Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

fyang

I put down a deposit for a Mazda5 three weeks ago. The dealer (in Maryland) told me the car would come by the first week of August. I talked to the dealer yesterday and was told that the car arrived at the Jersey port on 7/27/09. Can anyone tell me how long it would take to transport the car from the port to the dealership?

Frank

mitchflorida

Can't the dealer provide that information to you? I would guess about 10-14 days, depending if they have to install anything at the port, like mudflaps, etc.

bigbbd

Purchased truck last night at 10PM with $2k rebate. This morning Toyota bumped the rebate to $3k. The dealership had to get the car from another state and I have not taken ownership. I have however signed all the necessary paperwork. DO i have any option to get the additional $1k?????

mitchflorida

If you haven't driven the truck off the lot, then you can cancel the entire transaction. Just refuse delivery for whatever reason you like. Contact the dealer as soon as possible and tell them about the increased rebate.

jmonroe

I have however signed all the necessary paperwork. DO i have any option to get the additional $1k?????

Since the rebate is coming from the manufacturer, it shouldn't bother the dealer because it isn't coming out of his pocket. Just tell the dealer you want to re-do the paper work. To keep the sale I'm sure he'd be willing to do that. If not, walk.

jmonroe

bigbbd

does it have any effect that i used the cash for clunkers program?

jb_turner

No... separate transaction.

jmonroe

does it have any effect that i used the cash for clunkers program?

I agree with 'jb'. That's a separate pot of money and in no way affects the dealers profit.

Just keep in mind you're in control of this situation, unless the truck you want is so rare that you can't go elsewhere to get it.

jmonroe

chuckfromli

I see something that I've noticed for a while. There are large price discrepancies between KBB and Edmunds on new car models. I am talking about Edmunds TMV and whatever KBB calls their real world price. The difference is usually quite large, about $1000.

Moreover, the differences are not even uniform. I did a comparison on both sites between a Ford Escape, Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4. Same models, same trim levels, etc. Edmunds had the Honda as cheapest, the Toyota in the middle,and the Ford as the most expensive. KBB had the Ford as the cheapest, the Toyota in the middle, and the Honda as the most expensive.

I think Edmunds prices are reported by consumers (correct?). I believe KBB says their prices are reported by dealers. Obviously dealers have an incentive to keep the "real world" transaction prices higher. Is that all there is to these discrepancies?

Is one site more realistic or up to date? I also noticed that KBB tends to list Japanese cars at trading much higher prices than Edmunds does.

I trust Edmunds. I think they are the experts, but couldn't a nitwit buyer or two (or two hundred) skewer the results on Edmunds. Let's say someone reported buying a car worth 24K for 22K, but they never mentioned that they financed through the dealer at a high rate for 5 or 6 years. This would deflate the purchase price if all the profit is in the financing, extended warranty, etc.

Thoughts? And hey, you guys are great!

kyfdx

Edmunds TMV uses a proprietary model (which I'm not privy to), but I wouldn't assume that it gets the information from consumers.

I'm pretty sure that all of the models get their information from car dealers.

As far as the difference? I'm sure it's because our information is better!

grandtotal

I'm sure it's because our information is better!

That may or may not be the case. The only thing you can say with certainty is that your information is different.

deltheking

In my opinion,KBB values are on the higher side for new cars. Edmunds most certainly is more accurate than KBB new car values.
For used cars,KBB trade values are low but their Dealer retail value is the biggest joke in auto industry.Edmunds used car values are slightly higher but more in sync with the market.And I would say--Edmunds info is different and more accurate than KBB for the buyer..For the dealer,he would prefer it the other way round!! :shades:

lrguy44

KBB, Edmunds, Black Book, NADA, etc. are merely guides and not always reflective of localized markets. Even what I consider the best guide, the Manhiem Auto Auction reports that reflect real numbers for what dealers paid for cars is only a guide. The only way to get a true market value is to shop. And don't go by just what the dealer offers for the trade. They may show you more than they actually value the car at. Look at the difference - that is your only true guide.

british_rover

Edmunds used to be more accurate then KBB for some cars but now I am not so sure.

Over the past few months KBB trade in has been within a few hundred bucks of Galves, the wholesale book for the northeast, when putting in our local zip codes. Edmunds has sometimes been high or sometimes been low but not as consistently accurate.

deltheking

Yes,Obviously KBB,NADA,Black book,Edmunds are just guides.They are not real market values.A guide just suggests a price.It is not offering to buy a car for that price.If any guide does that-then it would be truly accurate.But what it does is -It atleast gives you a rough value of your trade in.
Say ,you have a domestic car with 60k miles--Maybe it`s worth 4k.But you expect 9k and the dealer is offering 3k..So the buyer fells he is ripped off for close to 6k.But if he had known from the guides that his trade in was being stated for 5k,atleast he is in the ball park.
But we all know,buyers always check the site which gives the highest trade in with an immaculate condition even though their trade in is in fair condition with dings and scratches and then expect a fortune on their cars..
Not going to happen!Do your research.Ask Volvomax for a real time market value in the Real World trade in forum,,go to carmax for a fixed cash value good for 7 days and then plan your purchase!! :shades:

lrguy44

The problem with the guides is most buyers take them as gospel. "I checked KBB and I know exactly what my car is worth" is a common phrase. When you hit the car $2000 lighter because of recon required and market, they leave. Even after they have visited several dealers and have been educated, they will not return - call it some kind of face saving.

mitchflorida

I have never heard of a Used Car Manager paying the wholesale value as measured by the Black Book, which is used in the SouthEast, or any other guidebook.

The wholesale book price is just a starting point, and most Used Car Dealers will try to buy the car for about $1000-$2000 under wholesale bluebook. That is how they make their big commissions. the more they can underpay for the car, the better.

lrguy44

If the book is a just a guide why is bidding a car below that trying to steal a trade? Or is that just another anti dealer remark?

jwilliams2

The wholesale book price is just a starting point, and most Used Car Dealers will try to buy the car for about $1000-$2000 under wholesale bluebook. That is how they make their big commissions. the more they can underpay for the car, the better.

Sounds like the dealer and the customer are trying to do the exact same thing. Buy cars as cheap as possible.

british_rover

I just paid real money 800 dollars over galves, which is a much tougher book then black book, for a nice jeep today.

That much over galves was just over KBB good condition per the KBB website.

I over allowed 500 bucks to show her KBB excellent because I could tell she really liked the jeep and had taken great care of it. It wasn't in excellent condition, and nothing really is, but by showing her that excellent condition value she felt better about the deal.

She got a good deal on her new car, essentially 400 bucks over invoice once you consider the over allowance, and I got a very nice jeep that I can turn around and retail.

I will pay over book for stuff that is nice, clean obviously well taken care of and I know I can retail. Maybe your cars were always in poor shape and needed significant reconditioning and that was why you think you are getting well under book value for them. Hey maybe you like purple cars and no one else does and that is why you think you are getting under value.

Hey maybe its just cause you are in Florida I don't know. Maybe you just put off an attitude and they don't want to do business with you. Best way to blow off someone who you don't want to sell a car to is to under value the trade.

chuckfromli

....and the discrepancies between KBB and Edmunds.

I understand about Galves. I went through that with my last trade in. Once the salesman eplained that Galves gives auction prices, in case they have to auction the car off, I understood the low trade in value.

oldfarmer50

"...the more they can underpay for the car, the better..."

That's capitalism for you.

british_rover

Yup, I bet he is a socialist. :surprise: :P

oldfarmer50

I saw a window sticker (Mulroney) that said: "built especially as a fleet vehicle".

What does that mean?

Is the Navy in town? :confuse:

mitchflorida

This has nothing to do with me personally. I have worked in new car sales, and I am familiar with how the Used Car Manager appraises the trade in. He is no different than the New Car Manager, who wants to get the highest price for his new cars. The Used Car Manager wants to pay the lowest amount for the trade-ins. Sometimes I was embarrassed by the low offers that the Used Car Manager would make, and the customer would run out of the dealership angry and offended, when offered something well under low blue book.

Occasionally, the customer would "bite" and the Used Car manager was a very happy man indeed. Not saying who is in the right or wrong here, just telling it like it is.

mitchflorida

Used car sales are still very profitable for the car dealer because sometimes they can get away with paying very little for them, and then turn around and sell them at full retail.

As W.C. Fields once said, "Never give a sucker an even break."

If you want to get top dollar you have to take the time to sell it private party. Otherwise, you are going to get clipped. End of story.

deltheking

You once had a debate with Volvomax and others in the RWTIV thread about your repainted Honda Civic.The Civic had been totally repainted and hence it should have a higher trade in value as per you.Any used car manager in the biz can tell this--a repaint almost kills the trade in value of a used car.No manager would ever give a higher trade value for a repainted car.And did the Civic sell privately for 10k?You said you would keep us posted on that!
Car dealers are in business to make money.Yes,they lowball.But customers too think their cars are in excellent condition even though they need a lot of reconditioning like tires,brakes,scratches,dings,stained carpets and an interior with fast food odor.to them it may be perfect but not to the dealer or the next buyer. :shades:
The car dealers can give a lower quote -it`s their job.The buyer`s job is to get a rough idea of their trade,go to 2 or 3 dealers or carmax and then they can have an idea of their trade value.And a dealer can ask anything he wants-that` ethical.What would not be ethical --showing a lower credit score even though it`s not,a much higher finance rate than the buyer is approved of,hiding damage to the car ,selling a rebuilt /flood damaged car . :lemon:
So the guides must be used as a very rough estimate to get a general idea.They are not gospel truths.They need to be used as a cross reference.

volvomax

Edmunds TMV uses a proprietary model (which I'm not privy to),

Yup, its called throwing a dart at a board. :P

volvomax

Some manufacturers have special versions of their cars for Fleet customers.
Volvo sells a lot of cars to be used as company cars by medical sales reps for example. Since the fleet companies are looking for the lowest price these cars are built without certain options that the retail cars have. Or they come up with special fleet packages that combine elements of several different retail packages.

tidester

Yup, its called throwing a dart at a board.

It's all in the wrist and we just do it better than anyone else! :P :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

deltheking

Vmax,I literally spilled my coffee on your comment!!!That was really funny! :shades:

mitchflorida

Wow, you really must feel threatened in some way that you make such personal attacks. Maybe I have hit a nerve as far as you are concerned.

The truth is, I have never owned nor will ever own a Honda Civic (too down-scale), so you have all of your so-called "facts" wrong, in keeping with the rest of your post.

deltheking

Never my intention for any personal attack.sorry if you felt that way.Was just stating a fact from about 3 months ago about a trade in value you needed a value for a car which was repainted.The argument was that any repaint kills a car`s resale value and you refuted that..Don`t exactly remember it was a Civic but some repainted sedan.

british_rover

Yup we had a few fleet V50s come in without sunroofs for 2009 even though that was supposed to be standard for all 2009 V50s.

We do a lot of Fleet deliveries for the Boston Red Sox too and see some odd ball S60s sometimes.

deltheking

Ok here are the cold facts.It was your repainted fire-red Accord coupe not Civic coupe,correction there.
Pasts # 37396,37399,37406 in the RWTIV thread and Vmax`s reply post 37420.
And yes all my facts including your repainted car trade in discussion are all absolutely true.Check the posts again. :shades:

british_rover

Oh man that whole section is comedy gold right there.

The only thing better in my recent memory is the guy a couple of years back that was going on and on about his Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT with 200,000 miles and how great it was.

I think that was on the sales front line thread. I will look.

mitchflorida

My post about Used Car Managers underpaying the book value for used cars had nothing to do with my car. It is a general rule of thumb that a customer will be offered about $1000 under wholesale book to see if he will "bite" the bait. Sometimes the bids are so low, it is hard for the salesman to keep a straight face.

I really must have hit a raw nerve with the dealers on this board. I guess I am revealing their "tricks" and they don't appreciate it. Nuff said.

lrguy44

Not nuff said. This is a competitive business and if all dealers (as you generalize your venom to be all inclusive) tried to steal every trade they would lose many deals. In our case we get bids from 3-4 sources and the high bid is what I will buy the car for even if they do not buy from me. How can I do that? I have the car sold for that amount.
It sounds to me like you had an extremely short auto sales career at a slam store and have bitterness.
Is profit a dirty word?

deltheking

Any response to the above post # 1446 ??

boomchek

The bottom line is if you want the max amount of money for something you're getting rid of, you gotta do it yourself, just like anything else in life.

By trading it in to us, you're paying for the convenience via lower trade in value than if you were to sell privately.

You want max dollars for your car, you gotta put in your own time, money, elbow grease, and effort to spruce up the car, clean, recondition it, and wait by the phone for people to call and inquire about it. To some it's not a big deal, but for others, their time is more valuable than that. It's as simple as that.

Just like buying a pizza. The least expensive solution would be to make your own from scratch. Or you can buy a frozen one, and bring it home yourself and put it in the oven. Or you can pay someone for the convenience of making it and bringing it to your doorstep.

A pizza joint will charge as much as the market will bear for it, not only to remain not only in business, but also to stay profitable.

A dealer has to sell high and buy low for exact same reasons.

lrguy44

Amen. Not to mention having strangers coming to your door and waiting for the buyer to obtain financing. I am in the business and always trade. I do not have the time or desire to sell them myself. When you add up the tax savings by trading (here one pays tax on the difference), it makes sense.

mitchflorida

I agree with everything you are saying. My point was that many inexperienced buyers waltz into a dealership, show the dealer the Black Book wholesale value and expect to be given that. For most dealers, the Wholesale value is the MAXIMUM they will pay, and it will take several hours of hard bargaining to get it, if they can get it at all.

As we used to say in the Car Biz, "You want the Edmund's trade-in value? Then go sell your car to Edmunds. And don't let the door hit you on the way out."

british_rover

Ok took a little looking but I found the Dodge Stealth story.

Oh man this is Comedy Platinum right here.

Start here

Here is a good highlight

Makes me miss terry

it just gets worse from here

boomchek

I used to say that too. Black/blue/kelley book is saying you HAVE to get this for your car? Then you have to call them and sell your car to (inser name of book here_______________) :P

deltheking

BR,This is as funny as,if not more than Mitcflorida`s discussion about trade in values on a repainted car.Sometimes topics like these are needed for a good laugh.Reminds me of folks listing their used cars as being"babied" And thanks for the time to search and post those links. :shades:

deltheking

Just for the sake of fun, Boomcheck-What if the tables are reversed?What if the customer says- "Ok Mr.Salesman,you say the Kelley retail value on this is 15k.OK,Fine,no problem.Let Kelley give you 15k for it and I will pay Kelley?No negotiations ,nothing.Done deal or what? "
This should be interesting!

british_rover

Oh yeah the Tbaxxon Stealth RT is much funnier then the repainted Accord story.

There are a lot of good funny old stories in the sales front line thread. Just pick a page at random and then read forward or backwords a few pages to find them.

boomchek

Cause we're not selling our cars to Kelley. We're selling it to you. And then we negotiate and you tell us what you want to pay for this car. and then we make a deal.

oldfarmer50

"...Is profit a dirty word?..."

Some think so. Today I sold two items to a woman at a sale price. She then proceeded to ask me that if she bought a third would I give it to her free. :confuse:

verdugo

Any response to the above post # 1446 ??

HAHA Thanks for the posts on RWTV. Like BLRover said, pure comedy gold.

I have a question to the admins. Is there an ignore feature? It'd come in really handy to ignore the trolls. TIA.