I sure hope so! I hope it also helps the city of Detroit. I've seen recent pictures of that beleaguered place and it makes Philly look like Beverly Hills!
What I wonder is, If the auto industry bailout was a bust, would they have blamed Bush? I see they gave Obama credit for the Bush initiative to give the automakers money from TARP to give them a kick start.
Short memories in the media. Just sayin'
Oh, and Bloomberg is way off on CA real estate making a rebound. But that is another story.
Sure, always blame the outs. It's the American way. As I remember, McCain didn't support the bailouts and he even pulled out of Michigan since he knew it was futile to spend campaign money on trying to get swing votes there. Obama ran on bailing out the auto industry so I think it's fair that he's taking credit for its success. Bush was in it for 25 billion, Obama bumped it to 80.
Obama's auto czar says "If in the end taxpayers spend $10 billion on the auto rescues, it seems a small price to pay for averting a major economic calamity." Detroit News
Remember it was two terms of Bush that put us in this down turn. Did you all forget that his dad was just as Bad as he was? I am not crazy about what Obama has done he needs to grow some you know whats. If i could i would vote Mr.W. W Buffet to office. We need a good Businesses man in office and he needs the power to fire and clean house in the name of the American People.
No president can get any thing done with the current congress.. We need to clean house and Gage them on performance.. If they don't step up and do the job then can them and the next group and clean house again. How about you in your job if you didn't perform on the job how. long till the boss deals with you.? Stop thinking that the Republicans or the Demarcates have your best interest at hart. You are not the special intrest group that they work for. The sooner you come to terms with that the sooner we can all stop and work together and fixing the problems at hand.
I am so Proud to be an American but still mad as you know what about what they did to the USA. They didn't just drop the WTC and kill alot of people and distorted families Christian and Muslim.. ,They destroyed our economy and put a lot of us out of work. This country is to nice to terrorists they don't deserve the same rights that we have . They gave up rights when they infringed on your rights. Execute them as soon as you find them. Stop being so politically correct. Stop spending my money to feed and house them.
We did it right when we found Bin-laden. Treat the rest of them the same way and stop spending my money to incarcerate them.
I came to the USA when i was five , Mom and Dad made me speak English in the house so that they could learn from me.. Dad would say "You are in America be proud that they gave you the chance to earn the right to live in the USA and become a citizen as soon as you can". He would also say "Do'nt forget your upbringing and where you came from but look to the further and LOVE AMERICA FOR THE CHANCE SHE IS GIVING YOU". He would then tell others who put America down " IF YOU DO'NT LIKE HER THEN GET THE HECK OUT AND DO'NT COME BACK.
I Say stop being Politically correct. And start protecting my rights. Put the word GOD back in and if some one decides not to use the word that’s fine but its my right to have it in . Stop trying to change what has worked for so long for so many for so few. Its against my rights to take it away but its not against your right not to say it.
I think you're on to something, because I think one of our problems is we have stopped acting like Americans and become politically correct losers. No self accountability or behavior standards any more. Now every politician's excuse are the schools. Can't fix schools by just blaming the teachers and teaching to test scores. No doubt school perormance needs to improve, but we don't have to become Asians, we have to go back to being what Americans used to be. America was great because of innovative thought and creativity and there is no real standardized test for that. Disruptive kids need to be expelled if their parents don't get them under control and it may not be politically correct, but we also need to go back to tracking - not all kids are equally smart and by mixing them all in the same classes we're holding back our brightest. Way too many lawyers in America and a screwed up (overfocus on "rights", blame and sue every time something goes wrong and protect the criminal at all cost approach) legal system is ruining business, medicine, schools and most other facets of life here. And whether one believes we should soak the rich or we need to cut their taxes even more - the rich can't fix all these troubles by themselves. Americans have to start taking responsibility for their lives and their country which used to be the way we were when we were a very successful country.
Not all kids are college material, but it doesn't mean those kids are "dumb." We need serious vocational and apprenticeship training for those kids who won't be going to college. The other problem is the kids who go to college and get a degree, but no marketable skills. I don't care if you can quote me all of Shakespeare's sonnets. How does that fix my toilet?
Totally agree Lemko. But you know what, that's the first place the high schools seem to cut - can't touch the liberal arts, and definitely not the football program!
That's not always the case. It's more of an attitude that all kids should go to college. Vocational school often is seen as a bad thing.
The regional technical high school my town belongs to has many high tech careers in addition to their traditional trade programs. The world needs plenty of people willing to work with their hands but many parents won't allow their children to learn a trade because it's beneath them.
If I had kids, I'd sooner have then learn useful SKILLS like plumbing, being an electrician, or mechanic than a bunch of worthless liberal arts garbage they could learn on their own if they have an appreciation for literature and the humanities. There is absolutely no shame in a blue-collar trade. I'm more impressed with the guy on can fabricate a custom motorcycle fuel tank from sheet metal than some egghead who can memorize and recite all of the poetry of Robert Frost.
"Oh working with my hands is beneath somebody with a brilliant mind such as myself!" "Wow, I guess you can summarize Proust for me while you serve me a latte, Mr. Liberal Arts barista!"
If my kids are going to college, they're going to learn the hard sciences like medicine, computer science, or mechanical engineering. Don't waste your money or time on nonsense like Art History, Women's Studies, Modern Dance, or Ancient Babylonian Theatre.
>Remember it was two terms of Bush that put us in this down turn
Whoa. You may have your opinion, but there are other opinions. I suggest that you take a look at the mortgage giveaways starting in the Clintonista era with janet reno threatening the mortgage companies if they didn't give everyone a mortgage just for breathing, even if they didn't have a job above minimum wage that they were likely to have 30 years from then. And you can transfer the push right through Maxine Waters yelling when Bush tried to cut back on the mortgage giveawat from Freddy and Fannie (at our expense as taxpayers) in 2005/2006, Barney Frank, Dodd, etc.
>No president can get any thing done with the current congress
Again, obama wants to use more public money for public jobs that go to unions that will give him support, donations, and financial aid from the big wigs. Printing more money on top of the $1,000,000,000,000 already spent on a mostly public jobs stimulus bill will only worsen the position of the US dollar to other currencies. That's a factor in the pricing of oil for our markets because of the low dollar value. So let's just print a few hundred billion more dollars to spend and to use to buy our own debt to keep the interest rates artificially low? Congress (Senate dems wouldn't even pass stuff) keeps the sanity in this administration.
Obama had congress of democrats for 2 years. Look at what got rammer through. Democrats were in control Bush's last two years? Did they fix anything?
I couldn't agree with you more...well, except maybe for Ancient Babylonian Theater. The want ads are crammed full of ads for people with knowledge about that. Problem is, you'd also need to be fluent in Arabic and be willing to relocate, since ancient Babylon is now Iraq.
A lot of different people have their hands on this economic mess. If I had to point to one in particular I'd go with Alan Greenspan and his artifically low interest rates (under both parties I might add). It does seem odd though that both president Bush's presided over real estate debacles (remember the S&L crisis?).
Obama's auto czar says "If in the end taxpayers spend $10 billion on the auto rescues, it seems a small price to pay for averting a major economic calamity."
He may have counted those votes too soon. Looks like the reality is a much bigger loss with the bailouts. And the spinning continues on why we should have saved a few UAW jobs. Other than Democrat votes.
U.S. boosts estimate of auto bailout losses to $23.6B
And something that's kept pretty quiet is - GM doesn't have to pay income tax on its first $45B in profit. So they won't be paying any tax until around 2016 - 2020. If they survive that long. Oh yes, I forgot we can't let GM fail and be replaced. We HAVE to have that GM symbol until Infinity and beyond!
God forbid that I couldn't buy a Chevy Impala or Cadillac Escalade.
"Delphi emerged from a lengthy bankruptcy in 2009, but is drastically downsized from its status as one of the world’s largest automotive suppliers following its spin-off from former owner General Motors Corp. The company once made scores of different components, from complex to trivial, but product lines have been cut by nearly 75 percent and its previous North American orientation, reflected in its origins in GM’s in-house parts-making operations, has been reversed – now more than 90 percent of its workforce is located elsewhere and most of its North American product lines are served by production in Mexico."
Not positive but I think some of Delphi workers just got Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation benefits when the company went bankrupt, and Delphi wasn't in on the overall auto bailout.
"Detroit-based automakers will hire more than 30,000 new workers in the next four years, reversing years of declining employment in the ranks of Ford Motor Co., General Motors Co. and the Chrysler Group LLC, said Kristin Dziczek, director of the labor group for the Michigan-based Center for Automotive Research."
I'll be waiting to hear more about the 2013 Ford Escape. The Escape will be made here in the U.S. All else being equal, give Ford the business. Let Ford's market-share become #1, and let GM and Chrysler sell their operations to someone worthy.
Since GM doesn't have to pay income tax for years, let Ford profit more, and the U.S. government will collect more in taxes, getting some of that bailout $ back.
That's my take as well. I traded my Sebring in for a Ranger and when it comes time to replace that, I'll be looking at another Ranger or the Explorer Sport Trac before anything else. My 08 Ranger with 52K miles has been flawless so far.
"Former U.S. President George W. Bush told car dealers gathered at a convention in Las Vegas he “didn’t want to gamble” with a depression in defending the loans he gave to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC.
“I didn’t want there to be 21 percent unemployment,” Bush said in a speech yesterday to cap the annual National Automobile Dealers Association convention, attended by more than 20,000 people. “I didn’t want to gamble. I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.’ And so I said, ‘no depression.’”
President Bush could be right, or wrong, since we'll never know what would have happened had the bailout not occurred. We can only speculate. I'm generally opposed to government bailouts, and without the advantage of forsight, favored letting our bankruptcy laws work. One thing's for sure, and that is that the wisdom of the Detroit two bailout will be argued for decades, with no definitive conclusion.
Well, GM and Chrysler did go through bankruptcy, and like a lot of other bankruptcies, it was pre-planned and pre-funded. Main difference was that the funding was public.
Ford could have done the same thing using their private funding when they hocked the farm, and gained the benefit of being able to cancel and renegotiate union and dealer contracts. Might bite them in the long run.
Personally, I admire George W for his candor. When you are the leader sometimes you've got to make the pragmatic decision rather than theoretical or idealogical calls. A lot of history indicates that Herbert Hoover was too stubborn to his ideals and that was a major contributor to the financial collapse and resulting depression.
I don't live in an auto state, but I always felt some of the Senators like Corker and Shelby were being a bit disingenuous in their vehement bailout opposition. First, it's easy to take an idealogical stand when you aren't ultimately responsible for the decision. But let's be realistic for a moment . Southern states are the primary location of the transplants thanks in at least some large part to the huge tax and financial incentives they provided. Yet these same politicians opposed government monies for D3. It's fine if Alabama or Tennessee government monies are used for transplants, but its not alright if anything is used for Detroit. Seems to me that D3 failures mean big transplants rewards, so the southern states would then reap a windfall. Just another sad example of Washington politicians focused on their narrow, parochial self interest rather than the overall good of the country.
Chrysler is hiring a number on new "American" employees after survival, but I agree with you HM, there will never be a definitive conclusion because all the political parties do is argue and manipulate.
Steve, if you look at the timing of all of this the problem is that banks and financial instituions were not lending or investing much at the time. I very much doubt Ford could have obtained any significant private funding then, and there is no way GM or C could have. I doubt George W or his Treasury Secretary Paulson were too happy at the time, but from a practical standpoint there really wasn't a private sector solution available at the time. It was really kind of black and white - gov money or failure. The latter meant no more GM or C at that moment in history.
I agree with all that. IMO Bush made the right call. I think if nothing was done, the situation would be much worse right now. The future isn't golden yet, but it could be worse.
I also find it hilarious when certain politicos who subsidize transplants to come to their states, transplants who themselves benefit from endless gifts given by their home countries and expect to compete here with complete access, then cry when we give similar aid to domestic industry. Like you say, domestic failure equals win for the competition who have been in a defacto manner bribed to locate to certain states.
In 2008 Ford mortgaged all assets to raise $23.4 billion cash in secured credit lines, in order to finance product development during restructuring through 2009. In December that same year they asked Washington for a $9 billion line of credit. (per Wiki and PBS).
Remember too that Cerberus Capital Management owned Chrysler at the time; I think they had plenty of money but didn't want to throw good money after bad. Bad being Nardelli imho. :shades:
I don't think Chrysler had the book value to do what Ford did; GM, maybe.
The Ford mortgage took place before the BK's, but they do kind of run together a bit. However, that mortgage effort would have further precluded Ford's ability to restructure under a subsequent BK. I think the bad part of the GM and C BK was the gov blatantly favoring the UAW over the bondholders. I understand they were trying to help the manufacturers in offloading health insurance during the restructure, but it was still bad precedence that may arise in the future affecting other company financing and restructe efforts. The gov just added a new risk variable into these sort of things. As for Nardelli, you are probably more charitable toward him than Home Depot! I think he was rather irrelevant to the C BK because I feel the only reason they got bailed out was that many of the Ceberus movers and shakers were previously key political players from both political parties. C was in no way as essential to the economy at that point in time as GM.
Not all kids are college material, but it doesn't mean those kids are "dumb." We need serious vocational and apprenticeship training for those kids who won't be going to college.
That pretty much describes my late Grandfather. He only had a 6th grade education, mainly because he had to drop out of school to help out the family on the farm. Probably couldn't name all 47 states, or however many there were back then. But, he knew farming and hunting inside and out. Could build a house, and probably fix anything in it that broke. He could also fix just about anything on a car, although once emission controls and computerization came out, he started giving up. Still, I remember him fixing something on my college buddy's 1980 Accord when it overheated.
If the world suddenly went to hell in a handbasket tomorrow, it would probably be people like my Granddad who would be the survivors, and build it back up. At that point, it wouldn't matter how intimate you were with calculus, or whether or not you could diagram a sentence, or knew Jonathan Livingstone Seagull backwards and forwards.
It's interesting that our competitors still have huge programs for vocational and technical training, apprenticeships and so on. They still have jobs in those areas too, whereas we have sent away so much. Doesn't bode well in the long term.
I still remember as a kid when my grandmother passed on buying a 49 star flag because the 50 stars were coming a year later. Damn. I coulda had a 49 star flag!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Hit them all but Hawaii before I was 30. Couldn't drive to it, and I was 31 or so before I could come up with the airfare to tick it off the list.
Unfortunately (for this topic), I hit most of them in a VW Bug or the Tercel. Nothing like cheap gas, tenting in gravel pits and "borrowing" bags of groceries out of Mom's cupboards to live on when you're twenty-something. :shades:
Would that I were more adventurous at that age - or any age. I do have several states (that I don't count) that I've only been to because I changed planes in an airport there - Missouri (KC airport), Colorado (Denver) and Hawaii. I'll manage them all yet. A could nail a bunch of the missing states with one dull trip- Kansas, Oklahoma, North Dakota.....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Big sky country - fun place to watch the weather develop. Somehow I always managed to go through Oklahoma City at 2 am. Guess we should move this to Road Trips....
"In a surprising turnabout, Chrysler has withdrawn its application for loans from the U.S. Department of Energy to build greener cars.
Ford received $5.9 billion under the program while Nissan North America was awarded $1.4 billion. Electric car start-up Tesla Motors received $465 million, while hybrid start-up Fisker Automotive got $529 million.
Chrysler originally had sought as much as $7 billion in loans under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing loan program, according to Automotive News. It subsequently lowered that request to less than $3.5 billion."
I'm amazed that an east coast boy like yourself has managed to miss all of New England. Nice area. I'm usually up there at least once a year.
Let's see, I'm missing North Dakota (south is really nice in the west and very dull in the east), Kansas, Missouri (except KC airport), Colorado (Denver airport), Oklahoma and Hawaii (Honolulu airport).
There's several states where my presence was of short duration but at least I drove through a piece....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I've turned down 4 or 5 trips just in the last couple of years. Friends who are hauling something up or down; great trip, but not as much fun when you drive it straight through. :-)
Isn't if fun what we get to do since the government didn't let the Detroit 3 fail?
"Detroit— Auto sales are growing so fast that Detroit can barely keep up.
Three years after the U.S. auto industry nearly collapsed, sales of cars and trucks are surging. Sales could exceed 14 million this year, above last year's 12.8 million."
Throw in that we're supporting the economy with payroll tax cuts and extended unemployment benefits that add to the careening federal debt, and I don't see many facts supporting that sort of optimism.
That is best case. Worst case is a great natural disaster hits - like a BIG earthquake in CA, or N. Korea or Israel or Iran get itchy trigger fingers.
"The idea that a U.S. style bailout is in the cards doesn't impress Flanders Automotive Research's Heylen. He thinks the European authorities don't see the need for financial assistance to reform the car industry, unlike banks, which needed help to stop a contagious collapse which would undermine economies. A car manufacturer failure would be a plus, not a negative.
vs
"Look at the financial straits that GM was in or Chrysler in particular. It looked like sending good money after bad at first, but look at them today. There seemed to be no chance that Chrysler could be saved with all the money in the world, but it has been turned around in the most remarkable way and is now bailing out Fiat. Any European politicians looking at this would be fools to not to follow the same example," Schmidt said.
Comments
Just hang out in the Renaissance Center when you come - January and all.
Short memories in the media. Just sayin'
Oh, and Bloomberg is way off on CA real estate making a rebound. But that is another story.
Obama's auto czar says "If in the end taxpayers spend $10 billion on the auto rescues, it seems a small price to pay for averting a major economic calamity." Detroit News
No president can get any thing done with the current congress.. We need to clean house and Gage them on performance.. If they don't step up and do the job then can them and the next group and clean house again. How about you in your job if you didn't perform on the job how. long till the boss deals with you.? Stop thinking that the Republicans or the Demarcates have your best interest at hart. You are not the special intrest group that they work for. The sooner you come to terms with that the sooner we can all stop and work together and fixing the problems at hand.
I am so Proud to be an American but still mad as you know what about what they did to the USA. They didn't just drop the WTC and kill alot of people and distorted families Christian and Muslim.. ,They destroyed our economy and put a lot of us out of work. This country is to nice to terrorists they don't deserve the same rights that we have . They gave up rights when they infringed on your rights. Execute them as soon as you find them. Stop being so politically correct. Stop spending my money to feed and house them.
We did it right when we found Bin-laden. Treat the rest of them the same way and stop spending my money to incarcerate them.
I came to the USA when i was five , Mom and Dad made me speak English in the house so that they could learn from me.. Dad would say "You are in America be proud that they gave you the chance to earn the right to live in the USA and become a citizen as soon as you can". He would also say "Do'nt forget your upbringing and where you came from but look to the further and LOVE AMERICA FOR THE CHANCE SHE IS GIVING YOU". He would then tell others who put America down " IF YOU DO'NT LIKE HER THEN GET THE HECK OUT AND DO'NT COME BACK.
I Say stop being Politically correct. And start protecting my rights. Put the word GOD back in and if some one decides not to use the word that’s fine but its my right to have it in . Stop trying to change what has worked for so long for so many for so few. Its against my rights to take it away but its not against your right not to say it.
Just saying
The regional technical high school my town belongs to has many high tech careers in addition to their traditional trade programs. The world needs plenty of people willing to work with their hands but many parents won't allow their children to learn a trade because it's beneath them.
"Oh working with my hands is beneath somebody with a brilliant mind such as myself!" "Wow, I guess you can summarize Proust for me while you serve me a latte, Mr. Liberal Arts barista!"
If my kids are going to college, they're going to learn the hard sciences like medicine, computer science, or mechanical engineering. Don't waste your money or time on nonsense like Art History, Women's Studies, Modern Dance, or Ancient Babylonian Theatre.
Whoa. You may have your opinion, but there are other opinions. I suggest that you take a look at the mortgage giveaways starting in the Clintonista era with janet reno threatening the mortgage companies if they didn't give everyone a mortgage just for breathing, even if they didn't have a job above minimum wage that they were likely to have 30 years from then. And you can transfer the push right through Maxine Waters yelling when Bush tried to cut back on the mortgage giveawat from Freddy and Fannie (at our expense as taxpayers) in 2005/2006, Barney Frank, Dodd, etc.
>No president can get any thing done with the current congress
Again, obama wants to use more public money for public jobs that go to unions that will give him support, donations, and financial aid from the big wigs. Printing more money on top of the $1,000,000,000,000 already spent on a mostly public jobs stimulus bill will only worsen the position of the US dollar to other currencies. That's a factor in the pricing of oil for our markets because of the low dollar value. So let's just print a few hundred billion more dollars to spend and to use to buy our own debt to keep the interest rates artificially low? Congress (Senate dems wouldn't even pass stuff) keeps the sanity in this administration.
Obama had congress of democrats for 2 years. Look at what got rammer through. Democrats were in control Bush's last two years? Did they fix anything?
This discussion probably belongs in
Forget Bushisms, Biden Gaffes, We have Obama blunders
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
He may have counted those votes too soon. Looks like the reality is a much bigger loss with the bailouts. And the spinning continues on why we should have saved a few UAW jobs. Other than Democrat votes.
U.S. boosts estimate of auto bailout losses to $23.6B
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111114/AUTO01/111140434/1361/U.S.-boosts-estima- te-of-auto-bailout-losses-to-$23.6B
God forbid that I couldn't buy a Chevy Impala or Cadillac Escalade.
"Delphi emerged from a lengthy bankruptcy in 2009, but is drastically downsized from its status as one of the world’s largest automotive suppliers following its spin-off from former owner General Motors Corp. The company once made scores of different components, from complex to trivial, but product lines have been cut by nearly 75 percent and its previous North American orientation, reflected in its origins in GM’s in-house parts-making operations, has been reversed – now more than 90 percent of its workforce is located elsewhere and most of its North American product lines are served by production in Mexico."
Not positive but I think some of Delphi workers just got Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation benefits when the company went bankrupt, and Delphi wasn't in on the overall auto bailout.
Detroit Three Automakers To Hire Thousands In Coming Years (AutoObserver)
Since GM doesn't have to pay income tax for years, let Ford profit more, and the U.S. government will collect more in taxes, getting some of that bailout $ back.
That's my take as well. I traded my Sebring in for a Ranger and when it comes time to replace that, I'll be looking at another Ranger or the Explorer Sport Trac before anything else. My 08 Ranger with 52K miles has been flawless so far.
Kudos to Ford for not taking the bailout.
“I didn’t want there to be 21 percent unemployment,” Bush said in a speech yesterday to cap the annual National Automobile Dealers Association convention, attended by more than 20,000 people. “I didn’t want to gamble. I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.’ And so I said, ‘no depression.’”
Bush Tells Dealers He Avoided ‘Gamble’ in Bailing Out Automakers (Bloomberg)
Ford could have done the same thing using their private funding when they hocked the farm, and gained the benefit of being able to cancel and renegotiate union and dealer contracts. Might bite them in the long run.
I don't live in an auto state, but I always felt some of the Senators like Corker and Shelby were being a bit disingenuous in their vehement bailout opposition. First, it's easy to take an idealogical stand when you aren't ultimately responsible for the decision. But let's be realistic for a moment . Southern states are the primary location of the transplants thanks in at least some large part to the huge tax and financial incentives they provided. Yet these same politicians opposed government monies for D3. It's fine if Alabama or Tennessee government monies are used for transplants, but its not alright if anything is used for Detroit. Seems to me that D3 failures mean big transplants rewards, so the southern states would then reap a windfall. Just another sad example of Washington politicians focused on their narrow, parochial self interest rather than the overall good of the country.
Chrysler is hiring a number on new "American" employees after survival, but I agree with you HM, there will never be a definitive conclusion because all the political parties do is argue and manipulate.
I also find it hilarious when certain politicos who subsidize transplants to come to their states, transplants who themselves benefit from endless gifts given by their home countries and expect to compete here with complete access, then cry when we give similar aid to domestic industry. Like you say, domestic failure equals win for the competition who have been in a defacto manner bribed to locate to certain states.
In 2008 Ford mortgaged all assets to raise $23.4 billion cash in secured credit lines, in order to finance product development during restructuring through 2009. In December that same year they asked Washington for a $9 billion line of credit. (per Wiki and PBS).
Remember too that Cerberus Capital Management owned Chrysler at the time; I think they had plenty of money but didn't want to throw good money after bad. Bad being Nardelli imho. :shades:
I don't think Chrysler had the book value to do what Ford did; GM, maybe.
That pretty much describes my late Grandfather. He only had a 6th grade education, mainly because he had to drop out of school to help out the family on the farm. Probably couldn't name all 47 states, or however many there were back then. But, he knew farming and hunting inside and out. Could build a house, and probably fix anything in it that broke. He could also fix just about anything on a car, although once emission controls and computerization came out, he started giving up. Still, I remember him fixing something on my college buddy's 1980 Accord when it overheated.
If the world suddenly went to hell in a handbasket tomorrow, it would probably be people like my Granddad who would be the survivors, and build it back up. At that point, it wouldn't matter how intimate you were with calculus, or whether or not you could diagram a sentence, or knew Jonathan Livingstone Seagull backwards and forwards.
That would be about six weeks in 1912. Arizona became a state on JAnuary 6 and New Mexico followed on February 14.
I still remember as a kid when my grandmother passed on buying a 49 star flag because the 50 stars were coming a year later. Damn. I coulda had a 49 star flag!
Betcha every one of them had some government loan money floating around too.
I've only done about 42.
Unfortunately (for this topic), I hit most of them in a VW Bug or the Tercel. Nothing like cheap gas, tenting in gravel pits and "borrowing" bags of groceries out of Mom's cupboards to live on when you're twenty-something. :shades:
Ford received $5.9 billion under the program while Nissan North America was awarded $1.4 billion. Electric car start-up Tesla Motors received $465 million, while hybrid start-up Fisker Automotive got $529 million.
Chrysler originally had sought as much as $7 billion in loans under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing loan program, according to Automotive News. It subsequently lowered that request to less than $3.5 billion."
Chrysler Withdraws Application for U.S. Department of Energy Loans (Inside Line)
Alaska
Hawaii
Oregon
North Dakota
Rhode Island
Massachussetts
Vermont
New Hampshire
Maine
So, I'm at 41 out of 50.
Let's see, I'm missing North Dakota (south is really nice in the west and very dull in the east), Kansas, Missouri (except KC airport), Colorado (Denver airport), Oklahoma and Hawaii (Honolulu airport).
There's several states where my presence was of short duration but at least I drove through a piece....
Hm, there might be an ice road....
We always wanted to drive the Alcan to Alaska...
Isn't if fun what we get to do since the government didn't let the Detroit 3 fail?
Three years after the U.S. auto industry nearly collapsed, sales of cars and trucks are surging. Sales could exceed 14 million this year, above last year's 12.8 million."
Detroit automakers race to keep up with sales (detroitnews.com)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-job-quality-is-in-trouble-2012-02-27?link=MW- _home_latest_news
Throw in that we're supporting the economy with payroll tax cuts and extended unemployment benefits that add to the careening federal debt, and I don't see many facts supporting that sort of optimism.
That is best case. Worst case is a great natural disaster hits - like a BIG earthquake in CA, or N. Korea or Israel or Iran get itchy trigger fingers.
"The idea that a U.S. style bailout is in the cards doesn't impress Flanders Automotive Research's Heylen. He thinks the European authorities don't see the need for financial assistance to reform the car industry, unlike banks, which needed help to stop a contagious collapse which would undermine economies. A car manufacturer failure would be a plus, not a negative.
vs
"Look at the financial straits that GM was in or Chrysler in particular. It looked like sending good money after bad at first, but look at them today. There seemed to be no chance that Chrysler could be saved with all the money in the world, but it has been turned around in the most remarkable way and is now bailing out Fiat. Any European politicians looking at this would be fools to not to follow the same example," Schmidt said.
Chaotic European market spurs Opel-Peugeot merger talk (Detroit News)