Maxima 5-speed Problems

opimax

AS Ricky Ricardo would say "aye aye ae, we have a problem here, Lucy(Nissan).......

joenissan

FINALLY !!! We've livened up the 5 spd posts !!! LOL

Joe

maximizd

His car, nor my car, exhibit the fuel cut phenomenon to the extent that others speak of. I will also say that there are other cars out there that do not behave as our cars do, and this is an issue that Nissan is failing to address.

Now Warren, please get a car wash already! lol

warrenul

Rich - Hey, and you thought the car was dirty after you saw it two months ago? After a nearly a year, I got around to washing the thing last week!

I surly did forget how it looked when I picked her up last December, but, boy does it really shine now. I even think I'll wax it tomorrow. Well, at least before it snows (I hope).

maximizd

I know there was a Super Black Maxima under there somewhere! lol!

joenissan

I can't keep this room goin' all by myself !! LOL

Joe

marc37

I have a 2000 Maxima GXE 5-Speed with only 1500 miles on it. I have to really concentrate to get a smooth first gear start, and second gear has the wiplash effect. Has anyone else noticed this problem?

jlcpgord

Everyone, my 2000 SE will ping and lose power when I put the pedal down. It doesn't happen all of the time or when I'm just driving it hard (for example, 5th gear 70 mph, hit the gas and no power and pinging). I only put 92 octane Chevron or Texaco gas in it. I've also lost 5 MPG...

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME? My dealer said they couldn't replicate the problem (meanwhile the odometer didn't move from my dropping it off to picking up...). Thanks!

bigk200

Welcome to the 5-speed board. What you are experiencing is a symptom of the problem that all of us are complaining about. Nissan will not acknowledge that the problem is real and they will not fix it.

As you release the clutch and attempt to modulate the engine rpm's, you are inadvertantly backing down to the "closed throttle" position on the TPS. At "closed throttle", the computer is programmed to cut fuel to the engine. Nissan attempted to fix it by adding more of a longer delay prior to the "fuel cut", but it only made the car even less driveable in other ways.

Now you are stuck just like the rest of us.

To read all about it, I recommend that you read post #2 in this board. You can view it by clicking on "see all responses" or else scroll up 20 posts consecutively until you reach post #2.

joenissan

It sounds like a bad tank of gas to me. Double check that sound you've discribed as "pinging".....if you were to actually get a "pinging" while accelerating, the engine light would come on almost before you were able to hear it.

Joe

gladichecked

I'll have to remember to check my odometer if I ever have a problem and take it to the dealer. I guess the mechanic couldn't replicate the problem if he never drove the car.

ikehedges

My name is Ike. I have been reading these posts since I bought my 2000 Maxi in May.

I have seen much hardship/ problems/ outrageous emotion. But I have a success story.

I too have the problem of FUEL CUT. What a sh!!ter. But I think I have found something that the rest of you have only dreamed of...A dealer that is going to keep my Maxi for 2 days for tests and refinements!!!!!!!

These guys really want to see my car running per specs. (I think better than)

Anyway, I will let you know what the results are.

Wish me luck.

Ike

y2kse

Keep us posted!

Bruce...

bigk200

"Been there, done that." I wouldn't expect much of an improvement.

You might have 1 or 2 days of a honeymoon period when you get your car back, but after that, you will realize that it is no better.

Just my opinion of course. (I do hope it turns out well for you, but at this point, I am rather cynical towards Nissan.)

maximizd

The dealer may make adjustments to your car which may mask the problem, and in the long run you will wish that they had not even touched it! Good luck!

daniell

I wouldn't take my car to the dealer. They don't have a clue about this problem, and they can only make things worse. Personally - I am going to keep it as it is until either Nissan comes with a fix, I get used to it as it is, or get rid of it. The problem is, if you look at Edmund's trade in value for a '99 GXE 5 speed, it's about 11.5K if I remember well.

marc37

Thanks everyone for the input. I've watching the tach closely when doing the first second shifts. I've noticed if I shift into second with the revs about ~2000, I should get a pretty smooth shift. Same thing with going into third. I'm worried about excess clutch wear from feathering though. Good luck!

davedzny

I was sitting around the house bored today, so I decided to take the Max out and tinker around a little. First thing I did was retorque my lug nuts, as they were all overtightened. Lucky I see/feel no rotor damage. I then drove around for a while, and actually found a long and deserted road for me to play in 1st gear (not easy to find in NYC). Here's what I did:

I noticed that if you try to keep the car at 1500 RPM in 1st gear, it will pretty much stay put. However, if you raise the RPM's every so slightly to around 1550-1600, and keep constant pressure on the gas, the RPM's will keep on gradually increasing by themself. It will go all the way up to 2000 while driving. During this time, by keeping steady pressure, the "fuel cut" might happen by itself while rising to 2000 RPM, or it will almost always happen if you release the slightest pressure from the gas pedal at around 2000 RPM.

Since I believe 1500 RPM is the point when the IAC motor starts to kick in strong, this made sense to me as I definitely was holding steady pressure on the gas at 1550 RPM, and the car was still accelerating on its own. It has been pretty hard to pinpoint the exact moment when the fuel cut happens the strongest in 1st, and I think this might be an easy way to see how all of our cars act.

I am not sure how long you have to drive around in 1st gear until you see the problem occur, as sometimes the car behaves. If you drive around for about 5 minutes or so like this(not steadily @ 1550 rpm, just 5 minutes in total length between attempts), I am sure you will notice the fuel cut either by seing the RPM's drop by themself and/or by feeling the bucking. Please let me know your results if you decide to try this test.

BTW, now my freaking driver's seat is starting to squeak. I think one of the springs inside of it is failing. Strange since I am the only driver and am a skinny f*** weighing 135 lbs..... lol

Dave Z

y2kse

as finely as you have, Dave, but the bucking in my car is DEFINITELY present in 1st gear at around the rpm range you specify. I've been trying a new technique to overcome the problem with some success. And yes, it has to do with shifting into 2nd gear.

The engine is so well-balanced that it seems unwilling to lug at low rpm. As a result, I'm able to drive the vehicle in 2nd gear at or around idle rpm with seemingly no deleterious effect on the engine. So while it runs against the grain (I normally shift between 2800 and 3000 rpm), when I'm in rush hour traffic, I use 1st gear just long enough to get the vehicle moving and then shift immediately into 2nd gear.

I figure if use this technique long enough, it will become second nature over time. However, it does absolutely NOTHING for the rpm increase between shifts. That's something I think I'm just going to have to learn to live with.

Having said that, I'm still going to pursue my Zone Rep until he has a chance to drive my car and check out my fuel-cut condition for himself.

Bruce...

joenissan

The drop in RPM's from 2000 RPM will not happen while there is a load on the engine...only when unloaded, with clutch depressed. Just don't get up past 4k RPM and let off the gas....lol...you'll snap your neck !


Joe

robertr

y2kse - That can't be normal and has to be a problem. daniell stated he does not have this and neither does my car. You should not have to live with that in any car. It would drive me nuts, too.

daniell - I am in Toledo. Because you don't have the rpm increase, I suspect your car drives the same as mine. But I would be interested in comparing my car with one alleged to have the fuel cut problem. Maybe we could meet somewhere between Toledo and Cinci if you are ever up towards Toledo. For my part, I get to Columbus a couple times a year.

joenissan - It sounds to me like posters are in one of three categories:
1) No perceived problem - the Max drives fine
2) Fuel-cut, but no rpm increase between shifts
3) Fuel-cut, AND/OR rpms increase between shifts
What do you make of this?

joenissan

Beats me. All I can figure is.....some people, instead of really driving their cars, sit and listen for any little noise, blemish etc. While others simply enjoy driving, and may not even notice anything out of the ordinary. My car doesn't make any noises, have any RPM problems...nor does it suffer from any so-called "fuel-cut" conditions. Others...LOL...Feel the need to do senseless tests like seeing if they can hold the engine at 2000 RPM, and if not......MUST BE A PROBLEM....lol...you're guess is a good as anyones.


Joe

davedzny

First off Joe, let me correct you on a few points:

The new test I devised shows that the RPM's will increase ON THEIR OWN without any input from the driver, since the gas pedal is staying depressed at a constant pressure, which means you do not want any extra acceleration. Also, there is load on the engine at this time since your foot is on the gas steadily which means you are actually injecting gas. The engine would be unloaded when you are completely off the gas such as in deceleration and shifting. I can also tell you that my snap on scanner clearly showed the engine was loaded at the time, but knowing that is just common sense if you have any idea of how an engine works.

The main thing to remember is that this test proves what Bigk200 has said all along. As a driver, you do not have 100% control over the throttle of this car. A car that accelerates on its own while you are holding steady pressure is not normal, nor is it normal for the rpm's to remain steady for 5-10 seconds when you release your foot off the gas pedal completely at cruising speeds instead of dropping immediately, which should happen naturally.

The fuel cut then kicks in since as a driver you keep trying to release the gas pedal to slow down the car (even though it doesn't want to slow down). Since you do not have much travel in the gas pedal to begin with, you end up releasing it all the way until you hit the closed throttle switch and then all of a sudden the engine decides to slow down instantaneously by cutting all fuel abruptly. I think this has been explained enough that anybody could understand it by now. Why don't you hook up the Consultant one day to your car and actually capture data of RPM, IAC, TPS, Closed Throttle Switch to see for yourself? I have seen the readings before my eyes, and believe it or not the engine is cutting fuel due to exactly what has been said here. Maybe you are not allowed near the Consultant in your shop. A tool in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing can be dangerous.

By the way, my test is not "senseless"; by saying that you seem to be placing yourself into that wonderful category of mechanics I used to call "parts changers" who have no idea on how to troubleshoot or diagnosis problems; they just keep changing parts till the car runs correctly.

For any car, and especially for one that costs this much money, it is the right of the owner to listen to and be aware of any problems such as performance, rattles, etc. and complain and want them repaired. We are just trying to inform people here of the truth behind problems they have with their 5 speed cars. If I turn my radio up, I hear no rattles. Does that mean my car is now fixed? There was an old joke where someone takes their car to be fixed for rattles and the mechanic's repair was to turn the radio up.

Being I have experience in automotive engineering and certifications in electronic engine controls, I like to try to help others who do experience a problem and want to venture further into seeing how they can go about testing to see if they are experiencing a similar problem. Nobody should sit back and settle for the excuse given that it is "normal" by Nissan. If you went to a doctor having a problem such as feeling numb in your arms for instance, and he said you were normal, you would second guess him.

Y2kse, it is ridiculous that you are forced to have to shift into second to drive around a car that does not operate properly. The whole reason of having a manual transmission is so you can decide when to shift, and not have to shift prematurely due to a problem with the car. I understand what you are saying, and sometimes I get in the mood to just throw it in 2nd. However, in heavy traffic you are sometimes forced to stay in 1st since you are constantly starting and stopping.

BTW, I have driven four other 5 speed cars and they all have had the RPM increase/hanging between shifts and the lack of deceleration when lifting off the gas at cruising speeds. Now that I have narrowed down a range when the "fuel cut" can be felt, I hope others will experiment and see if they can replicate the "fuel cut" for themselves.

To close, I have shared a lot of my own personal experiences and opinions with this board, and we are all free to argue/disagree with one another. I don't take anything said here personally, nor should anybody else. However, fact is fact and I have seen fact in fron of my eyes by looking at the data readings from the Consultant and actually having the knowledge to interpet them and understand what is happening exactly with the car.

The last thing I have to say is that I have not given up with my dealings with Nissan to fix this problem, and I can assure all that I will not stop until I have exhausted every avenue to get this car working properly for all. I do not care if this is a "one man battle" from here on between myself and Nissan. I wish all others who are happy with their cars good luck, and I wish I could share those same feelings.

Dave Z

bigk200

"parts changers"

That is very funny. Never heard it before!

bigk200

I have read all of your recent posts, and you are exactly correct in ALL of your observations.

Every single oberservation that you made is in exact correlation with my full explaination in Post #2 of this discussion board. The car will continue to accelerate with a steady foot because the idle control valve continues to allow more and more air into the engine. But because the throttle position is barely off of the "closed throttle" position, even the most slight release of the gas pedal will cause the "close throttle" "fuel-cut".

With an unloaded engine, it is virtually impossible to drive the car with rpms between 1500 and 2500 rpm. This range of 1000 rpm is what I would call "no mans land".

For those drivers who do not notice it, they are simply clueless. I've driven my car a short distance from the neighborhood bar after a beer or two (this is my confession for the day), and it actually seems to drive OK, but when all of my senses are sharp, I can tell that this car is seriously flawed. Maybe all of the other drivers who think their car is OK are actually driving drunk? Ha! Just a joke of course.

Nissan-USA is a terrible company. They are the ones who are the problem because they will not even admit that the problm is real so that Japan will get involved with a fix.

y2kse

I certainly haven't given up, nor do I intend to. And yes, it is too bad that I have to resort to shifting into 2nd or depressing the clutch prematurely in order to overcome a problem that, contrary to what some may say, does in fact exist.

I was speaking with David Burnette at Southpoint Nissan (http://southpointnissan.com/PARTS.htm). He sells Nissan parts at a discount to Maxima.org members. We were discussing the fuel-cut problem and he wondered if it only affected CA/NLEV-spec vehicles. I told him that you were in New York and he said yours is CA/NLEV-spec. I'm not sure where others live, but I wonder if that's a possibility.

Bruce...

bigk200

I live in Missouri. This problem is not unique to CA cars

y2kse

joenissan

The test I was refering to, was the "senseless" test of trying to hold the RPM's at 2000. That test is done while the engine in NOT loaded. if you knew anything about how an engine works, hopefully I don't need to explain that one to you. Try that same test in say....3rd gear. WHILE THE ENGINE IS UNDER LOAD. You'll notice you can easily keep it there.

Now...stop the drawn out kiddie whining and either learn to drive the car you bought or, sell it for something else. Geez....were you also the kid that used to get beat-up in school ? and ran to tattle ??...LOL.

I'm done with the 5 speed posts....too many crybabies who seem to know more about their cars than the ones who created them. (or think they do anyhow) Take the bus. I'll stick to the room where real people have real quirks such as squeaks and rattles, and who have real questions of ACTUAL problems.

LMAO...Touchy crew in here. I must have hit a nerve yet again.

Joe

adg44

I think that Joe doesn't exactly know how to get along with people. He's one of those typical Serivce reps who don't give a crap about people's problems with their cars. It's people like Joe that give service departments a bad name.

- Anthony

Persistance is the key to everything - Don't stop trying.

gladichecked

but...good riddance Joe. If you are a Nissan employee (and even if you aren't) and your attitude is in any way a representation of the attitude of Nissan, I can see why all the owners that post here are so frustrated. Joe, you alone are enough of a turn off to keep me from considering any Nissan.

bigk200

You sound just like all of the other Nissan employees I have talked to. No wonder my car is screwed up and Nissan won't fix it.

The fact that a steady 2000 rpm cannot be held on an unloaded engine is the whole point!

I challenge anyone to find a car built by any other company, domestic or otherwise, where an unloaded engine cannot be held at a steady 2000 rpm. Nissan is the only one.

davedzny

Seems like my comments caused JoeNissan to leave this board. I never intend for any of my posts to be taken personally or to cause arguments. On the other hand, I don't think that the loss of JoeNissan will do anything to this board except free it up to get back on the 5 speed problem topic. He never seemed to contribute anything worthwhile, and if he works for Nissan you would think he would have more knowledge and resources available to him. He might be a class "C" mechanic doing oil changes and tire rotations for all we know.

BTW Joe, if you are reading this, I was not beaten up in school. I was too busy receiving scholarships and being on the Dean's List numerous times while studying Automotive Engineering. Go back under the shadetree where you belong with your "sidewalk mechanic" mentality. Kind of like that Pep Boys commercial where the two guys were installing a battery with a hammer to make it fit.... you remind me of why I am so glad I left the Automotive Industry.


As to my post saying that I will continue fighting Nissan even if it becomes a "one man battle", I hope that wasn't misunderstood. I was not trying to say that I am the only one who will still try to fight to fix our cars. I meant that I have not given up yet, and I am in the process of persuing Nissan with an alternate method as we speak. That is all the details I can give for now. Please post if any of you decide to try that new test I posted about earlier, and tell us all your results. Thanks.

Dave Z

bigk200

I think you were too hard on Joe. I would recommend easing up a little. Just my 2 cents.

In regard to your new test, I don't have to do it on my car because I already know that your findings are exactly the same as mine. Everything that you wrote about can be correlated exactly with my analysis in Post #2 of this forum.

davedzny

Cool Kevin. I appreciate your honesty. Maybe I was too hard on Joe, and I apologize to him if this is what he thinks as well. I think it was a combination of my frustration with my car/Nissan coming out, as well as reliving some moments and memories of things I have seen in the Automotive Industry that caused my ranting. I'll return to sticking to relevant things dealing with our cars, and leave personal issues and such aside.

This was my first "flame" or arguement on a message board, so I guess I got carried away...

BTW, it was really fun keeping the bucking bronco under control today stuck in traffic in heavy rain. I was waiting for those 17 inchers to skid during a heavy bucking session and rear end someone. Maybe I would've gotten lucky and rear ended a NYC Taxi......

Dave Z

jeffmaxse2k

I feel for you 5spd guys....I test drove a 5 spd about 3 weeks ago and I really couldnt get a good feel for the fuel cut but did notice that it was little dicey taking off in 1st...car felt like it had way too much power...like if I slipped off the clutch a bit I'd hammer the guy in front of me! Then again I've never driven a stick with the power of a Max so I'm not sure if that contributed to it.

I too have my problems with Nissan on my automatic Max (as BigK can attest to)..but at least I can drive the thing without any of the symptons that I'm hearing here.

Just for the record regarding Nissan Service...the dealer has been pretty good with me but recently Nissan has told them to stop servicing my car regarding the engine mounts so his hands are tied....Nissan NA Rep Marcel Newton left me a message about 2-3 weeks ago asking me to call him if I still have issues regarding this matter...well 4 call later I still do not have a return call..like Nissan has decided to just ignore me until I stop about the mount issue....cannot believe he will not even call me back....

always get his machine.....

How are the 97-99 5spd Max's? I love driving a standard so much I may sell my 2K auto and step back(down?) into one of those cars......any downfalls other than a slight drop in HP?

jeffmaxse2k

I cant that much of a monetary bath...what the hell am I thinking? Guess i'm just frustrated as much as you guys are with......

bigk200

Go find good mechanic who is not affiliated with Nissan and have him/her disconnect the mounts temporarily. If the noise persists, then install a new idle control valve. If the squeak still persists with a new ICV, then return the valve for a refund. (Sometimes electrical parts are not returnable, so find out up front if it can be returned or not.)

Nissan is not going to help you anymore. You will have to spend your own money.

infinitum

I'm glad to have found this forum. As a previous owner of a 90 Max SE 5 speed that I traded in for my 2000 Max SE 5 speed, I can say without equivocation that there is a problem maintaining a steady speed in first gear in stop and go traffic within a specific speed or rpm range. I've been driving sticks for over 15 years. I was taught how to drive on a manual DeLorean. I've driven manual Chryslers, Chevys, Datsuns, Pontiacs, Toyotas, and Hondas (like butter!). I had a very modified Firebird with a heavy duty racing clutch. I put tons of miles on my friends' Eagle Talon. On not one of these machines did I have the bucking problem that I did on my 2k Max. There is no control of the throttle from around 1800 to 2600 rpm. I have to use heavy amounts of clutching to maintain speed in stop and go traffic. Takeup off the line is not exactly very smooth. I use far more throttle than I want to in order to get the revs out of no mans land. Yes, I can bring it off the line very smoothly, and yes, my passengers barely feel a thing, but the amount of playing with gas peddle and clutch is far beyond what I've ever dealt with before. If I drive it like I would drive any other stick, I will wind up at a bone cracker and my passengers will think I have no concept about how to operate a 5 speed. If I drive it like I don't have a care in the world about my clutch life, then there's no bucking. Oh, and the only issue with my previous clutch was a slave cylinder at around 80,000 miles. Other then that, my old Max ran to 125,000 miles with no clutch problems before I traded it in.

So, I have felt the problem, and can mask it with changing my driving style. But, that doesn't change the fact that there is a problem. It also probably means that this is my last Maxima. My next car will have to be an Acura, BMW, or maybe a Honda if I want to have a stick.

BTW, The rest of the car is fine. No squeaks, rattles, or trunk lid scratches. My only other gripe is the truck like turning circle due to the 17" rims. The test drive was on a car with the 16 inchers. For crying out loud, my new MDX has a turning circle that's as small as my old Civic.

Dennis

bigk200

Thanks for adding your input.

bigk200

For everyone who wants to voice their opinion with a publication, write Matt Stone at:

StoneM@emapUSA.com

He works for MotorTrend and I think he is sympathetic to our problem. Maybe they will mention it in their next writeup.

opimax

Hope this works, shall I use multiple names?

bigk200

If you have multiple email addresses, go for it.

y2kse

Do you happen to have a copy of the Motor Trend article describing the fuel-cut condition? If not, do you know which issue the article appeared in?

bigk200

They only barely mentioned the "fuel-cut" in a 1 or 2 paragraph writeup several issues ago. It was so minimal, it wasn't even worth reading.

However, they are due for a "final" long-term writeup in a future issue. It is in this writeup that I hope we can get some visibility.

ikehedges

Well, I took the Max in. All they did was more tests to send back to Nissan tech. Seems rather lame to me.

I also sent an e-mail to Matt Stone at Motor Trend. Hope something comes of it.

Later,

Ike

y2kse

I sent an e-mail to Motor Trends and cc'd Chris Wardlaw, Edmunds.com Editor-in-Chief. Let's see what happens.

daniell

EOM

y2kse

I received the following e-mail from Chris Wardlaw, Edmunds.com's Editor-in-Chief, today:

"We haven't forgotten you. We were unable to arrange a loan of a 2000 Maxima, but Nissan is supplying us with a 20th Anniversary 2001 Maxima in a couple of weeks. The only reason we're borrowing the car is to investigate this concern."

This was my reply:

"That's fantastic news. Perhaps we'll finally get to the bottom of this.

Specifically, I'd suggest you test the vehicle for the following:

1. Inability to hold rpm on an unloaded engine below 2800 rpm.

2. Inability to maintain a steady speed in 1st gear between 1500 and 2500 rpm.

3. Increasing/hanging rpm between shifts after accelerating rapidly to approximately 2500 rpm."

Stay tuned!

bigk200

Good Job.