themselves as well-prepared to continue paying pensions for several years to come.
When GM last gave a year-end update on its pension funds, the funds covered more than 400,000 retirees and were overfunded by $18.8 billion. But earlier this month, GM said its plan for hourly workers was underfunded by $500 million because of restructuring expenses. Its plan for salaried employees remains overfunded by at least $500 million.
The PBGC, which insures the retirement savings of almost 44 million Americans, ended last year with a $14 billion deficit. That shortfall narrowed to about $11 billion as of late September. Were GM to place its pension burden on PBGC, it would more than double the agency's current shortfall.
—Matthew Dolan contributed to this article
Quality problems have been creeping up at Toyota...
Who learned what from whom?
The golf course is gaining traction - Carpocalypse Now (Jalopnik). Note the snide comment - "they teach leadership courses there."
The Wall Street Journal, meanwhile, is trying to blame the UAW for all of Detroit's woes, including CAFE, shareholders getting wiped out, debt holders getting a haircut, Daimler's dumping of Chrysler and if you look close enough, the War of 1812 is probably buried in there somewhere too. link.
GM is BROKE. They believed when they made the deal with the UAW long years ago that the gravy train selling big profit vehicles would continue to rise Forever. GM screwed up and those that believed in them are screwed. If PBGC were to take over the GM pension fund in the case of bankruptcy the current pensioners would probably get 100% of their pension. I don't think they cover any health care under PBGC. That will be on the pensioner's shoulders. If they are not 65 they may need to go back to some job that pays health care or just bite the bullet and buy a plan until they are 65. Those that are vested with 5 years or more may or may not get the full amount of retirement they are expecting.
If PBGC is showing a deficit of $14 billion they need to cut pensions to bring the fund back into the black. There is no earthly reason the tax payers should be burdened with private pensions that fail. The laws are in place to protect those pension funds. If PBGC is doing what they are paid to do they should be floating along ok.
It sounds like it is the same kind of Ponzi scheme we have been sold with Social Security and Medicare. And people want to give the government more to over see. What a joke this country has become.
The UAW better do whatever it takes to keep GM afloat. Get rid of the two tier wage and put everyone under $20 per hour would be a start. A fork lift driver or a lug nut assembler is not worth $20 an hour in Michigan today. I can hire skilled journeymen carpenters, plumbers, block layer, concrete finishers and electricians in CA for $20-$30 per hour contract. They pay all their own medical, SS and retirement for that price. They supply truck and tools. And are happy to get the work. UAW workers need to come into the 21st century. They are living in the past. And the past is about to disappear. Welcome to 2009......
After the dot com bubble the FED started lowering the interest rates to fuel the economy. This is the beginning of the sub prime mess. Prior they were making loans to dot com companies who weren't even making a profit. Everyone in Washington went along. If Bush had any vision he would have not tampered with interest rates or gotten the FED to leave things alone. He failed to see the big picture, which is only a small piece of the big puzzle. Then the manner in which they packaged the loans and sold them as assets is an entirely different situation. They should have labeled them correctly as junk loans and not some fancy coined marketing label to hide their true nature. We can only agree and have evidence that the govt acted to fix the problem after the fact. There was ample opportunity to act prior and avoid the whole situation all together.
The landslide loss of congressional seats by the dems in the mid 90 had a lot to do with the 1994 Gun Control (10 year ban) passed by congress just prior to the election. Everyone that belonged to the NRA, or any other gun friendly group, received mail naming names of the Congress and Senate members that had voted for the Ban. There were enough pissed off gun owners that swung the outcome vote to the republicans.
I saw the NRA as a subset of many. Many UAW rank and file members are NRA members too. You had pro life folks and others too. Many UAW members are pro life too. They played every group they could. The Bob Jones University incident is a classic example of how politics is done. McCain, would have been the GOP winner if not for the Carl Rove political smear tactic. Well the GOP had their chance and its rather obvious that Americans want a change and or look for Obama to save them. I think that those NRA/pro life/other special interest groups voted their pocketbooks in 06 and 08. Strong powerful like minded groups/special interests/lobby's/unions/AARP ban together at times to put forth their agenda. However, their first priorities are the economy when all is said and done.
for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration?
Was it the embargo? When was the strategic reserve started?
I do see your point. Then you have to see the mass deregualtion of the private sector as failure. The best we can say is big business = big govt = big labor and hence they keep each other in check. Wonder what percentage of GNP is govt and its different dept? Is defense 3%? Is EPA 1%?
It's hard to relate that stuff to the UAW though.
Not for me. It is the Unions and UAW that put yokels like Carter in the White House. I was in Alaska and do not remember any gas shortage. Though the Unions up there were also misguided in their voting preferences.
For those who believe that the Bush administration is not responsible for this economic crisis, PLEASE stop listening to talk radio and take a class in Micro and Macro Economics. It is so sad that our country has at least 40 - 50% of the population who are repeating Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage’s opinions as though they were factual. Even sadder is the fact that those who believe this propaganda have no savings, no wealth, no 401K, so they have not felt the pain of losing their life savings.
The GOP has been on the defensive over this and unable to accept it. For the sake of argument, we could say that Clinton didn't run a surplus. Then we can go on to the facts of this so called GOP and their downsizing govt and spending. Then look at history and we have to admit its a fools errand. So then we can point our finger at congress and their pork spending. Look at the percentage of GNP pork is and there is nothing there. The GOP has acted like a drunken sailor on shore leave is what history bears out. This let the free markets decide deregulation, borne of the Reagan era is what we have just seen before our eyes. $700 BILLION and counting. Could they be wrong about anything else? Could they perhaps be wrong about the UAW? I believe in personal responsibility and someone needs to fess up.
Whose fault is that?
My question would be if that would effect the profitable GM overseas? Would they be burdened by the legacy? Would they be allowed to sell, lets say each plant as a stand alone and or each division, parts without the legacy tied to those parts?
I don't know enough about BK on how this could work. Can GM spin off some profitable entities that are overseas? It seems like it is the US portion only that is really sick. If they had a structure like:
GM corporate HQ
GM N America
GM China
GM Europe
GM Australia
Then perhaps they could just BK the NA division and retain corporate HQ and the rest of the company?
FAIL.
That would be the smart thing to do. Then GM has not done anything that seemed all that wise over the last 30 years. GM can build any car in Mexico or So America that they can build here only cheaper. I just don't think they can break out of the repressive UAW contracts and legacy without filing for C11.