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Maxima 5-speed Problems
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I'm sure by now you read the little thing I put in LT update about the Maxima problems. I've received many dozens of emails, and they've all been forwarded to Nissan PR as of today.
Please ask your gang not to send me repeats or follow ups, but if I get any more fresh ones I will forward them on. Let me know if anyone receives a reply from Nissan. I hope they come to the table and address this issue.
Hope this helps, and thanks for everyone's interst in Motor Trend.
Matt Stone
Senior Ed.
I did have an idea for a "cludge" fix I thought I'd get some comments on. How about setting the "closed" TPS to register the first number OFF of "zero" (for closed) so that "zero" is not ever reached, only .00001 or whatever the smallest number is we can set. If zero on the TPS is not reached, as I understand it the whole computer fuel cutoff issue doesn't occur. I know you might have some slight idle speed trouble, but the daily driving would have to mucy improved.
Has anyone tried this?
Can't belive that running the TPS at such a slight misadjustment would cause any trouble.
Slope
Everytime you would want to slow down, you would have to hit the cluch early or else ride the brakes hard.
"been there, done that"
As an update to my previoius comments, I have noticed the RPM "run up" on some shifts, its seems like it does it more on medium hard accelleration than driving grandma style. As I'm still in break-in mode, I have not tried hard accelleration. I don't find this as hard to get used to as
1. the much less flywheel effect the 3.0 has Vs my other cars I've driven, so when I shift slowly the motor is usually already down below where my needed RPM's are. This will take some mental adjustment.
2. The controls are very light with steering only exception. You can hardly feel the throttle and brakes are too over assisted, heal & toe manuvers are going to take some practice. Clutch is not my favorite either, light and long throws, but works ok.
But we've hardly owned the car so I'm sure it will get more instictive like my old car is.
I pushed the handling envelope on a exit ramp and it felt good, but near the limit the car felt sort of ... squishy -- like bushings were compressing strangely or the sidewalls were flexing. I have the 17" rims on a 2k Se, so I doubt its the tires (inflated to 44lbs). Not that the squishy feelning was worth messing with, but have any hard-core guys dialed this out yet?
I have a 2001 se 5spd and have taken exit ramps fast and hard, and while there is body sway (not lots but a some), I don't really get the squishy feeling.
I know what you mean about the clutch. i totally agree. But after 3300 miles starting to become second nature, and don't notice as much as when i first got the car.
- Anthony
- Anthony
Assuming Nissan never fixes this problem, we will be on our own to find a fix from a 3rd party.
How much do you all think the fix should cost? Or to put it another way, how much would you all be willing to pay in order to finally fix the dam* thing?
I'll be interested in your answers!
Kevin
including the being able to hold throttle position at 2k forever, 50 state legal, no loss in gas milage or performance, a warranty, can & will nissan work on my car afterwards (as least as much as they can now?)? I've driven a fixed car and it was great, will mine be the drive the at least the same or better? I am not sure what it is worth, some days a million, the other days if i take the loss and get rid of the car i'll loose a few grand so paying a grand wouldn't be worth the satisfaction of just being done w/Nissan a year earlier than planned
Mark
Mark
In regard to driveability, lets assume that the problem would be completely fixed, beyond whatever you could have possibly hoped for.
I know if these were the options available to me, I'd take it. I'd probably even pay $500 for the dam* thing!
You will hear a Nissan rep leaving me these two pleasant messages. Also note that this was after the fourth visit to the dealer for the "fuel cut" problem.
Dave Z
What part of the country do you live in? Maybe we can get together sometime to compare cars. I'm in Kansas City.
Dave
Trust me when I'm telling you this, compared what I went thru with my POS '98 Toyota Avalon, with the factory rep., and like messages left, Ms. Nissan was great. I also live in So. Cal and when that b-t-h, Lisa Toyosaki told me "I feel your pain". Had she been a guy I would have gone over the desk and ..... BTW My car did not start about 50% of the time, and accelerated with the AC on when braking, and jumped forward when stopped with the AC on. Your gal was a walk in the park in comparision. She didn't seem to be obnoxious or condescending like Toyota -saki was, and she did offer the oppourtunity to go to another dealer with the help-line on call...I was never offered that from Toyota... My 2 cents, and I hope they do something for you, but remember their job is to wear you out...it sucks...I know a 3 year purgatory courtesy of Toyota..,
Duke
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.phtml?postid=183836
Don't dispair if Nissan says 'No' to the formal request to fix the fuel-cut problem (see post #419 above.)
I've just put the finishing touches on a fix, and I am considering commercializing it for resale if Nissan doesn't come through. It will have to be certified by the CA air resources board in order to be legal in all 50 states, but I am confident that it will pass.
I can now hold rpm's on my car down to 1,300 rpm, and it car drives beautifully now!!! It only took me 18 months and 18,000 miles to figure the da*n thing out. I've spent almost $1,000 and countless hours on the project.
There is more to the fix than a regular do-it-yourselfer would want to tackle without a ready to install kit.
Lets wait and see what Nissan says. I hope they will answer soon so that I'll know whether or not to get going with the project.
dhoff- I'll see if I can write out a text copy of the phone messages and post it on my site http://www.geocities.com/davedzny/
Trust me, you get more of the full effect by hearing the message then reading it.
dukehouston2 - Wow. That sucks that you had an even harder time. I didn't think it would be easy dealing with a car company to get a solution, though.
I am seeking resolution via a third party, but I am not using a "lemon law" or arbitration type solution against Nissan since I have found out that the odds are stacked against you in those type of cases. I don't expect any progress with my personal situation for a few more months. I hope something else happens before then.
Dave Z
- Anthony
The GTI VR6 goes 0-60 in 6.8 seconds stock, and runs the 1/4 in 15.3 seconds. The Max is 6.7 seconds 0-60, so it's not much of a big deal. Add in no fuel cut and that .1 second won't seem like such a big deal. My 2001 GTI VR6 right now was timed at 5.93 seconds 0-60 on my best run, but most of them are right around 6 flat. I'm happy.
Good luck dealing with Nissan, I'll still be reading along...
- Anthony
Yes, I do think you posted in the wrong forum. The VW GTI is a compact car, the Maxima is a mid size sedan. Even then, the Maxima is still quicker. The Maxima has fuel cut problem, and VWs have poor reliability and a crappy warranty. So, other than saying that the GTI is ALMOST as fast a Maxima, I am missing your point.
peace!
Speed
Corrosion Peforation/ 12Year Unlimited Mileage
Powertrain Warranty/ 10Year 100,000 Miles
Emissions Warranty/ 8Year 80,000 Miles
New Vehicle Warranty/ 2Year 24,000 Miles
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Once again, someone who doesn't have a clue about the true nature of the "fuel-cut" problem has done a 20 minute test drive, and deemed the car "free of the problem". The author probably spent the entire test drive with his foot mashed into the gas pedal, in which case, the "fuel-cut" problem would never be noticed.
After 18 months of hard work I understand the "fuel-cut" problem completely, and I can say with certainty that ALL Maxima 5-speeds have it. The only people who don't notice it are those who are clueless about how a 5-speed should drive, and/or, they are the type of driver who is "all on" and "all off" the gas pedal, but nothing in between.
I have extracted a couple of paragraphs from the article:
"Aside from wishing the Maxima a happy B-Day, another reason for this Spin Around Town was to handle a request from a reader to look into drivability problems associated with 2000 Maximas with five-speed manual transmissions, as he was frustrated with his 2000 Maxima fitted with the manual gearbox. He stated that his car would not maintain 2,500 rpm in neutral and couldn't hold a steady speed at 1,800 rpm in first gear. He also noticed that the rpm would rise slightly while upshifting during rapid acceleration, despite lifting off the gas while depressing the clutch.
Our test car didn't exhibit the schizoid engine behavior of our reader's 2000 Maxima, save for the rpm rise during upshifts, which was odd but so slight that it didn't affect the performance or drivability of our Maxima. Some research we've done has indicated that this slight increase in rpm (that occurs when de-clutched during upshifts) is to decrease emissions. Indeed, some other cars, such as the Mercury Cougar, exhibit this trait. As our car's performance was otherwise superb, we can't really comment or make any sweeping statements on this issue. We would advise that anyone who does have problems similar to our reader's check out our Town Hall as well as the NHTSA site periodically."
Anyone who believes that Nissan will fix this problem is "smok'in dope". Nissan will never fix it because the don't understand it AND they don't care.
I personally don't care if Nissan fixes because I have already fixed mine. (I posted about this 2 or 3 weeks ago.)
If Nissan continues to keep their head in the sand on this issue, then I sense a business opportunity here.
Jerkymaxima, can you not tell any difference between the speed and pickup of the 97 SE 5-speed and that of the 2000 5-speed? What is this jerk that they are saying all Maximas have? Bigk200, this isn't something that's simply in the nature of manual transmissions, is it?
Also, Jerkymaxima, I have a 97 SE 5-speed and I will drive nothing but 5-speeds. Also, traffic is no problem when the car can get to 20-25 mph in 1st while still at 3 or 4 thousand rpm and can start from a stop in 2nd gear with no problem. (I don't mind sacrificing gas mileage for the length of a traffic delay for my comfort/laziness). I basically use the engine to start and stop. You really don't need to do a lot of shifting. The only thing is that my foot gets tired of regulating how much force I put on the accelerator. That's where the driver's control really comes into play. Any musicians in here? It's like learning to play a trill on the piano with your ring and pinky finger. Driving a stick can be great if you really know how to drive it. I'm with you, jerkymaxima: Gotta have my 5-speed.
At the very top of this page, there is a "Go To" box... just enter '3' and then click the "Go To" button.
(it is not the transmission)
Bigk, although the "Fuel Cut" doesn't affect me all that much because I drive 99 percent at highway speeds, I have noticed that the car is not as smooth at lower speeds. Granted as I stated before I probally tailored my driving style in heavier traffic to compensate for this. That is, I am very light on the gas and try to maintain a constant speed without fooling around with the throttle or brake all that much, ie. at around 5-7 mph. In a traffic jam, I ussually have to keep a distance of around 3-4 car length space to eliminate the herky jerkys, but this does lead to those other damn cars that cut in front of you, thus reducing the cushion between the car that is directly ahead of me and forcing me to brake. But I ever so gently tickle the gas to minimize the effects of the "Fuel Cut".
I haven't been here in a while, and I am truly impressed the work bigk and davedzny, y2k, and the many other regulars on this board have spent on this issue in the past couple of months. At least this issue was brought to light in editorials/articles mentioned by Edmunds and the automotive press (car magazines) at large. This was the direct result of the perseverence of you diehards. If Piss-on us-a ever releases a fix I would be amazed.
bigk I wish you went to work for Piss-on us-a, then we could all have a Max we could all be proud of! As for your work, have you tried talking to one of the major chip/aftermarket speed manufacturers and selling them your idea? Seems that your idea/fix may be a big market, after all Edmunds says that this will now be normal for manuals to reduce emmisions(I know biggie, 'cept bimmers). BTW who was the guy that John DiPietro mentioned in his article? Y2K? Whoever that was, hats off to you, how can Pisson ignore a writeup bringing to light drivability problems in manual Maxs?
Oh, I forgot, they still don't give a Hoover Dam! (Hey L8, no cussin' on this board!) Newly proposed Maxima commercial slogan:
Unsatisfied Maxima Owners...*10,000+ Manual Tranny Drivers!
With a careful foot, you can probably hold the 3000 rpm speed, but all of the other rpm's are impossible with a fully warmed and unloaded engine.
If Nissan doesn't fix this and enough people want to pool some money with an independent accountant, I might be interested in putting together a commercial fix. (I don't want to risk my own money on a bunch of promises!)
I am in the process of getting estimates of cost and I have sent paperwork to CA for emissions certification. I will probably have to submit the car for an emissions test, which it should probably pass without any problems.
To clarify several points and to answer some questions from "borisgudonov" and "96_i30_5sp" regarding my earlier submission (#434) on this interesting Maxima SE 5 speed discussion:
First, I do like my 2000 Maxima 5 speed a great deal despite what I perceive to be an issue related to abrupt fuel flow. What I call "jerkiness" is especially noticeable at low speeds, for example when poking around the parking deck at work -- it feels awkward. My 1997 Maxima 5 speed did not display such behavior. In fact, the 97 was a paragon of smooth power, despite a slightly quirky clutch. The 2000 model engine is wonderful too, it just feels like there is a small switch constantly increasing and decreasing the fuel flow. BTW, Boris, I cannot tell a noticeable difference in acceleration between the 2000 and the 97 models. They both move with great agility and, ahem, significant velocity. I will check again with the dealer to see if they can offer any constructive ideas.
Second, Boris, regarding the "ugly butt"issue: the steady stream of unsolicited positive compliments I have received from both friends and strangers regarding the 2000's appearance compensate for the "Neon" rear end. (One person even asked me if my car was a new Jaguar! OK, she was just a little confused, but I was entertained). Most people notice the 17 inch alloys immediately and the butt doesn't seem to draw opinions either way. Overall, I would buy another Maxima SE 5 speed, despite the slight jerkiness and quirky clutch (see the note from daniell). The cars are simply the best performance sedan value in...the USA!
Third, we may have established the fact that some (or all according to bigK200) 2000 Maxima SE 5 speeds have a fuel flow problem. Whatever. I simply want my car to drive the way a Maxima should. Go ahead Mr.or Ms bigK200, sell out to Nissan and give them your little secret. Do it for the greater good of the Maxima club! Right on Man! You'll feel better (and write off your expense as a business deduction).
please make sure your vehicle engine is UNLOADED, i.e. AC, defrost, lights are OFF. If your car does pass the 1800 RPM test with unloaded engine then I see quite a simple fix for a fuel cut-off.
All we need to do is to download your ECU firmware (if you don't mind) and upload it to the affected car (mine for example ;-)
I was wondering, how come MT and Edmund's did not notice fuel-cut at all. One idea is that Nissan had harassed them (like "you're not getting any advertisement $$ unless you have perfect review"); the other one is that there are more than one ECU firmware revisions. For example, one is optimized for best 0 to 60 time; another is fuel-efficient; the 3rd one is compliant with CA/NY emissions, etc. I think Nissan is aware of this problem and they provided some unique ECU programming for a "review sample".
If the second idea is true, then it's quite possible that some lucky customer (like 96_i30_5sp) got a Max with a "review sample" ECU. In this case we need to get a hold of a Nissan's "Consultant Tool"; and copy the ECU firmware from his/her Max. That would probably be the easiest (and cheapest) solution.
Just my 2 cents..
It's bad enough that Nissan won't recognize this as a problem, but even worse when someone else tells me I am too sensitive or am expecting too much from my stick.
That being said, I also have this problem, and yes, it is more or less noticeable depending on the type of driving I do. To be sure, I ALWAYS know it's there, no matter what type driving.
For a little while I was almost at the point of accepting this as something that would never get fixed, but then I had the opportunity to drive in slow traffic again, which REALLY exacerbates the problem. And the fact that I was in traffic for 1.5 hours meant I got to experience the fuel-cut many, many, many, many times in one trip alone.
I'm driving along with traffic that is going anywhere from 0-25mph.. usually it is moving at least a couple of mph.. so I follow the car in front of me, we are doing maybe 20 for a few moments.. he slows down say 1 or 2mph due to traffic.. likewise I do, and then JERK!!I (I meant the car motion, not the name calling) As I ever so slightly let my foot up off the gas, my engine slows down significantly and as a result I lunge forward slightly in my seat.
Or the reverse happens.. I could try to speed up one or two mph and lurch forward, then have to let off the gas suddenly, or brake, whatever. You can get into a vicious cycle, with traffic sped varying even slightly.
When I cruise down my street at the limit of 25mph, I can't maintain my speed. The drive train feels like a torque-slap happens (much more than the regular and expected drive train lash). What a pain.
The only time I hardly notice it is when I can just get up and go at higher speeds, say in the mid-thirties or so. Though if you look for it, you will fee it in ANY gear, less as the gear is higher.
I want Nissan to fix this, though admittedly I haven't done anything to help, other than complain openly here, and send a mail to Motor Trend.
You won't notice this if you just get in the car and take a quick test drive.. unless you happen to put yourself in slow-moving or stop and go traffic. Believe us, it's there, and can be a great ANNOYANCE!!! I want my 93 Maxima back!!
Pat
"Go ahead Mr.or Ms bigK200, sell out to Nissan and give them your little secret. Do it for the greater good of the Maxima club! Right on Man! You'll feel better (and write off your expense as a business deduction)."
Actually, I already tried to provide my findings to Nissan. I have a CERTFIED letter straight from Nissan, which says that they don't want my findings, whether for money or for FREE. All I had asked for was an extended warranty and the option to buy a 2001 Maxima at wholesale.
After I received their CERTIFIED "love" letter, I went ahead and posted my findings here on this thread in post #3.
My fix is a workaround to the ECU programming. Thus far, no one (including the aftermarket chip manufacturers) have been able to crack the OBD II Nissan computers.
My car drives wonderful now. In fact, its the only 2000+ Maxima 5-speed in America that drives properly.
Anyhow, who has had their "service engine soon" light come on? This light came on on my 97 SE I just bought at about the first of the year. Manual says "emission control system malfunction." Dealer told me to be sure gas cap was tight and it was. I'm hoping it's nothing major. How could it be? I just got it! It was checked stringently by the company I bought from and I payed another reputable company far away to check it and they gave me the go-ahead to buy it. Could it be (gasp) that my driving habits did it?
In regard to your check engine light, you can clear the code by disconnecting your battery for 30 minutes to 1 hour. If the light returns, then you will have to have it checked out.
Would you be so kind as to tell us what the procedure / parts involve?
Thanks,
Pat
electriccafe@yahoo.com
Mark
I am having a problem with this POS spell checker here, sorry if it doesn't read well