If my Buicks had Chinese parts in them, the cars wouldn't make it out of the driveway without the car's suspension collapsing and leaving the car sitting on its axles. The Chinese can't even properly forge a crescent wrench. How are they going to make anything as complex as a front end suspension without the metallurgy failing. Philadelphia's cratered streets will pound a Chinese-made vehicle to pieces within 4 blocks!
The Chinese can't even properly forge a crescent wrench. How are they going to make anything as complex as a front end suspension without the metallurgy failing.
I'm sure they're capable of it, but they probably keep the good stuff that they make in their own country, and just send the ultra-cheap stuff over to us! And the reason we get that cheap stuff? Because there's a demand for it!
The Chinese can't even properly forge a crescent wrench.
Not Crescent wrench too?
In all fairness. I was looking at the new Fiskars hedge trimmers at Lowes. They are now made in China. I cannot tell the difference in fit and finish from my old Made in USA pair. I am glad I have all the tools I will ever need. But some of the stuff they are making now will rival what we have made. It was only a matter of time. Same as with early Japanese vehicles that were junk. Sorry Lemko, you may have the last USA made Buick in your garage right now. I would imagine it has at least 20% Chinese parts.
It is hard to say anymore what is "American". The 2001 Chevrolet Z06 Corvette has its engine from Ontario Canada, Brake pads are from Australia. Forged wheels were from an Italian Company (issues about poor forging techniques) Spark plugs from JAPAN. Bosch makes the traction control and abs systems. The shocks are from a German company. The Balsa wood floor panels are from Central America. STP technology ("fiberglass") from... who knows where. Water forged outer structural members from....
Yes, a Camry has way more American Part Content than a Mustang does these days....this is really not a domestic issue anymore, it's a global thing, and the only argument left is "who" makes it, not "where".
Depends on your definition of "American." Some define it as being assembled here. Some define it by amount of American-sourced content, no matter where it's assembled. Some say it's American if it's designed here, and who cares who builds it or where the parts come from.
Then there are the *ahem* folks who consider it American if ithas a Ford, GM, or Chrysler badge, no matter that it was designed, tested, and built in South Korea from parts that were sourced there and China.
1. Assembled here 2. amount of American-sourced content 3..they are designed here (unless you do not consider LA part of America) 4.and you have got the range of no body cares to some body cares who builds it 5. and or where the parts come from.
As for the "ahem" folks.... well while they might let the facts get in the way, the facts speak for themselves.
Looked at Fiskars for rose pruning saw made in China. I noted the Corona saw looked better and I bought it because it was made in Korea: think Hyundai. Good.
my best pruning shears are Felco made in Switzerland. I also have two different Fiskars one made in USA the other the UK. The UK pair are better and where more expensive. I think the moral of the story is, these companies did what they had to do to survive. Something the domestic auto makers were unable to accomplish. Now they are begging US to bail them out. If you follow the money on all the bailouts you will find a special interest group passing cash to our government officials. Both elected and appointed.
Buck knives are from San Diego before moving to Idaho. I am friends with the family. Old man Buck may have been in LA prior to 1961. That is when we met when I worked next door to their shop. A fine family. They left San Diego because they were being bullied by our local city government. Same reason a lot of businesses are moving from unfriendly states like CA and Michigan.
These very same municipalities that do their dead level best to make sure businesses like these LEAVE, always claim to not understand.... why they left. I guess that is why they form "blue ribbon" comissions to attempt to convince folks they are doing something.....
Hoyt Buck started in Mountain Home, Idaho originally and then moved to California and then came back here after many decades. Probably couldn't make it here in the 40's after the war. Nothing stays the same.
I have two Felcos and a Corona knock-off hand pruner, and I prefer the Corona. Perhaps made off-shore but they are a California company (based in Corona naturally).
I'm trying to come up with some way to tie this in with government loans to Detroit but I've already used up my weekly allotment of groaners so I can't say stuff like prune the deadwood.
The ties are very close. The auto industry will have to go off shore to survive. A company cannot pay $30 per hour for unskilled labor to make the small cars that are going to be mandated to save fossil fuel. The current rounds of bailouts are just paybacks for votes. Even Obama knows that GM cannot survive with their debt load and the UAW noose around their neck. When the gravestone is set it will read 'here lies GM brought down by those that were greedy". GM never learned that they were competing against other companies. They kept believing that US consumers would buy whatever they shoved out the door. Wagoner was too busy stashing his $15 million a year to pay any attention to the company.
Off-shore may not remain all that cheap for long. Mexico was hot and now it's not.
Let 'em come to Boise; we already make big honking diesel locomotives here, so why not some econoboxes? I don't know what the pay is but the benes are good.
Here's a nice graph for you btw - GM stock price since 2004:
Why did Ford go down so much today? Did I miss some important news? I was flying high on Ford stock after buying in at $1.76. I hope it was just day traders taking profit.
Ford and GM stocks started moving in different directions just about the time that Ford announced they wouldn't be taking bailout money. Coincidence? Head To Head
I thought I was going to be rich when "F" hit 6 bucks. Oh well, I am still doing well on it. It has helped my sickly 401K. I am not sure how they can just decide to issue more stock. Seems so underhanded. I really gave up trying to figure out the market years ago. Let Fidelity worry about it. I do much better buying and selling real estate. Anyone like to buy the Renaissance Center in Detroit? Good long term tenants. :shades:
Renaissance Center? They should've called it the "False Dawn." Look for Detroit to become like cities on the show "Life After People." It'll give us an idea of what happens to an abandoned city without the aid of computer graphics.
But it is interesting that the urban boundary around Washington DC, as grown almost exponentially during the same time.
The new guy in the white house will be adding tens of thousands of jobs there according to recent news accounts. Suppose many of these will be to "help" the automakers and to monitor, track the government "loans" to the Detroit 2.
I don't consider living in a high rise as thriving. Anything less than an acre around me is an abomination. Living that close to other people is just not healthy, physically or mentally. I think the Philadelphia plagues are a prime example.
All of Detroit will look similar in the next decade. It proves my idea that spreading out is preferable to cramming together with people you don't even know. There should only be a half dozen homes in the space. Good riddance to the cities. I avoid them at all cost.
That will be the next waste of our tax dollars. Building the future slums of America.
Shoot, the developers already HAVE built the future slums of America during the last 20 years. Those particle board, styrofoam, and Tyvek McMansions are going to quicky fall apart and into disrepair only to be occupied by the current and future underclass! Heck, it'll probably be more cost-effective to demolish them than try to repair them. You've heard of cars that fall apart by the time you make the last payment? These crumby houses made of crumby materials and inept illegal alien labor won't last until the last mortgage payment! Half a million $ doesn't buy what it used to! My circa 1955 Airlite will be standing long after the last 2006 McMansion has collapsed in on itself!
North Philly - Coming to a suburban development near you soon!
As a balance, on the other hand that is also true of rural area's. This is slightly oxymoronic in CA's agricultural areas as it has been and in some instances still seen as the bread basket of the world.
During the heyday of the (CA) real estate (bubble), CA Central Valley (northern ca), CA was hotter than hot. I personally could not understand it before I went to look. After I went to look I was even more convinced after I had taken a series of hard looks. At the time agricultural unemployment was approaching 25% and literally nobody else was looking to put anything in the area.
In addition some "rural" municipalities are following misguided policies of "preserving" pastorial lands (aka looks like bucolic stereotypical "pastorial" lands, but economicall unviable for almost anything that you would want to apply an economic yardstick to.
Again the same result, they wonder why the areas are in "arrested economic decay".
I don't consider living in a high rise as thriving. Anything less than an acre around me is an abomination.
What about the various Trump Towers and their luxuries? Or, multi-million dollar condos in high rises along Lake Shore Drive in Chicago? The high-rises in Miarmi? Lots of people, mostly big shots, like that. They don't have to worry about cutting grass nor buying parrot beak fiskars.
Living in a high rise condo makes you a slave to the other home owners. Condo fees go up with no limitations. Management companies abscond with the homeowner fees. NO THANK YOU! Been there done that. If I need a beach fix I can rent a condo for a month and get it out of my system.
A lot of those high rise condos you don't even realize you have neighbors. Some people like the city life, others like more open air. To each their own.
Speaking of Trump did he get his bailout?
I hope he uses the money to buy a good rug to cover that mop he has on his head.
Having done both my preference by far is the fresh air with a view of the neighbors off in the distance. If you have all the money in the World you can pick your neighbors. Not on a working man's wages.
Along that line we got a notice that there is stimulus money to refinance our home up to 105% of the appraised value. Isn't that what got US in the mess we are in?
"...The U.S. market this year will be fewer than 10 million vehicles while sales in 2010 “will start to incrementally recover,” Jacoby said."...
..."The cuts are part of a larger GM plan to drop 2,600 of its 6,200 dealerships as the automaker tries to restructure to become profitable again. The moves likely will cause the loss of thousands of jobs and governments will lose untold dollars in tax revenue as dealerships are forced to close"...
Saw a guy interviewed on MSNBC yesterday who said his wife owned the Jeep dealership in Paramus. They were on list of dealers that Chrysler announced to eliminate. He said that he did not agree with govt bailing out Chrysler and wished that events would have taken a different course. Wonder if that is a unique position of a dealer. Would think that all Chrysler dealers would want Chrysler company to get bailout to keep them afloat for now and get them competitive again.
Would think that all Chrysler dealers would want Chrysler company to get bailout to keep them afloat for now and get them competitive again.
I'm not 100% "up" on their individual franchise contracts, but it might be similar to a bondholder situation, where they stood to gain more in a standard, non-government-sponsored BK, or a liquidation.
They also could have been shopping for other franchises between then and now, though they should have been anyway. Jeep is the best of the bunch, but they had to figure they'd be on the chopping block for cost-cutting because they didn't carry the other brands.
It will be interesting to see how this latest game of "chicken" plays out, and if it will lead the way to and through the big B!! (chapter 11)
Meanwhile the AXED local Chrysler dealerships are having so called inventory "fire" sales. One local dealer got the double whammy: 1. AXED by the GM side 2. other half of the business, Chysler franchise. It has not been a good year for family "small" business'.
One distressing example was a local news piece one franchise struggling to celebrate 50 years of a dealership in the same families hands, receiving a certified letter (getting the symbolic AXE head) outlining the two words Donald Trump based a reality show on: You're Fired.
This seems like a sad end though they plan to get a better line of vehicles soon. So all those loyal buyers will probably buy a Hyundai, VW or some other foreign namplate.
Ogden » Jim Hinckley has never owned anything other than Dodges.
That's not too surprising -- after all, his great-grandfather Robert H. Hinckley opened Hinckley Dodge in 1915 -- making it the oldest continuously run Dodge dealership in the world.
The oldest, that is, until Thursday, when Chrysler LLC terminated its franchise agreements with 789 of its U.S. dealerships. Ten of those stores are in Utah, and one is Hinckley Dodge of Ogden. Until early next month, there are 24 in the state.
"Our loyalty certainly hasn't been repaid," he said Friday.
Now, Hinckley says, he is "going to be a little more open-minded" to different brands when buying a new car. And, despite Chrysler cutting its ties, his business is staying put.
"The way we look at it, we're just Ogden's newest used dealership now," he said, later adding the company might look to other car manufacturers for a franchise.
Comments
link title
I'm sure they're capable of it, but they probably keep the good stuff that they make in their own country, and just send the ultra-cheap stuff over to us! And the reason we get that cheap stuff? Because there's a demand for it!
Not Crescent wrench too?
In all fairness. I was looking at the new Fiskars hedge trimmers at Lowes. They are now made in China. I cannot tell the difference in fit and finish from my old Made in USA pair. I am glad I have all the tools I will ever need. But some of the stuff they are making now will rival what we have made. It was only a matter of time. Same as with early Japanese vehicles that were junk. Sorry Lemko, you may have the last USA made Buick in your garage right now. I would imagine it has at least 20% Chinese parts.
Then there are the *ahem* folks who consider it American if ithas a Ford, GM, or Chrysler badge, no matter that it was designed, tested, and built in South Korea from parts that were sourced there and China.
1. Assembled here
2. amount of American-sourced content
3..they are designed here (unless you do not consider LA part of America)
4.and you have got the range of no body cares to some body cares who builds it
5. and or where the parts come from.
As for the "ahem" folks.... well while they might let the facts get in the way, the facts speak for themselves.
Heck, I don't even consider it part of the planet Earth!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Buck formerly of (LA) now Post Falls Idaho
I have two Felcos and a Corona knock-off hand pruner, and I prefer the Corona. Perhaps made off-shore but they are a California company (based in Corona naturally).
I'm trying to come up with some way to tie this in with government loans to Detroit but I've already used up my weekly allotment of groaners so I can't say stuff like prune the deadwood.
Let 'em come to Boise; we already make big honking diesel locomotives here, so why not some econoboxes? I don't know what the pay is but the benes are good.
Here's a nice graph for you btw - GM stock price since 2004:
GM Executives Cash Out As Bankruptcy Looms (Inside Line)
Let's see - here we go - UPDATE: Ford Motor Sells 300M Shares Of Stock, $4.75/Shr (Wall St. Journal)
Here's the AutoObserver blurb.
Ford hit ~$6 a share recently. It'll be interesting to see if and when they get back there.
Head To Head
Nope. They knew bailouts would dilute the stock value, not to mention reducing the power of shareholders.
Given our short history as a nation, since "1776" 233 years, it has been more of an ongoing process, rather than a more recent phenon.
But it is interesting that the urban boundary around Washington DC, as grown almost exponentially during the same time.
The new guy in the white house will be adding tens of thousands of jobs there according to recent news accounts. Suppose many of these will be to "help" the automakers and to monitor, track the government "loans" to the Detroit 2.
This is what the South Bronx in NYC looked like by 1975:
This is what a lot of parts of once-thriving North Philly now look like.
All of Detroit will look similar in the next decade. It proves my idea that spreading out is preferable to cramming together with people you don't even know. There should only be a half dozen homes in the space. Good riddance to the cities. I avoid them at all cost.
That will be the next waste of our tax dollars. Building the future slums of America.
North Philly - Coming to a suburban development near you soon!
During the heyday of the (CA) real estate (bubble), CA Central Valley (northern ca), CA was hotter than hot. I personally could not understand it before I went to look. After I went to look I was even more convinced after I had taken a series of hard looks. At the time agricultural unemployment was approaching 25% and literally nobody else was looking to put anything in the area.
In addition some "rural" municipalities are following misguided policies of "preserving" pastorial lands (aka looks like bucolic stereotypical "pastorial" lands, but economicall unviable for almost anything that you would want to apply an economic yardstick to.
Again the same result, they wonder why the areas are in "arrested economic decay".
What about the various Trump Towers and their luxuries? Or, multi-million dollar condos in high rises along Lake Shore Drive in Chicago? The high-rises in Miarmi? Lots of people, mostly big shots, like that. They don't have to worry about cutting grass nor buying parrot beak fiskars.
Yes I have, they are called Domestic automobiles. :shades: Except Buick...
Speaking of Trump did he get his bailout?
Speaking of Trump did he get his bailout?
I hope he uses the money to buy a good rug to cover that mop he has on his head.
Money and class are enemies once again.
Along that line we got a notice that there is stimulus money to refinance our home up to 105% of the appraised value. Isn't that what got US in the mess we are in?
link title
By Nadja Brandt
link title
"...The U.S. market this year will be fewer than 10 million vehicles while sales in 2010 “will start to incrementally recover,” Jacoby said."...
link title
..."The cuts are part of a larger GM plan to drop 2,600 of its 6,200 dealerships as the automaker tries to restructure to become profitable again. The moves likely will cause the loss of thousands of jobs and governments will lose untold dollars in tax revenue as dealerships are forced to close"...
I'm not 100% "up" on their individual franchise contracts, but it might be similar to a bondholder situation, where they stood to gain more in a standard, non-government-sponsored BK, or a liquidation.
They also could have been shopping for other franchises between then and now, though they should have been anyway. Jeep is the best of the bunch, but they had to figure they'd be on the chopping block for cost-cutting because they didn't carry the other brands.
link title
It will be interesting to see how this latest game of "chicken" plays out, and if it will lead the way to and through the big B!! (chapter 11)
Meanwhile the AXED local Chrysler dealerships are having so called inventory "fire" sales. One local dealer got the double whammy: 1. AXED by the GM side 2. other half of the business, Chysler franchise. It has not been a good year for family "small" business'.
One distressing example was a local news piece one franchise struggling to celebrate 50 years of a dealership in the same families hands, receiving a certified letter (getting the symbolic AXE head) outlining the two words Donald Trump based a reality show on: You're Fired.
Ogden » Jim Hinckley has never owned anything other than Dodges.
That's not too surprising -- after all, his great-grandfather Robert H. Hinckley opened Hinckley Dodge in 1915 -- making it the oldest continuously run Dodge dealership in the world.
The oldest, that is, until Thursday, when Chrysler LLC terminated its franchise agreements with 789 of its U.S. dealerships. Ten of those stores are in Utah, and one is Hinckley Dodge of Ogden. Until early next month, there are 24 in the state.
"Our loyalty certainly hasn't been repaid," he said Friday.
Now, Hinckley says, he is "going to be a little more open-minded" to different brands when buying a new car. And, despite Chrysler cutting its ties, his business is staying put.
"The way we look at it, we're just Ogden's newest used dealership now," he said, later adding the company might look to other car manufacturers for a franchise.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12382022