"among the union's biggest fixed assets, have lost $23 million in the past five years alone, a heavy albatross around the union's neck
Another example of the stupidity in the UAW. You can remember when the AK Teamsters built that big hospital, Dental clinic, Rec center, headquarters building in Anchorage? They, the AK Teamster's leaders, being smarter that the UAW leadership, got rid of all those assets. I don't have the exact cost to build and what they were sold for. The bottom line the rank and file members are not supporting those extravagant buildings.
They did build a huge resort in Indian Wells near Palm Springs. It was not even open to members of the Teamsters. We probably could not afford to join. The bottom line is our $13 million land investment with the Pension Trust money has netted to date over $450 million.
What has the UAW done for their members lately, except drive jobs out of the country?
i agree that many of the members of the UAW invested the fruits of their labors in their family's and communities. michigan has some really great state higher education institutions. i guess it is hard to separate the organization from the individuals. many people in michigan have a passion for the automobile. if you have ever spent any time there, it is pretty obvious. from what i have gathered, the people installing the lug nuts on hondas and toyotas are getting paid about the same as their UAW counterparts. the difference is in the legacy costs.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
on this Christmas weekend, hope all yours was happy...
Saturn is not critical for the survival of GM...after reading a few books lately (Call Me Roger, Comeback), they document Saturn as a multi-billion dollar loser from the day it ran the first car off the line...what Roger Smith envisioned in his mind never became true...cost overruns, quality problems, made the division no different than any other GM division, like Chevy or Buick...
As far as supplier bankruptcies following a GM bankruptcy, that may be the cost of fixing the whole shebang...because if GM does NOT file Chapter 11, than all you really are doing is, literally, maintaining the status quo of the last 30-plus years, by not forcing necessary change onto GM...it MUST shed, and destroy, the UAW, so it can relieve itself of its unmanageable debt that is, and will, kill it...
To not force the change will simply mean that tomorrow will be no different than a day in 1982, 1993 or 2004, and the underlying problem will not change, so, like termites eating away at a wood foundation, all will look OK until the foundation is simply gone...it is gone as we speak, but a bailout will simply hide it for another moment in the future...
You need to stop looking at contracts that were signed and obligations that were committed to...if the $$$ is not there to make it work, then the contract has no choice but to be breached...
After all, every person or company that files for bankruptcy is, in effect, breaching every financial agreement they have committed to perform...but the reality is simple, like it or not...if the money isn't there, the money isn't there...so breach of contract becomes the ONLY viable option...you cannot get blood from a stone...
Should management have agreed to all those provisions in past UAW contracts???...obviously, no...but, at the time they signed them, GM, Ford and Chrysler never dreamed that their market share would drop so low, and their sales would drop even lower...that, in itself, is an expression of the sheer arrogance of Detroit, as the Japanese automakers came in, made much better cars, and the Big 3 simply thought they were a flash in the pan...
So, we can agree that management was stupid to sign the contracts, but that is now water under the bridge...they now have the ability to make millions more cars that they can/will sell, and they need to downsize by thousands of workers and a goodly number of factories, simply because we will not buy all they can make, as we have found alternatives that the American buying public simply believes are better made...
So, after pointing fingers at stupid management, and union workers who simply can't count the number of bolts needed to hold a window regulator in place ( that, rocky, is what happens when all those "skilled workers" you refer to actually perform their jobs), and now union workers who will strike rather than compromise, they have no choice but to jettison the workers, jettsion the agreements, and move forward in a much smaller, but stronger, automaker...
What many folks cannot imagine is simply a GM that was once a world power on its own, now a large player but not the power it once had...kinda like the old Soviet Union...previously a superpower, and now still a major player on the world stage, but not with the power it once had...GM will be like that...even a 20-25% market share will keep it a major player, just not the 65% market share it had in the 50s and 60s...
have we had any UAW members join us in here, to your recall? Most thinking people who have followed this thread are having a hard time feeling sorry for the UAW's.
Question to any of you UAW workers out there soon to get canned from your jobs: Are you looking in to getting re-training? College in your 40's?
Or are you scheming to try and collect from what must be hard up midwest states for months of U.I. That is while your chance to re-train fizzles away and you decide to eat some steak on your U.I. every so often. Why not, you reason, you deserve it, right?
Pfft! :P
So far CNN or HLN or Bar-bwa Wah-Wah and her donut-eating dork buddies on The View(except Elisabeth Hasselbeck ) don't see any reason to do any stories on this issue. Yet the story is huge, it's not just large, it H-U-G-E with a pronoounced H! Not just one of the U-G-E's, with the H silent. This is HUGE, my car-crazy friends.
This 17.5B large is not gonna be enough to turn GM-Titanic away from the iceberg, which in their case, is theirselves.
most posters here and a lot of other people have fallen for a classic 'misdirection'. are there big problems in the domestic auto industry? yes. are they the root cause of our economic problems?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I've mentioned Black Lake Family Education Center prior. Its paid for by the UAW membership. Summer family scholarships are available to all the membership. Not just the top of the pecking order. My family and I have been there and I would highly recommended it to the UAW membership. Lucy and Desi honeymooned in the old/original lodge. Each week during the winter months leadership has training there. Chaplin's week, local paper editors week, and the many other sub organizations use it. The Big Three and high level union officials have also broken bread and discussed issues pertaining to the membership. FAUX NEWS is just so full of fecal matter to even think that bail out money and or any other than the members money bought, built, and maintains it. An indolent duffer reporter will do anything for a sensationalize story, which lacks research and or truth.
Now ask them about the AIG
The Walter and May Reuther UAW Family Education Center is located on Black Lake near Onaway, Michigan. It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund. No union anywhere in the world offers an education center of this magnitude to its members. With its stunning design, beautiful location, and warm, open atmosphere it is the envy of labor educators.
$147,302 for banquets $139,375 on rooms $23,380 for spa services $6,939 for golf $5,016 at the Stonehill Tavern $3,065 for in-room dining and the lobby lounge $2,949 for gratuities $1,901 at the Monarch Bayclub $1,488 at the resort’s Vogue Salon Cost of prostitutes unknown
"among the union's biggest fixed assets, have lost $23 million in the past five years alone, a heavy albatross around the union's neck
I would have liked to see Senator Corker asking Goldfinger about his UAW golf club at the same time he was asking the CEOs about their private jets. Let's spread the publicity around about the D3 - over the past ten years, while the CEOs were jetting and the UAW was golfing, the automobiles were filled with hard plastic, bad head gaskets, and failing transmissions.
Open your wallet, as a taxpayer you must do your civic duty.
I'm not sure why the AMA and the practice of medicine has been interjected into to a UAW discussion(?)
The AMA/UAW is the union/lobby for doctors/rank and files. So they watch over the doctors/tank and files best interests. Did you not read the link?
If you wish to refute any of the "PSEUDO FACTS", please bombard me with some logic and or deductive reasoning. The fact that the AMA has and will continue to limit the supply of doctors and therefore some will suffer needlessly and or die is a reality. More doctors, means lower fees/costs and therefore more health care to humans. I know right from wrong. I know that what the AMA does is wrong in comparison to the transgressions (if any) of the UAW.
What's nuttier is that GM management just went along with their bloated demands! That's the Gary Payton jumper that swished right through to beat the Bulls, people. They just went along with it, to their eventual early demise.
As far as not retiring early, I agree thats a fatal mistake. I believe that one has to have outside interests or a hobby.
Your GM management going along with it is just silly. Just go into any dealership and tell them some terms which they don't agree with. More than likely your demands will not be met. You will be leaving in the same car you drove in. In any economic exchange both parties must agree that they will be better off and therefore its a bilateral situation. Demanding unilaterally that Iraq be a democracy didn't and won't work.
As I recall, the Bulls won 2 threepetes in the 90's (the NBA's greatest era). While a quick first step is vital to getting the defensive player back, you have to prove you can drive before getting respect. Otherwise you will get packed. No disrespect intended, but Payton is no Jordan, or for that matter he isn't even a Pippen. From those below Stockton is my pick of the litter.
Karl Malone. Charles Barkley. John Stockton. Gary Payton. Patrick Ewing. Alonzo Mourning.
Those aren't just the names of great players, those are the great players that never won a championship in the 90s for one reason - Michael Jeffery Jordan.
after reading a few books lately (Call Me Roger, Comeback),
AIG, Sept. 17, 2008: $85 billion guaranteed by the Federal Reserve.
Bear Stearns, Mar. 16, 2008: $29 billion guaranteed by the Federal Reserve
MBIA, Dec. 10, 2007: $1 billion from private equity fund Warburg Pincus
UBS, Dec. 10, 2007: $11.5 billion from Singapore’s sovereign wealth fund, along with an unnamed Middle Eastern investor
E*Trade Financial, Nov. 29, 2007: $2.55 billion from Citadel Investment Group
Citigroup, Nov. 26, 2007: $7.5 billion from Abu Dhabi’s sovereign wealth fund
Countrywide Financial, Aug. 22, 2007: $2 billion from Bank of America
Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund, Aug. 13, 2007: $3 billion from Goldman Sachs and investors including C.V. Starr & Co. and Eli Broad
U.S. Domestic Airlines, September 2001: $15 billion from the U.S. government
Russia, 1998: $17 billion in loans from the International Monetary Fund
Long Term Capital Management, 1998: $3.6 billion from various Wall Street firms
Apple, August 1997: $150 million from rival Microsoft(beat Sony Walkman with an IPOD senseless)
Mexico, 1995: $50 billion in loans ($20 billion from the U.S. and more than $30 billion from the International Monetary Fund, Europe, private banks, and other trading partners)
Salomon Brothers, 1987: $700 million from Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway
Various U.S. Savings and Loans, 1986-1995: $124 billion from the FDIC
Continental Illinois, 1984: $1 billion in capital from the FDIC, which also guaranteed the bank’s $30 billion in uninsured deposits and assumed $3.5 billion of the company’s debt
Chrysler, January 1980: $1.5 billion in loans from the U.S. government
City of New York, 1975: $150 million from the New York City Teachers’ Union plus refinancing $3 billion of its debt
Lockheed Aircraft, 1971: $250 million in loan guarantees from Congress
New York City Trusts, 1907: $50 million ($30 million from John Pierpont Morgan, along with other bankers and $25 million from the U.S. Treasury)
So whats Apples market share of the MP3 player market?
As head of one of the nation’s most powerful unions, Gettelfinger doesn’t earn nearly as much as Detroit’s top CEOs. GM’s Rick Wagoner, for example, made more than $14 million last year. But Gettelfinger’s total compensation of nearly $160,000 annually far exceeds the U.S. median gross family income of $61,500 and puts him among the top five percent of all tax filers, according to U.S. Census Bureau and IRS data.
And the UAW is anything but poor, with net assets reportedly worth an estimated $1.23 billion. UAW membership has been declining for years, as it has for most major unions, but annual income from member dues, interest and other revenues exceeded $300 million in 2006.
They did build a huge resort in Indian Wells near Palm Springs. It was not even open to members of the Teamsters. We probably could not afford to join. The bottom line is our $13 million land investment with the Pension Trust money has netted to date over $450 million.
Lets see if I'm getting this right? They used your money to build that? Then you can use it?
I don't see the cost benefit ratio with this stuff.
If I'm a Ford shareholder, I don't see a lot of benefit for all the exec perks they get either. Something like the Henry Ford Museum is cool, but that's not supported by the shareholders. I doubt that Mulally went to Ford because they bought him a country club membership.
The golf course was added later on. Its a money maker by fact that its a top course. I don't golf either, but its the only place one can drink and drive. Its basketball courts are great too, as my youngest put on a show for all the UAW members. Better than an NBA game. I would highly recommend that UAW members apply to go for an unforgettable vacation. You will make some lifetime friendships, your given facts, you draw your own conclusions in groups and as an individuals. Accommodations and food are beyond your expectations in this natural setting. The younger children are taken on field trips.
It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund.
The AMA/UAW is the union/lobby for doctors/rank and files. So they watch over the doctors/tank and files best interests.
I did not see the AMA begging for money from the US government. So what is your point about them? Are you saying that the UAW has never protected a member that should have been fired?
but annual income from member dues, interest and other revenues exceeded $300 million in 2006. Lets seperate the winners from the losers please.
Good idea. What is their current condition? Did they generate big profits this year? Too bad they have driven the Big 3 onto the verge of bankruptcy.
Lets see if I'm getting this right? They used your money to build that?
Kind of a long story. The governor told the Teamsters they could not invest anymore into the state as they were gaining too much control. So they went out in the desert near Palm Springs and bought a huge tract of land. They then developed it as an investment. It has netted the Pension Fund approximately $450 million. Never was designed as a playground for the Union members.
The golf course was added later on. Its a money maker by fact that its a top course. It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund.
Because it is funded from the strike fund interest it is not real money lost? A $23 million loss does not sound like a money making golf course to me. Most year round golf courses lose money in this country. They are a tax shelter for rich people. If the UAW is rich enough to own a golf course. Why are we bailing them out.
That $23 million would go a long ways re-training the 1000s of UAW workers that lost jobs this month alone. Those UAW jobs are gone forever. Those people will need to learn new skills. It is the UAW's responsibility, not GM's or the US tax payer's responsibility. Good to see you have your priorities in line.
I did not see the AMA begging for money from the US government.
Lobby's and special interest cost the consumer more. Just as when the govt pays farmers to not grow and or to grow certain crops. We pay at the store. Supply of any certain service or item is rationed by price. So therefore, less people in the medical profession means, higher cost at doctors office. You certainly don't think that these big lobbies spend millions on public relations? Giant pharmaceuticals go to Washington to protect their members special interest. Hence, when you go to the drug store you pay more than if they were absent in a capitalist system. I say let the markets decide and put an end to all these groups who seek to enrich their members. Begging/bribing they are. Implicitly or explicitly they seek special treatment outside the supply and demand structure. At the least you must consider Medicare and Medicaid money taxpayer funds. These people are not stupid and they are getting their moneys worth and then more.
Such is a day in the life of one of 17,800 registered Washington lobbyists upon whom interest groups spent $1.56 billion last year to sway Congress and the executive branch — numbers that are grossly understated due to the narrow definition of "registered lobbyist," says Jeffrey Birnbaum, author of The Lobbyists: How Influence Peddlers Get Their Way in Washington. An estimated 40 percent of those 17,800 lobbyists promote health care agendas, according to James Albertine, president of the Alexandria, Va.-based American League of Lobbyists. To put it another way, there are 13 health care lobbyists for each of the 535 members of Congress. Among their most passionate causes this year are Medicare reimbursements and tort reform.
Hundreds of medical groups have a lobbying presence in Washington. The AMA — the third-largest lobbying group (based on expenditures) — spent about $17 million in 2000, the latest year for which figures are available.
Collectively, health care groups spent $209 million in 2000 to gain passage of bills that benefit their members or to sideline legislation that might harm them. That places health care interests third in lobbying expenditures, behind power brokers for finance, insurance, and real estate, who spent $229 million, and manufacturers and retailers, who invested $224 million in their work.
Because it is funded from the strike fund interest it is not real money lost?
Its absolutely real money and belongs to the membership. It has nothing to do with the Big Three funds and or anyone else's funds. The UAW membership elects on how to spend their money and not FAUX NEWS. Certainly you don't let the Teamsters tell you how to spend your money. Above and beyond my union dues, I have elected to fund CAP within the UAW to represent my interests in Washington. I did so of self interest and of my own free will. The AIG scandal will go down in history of how a few high level executives enjoying the spoils of taxpayer funding and the UAW rank and file membership has equal access to their resort paid by UAW money.
Its absolutely real money and belongs to the membership.
You continue to deflect from the issue here. Was spending money on a golf course and resort beneficial to all UAW employees? I think NOT. When that project was started the UAW was a strong, wealthy, vibrant Union. Now it is a weak remnant of days gone by. Yet they hang on to the past and waste the member's money to support an entity that probably less than 10% can afford to use. Not to mention the 1000s that have lost their jobs and cannot afford the gas to even get to THEIR fancy golf course and resort. Or are you saying UAW members get free green fees and lodging in the hotel along with free meals for their $23 million lost? It has nothing to do with AIG or the AMA. It has to do with the members and how their money is spent. Do they get to vote on keeping this money losing operation?
We as Teamsters were given a chance to express our dissatisfaction with a rec center and hospital that was losing money. And we sold it before it drained our finances. I keep forgetting the UAW leadership only look out for themselves.
A lot of businesses and organizations made investments in the past, such as Black Lake that now may look bad, doesn't mean they are bad or were bad, but now, they look bad because the money is no longer there to support them.
Retraining? College at 40? There are workers at GM working in maintenance and production with master's degrees. Where do you propose to employ hundreds of thousands of retrained or college educated workers at a living wage, when the majority of the ones being graduated today are not finding work?
In the future, history will show, not protecting U.S. manufacturing and jobs by whatever means necessary, tariffs, protectionism....... will be the reason the golden goose died.
Being jealous or moaning about the UAW or their workers pay, benefits or workload, is not only foolish, it is a misconception. What you see on tv are usually assembly plants, clean, fairly quiet. Go into a fabricating plant or aluminum casting facility, most people would run out of there and never go back. Most UAW workers earn their paychecks and benefits and suffer shortened lives because of their jobs.
UAW members have given concessions in every contract of one type or another for about 20 years, the UAW leadership doesn't want to say that because they always tout the "new" contract as a gain, but ask any UAW member and they can tell you, the UAW has done plenty to help GM and the others over the last several years.
There are non producers at every level of business, usually brothers in laws, nephews, sisters, etc. Rarely are they fired. Maybe there should be a test, like they are proposing for teachers at all levels of business to help weed out the workers that deserve to be fired in all companies? Of course, who would make that decision? I am sure, neither you or I would lose our jobs? Oh, wait, maybe that is why the unions still exist and neet to? It keeps management from hiring more, brothers in laws, nephews, and sisters as dead weight that someone else has to carry at the expense of the real workers?
Was spending money on a golf course and resort beneficial to all UAW employees? I think NOT.
I've been there. My family has been there. Its a Family Education Center during the summer and a leadership education center the rest of the year. If you apply to go, you might get to go. We did. The staff was so wonderful and we came away so much more knowledgeable. I've been on some awesome vacations, this rates right up there. I loved it and know many others whom have came away with the same feelings and it energized us. Its our money, I would never think or dream of telling the Teamsters of what to do with their money. As long as they put it to good use, which they are doing, the membership has no issues.
Sorry, but I'm very blessed to be part of the UAW. They have been very instrumental in my providing for my family. Not just the private schools, cars, homes, and tangibles, but also the many brothers/sisters with which I hold special bonds. Their families as well and the union people of the future. I refuse to disrespect union people, even if there have been instances of abuse (which there were and will be). By far the greater good is being served and everyone, in leadership, that I know is there for the right reasons. Sorry, I can't speak for the Teamsters.
There too I was able to ask some questions. Why are you spending our money on NASCAR? They replied, its a dollar per hour of over time given by the auto manufacturers for each hour of overtime worked. So as to discourage overtime and have UAW members at home with their families. Quality family time, a family values agenda by the UAW.
ecause it is funded from the strike fund interest it is not real money lost? A $23 million loss does not sound like a money making golf course to me. Most year round golf courses lose money in this country. They are a tax shelter for rich people. If the UAW is rich enough to own a golf course. Why are we bailing them out.
I'm surprised that Goldfinger didn't offer to mortgage the golf resort to help out the automakers. After all, that loan money is very critical to the D3. Everybody should sacrifice, right?
Where do you propose to employ hundreds of thousands of retrained or college educated workers at a living wage, when the majority of the ones being graduated today are not finding work?
Show me the statistics where a *majority* of college graduates are not finding work.
Show me the statistics where a *majority* of college graduates are not finding work.
A good friend of mine was here over the holidays. He was a VP at a major bank. He has has to lay off 16 people under him. The price at the pump has also discouraged the energy companies. There is going to be competition for fewer positions by experienced layed off workers and those coming out of college.
That's the weakest outlook in six years and reflects a sharp recent downturn. Just two months ago, a survey by the same group projected a 6.1% increase in hiring. The August survey included 219 employers, 146 of whom responded to the new survey, conducted earlier this month. The big drop in hiring projections is "extremely unusual," says Edwin Koc, the association's director of strategic research.
Like for non-ordinary people like AIG management, the state is now giving them so much. A tax payer bailout of AIG is surely necessary, but it has been justified so that ordinary people suffer less, not management. Its insulting that you would look to the poor for more welfare for the wealthy.
The bailout to AIG, etal, is a farce and an insult to every hard working American whose job may be in jeopardy, not to mention the millions of Americans whose assets and savings built over many years is being vaporized day by day. The perpetrators of the largest fraud in recorded history should be held accountable by the courts through indictments of misfeasance, malfeasance, and outright theft. And where is the Congress, many of whom are complicit in the meltdown of our economy? Obviously our elected representatives lack the courage to deal with the almost total destruction of millions of lives and property.
And yet the talk is merely the elimination of bonuses and/or salary increases. How many billions of dollars have been filched by greedy executives and boards of directors in the form of obscene salaries, bonuses, stock options and other creative forms of payout? The American public has been and continues to be raped and pillaged by greed. Will it never end?
In the future, history will show, not protecting U.S. manufacturing and jobs by whatever means necessary, tariffs, protectionism....... will be the reason the golden goose died.
Sorry, but I don't buy that. The 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, which sharply increased tariffs here & which prompted our trading partners to retaliate by increasing their tariffs, lengthened & deepened the Great Depression & may have been one of the causes of WWII.
Protectionism violates the oldest rule of the marketplace: the customer is always right. Instead, it punishes the customer by raising prices & reducing choice. It leads to mediocrity.
I'm confident that American automakers can produce exciting products that customers want to buy at prices they're willing to pay, but first they (certainly GM) must go through bankruptcy reorganization. That will give new leadership the chance to rebuild the business & shed excessive costs.
GM’s Rick Wagoner, for example, made more than $14 million last year.
Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million. Still a lot of money but a bit less than $14 million. Of course if the stock goes up to $100 he will be sitting pretty.
None of those links say that a majority of college graduates cannot find jobs. Not even close. More inaccurate propaganda. Please convince us of your perspective with factual information.
Its insulting that you would look to the poor for more welfare for the wealthy.
Because of a suggestion that the UAW mortgage their resort to help the D3 somehow now that's having the poor subsidize the wealthy? What a stretch. Calm down, that's not what I said and was not the intent of the post.
The bailout to AIG, etal, is a farce and an insult to every hard working American whose job may be in jeopardy, not to mention the millions of Americans whose assets and savings built over many years is being vaporized day by day. The perpetrators of the largest fraud in recorded history should be held accountable by the courts through indictments of misfeasance, malfeasance, and outright theft. And where is the Congress, many of whom are complicit in the meltdown of our economy? Obviously our elected representatives lack the courage to deal with the almost total destruction of millions of lives and property.
And yet the talk is merely the elimination of bonuses and/or salary increases. How many billions of dollars have been filched by greedy executives and boards of directors in the form of obscene salaries, bonuses, stock options and other creative forms of payout? The American public has been and continues to be raped and pillaged by greed. Will it never end?
No argument there. Glad we agree that all bailouts are an insult.
One point of view would argue that while the financial sector is the *grease* that lubricates our entire economy, other companies such as the D3 are just various sectors that are less fundamental to the economy operating. Circuit City, Mervyn's, Linen's N Things, even GM can go bankrupt -- but the grease is still needed for the ENTIRE economy to run. Not sure I believe the argument but it's not apples to apples with the D3.
Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million.
Not sure how the other compensation is arrived at, but this article from March would indicate well over $2M even without the stock options. Would like to see the details on that. Note that in 2007 GM had a record $39B loss.
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N) Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.
The GM compensation committee cited significant progress over the past few years in reducing the automaker's health care cost burden, increasing growth internationally and improvements in its cars and trucks in the 2007 awards to executives.
Wagoner's compensation rose from about $9.57 million in 2006. The figure was arrived at based on Wagoner's salary, all other compensation and the basis of annual grants.
GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.
GM, which reported a record $39 billion net loss in 2007, released the figures in a proxy statement on Friday afternoon that was filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million. Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million.
deal, dallasdude. My take is one of 20 years of experience in Tech.Illustration at The Boeing Company in Everett, WA. I worked on the 747 and 767 widebody jetliners. Mr.Boeing(actually just a bunch of grey-suited dorks who short-sightedly decided that laying off 40,000+ people had to be done, talk about investing in your best resources, your workers)laid many of us off.
I re-trained in the Allied Healthcare field. It has not been an easy road but it is going great for my wife and I now. She is working as a Cook at the same small hospital I work as a Certified Respiratory Therapist. Simple point to make: there is always a need for Respiratory Therapists and Nurses. The older RT's and Nurses are always retiring.
It is good work, inside and usually clean(the pt.'s can let out some obnoxious smells and liquids that I won't spill out at this time)and full-time hours are there. You do have tests upon tests to pass and then state and national certification. Continuing education is always a requirement, too. But there are some fine schools out there and, what I'd like someone reading in here to comment on, there's usually Fed.monies to loan out to people to get this training.
The system needs more workers and if there is a will there is a way to get re-trained. These types of college grads will find work out there, nationally. Wherever they want to go.
This is not a field that is tied to the Puget Sound area. There's work on the beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington state. There's work all over Michigan!
There's work all over Florida! Idaho! Montana! Wyoming!
Go get it!
Gary Payton is my pick alongside Michael Jordan as the two best guards in NBA hx. The '96 Finals went to da Bulls, because of Michael. But GP, with his doggedly persistent defense+a dynamite talent for picking up steals(hence his nickname 'The Glove')and constantly driving successfully to the hoop(and hitting beautiful long jumpers)has me put Gary at the Top, with MJ. Enjoy your NBA season and a bucketful of great NFL games today, for that matter.
Not sure how the other compensation is arrived at, but this article from March would indicate well over $2M even without the stock options. Would like to see the details on that. GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.
OK it looks per your quote he took home a $1.6 million paycheck. and some non-equity incentive compensation for a total of a possible $3.2 million and then the $700k in other. Add it up and you get $3.9 million possible. Sure would like to see the $700 k broken down. But it is still a long way from the $14 million people like to quote.
From the GM restructuring plan presented to Congress.
A.7 GM Executive Compensation
o No long term incentive pay out 2004 through 2008 o All stock options 1999-2008 underwater
In addition, CEO/Chairman, COO/President and Vice Chairman o Salaries reduced as much as 50% from 2006 to 2007 o CEO has or will forfeit 330,000 options in 2008 and 2009 Other o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006 o 401k matching contribution eliminated in 2008 o Post-65 healthcare benefits eliminated for all salaried employees, including executives As a result of these pay practices, as indicated in the table below, the actual compensation received compared to the Proxy reported compensation shows that the CEO and COO have actually earned far less than what is publicly reported. 2007 Actual Compensation Received Proxy Total Compensation
Agreed that we don't fully understand Wagoner's compensation. It's probably between the $3M or so and the $15ishM reported.
The $700K might be things like life ins, health ins, private jet travel for personal reasons (based upon a company I recently worked for, the CEO was given unlimited personal private jet travel but all the travel was added to his compensation at the end of the year. It's a great perk but still has to be listed as income).
Agreed that underwater options are worthless, but they do have the potential to be worth many times salary if stock price increases.
Not sure what or how much is accrual rate on Supplemental Retirement Plan - some sort of funding of a retirement account that is not actual salary but may be substantial? The links don't quantify this.
In any event, Wagoner clearly has made some progress and it's not an easy situation. But he presided over many poor strategic decisions and did not have the company prepared well for the next inevitable business cycle, which was due to come. If he was losing money in good years it was bound to be bad. Also as you know I question the product decisions - not the CTS and Malibu, but more the Hummers, the Volt, the Camaro, and particularly the lack of 1-2 competitive world-class small cars. The entry level vehicles, even if not profitable, are the keys to the next generation of buyers and their brand loyalty. Too important to leave with the Cavalier or Cobalt.
This is just not Detroit's year. Not only are the Big 3 and the UAW on the verge of bankruptcy. The Detroit Lions have the Worst record in NFL History 0-16. No other team has been shut out since they started playing 16 games. Time to turn out the lights in Michigan and give it back to nature. Best part of the day was Dallas getting beat real bad by Philly. I love it when the Cowboys lose. I think I will be a Titan or Colt fan this year.
After Joe Montana left the 49ers I lost pretty much all interest in the NFL. I do like the Longhorns and rooted for them when they last won the championship 2-3 years ago. I did not like Landry with the Cowboys. I do feel they gave him a raw deal. So it was a double dislike of the Dallas cowboy management. Kind of hard to get too excited when you don't even have a TV to watch. I spend more than enough time in front of this computer debating the UAW.
My oldest gets out in May. He has already found work. A Chem E is worth about $80,000 to the energy indusrty at the moment. I convinced him to take less and work for one of the best companies to launch a career. He interned all three years during the summers. However, he will have to be trained as would any other college grad. We have dozens (young engineers) running around, they are extremely bright and catch on fast.
There many kids, who change majors in their first year. Most likely due to the demands of math or science classes. These often go into the business and or some liberal arts. I'm aware of the decline in science, engineering, and technology students.
While the center believes that most December business grads will be in good shape, it's the upcoming seniors they're thinking of.
"It's the May grads that I'm worried about and the May of 2010 grads that I think will really get hit hard by what's happening in the economy," said Schroeder.
Fourth-year Ashwin Nirmalkumar already knows where he will be working next year. After interning as a summer analyst at Merrill Lynch, he was offered a full-time position for 2009 as an investor banking analyst, complete with benefits and a competitive salary.
His greatest fear is that his offer may not stand.
“It’s a very predictable and reliable pattern,” said Stacey Kole, deputy dean for the full-time M.B.A. program at the University of Chicago’s Graduate School of Business. “When there’s a go-go economy, fewer people decide to go back to school. When things go south, the opportunity cost of leaving work is lower.”
I spend more than enough time in front of this computer debating the UAW.
My computer is on my TV, so is my music, and video games too. I can flip back and forth and even use the phone sometimes. If it wasn't for eating, work, and the gym.......I'd never leave the media room
One point of view would argue that while the financial sector is the *grease* that lubricates our entire economy,
Unfortunately, the business schools are teaching the no value added concept. So where do you think these folks in banks and Wall Street add value? I'm certain that in the future more business will be done online. Realtors, car sales, banking/investment, the mail, news papers and many other industries will evolve to be more efficient.
Sound financial advise is one thing. The growth in exchange traded funds also presents a challenge for the fund industry. These non-traditional funds, with names like SPDRs, WEBs and DIAMONDS, have obtained relief from the commission to facilitate secondary market trading in their shares. These funds have enjoyed tremendous growth. Broker increasingly are offering brokerage accounts with asset-based fees or use other alternative pricing structures, and are developing products that compete with, and are alternatives to, mutual funds. These asset-based pricing structures now are highly competitive with the costs of mutual funds.
Thanks to technology, which has provided better software and portfolio management systems, investment managers who in the past would take institutional accounts with a minimum of $5 million or higher, are more willing to take much smaller accounts.
Its all rather easy and the first $100,000 is what I see as anyones first hurdle. If done soon enough, one is more than not likely to become wealthy. If I can do it, so can anyone else. Knowing the rule of 72 and having a soundly grounded knowledge of economics its a sure thing. While some discuss annuities, I'm of the mind of perpetuities, which will pass from generation to generation.
despite your well wishes for the state of michigan, it is not the type of place that will just roll over and give up. maybe you should visit some time. you will find out it has a lot to offer, besides the UAW.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million.
Yeah one would be crazy to exercise the stock options. However, you have to know more about the Golden Parachute. They have deferred compensations as to reduce taxes. So therefore, he will be getting a steady stream of income for years to come. Many highly compensated folks in Hollywood and sports superstars do this. More or less a untaxable trust fund, with many more implications. An irrevocable grantor trust but subjects the trust assets to claims by the employer’s creditors; a taxable trust, which is protected from the employer’s creditors but taxes are paid on the income a the time the deferred contributions are made; and, bonds which allow the employer to coordinate the retirement with the maturity dates of the bonds. Then some might opt for some type of whole life with a present cash value. Or even all of the above. Arod is a good example, the Texas Rangers are still paying him. Years after going to New York.
Outsourcing our good paying jobs so we can spend a few dollars less on things imported has depleted our purchasing power across the board. If we were to add equal tariffs to items coming into our country like other countries charge, it would level the playing field a bit. It would still be hard for us to compete with prison or child labor.
The Big 3 do produce many attractive vehicles that the American public was buying in huge numbers, GM didn't stay the biggest seller for so long by accident. No one that I have heard of predicted gasoline to jump almost two dollars in one year. Some people don't understand the reason the Big 3, as well as the imports were making the large SUVs and pickup trucks, is, that is what the American public was buying and they were very profitable. It would have been irresponsible not to offer them. The Big 3 also has many smaller, very fuel efficient vehicles that are highly rated, some higher than their comparable import counterparts and priced less or equal. Sadly, the American public doesn't seem to want to support American companies, even though they often say they wish they could buy more American products.
Our economy seems to be based on Micky Ds, health care and paper. One has to wonder, where the money is going to come from, when the rest of our jobs, that produce an actual product are gone?
If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? Instead of lowering our standard of living, perhaps we should hope to raise everyone's standard to a higher level?
They have deferred compensations as to reduce taxes.
My wife gets opportunities for deferred comp about every 4 years and it's incredible the benefits she gets out of it. I think many don't understand how it works, but basically all deferred compensation does is allow the employee to defer and invest compensation for a later date. Probably really nice for a CEO that will be making millions to defer some of that to a date were he will no longer be CEO and possibly pay less tax on that money if he/she has a lower tax bracket when deferred comp is returned.
With my wife's plan, I don't really see it saving us on tax liability. She gets to elect an amount of her salary to defer every 4 years. Sure, we don't pay tax on the deferred salary the year it's deferred, but it will be taxable when the deferred salary is returned. Her plan has an 8 year deferment and provides 15 years of annuity payments based on amount deferred and guaranteed ROR beginning at age 65. Next month she gets a check from her first deferment from 8 years ago. That will be taxable income for '09 unless I put it in a different tax deferment vehicle. The beauty of that deferment is the funds deferred have a 13% guaranteed ROR.
You can riot, write fiery manifestos, cover your ears and eyes in mud and not listen to basic economics, but you can't stop it. The basic economic rule is: your job is safe only when nobody else can do it better for the same money or equally well for less. The truth is, a situation where 1/20 of the World's population consummed 1/5th of World's resources and energy was unstastainable. It was American ingenuity, first-class governance and sheer luck (e.g. avoidance of war destruction and ability to profit from it) that set up that kind of imbalance to run for so long - but it had to end sooner or later. It can end either by making others richer or us poorer, but most likely it happens through both. The world simply caught up.
Yes, it's that simple. Before it was only a guy in Ohio or Michigan that could piece together a decent car frame and not to mention that it would take a fortune to transport so many of those cars back to America, where they were sold. Today high schools in Asia or East Europe teach better than those in Ohio and transportation got also cheap - not to mention those were also local markets for the products. So, a guy in Manilla or Budapest can do it as well as guy in Ohio for less. Those jobs were doomed long before you could write your protest manifesto. What stays? Jobs that no one else can do, like highly specialized manufacturing at competitive price.
maybe you should visit some time. you will find out it has a lot to offer, besides the UAW.
I have several times. My step father's family are in the Midland area, and mostly retired from Dow Chemical. My folks lived in Gaylord for a time and I visited them. It has some pretty areas. That is why I said it would make a nice National Park. As far as industry, it will die a slow agonizing death. Partly as a result of the working class feeling they are entitled to a given wage no matter if the company makes money or not. Add to that the enviro whacko groups that are trying their best to destroy any and ALL industry. You tried to get a permit to build a factory lately? Many states it is just about impossible. The UAW has fought against high tech solutions to auto making. That is the main reason Ford built their state of the art factory in Brazil instead of the USA.
For those that want to stay in Michigan. My advice get into health care or get a license to drive a tour bus. Not sure how many Indian Casinos are in Michigan. Dealing black jack is also a good paying job. My sis makes about $90k per year plus benefits working at an Indian casino. No Unions. And no protection if you don't get along with management. Sovereign nation, they don't tolerate whiners.
You have some good questions there my friend. First of all is that tariffs and or any kind of price support hurts the consumer. It drives up cost of the end product. Thats the abstract idiom. The real world doesn't quite work in a vacuum. There are and will always be special interests out there. So that being said, we need to get the nations of the planet on the same page.
If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? Instead of lowering our standard of living, perhaps we should hope to raise everyone's standard to a higher level?
America doesn't allow cartels, dumping of product (steel), and other price support measures. However, they can be used as tools/weapons at times when other nations don't abide by the no government interference abstract. One could argue that Japan by its nature (an island with few natural resources) has to get some kind of market advantage.
Our economy seems to be based on Micky Ds, health care and paper.
The case in point that special interest have gone to Washington with millions to protect/better their industry/profession is self evident with the health care. Do they as an industry really care about the nations well being? Or are they wanting to get special treatment?
Outsourcing our good paying jobs so we can spend a few dollars less on things imported has depleted our purchasing power across the board. If we were to add equal tariffs to items coming into our country like other countries charge, it would level the playing field a bit. It would still be hard for us to compete with prison or child labor.
The weak dollar as oppose to other currencies should make American made goods more attractive/appealing overseas. Hence, exports should fuel more manufacturing jobs here. This is the only good news in this downturn, we can look forward to. We know that the nations losing these jobs will be thinking along the "keep those jobs lines".
Steel (historically) was an excellent example of dumping, and China is protecting it steel industry in this day and age. OPEC is trying to control supply and therefore price of oil. The AMA and others are keeping medical cost high. They should not cheat the consumer. They behave like spoiled little brats.
So why aren't these issues being dealt with by our govt? Could it be that they are the ones being courted by special interest?
Comments
link title
Another example of the stupidity in the UAW. You can remember when the AK Teamsters built that big hospital, Dental clinic, Rec center, headquarters building in Anchorage? They, the AK Teamster's leaders, being smarter that the UAW leadership, got rid of all those assets. I don't have the exact cost to build and what they were sold for. The bottom line the rank and file members are not supporting those extravagant buildings.
They did build a huge resort in Indian Wells near Palm Springs. It was not even open to members of the Teamsters. We probably could not afford to join. The bottom line is our $13 million land investment with the Pension Trust money has netted to date over $450 million.
What has the UAW done for their members lately, except drive jobs out of the country?
many people in michigan have a passion for the automobile. if you have ever spent any time there, it is pretty obvious.
from what i have gathered, the people installing the lug nuts on hondas and toyotas are getting paid about the same as their UAW counterparts.
the difference is in the legacy costs.
Saturn is not critical for the survival of GM...after reading a few books lately (Call Me Roger, Comeback), they document Saturn as a multi-billion dollar loser from the day it ran the first car off the line...what Roger Smith envisioned in his mind never became true...cost overruns, quality problems, made the division no different than any other GM division, like Chevy or Buick...
As far as supplier bankruptcies following a GM bankruptcy, that may be the cost of fixing the whole shebang...because if GM does NOT file Chapter 11, than all you really are doing is, literally, maintaining the status quo of the last 30-plus years, by not forcing necessary change onto GM...it MUST shed, and destroy, the UAW, so it can relieve itself of its unmanageable debt that is, and will, kill it...
To not force the change will simply mean that tomorrow will be no different than a day in 1982, 1993 or 2004, and the underlying problem will not change, so, like termites eating away at a wood foundation, all will look OK until the foundation is simply gone...it is gone as we speak, but a bailout will simply hide it for another moment in the future...
You need to stop looking at contracts that were signed and obligations that were committed to...if the $$$ is not there to make it work, then the contract has no choice but to be breached...
After all, every person or company that files for bankruptcy is, in effect, breaching every financial agreement they have committed to perform...but the reality is simple, like it or not...if the money isn't there, the money isn't there...so breach of contract becomes the ONLY viable option...you cannot get blood from a stone...
Should management have agreed to all those provisions in past UAW contracts???...obviously, no...but, at the time they signed them, GM, Ford and Chrysler never dreamed that their market share would drop so low, and their sales would drop even lower...that, in itself, is an expression of the sheer arrogance of Detroit, as the Japanese automakers came in, made much better cars, and the Big 3 simply thought they were a flash in the pan...
So, we can agree that management was stupid to sign the contracts, but that is now water under the bridge...they now have the ability to make millions more cars that they can/will sell, and they need to downsize by thousands of workers and a goodly number of factories, simply because we will not buy all they can make, as we have found alternatives that the American buying public simply believes are better made...
So, after pointing fingers at stupid management, and union workers who simply can't count the number of bolts needed to hold a window regulator in place ( that, rocky, is what happens when all those "skilled workers" you refer to actually perform their jobs), and now union workers who will strike rather than compromise, they have no choice but to jettison the workers, jettsion the agreements, and move forward in a much smaller, but stronger, automaker...
What many folks cannot imagine is simply a GM that was once a world power on its own, now a large player but not the power it once had...kinda like the old Soviet Union...previously a superpower, and now still a major player on the world stage, but not with the power it once had...GM will be like that...even a 20-25% market share will keep it a major player, just not the 65% market share it had in the 50s and 60s...
Question to any of you UAW workers out there soon to get canned from your jobs:
Are you looking in to getting re-training? College in your 40's?
Or are you scheming to try and collect from what must be hard up midwest states for months of U.I. That is while your chance to re-train fizzles away and you decide to eat some steak on your U.I. every so often. Why not, you reason, you deserve it, right?
Pfft! :P
So far CNN or HLN or Bar-bwa Wah-Wah and her donut-eating dork buddies on The View(except Elisabeth Hasselbeck
This 17.5B large is not gonna be enough to turn GM-Titanic away from the iceberg, which in their case, is theirselves.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
are there big problems in the domestic auto industry? yes.
are they the root cause of our economic problems?
I've mentioned Black Lake Family Education Center prior. Its paid for by the UAW membership. Summer family scholarships are available to all the membership. Not just the top of the pecking order. My family and I have been there and I would highly recommended it to the UAW membership. Lucy and Desi honeymooned in the old/original lodge. Each week during the winter months leadership has training there. Chaplin's week, local paper editors week, and the many other sub organizations use it. The Big Three and high level union officials have also broken bread and discussed issues pertaining to the membership. FAUX NEWS is just so full of fecal matter to even think that bail out money and or any other than the members money bought, built, and maintains it. An indolent duffer reporter will do anything for a sensationalize story, which lacks research and or truth.
Now ask them about the AIG
The Walter and May Reuther UAW Family Education Center is located on Black Lake near Onaway, Michigan. It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund. No union anywhere in the world offers an education center of this magnitude to its members. With its stunning design, beautiful location, and warm, open atmosphere it is the envy of labor educators.
http://www.uaw.org/about/where/onaway.html
Now ask them about the AIG $440,000 plus bail out blow out party.
http://taxdollars.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/02/after-federal-bailout-aig-fetes- - -in-style-in-oc/?ref=patrick.net
AIG American General spent:
$147,302 for banquets
$139,375 on rooms
$23,380 for spa services
$6,939 for golf
$5,016 at the Stonehill Tavern
$3,065 for in-room dining and the lobby lounge
$2,949 for gratuities
$1,901 at the Monarch Bayclub
$1,488 at the resort’s Vogue Salon
Cost of prostitutes unknown
Really? What facts support this perception?
Glad you asked.
http://books.google.com/books?id=c36bJtWn8iAC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=Saturn++join- t+GM/UAW+undertaking&source=bl&ots=oiPqCMlhSt&sig=jcIfzEPbdSR99yodQtuN7_-487o&hl- =en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
I would have liked to see Senator Corker asking Goldfinger about his UAW golf club at the same time he was asking the CEOs about their private jets. Let's spread the publicity around about the D3 - over the past ten years, while the CEOs were jetting and the UAW was golfing, the automobiles were filled with hard plastic, bad head gaskets, and failing transmissions.
Open your wallet, as a taxpayer you must do your civic duty.
The AMA/UAW is the union/lobby for doctors/rank and files. So they watch over the doctors/tank and files best interests. Did you not read the link?
If you wish to refute any of the "PSEUDO FACTS", please bombard me with some logic and or deductive reasoning. The fact that the AMA has and will continue to limit the supply of doctors and therefore some will suffer needlessly and or die is a reality. More doctors, means lower fees/costs and therefore more health care to humans. I know right from wrong. I know that what the AMA does is wrong in comparison to the transgressions (if any) of the UAW.
As far as not retiring early, I agree thats a fatal mistake. I believe that one has to have outside interests or a hobby.
Your GM management going along with it is just silly. Just go into any dealership and tell them some terms which they don't agree with. More than likely your demands will not be met. You will be leaving in the same car you drove in. In any economic exchange both parties must agree that they will be better off and therefore its a bilateral situation. Demanding unilaterally that Iraq be a democracy didn't and won't work.
As I recall, the Bulls won 2 threepetes in the 90's (the NBA's greatest era). While a quick first step is vital to getting the defensive player back, you have to prove you can drive before getting respect. Otherwise you will get packed. No disrespect intended, but Payton is no Jordan, or for that matter he isn't even a Pippen. From those below Stockton is my pick of the litter.
Karl Malone. Charles Barkley. John Stockton. Gary Payton. Patrick Ewing. Alonzo Mourning.
Those aren't just the names of great players, those are the great players that never won a championship in the 90s for one reason - Michael Jeffery Jordan.
http://jordanrivas.newsvine.com/_news/2007/11/11/1082535-nbas-best-the-jordan-er- a
AIG, Sept. 17, 2008: $85 billion guaranteed by the Federal Reserve.
Bear Stearns, Mar. 16, 2008: $29 billion guaranteed by the Federal Reserve
MBIA, Dec. 10, 2007: $1 billion from private equity fund Warburg Pincus
UBS, Dec. 10, 2007: $11.5 billion from Singapore’s sovereign wealth fund, along with an unnamed Middle Eastern investor
E*Trade Financial, Nov. 29, 2007: $2.55 billion from Citadel Investment Group
Citigroup, Nov. 26, 2007: $7.5 billion from Abu Dhabi’s sovereign wealth fund
Countrywide Financial, Aug. 22, 2007: $2 billion from Bank of America
Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund, Aug. 13, 2007: $3 billion from Goldman Sachs and investors including C.V. Starr & Co. and Eli Broad
U.S. Domestic Airlines, September 2001: $15 billion from the U.S. government
Russia, 1998: $17 billion in loans from the International Monetary Fund
Long Term Capital Management, 1998: $3.6 billion from various Wall Street firms
Apple, August 1997: $150 million from rival Microsoft (beat Sony Walkman with an IPOD senseless)
Mexico, 1995: $50 billion in loans ($20 billion from the U.S. and more than $30 billion from the International Monetary Fund, Europe, private banks, and other trading partners)
Salomon Brothers, 1987: $700 million from Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway
Various U.S. Savings and Loans, 1986-1995: $124 billion from the FDIC
Continental Illinois, 1984: $1 billion in capital from the FDIC, which also guaranteed the bank’s $30 billion in uninsured deposits and assumed $3.5 billion of the company’s debt
Chrysler, January 1980: $1.5 billion in loans from the U.S. government
City of New York, 1975: $150 million from the New York City Teachers’ Union plus refinancing $3 billion of its debt
Lockheed Aircraft, 1971: $250 million in loan guarantees from Congress
New York City Trusts, 1907: $50 million ($30 million from John Pierpont Morgan, along with other bankers and $25 million from the U.S. Treasury)
So whats Apples market share of the MP3 player market?
As head of one of the nation’s most powerful unions, Gettelfinger doesn’t earn nearly as much as Detroit’s top CEOs. GM’s Rick Wagoner, for example, made more than $14 million last year. But Gettelfinger’s total compensation of nearly $160,000 annually far exceeds the U.S. median gross family income of $61,500 and puts him among the top five percent of all tax filers, according to U.S. Census Bureau and IRS data.
And the UAW is anything but poor, with net assets reportedly worth an estimated $1.23 billion. UAW membership has been declining for years, as it has for most major unions, but annual income from member dues, interest and other revenues exceeded $300 million in 2006.
Lets seperate the winners from the losers please.
The Walter and May Reuther Family Education Center
The course is open to all UAW members and retirees, as well as the public on a space-available basis.
A fervent naturalist, Reuther personally tagged nearly every tree on the property. Not one was taken down without his permission.
http://www.blacklakegolf.com/family-education-center-24/
The UAW lost $23 million on it in the past five years. I wouldn't want my union dues going to pay for that. But I don't golf. :P
Lets see if I'm getting this right? They used your money to build that? Then you can use it?
If I'm a Ford shareholder, I don't see a lot of benefit for all the exec perks they get either. Something like the Henry Ford Museum is cool, but that's not supported by the shareholders. I doubt that Mulally went to Ford because they bought him a country club membership.
It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund.
I did not see the AMA begging for money from the US government. So what is your point about them? Are you saying that the UAW has never protected a member that should have been fired?
but annual income from member dues, interest and other revenues exceeded $300 million in 2006. Lets seperate the winners from the losers please.
Good idea. What is their current condition? Did they generate big profits this year? Too bad they have driven the Big 3 onto the verge of bankruptcy.
Lets see if I'm getting this right? They used your money to build that?
Kind of a long story. The governor told the Teamsters they could not invest anymore into the state as they were gaining too much control. So they went out in the desert near Palm Springs and bought a huge tract of land. They then developed it as an investment. It has netted the Pension Fund approximately $450 million. Never was designed as a playground for the Union members.
The golf course was added later on. Its a money maker by fact that its a top course.
It is funded from interest on the UAW strike fund.
Because it is funded from the strike fund interest it is not real money lost? A $23 million loss does not sound like a money making golf course to me. Most year round golf courses lose money in this country. They are a tax shelter for rich people. If the UAW is rich enough to own a golf course. Why are we bailing them out.
That $23 million would go a long ways re-training the 1000s of UAW workers that lost jobs this month alone. Those UAW jobs are gone forever. Those people will need to learn new skills. It is the UAW's responsibility, not GM's or the US tax payer's responsibility. Good to see you have your priorities in line.
Lobby's and special interest cost the consumer more. Just as when the govt pays farmers to not grow and or to grow certain crops. We pay at the store. Supply of any certain service or item is rationed by price. So therefore, less people in the medical profession means, higher cost at doctors office. You certainly don't think that these big lobbies spend millions on public relations? Giant pharmaceuticals go to Washington to protect their members special interest. Hence, when you go to the drug store you pay more than if they were absent in a capitalist system. I say let the markets decide and put an end to all these groups who seek to enrich their members. Begging/bribing they are. Implicitly or explicitly they seek special treatment outside the supply and demand structure. At the least you must consider Medicare and Medicaid money taxpayer funds. These people are not stupid and they are getting their moneys worth and then more.
Such is a day in the life of one of 17,800 registered Washington lobbyists upon whom interest groups spent $1.56 billion last year to sway Congress and the executive branch — numbers that are grossly understated due to the narrow definition of "registered lobbyist," says Jeffrey Birnbaum, author of The Lobbyists: How Influence Peddlers Get Their Way in Washington.
An estimated 40 percent of those 17,800 lobbyists promote health care agendas, according to James Albertine, president of the Alexandria, Va.-based American League of Lobbyists. To put it another way, there are 13 health care lobbyists for each of the 535 members of Congress. Among their most passionate causes this year are Medicare reimbursements and tort reform.
Hundreds of medical groups have a lobbying presence in Washington. The AMA — the third-largest lobbying group (based on expenditures) — spent about $17 million in 2000, the latest year for which figures are available.
Collectively, health care groups spent $209 million in 2000 to gain passage of bills that benefit their members or to sideline legislation that might harm them. That places health care interests third in lobbying expenditures, behind power brokers for finance, insurance, and real estate, who spent $229 million, and manufacturers and retailers, who invested $224 million in their work.
http://www.managedcaremag.com/archives/0208/0208.lobbying.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502351.- html
Because it is funded from the strike fund interest it is not real money lost?
Its absolutely real money and belongs to the membership. It has nothing to do with the Big Three funds and or anyone else's funds. The UAW membership elects on how to spend their money and not FAUX NEWS. Certainly you don't let the Teamsters tell you how to spend your money. Above and beyond my union dues, I have elected to fund CAP within the UAW to represent my interests in Washington. I did so of self interest and of my own free will. The AIG scandal will go down in history of how a few high level executives enjoying the spoils of taxpayer funding and the UAW rank and file membership has equal access to their resort paid by UAW money.
You continue to deflect from the issue here. Was spending money on a golf course and resort beneficial to all UAW employees? I think NOT. When that project was started the UAW was a strong, wealthy, vibrant Union. Now it is a weak remnant of days gone by. Yet they hang on to the past and waste the member's money to support an entity that probably less than 10% can afford to use. Not to mention the 1000s that have lost their jobs and cannot afford the gas to even get to THEIR fancy golf course and resort. Or are you saying UAW members get free green fees and lodging in the hotel along with free meals for their $23 million lost? It has nothing to do with AIG or the AMA. It has to do with the members and how their money is spent. Do they get to vote on keeping this money losing operation?
We as Teamsters were given a chance to express our dissatisfaction with a rec center and hospital that was losing money. And we sold it before it drained our finances. I keep forgetting the UAW leadership only look out for themselves.
Retraining? College at 40? There are workers at GM working in maintenance and production with master's degrees. Where do you propose to employ hundreds of thousands of retrained or college educated workers at a living wage, when the majority of the ones being graduated today are not finding work?
In the future, history will show, not protecting U.S. manufacturing and jobs by whatever means necessary, tariffs, protectionism....... will be the reason the golden goose died.
Being jealous or moaning about the UAW or their workers pay, benefits or workload, is not only foolish, it is a misconception. What you see on tv are usually assembly plants, clean, fairly quiet. Go into a fabricating plant or aluminum casting facility, most people would run out of there and never go back. Most UAW workers earn their paychecks and benefits and suffer shortened lives because of their jobs.
UAW members have given concessions in every contract of one type or another for about 20 years, the UAW leadership doesn't want to say that because they always tout the "new" contract as a gain, but ask any UAW member and they can tell you, the UAW has done plenty to help GM and the others over the last several years.
There are non producers at every level of business, usually brothers in laws, nephews, sisters, etc. Rarely are they fired. Maybe there should be a test, like they are proposing for teachers at all levels of business to help weed out the workers that deserve to be fired in all companies? Of course, who would make that decision? I am sure, neither you or I would lose our jobs? Oh, wait, maybe that is why the unions still exist and neet to? It keeps management from hiring more, brothers in laws, nephews, and sisters as dead weight that someone else has to carry at the expense of the real workers?
I've been there. My family has been there. Its a Family Education Center during the summer and a leadership education center the rest of the year. If you apply to go, you might get to go. We did. The staff was so wonderful and we came away so much more knowledgeable. I've been on some awesome vacations, this rates right up there. I loved it and know many others whom have came away with the same feelings and it energized us. Its our money, I would never think or dream of telling the Teamsters of what to do with their money. As long as they put it to good use, which they are doing, the membership has no issues.
Sorry, but I'm very blessed to be part of the UAW. They have been very instrumental in my providing for my family. Not just the private schools, cars, homes, and tangibles, but also the many brothers/sisters with which I hold special bonds. Their families as well and the union people of the future. I refuse to disrespect union people, even if there have been instances of abuse (which there were and will be). By far the greater good is being served and everyone, in leadership, that I know is there for the right reasons. Sorry, I can't speak for the Teamsters.
There too I was able to ask some questions. Why are you spending our money on NASCAR?
They replied, its a dollar per hour of over time given by the auto manufacturers for each hour of overtime worked. So as to discourage overtime and have UAW members at home with their families. Quality family time, a family values agenda by the UAW.
I'm surprised that Goldfinger didn't offer to mortgage the golf resort to help out the automakers. After all, that loan money is very critical to the D3. Everybody should sacrifice, right?
Show me the statistics where a *majority* of college graduates are not finding work.
A good friend of mine was here over the holidays. He was a VP at a major bank. He has has to lay off 16 people under him. The price at the pump has also discouraged the energy companies. There is going to be competition for fewer positions by experienced layed off workers and those coming out of college.
http://media.www.thelamron.com/media/storage/paper1150/news/2008/12/04/News/Rece- nt.Graduates.Run.Against.Struggling.Economy.Job.Market-3569858.shtml
That's the weakest outlook in six years and reflects a sharp recent downturn. Just two months ago, a survey by the same group projected a 6.1% increase in hiring. The August survey included 219 employers, 146 of whom responded to the new survey, conducted earlier this month. The big drop in hiring projections is "extremely unusual," says Edwin Koc, the association's director of strategic research.
http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/106007/For-'09-Grads,-Job-Prospects-Take-a-Dive
Like for non-ordinary people like AIG management, the state is now giving them so much. A tax payer bailout of AIG is surely necessary, but it has been justified so that ordinary people suffer less, not management. Its insulting that you would look to the poor for more welfare for the wealthy.
The bailout to AIG, etal, is a farce and an insult to every hard working American whose job may be in jeopardy, not to mention the millions of Americans whose assets and savings built over many years is being vaporized day by day. The perpetrators of the largest fraud in recorded history should be held accountable by the courts through indictments of misfeasance, malfeasance, and outright theft. And where is the Congress, many of whom are complicit in the meltdown of our economy? Obviously our elected representatives lack the courage to deal with the almost total destruction of millions of lives and property.
And yet the talk is merely the elimination of bonuses and/or salary increases. How many billions of dollars have been filched by greedy executives and boards of directors in the form of obscene salaries, bonuses, stock options and other creative forms of payout? The American public has been and continues to be raped and pillaged by greed. Will it never end?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. The 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, which sharply increased tariffs here & which prompted our trading partners to retaliate by increasing their tariffs, lengthened & deepened the Great Depression & may have been one of the causes of WWII.
Protectionism violates the oldest rule of the marketplace: the customer is always right. Instead, it punishes the customer by raising prices & reducing choice. It leads to mediocrity.
I'm confident that American automakers can produce exciting products that customers want to buy at prices they're willing to pay, but first they (certainly GM) must go through bankruptcy reorganization. That will give new leadership the chance to rebuild the business & shed excessive costs.
Without bankruptcy, there can be no rebirth.
Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million. Still a lot of money but a bit less than $14 million. Of course if the stock goes up to $100 he will be sitting pretty.
Because of a suggestion that the UAW mortgage their resort to help the D3 somehow now that's having the poor subsidize the wealthy? What a stretch. Calm down, that's not what I said and was not the intent of the post.
The bailout to AIG, etal, is a farce and an insult to every hard working American whose job may be in jeopardy, not to mention the millions of Americans whose assets and savings built over many years is being vaporized day by day. The perpetrators of the largest fraud in recorded history should be held accountable by the courts through indictments of misfeasance, malfeasance, and outright theft. And where is the Congress, many of whom are complicit in the meltdown of our economy? Obviously our elected representatives lack the courage to deal with the almost total destruction of millions of lives and property.
And yet the talk is merely the elimination of bonuses and/or salary increases. How many billions of dollars have been filched by greedy executives and boards of directors in the form of obscene salaries, bonuses, stock options and other creative forms of payout? The American public has been and continues to be raped and pillaged by greed. Will it never end?
No argument there. Glad we agree that all bailouts are an insult.
One point of view would argue that while the financial sector is the *grease* that lubricates our entire economy, other companies such as the D3 are just various sectors that are less fundamental to the economy operating. Circuit City, Mervyn's, Linen's N Things, even GM can go bankrupt -- but the grease is still needed for the ENTIRE economy to run. Not sure I believe the argument but it's not apples to apples with the D3.
Not sure how the other compensation is arrived at, but this article from March would indicate well over $2M even without the stock options. Would like to see the details on that. Note that in 2007 GM had a record $39B loss.
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N) Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.
The GM compensation committee cited significant progress over the past few years in reducing the automaker's health care cost burden, increasing growth internationally and improvements in its cars and trucks in the 2007 awards to executives.
Wagoner's compensation rose from about $9.57 million in 2006. The figure was arrived at based on Wagoner's salary, all other compensation and the basis of annual grants.
GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.
GM, which reported a record $39 billion net loss in 2007, released the figures in a proxy statement on Friday afternoon that was filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million. Take out the worthless stock options and look at what he actually got and will only get for 2007 it comes out to under $2 million.
I re-trained in the Allied Healthcare field. It has not been an easy road but it is going great for my wife and I now. She is working as a Cook at the same small hospital I work as a Certified Respiratory Therapist. Simple point to make: there is always a need for Respiratory Therapists and Nurses. The older RT's and Nurses are always retiring.
It is good work, inside and usually clean(the pt.'s can let out some obnoxious smells and liquids that I won't spill out at this time)and full-time hours are there. You do have tests upon tests to pass and then state and national certification. Continuing education is always a requirement, too. But there are some fine schools out there and, what I'd like someone reading in here to comment on, there's usually Fed.monies to loan out to people to get this training.
The system needs more workers and if there is a will there is a way to get re-trained. These types of college grads will find work out there, nationally. Wherever they want to go.
This is not a field that is tied to the Puget Sound area. There's work on the beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington state. There's work all over Michigan!
There's work all over Florida! Idaho! Montana! Wyoming!
Go get it!
Gary Payton is my pick alongside Michael Jordan as the two best guards in NBA hx. The '96 Finals went to da Bulls, because of Michael. But GP, with his doggedly persistent defense+a dynamite talent for picking up steals(hence his nickname 'The Glove')and constantly driving successfully to the hoop(and hitting beautiful long jumpers)has me put Gary at the Top, with MJ. Enjoy your NBA season and a bucketful of great NFL games today, for that matter.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Not sure how the other compensation is arrived at, but this article from March would indicate well over $2M even without the stock options. Would like to see the details on that.
GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.
OK it looks per your quote he took home a $1.6 million paycheck. and some non-equity incentive compensation for a total of a possible $3.2 million and then the $700k in other. Add it up and you get $3.9 million possible. Sure would like to see the $700 k broken down. But it is still a long way from the $14 million people like to quote.
From the GM restructuring plan presented to Congress.
A.7 GM Executive Compensation
o No long term incentive pay out 2004 through 2008
o All stock options 1999-2008 underwater
In addition, CEO/Chairman, COO/President and Vice Chairman
o Salaries reduced as much as 50% from 2006 to 2007
o CEO has or will forfeit 330,000 options in 2008 and 2009
Other
o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006
o 401k matching contribution eliminated in 2008
o Post-65 healthcare benefits eliminated for all salaried employees, including executives
As a result of these pay practices, as indicated in the table below, the actual compensation received compared to the Proxy reported compensation shows that the CEO and COO have actually earned far less than what is publicly reported.
2007
Actual Compensation Received
Proxy Total Compensation
G.R. Wagoner, Jr.
actual $1.8 M
reported $14.4 M
I guess you've never heard of a guy named Cousy.
The $700K might be things like life ins, health ins, private jet travel for personal reasons (based upon a company I recently worked for, the CEO was given unlimited personal private jet travel but all the travel was added to his compensation at the end of the year. It's a great perk but still has to be listed as income).
Agreed that underwater options are worthless, but they do have the potential to be worth many times salary if stock price increases.
Not sure what or how much is accrual rate on Supplemental Retirement Plan - some sort of funding of a retirement account that is not actual salary but may be substantial? The links don't quantify this.
In any event, Wagoner clearly has made some progress and it's not an easy situation. But he presided over many poor strategic decisions and did not have the company prepared well for the next inevitable business cycle, which was due to come. If he was losing money in good years it was bound to be bad. Also as you know I question the product decisions - not the CTS and Malibu, but more the Hummers, the Volt, the Camaro, and particularly the lack of 1-2 competitive world-class small cars. The entry level vehicles, even if not profitable, are the keys to the next generation of buyers and their brand loyalty. Too important to leave with the Cavalier or Cobalt.
A bandwagon jumper? I've always been a Bears/Cubs/Bama/Longhorn fan.
After Joe Montana left the 49ers I lost pretty much all interest in the NFL. I do like the Longhorns and rooted for them when they last won the championship 2-3 years ago. I did not like Landry with the Cowboys. I do feel they gave him a raw deal. So it was a double dislike of the Dallas cowboy management. Kind of hard to get too excited when you don't even have a TV to watch. I spend more than enough time in front of this computer debating the UAW.
There many kids, who change majors in their first year. Most likely due to the demands of math or science classes. These often go into the business and or some liberal arts. I'm aware of the decline in science, engineering, and technology students.
While the center believes that most December business grads will be in good shape, it's the upcoming seniors they're thinking of.
"It's the May grads that I'm worried about and the May of 2010 grads that I think will really get hit hard by what's happening in the economy," said Schroeder.
http://www.channel3000.com/education/18276801/detail.html
Fourth-year Ashwin Nirmalkumar already knows where he will be working next year. After interning as a summer analyst at Merrill Lynch, he was offered a full-time position for 2009 as an investor banking analyst, complete with benefits and a competitive salary.
His greatest fear is that his offer may not stand.
http://dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2008/oct/02/students-job-prospects-finance-negat- ively-affected/
“It’s a very predictable and reliable pattern,” said Stacey Kole, deputy dean for the full-time M.B.A. program at the University of Chicago’s Graduate School of Business. “When there’s a go-go economy, fewer people decide to go back to school. When things go south, the opportunity cost of leaving work is lower.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/business/07SCHOOL.html
My computer is on my TV, so is my music, and video games too. I can flip back and forth and even use the phone sometimes. If it wasn't for eating, work, and the gym.......I'd never leave the media room
Unfortunately, the business schools are teaching the no value added concept. So where do you think these folks in banks and Wall Street add value? I'm certain that in the future more business will be done online. Realtors, car sales, banking/investment, the mail, news papers and many other industries will evolve to be more efficient.
Sound financial advise is one thing. The growth in exchange traded funds also presents a challenge for the fund industry. These non-traditional funds, with names like SPDRs, WEBs and DIAMONDS, have obtained relief from the commission to facilitate secondary market trading in their shares. These funds have enjoyed tremendous growth. Broker increasingly are offering brokerage accounts with asset-based fees or use other alternative pricing structures, and are developing products that compete with, and are alternatives to, mutual funds. These asset-based pricing structures now are highly competitive with the costs of mutual funds.
Thanks to technology, which has provided better software and portfolio management systems, investment managers who in the past would take institutional accounts with a minimum of $5 million or higher, are more willing to take much smaller accounts.
Its all rather easy and the first $100,000 is what I see as anyones first hurdle. If done soon enough, one is more than not likely to become wealthy. If I can do it, so can anyone else. Knowing the rule of 72 and having a soundly grounded knowledge of economics its a sure thing. While some discuss annuities, I'm of the mind of perpetuities, which will pass from generation to generation.
maybe you should visit some time. you will find out it has a lot to offer, besides the UAW.
Yeah one would be crazy to exercise the stock options. However, you have to know more about the Golden Parachute. They have deferred compensations as to reduce taxes. So therefore, he will be getting a steady stream of income for years to come. Many highly compensated folks in Hollywood and sports superstars do this. More or less a untaxable trust fund, with many more implications. An irrevocable grantor trust but subjects the trust assets to claims by the employer’s creditors; a taxable trust, which is protected from the employer’s creditors but taxes are paid on the income a the time the deferred contributions are made; and, bonds which allow the employer to coordinate the retirement with the maturity dates of the bonds. Then some might opt for some type of whole life with a present cash value. Or even all of the above. Arod is a good example, the Texas Rangers are still paying him. Years after going to New York.
Thank you!
This puts things in a better perspective.
Kip
The Big 3 do produce many attractive vehicles that the American public was buying in huge numbers, GM didn't stay the biggest seller for so long by accident. No one that I have heard of predicted gasoline to jump almost two dollars in one year. Some people don't understand the reason the Big 3, as well as the imports were making the large SUVs and pickup trucks, is, that is what the American public was buying and they were very profitable. It would have been irresponsible not to offer them. The Big 3 also has many smaller, very fuel efficient vehicles that are highly rated, some higher than their comparable import counterparts and priced less or equal. Sadly, the American public doesn't seem to want to support American companies, even though they often say they wish they could buy more American products.
Our economy seems to be based on Micky Ds, health care and paper. One has to wonder, where the money is going to come from, when the rest of our jobs, that produce an actual product are gone?
If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? Instead of lowering our standard of living, perhaps we should hope to raise everyone's standard to a higher level?
My wife gets opportunities for deferred comp about every 4 years and it's incredible the benefits she gets out of it. I think many don't understand how it works, but basically all deferred compensation does is allow the employee to defer and invest compensation for a later date. Probably really nice for a CEO that will be making millions to defer some of that to a date were he will no longer be CEO and possibly pay less tax on that money if he/she has a lower tax bracket when deferred comp is returned.
With my wife's plan, I don't really see it saving us on tax liability. She gets to elect an amount of her salary to defer every 4 years. Sure, we don't pay tax on the deferred salary the year it's deferred, but it will be taxable when the deferred salary is returned. Her plan has an 8 year deferment and provides 15 years of annuity payments based on amount deferred and guaranteed ROR beginning at age 65. Next month she gets a check from her first deferment from 8 years ago. That will be taxable income for '09 unless I put it in a different tax deferment vehicle. The beauty of that deferment is the funds deferred have a 13% guaranteed ROR.
Yes, it's that simple. Before it was only a guy in Ohio or Michigan that could piece together a decent car frame and not to mention that it would take a fortune to transport so many of those cars back to America, where they were sold. Today high schools in Asia or East Europe teach better than those in Ohio and transportation got also cheap - not to mention those were also local markets for the products. So, a guy in Manilla or Budapest can do it as well as guy in Ohio for less. Those jobs were doomed long before you could write your protest manifesto. What stays? Jobs that no one else can do, like highly specialized manufacturing at competitive price.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I have several times. My step father's family are in the Midland area, and mostly retired from Dow Chemical. My folks lived in Gaylord for a time and I visited them. It has some pretty areas. That is why I said it would make a nice National Park. As far as industry, it will die a slow agonizing death. Partly as a result of the working class feeling they are entitled to a given wage no matter if the company makes money or not. Add to that the enviro whacko groups that are trying their best to destroy any and ALL industry. You tried to get a permit to build a factory lately? Many states it is just about impossible. The UAW has fought against high tech solutions to auto making. That is the main reason Ford built their state of the art factory in Brazil instead of the USA.
For those that want to stay in Michigan. My advice get into health care or get a license to drive a tour bus. Not sure how many Indian Casinos are in Michigan. Dealing black jack is also a good paying job. My sis makes about $90k per year plus benefits working at an Indian casino. No Unions. And no protection if you don't get along with management. Sovereign nation, they don't tolerate whiners.
If tariffs don't work, why did we institute tariffs on incoming steel a few years back to try and save our domestic steel industry? Instead of lowering our standard of living, perhaps we should hope to raise everyone's standard to a higher level?
America doesn't allow cartels, dumping of product (steel), and other price support measures. However, they can be used as tools/weapons at times when other nations don't abide by the no government interference abstract. One could argue that Japan by its nature (an island with few natural resources) has to get some kind of market advantage.
Our economy seems to be based on Micky Ds, health care and paper.
The case in point that special interest have gone to Washington with millions to protect/better their industry/profession is self evident with the health care. Do they as an industry really care about the nations well being? Or are they wanting to get special treatment?
Outsourcing our good paying jobs so we can spend a few dollars less on things imported has depleted our purchasing power across the board. If we were to add equal tariffs to items coming into our country like other countries charge, it would level the playing field a bit. It would still be hard for us to compete with prison or child labor.
The weak dollar as oppose to other currencies should make American made goods more attractive/appealing overseas. Hence, exports should fuel more manufacturing jobs here. This is the only good news in this downturn, we can look forward to. We know that the nations losing these jobs will be thinking along the "keep those jobs lines".
Steel (historically) was an excellent example of dumping, and China is protecting it steel industry in this day and age. OPEC is trying to control supply and therefore price of oil. The AMA and others are keeping medical cost high. They should not cheat the consumer. They behave like spoiled little brats.
So why aren't these issues being dealt with by our govt? Could it be that they are the ones being courted by special interest?