Thanks for the quick response. I will consider the things you mentioned. You're right, I am in love - and thanks for the second opinion. I'll get a third and fourth before I dive-in.
My story is short, sad and lustful + dangerous... Dad owned a '76 XJ6 where my memories are of climbing out the windows, if we were lucky to get them stuck open - if not climbing into the front seat and out the 1 working door. Electrics, you know. In 1974 saw an XK-120 and the dastardly bugger who owned it let a 10 yr old (me) have a ride. I lost all hope then. I now have the opportunity, that is: a lease car expiring in 3 months, a 15 mile round trip commute, and some money to fulfill the dream. I have a 2yr daughter so an the XK is out for the moment. 4 drs is a start and right on schedule - just 3 months ago in Florida mine eyes catch sight of a cream MKII. That was it. My Dad thinks I am mad, my wife has already given up, and I risk unrefutible genetic damage to my daughter who will, in 30 years, have to have one. Any one got a MK II or can chat about them, or direct me to info. I've just received the Nigel books but want to chat to fellow lost souls. Appreciated, lost in lust.
Well, I've owned one and know something about them. Actually, it's one of the very few (maybe the only) mass-produced 4-door sedan that's actually a hot collectible right now.
The trick is to get the right car, with the right equipment, and that means, absolutely and without any argument, a 4-speed manual transmission and left hand drive....a RHD automatic would neither appreciate here in the US nor attract any buyers.
If you are going to struggle with the Mk II, you might as well have the wire wheels, too..but I personally think they are troublesome and so disk wheels is fine with me (you would pay less for a disk wheel car anyway).
This is not a car you want to "fix up", so be prepared to pay a solid price for one, around $15K-20K on up.
I think they are fabulous looking, and fun to drive (they are considered "gangster" cars in England, because that's how they were depicted in period movies, and so they are not prestige cars in most Brits eyes--which is all to the good. Jaguar's tradition is racing and a great sporting car for the middle class, not this playtoy of the rich thing they've gotten into the last 20 years).
I'm getting crazy thoughts in my head about fixing this car and dropping in a new engine. (It's probably a good thing I don't have the $500 to bid!) But what is a car like this worth, and can it be reasonably fixed?
Well, let's do the math and see what we come up with.
Being an S, it is not a MkII, but really a half and half car, part 3.8 Mark II and part Mark X. So it deviates from the classic Mark II styling, and many collectors do not find the back end of the Mark X-like design as attractive.
That being said, I'd guess a very nice '67 S could bring in realistic dollars around $18,000...in condition described as "local show quality".
So, from $18,000 we deduct the price of a rebuilt engine and the labor. Also we have serious rust repair on this car (if I can see it in a photo, that ain't good), that in the UK is much more easily dealt with than in the US....we don't have the skills and experience for rust repair like the Brits do. Then of course the paint has to come down to bare metal, as it is obvious from the photos that some bad repaint occurred.
The description of the interior being in "good condition" rather surprised me, as you can see from the photos that the leather is badly deteriorated. It has shrunk so much it has pulled back from all the seams. So let's see here.
rebuilt engine $8,000 rust repair $3,500 good repaint $3,500-5,000 leatherwork $3,000-4,000 wood, mechanicals, etc. ----???
Cost of decent but not superior restoration...about $20,000
So having it "done" is obviously out of the question.
On the Cheap?
used or patched up engine, installed yourself---$2,500-$3,000 rust repair with bondo or figerglass --(hard to say) $1,500 mediocre quickie paintjob without stripping (won't last) $1,500 sheepskin covers for the ripped leath -- $350 miscellaneous mechanicals --$1,000-$2,000
Total for cheapie ---about $8,000 + donated labor Value of cheapie when done ---about $3,500-5,000 depending
Looks like a sure loser to me. I'd say about $1,000 is the true market value of the car. This is basically a parts car IMO.
Also, I find the description less than candid. Obviously there is more rust than the front fenders, and obviously the paint is not original.
Well, yeah, but I do mean really, really nice. I'm not saying it would be easy to get that, but certainly possible. The market is agreeable to that number, presuming a good economy and the right venue for the car....good ads, good presentation, good documents, etc.
1st - Mr Shiftright, thanks for the input. The 3.8 with O/D comes up a lot on the Jag websites, and I am intreged with the manual. But I have not seen one, only automatics. Until I moved stateside, I never drove automatic and prefer stick. Also, your $$ are higher than I expected, but right in line with what I am seeing (Sidebar - but I look at the stream on the fellow after the S type. Ouch, it pains me to see such abused beauty. Following your restoration $$, done well would put the car @ 22-25$K). Another question - where can I get an idea on cost/value ratios for these cars? I,ve a "posh" car dealer a tad down the road and I saw a Mk I and a Mk II in the window. Could be an expensive month... and I need to find price references to start negotiations.
But really, you have to take cars like this one at a time, and evaluate each one...there can be enormous price differences based on the quality of the car and the equipment. For instance, a right hand drive model would be an easy 30-50% discount off book values. Automatic and disk wheels are another minus, and of course a V-8 engine installed from a Chevy renders the car pretty worthless as a collectible.
Well, getting an itch for a new car, and always loving jags, I am thinking of getting one as a second car. Right now I have a toyota corolla and am going to keep that. It only has 150K on it and I think its probably good for 100K more. So, I was thinking of getting a jag that I have always wanted. Reading the 100-200 a month to maintain seems a little high for me, so I am not sure. Will it alway be that high even if you only drive the car on weekeds about 500 miles a month total? Here's another thought. I found a 82 XJS for sale here. Its what I think someone refered to a "[non-permissible content removed]" car. It has the chevy 350 in it. They guy *seems* to have done a good job with it. He did the work himself, as this has been his "project" car for the last several years. He put the engine in it about 1.5 years ago. The engine runs well, but there are lots of little things wrong with it. First, each door has somethign wrong - the drivers can't be opened from the outside. Said some bar was just broken from the handle. The passengers door won't latch at all. I am not sure exactly what is wrong with that. The leather is ripped a little, but not too bad. There is some rust in the back wheel wells and on the bottom of the trunk. Also, the motor for the wipers is bad. Other than that, I think everything else is ok. New tires, new brakes, rotors, rear end work. Could use a new paint job. Also, the AC needs to be charged on the engine. He is asking 3K for it but told me he would take 2200 just cause he wants to sell it. He said he had 3K invested just in engine and tranny. Any ideas on how much you think it would cost to get this fixed? And, becasue it does have the chevy engine, would it be cheaper *more reliable?* to get fixed than the V12? Just wondering too, how much would you think the V12 would cost to maintain a month, with it being driven 500 miles or so a month. There's a 89 for sale with the V12 and 85K miles. Does either one of those sound like a much better deal than the other??
Hmmm...well, if it were me, I wouldn't bite on either of these cars for different reasons. The older Xj with the Chevy engine sounds like a rat, really....I mean, what can you make out of a car like this....it sounds tired, tired, tired to me.
The '89 is a better proposition in some ways but the 12 cylinder engine is very maintenance demanding, so you'd need to have the car gone over with a fine tooth comb before you purchased it. I'd much rather advise you toward a mid-80s XJ6....these can be pretty good cars if you find a nice one and keep it up.
Comments
Dad owned a '76 XJ6 where my memories are of climbing out the windows, if we were lucky to get them stuck open - if not climbing into the front seat and out the 1 working door. Electrics, you know.
In 1974 saw an XK-120 and the dastardly bugger who owned it let a 10 yr old (me) have a ride. I lost all hope then. I now have the opportunity, that is: a lease car expiring in 3 months, a 15 mile round trip commute, and some money to fulfill the dream. I have a 2yr daughter so an the XK is out for the moment. 4 drs is a start and right on schedule - just 3 months ago in Florida mine eyes catch sight of a cream MKII. That was it.
My Dad thinks I am mad, my wife has already given up, and I risk unrefutible genetic damage to my daughter who will, in 30 years, have to have one.
Any one got a MK II or can chat about them, or direct me to info. I've just received the Nigel books but want to chat to fellow lost souls.
Appreciated, lost in lust.
The trick is to get the right car, with the right equipment, and that means, absolutely and without any argument, a 4-speed manual transmission and left hand drive....a RHD automatic would neither appreciate here in the US nor attract any buyers.
If you are going to struggle with the Mk II, you might as well have the wire wheels, too..but I personally think they are troublesome and so disk wheels is fine with me (you would pay less for a disk wheel car anyway).
This is not a car you want to "fix up", so be prepared to pay a solid price for one, around $15K-20K on up.
I think they are fabulous looking, and fun to drive (they are considered "gangster" cars in England, because that's how they were depicted in period movies, and so they are not prestige cars in most Brits eyes--which is all to the good. Jaguar's tradition is racing and a great sporting car for the middle class, not this playtoy of the rich thing they've gotten into the last 20 years).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=582935992
I'm getting crazy thoughts in my head about fixing this car and dropping in a new engine. (It's probably a good thing I don't have the $500 to bid!) But what is a car like this worth, and can it be reasonably fixed?
Being an S, it is not a MkII, but really a half and half car, part 3.8 Mark II and part Mark X. So it deviates from the classic Mark II styling, and many collectors do not find the back end of the Mark X-like design as attractive.
That being said, I'd guess a very nice '67 S could bring in realistic dollars around $18,000...in condition described as "local show quality".
So, from $18,000 we deduct the price of a rebuilt engine and the labor. Also we have serious rust repair on this car (if I can see it in a photo, that ain't good), that in the UK is much more easily dealt with than in the US....we don't have the skills and experience for rust repair like the Brits do. Then of course the paint has to come down to bare metal, as it is obvious from the photos that some bad repaint occurred.
The description of the interior being in "good condition" rather surprised me, as you can see from the photos that the leather is badly deteriorated. It has shrunk so much it has pulled back from all the seams. So let's see here.
rebuilt engine $8,000
rust repair $3,500
good repaint $3,500-5,000
leatherwork $3,000-4,000
wood, mechanicals, etc. ----???
Cost of decent but not superior restoration...about $20,000
So having it "done" is obviously out of the question.
On the Cheap?
used or patched up engine, installed yourself---$2,500-$3,000
rust repair with bondo or figerglass --(hard to say) $1,500
mediocre quickie paintjob without stripping (won't last) $1,500
sheepskin covers for the ripped leath -- $350
miscellaneous mechanicals --$1,000-$2,000
Total for cheapie ---about $8,000 + donated labor
Value of cheapie when done ---about $3,500-5,000 depending
Looks like a sure loser to me. I'd say about $1,000 is the true market value of the car. This is basically a parts car IMO.
Also, I find the description less than candid. Obviously there is more rust than the front fenders, and obviously the paint is not original.
Until I moved stateside, I never drove automatic and prefer stick. Also, your $$ are higher than I expected, but right in line with what I am seeing (Sidebar - but I look at the stream on the fellow after the S type. Ouch, it pains me to see such abused beauty. Following your restoration $$, done well would put the car @ 22-25$K).
Another question - where can I get an idea on cost/value ratios for these cars? I,ve a "posh" car dealer a tad down the road and I saw a Mk I and a Mk II in the window. Could be an expensive month... and I need to find price references to start negotiations.
But really, you have to take cars like this one at a time, and evaluate each one...there can be enormous price differences based on the quality of the car and the equipment. For instance, a right hand drive model would be an easy 30-50% discount off book values. Automatic and disk wheels are another minus, and of course a V-8 engine installed from a Chevy renders the car pretty worthless as a collectible.
The '89 is a better proposition in some ways but the 12 cylinder engine is very maintenance demanding, so you'd need to have the car gone over with a fine tooth comb before you purchased it. I'd much rather advise you toward a mid-80s XJ6....these can be pretty good cars if you find a nice one and keep it up.