Remeber, his comments ( I insinuated) were that under the auspices of bankruptcy, the last to get money should be the employees, and that they should pay creditors first. My point was, no money, no work. No work, no cars. No cars, no payments for the creditors.
That would be over and above any cuts that would be mandated by the bankruptcy courts.
That may be. However, under a bankruptcy scenario, you do what the court says. If the court says they are excused from the pension payments (into), and only pay half of the healthcare, and employees take a 15% paycut, then so be it. But if they say honor the UAW contract, and to hell w/ the creditors, then that's what you do.
I don't think anyone expects the workers to work for nothing.
What would be wrong with the UAW leadership going to Congress and saying we will take a voluntary across the board cut in wages and benefits that bring us in line with the competition? Our retirees will go onto Medicare that they paid into and pay their own supplemental coverage. That in lieu of GM going into Chapter 11 which could have a much worse affect on the UAW members & retirees.
"What would be wrong with the UAW leadership going to Congress and saying we will take a voluntary across the board cut in wages and benefits that bring us in line with the competition?"
Absolutely nothing. If that's their will, then so be it.
My thinking is that would put the monkey back on GM management's back to get the kind of product out to the consumer that is wanted. All those that feel the UAW is the major roadblock would be left without a scapegoat. As you say it would be the UAW's call at this point.
On retiree health care - how about you negotiate that once the retiree hits 65 Medicare becomes their primary while the company picks up the supplemental? Saves money and continues care.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Sure. I could even see say someone with 30 years in but is only 50 be given incentives NOT to take the pension until 59 1/2 (extra 10%???), but penalized 15% if they want it now.
I'm hoping that when they start putting together the plan to get through this that both sides see there are ways to cut a lot of spending other than (just) salary givebacks.
Despite the press going on I fully expect all of the BIg 3 to be around on January 20 when they will get a good hearing.
I'm still on the fence about bailout. I could get behind it under the right conditions.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I should have mentioned - the Democratic plan that is now being put together makes the next $25 billion a loan and gives the government an ownership stake. Those are two things I'd put in there as well.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I read that about government ownership. I would think that GM would have to issue additional shares of stock and We the would buy them. Not sure how the other stock holders would feel about it. I would imagine if this Congress takes them over they will just continue to pay the workers and not worry about them making more cars.
You're missing tthe point. Asking people to WORK, and NOT PAY THEM is not an answer. It's slavery.
It's also a way to force any organization to make the changes necessary to become profitable again. It's an incentive to run your business right. As I said pay the lower-paid people first, as they are closer to the edge. The execs. get paid last, as they need to be forced to make change.
They need to make cost-cuts not next year, or in 2010, they need them TODAY. They need to cut people without paying $250,000 per employee when they leave. Today! They won't though because they expect it to be pretty much "business as usual" because they have coerced and convinced fools that GM (or the Big3) is too big to fail, and that the taxpayers now need to write an endless series of blank checks to keep the system going.
The wording on that article is suspect Steve. Do you know what "aggregate US GDP" means. Because certainly an economy with over 100M workers did not drop 1/3 because GM and its suppliers stopped work for 1/3 a year.
The math is no where near close! Even if GM and all its suppliers accounted for the entire US economy, if they only were out of work 3 months, the GDP would have only dropped 1/4.
Maybe you want to go to a government website and check the GDP for 1998. I'm afraid this article is another bit of misinformation - through the financial jargon being used(?) - to sway public opinion.
For all you people who think a loan of our tax money is a good idea, please tell us what you are doing personally to help the Big3.
Have you went out and purchased a new Big3 vehicle in the last couple of months? or are you seriously shopping for one now?
Have you transferred any $ from savings, CD's or mutual funds and bought Big3 stock? or their bonds?
If not please tell us why you're not personally willing to help or invest in them? And why isn't the rest of the public who wants the tax-payer to provide the $, helping the Big3 similarly. There are 300M people in this country, why can't the Big3 get enough money and sales from the population?
Here's an idea that would cost the governement nothing. Why don't they setup an account at each bank and brokerage firm, so that you supporters could easily transfer your $ (CD's, 401K ...)into a Big3 funding account, and then when they start making lots of $, you'll be rich!
Is it because we know down deep that this is just a Money-Grab to keep a failing operation alive a little longer, and enrich everyone in the GM network for a while longer? And everyone who make $10/hr, $15/hr, or $20/hr many with no health benefits or pensions is supposed to fund this?!! :mad: :mad:
The site hasn't changed the story but one of the commenters says that they really mean that GDP growth dropped by a third. Which would correspond to another reported stat from the '07 GM strike:
"each week the United Auto Workers, who walked off the job at GM Monday, remain on strike reduces gross domestic product by 0.3%." WSJ
1. No more "cheapened" parts. 2. Assemblies that repeatedly fail (ex. Opti-Spark, steering locks ) are replaced within one model year with a unit that works. 3. Quality is not job one....Quality is the only job. 4. Significant wage and salary reductions across the board. 5. Hire designers who can actually draw enticing and exciting vehicles. 6. A government overseer (recommending Lee Iacocca) who makes sure the execs 'cut the fat' and 'cut the crap' and get their companies running efficiently
Mr.Iacocca would be a good choice, but, he's a little...umm...old for the job. If he'll take it fine..but. I have a lot of respect for Lee after his work for Ford with the Mustang and his "saving" of Chrysler in the 80's. Mr.Iacocca single-handedly saved Chrysler and read his autobiography if you don't believe me. I would give a penny for his latest thoughts on the bailout.
As you know, I am against a bailout, even with conditions. Circuit City just went belly up and DHL closed all ops in the U.S. so why weren't these companies helped? Too small? so is each taxpayer.
If a company I work for fails, I get a new job. Period.
I placed my vote by buying a Honda CR-V this week. Planning for the boomerang in gas prices.
If a company I work for fails, I get a new job. Period.
Exactly. But there are certain occupations where they look at you like you're trying to smash their holiest of relics, if you suggest they try some other career. Policemen, firemen, autoworkers and other union workers are definitely at the head of occupations where you'll find this death-grip on their occupation.
It's a combination of: 1) pretty good $ and benefits compared to what else they may be qualified for, and 2) not having any idea of what else they might do.
The upper management of the Big3 however would love these loans and bailouts, as it buys them time to find their next job, and maybe the bailout gives their stock options some value before leaving (or makes Cerberus's sale of Chrysler easier and more valuable).
I really don't care how old Lee Iacocca is. Just remember, wisdom and understanding have no expiration date. And at this point, the industry needs all the help it can get. . Iacocca has more automotive smarts, integrity and courage in one arm than all the current Big Three executives combined. Besides, he is the only car exec that I know of that paid back the Chrysler loan....plus interest.
He's 84. I DO care how old he is or, more to the point, if he still has the kind of stamina and smarts still in him. He might well. I wouldn't rule him out but I'd like to hear of a backup candidate. Right now I can't name you one.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Obama is after Volcker for Treasury at 81. So Lee at 84 should not be a big deal. He did pull off some real good ones. We are running low on CEO's that know how to do anything but cash in stock options.
ABC News' Z. Byron Wolf Reports from Capitol Hill: An architect of the original bailout bill said Thursday Democrats lack the votes to pass bill giving auto companies a piece of the $700 billion bailout pie next week.
"I want to help them if we can, but I'm not going to give anyone a blank check, so we're going to try and do something if we can next week. I don't think the votes are there. Candidly, I don't think we have the votes to get that done. With no big change between now and next Wednesday, I'm skeptical," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., who chairs the Senate Banking Committee.
Even after January, Democrats will have to gain some Republican support in the Senate to pass a new rescue package for the automakers -- and that is looking less likely.
Republicans worry that every time Congress passes a rescue package for a new industry, others will line up to create a bailout soup kitchen line.
I wonder if I can get a Corvette at 35% off around January. I would think banks will be reluctant to finance anyone with less than 30% down. They don't want a bunch of repo cars to go with their foreclosed homes.
How about giving the bailout money to them? It's not like they'll need a ton of it since they do business with other automakers outside of the Detroit stalwarts, but they'll still get that boost to help them get through these tough downtimes.
I would imagine the suppliers that are not in trouble could borrow money if needed. It is mainly GM that has run their business like our government is run. Borrowing and Spending without much thought of paying it back. Then selling GMAC the only thing they were making money on shows just how bright GM management really is. And selling it to a demonic hedge fund like Cerberus. They are getting what they deserve. Both eyes poked out with the devils pitchfork. GM sold their soul to the devil!
A monster not to be overcome and that may not be described, Cerberus who eats raw flesh, the brazen-voiced hound of Hades, fifty-headed, relentless and strong. Hesiod, Theogony 310
I am absolutely amazed at how many people are out there that without question, think the government should just "Show me da money" to Rick and his bunch of cronies, as if anything meaningful could ever come out of it.
Yup, we should just hand over 25, 50, (why not make it 100 billion :dr evil snicker:) bucks to a failing company who refuses to change the ways that got them in to this mess
and hope that this company that has been in a massive, mis-managed, 35 year tailspin can all of a sudden find success with future products (that fall under the same tagline we've been hearing for those same decades "just wait till next year..." :mad: ) and start making money again while the economy is in the proverbial crapper. I think we'll have a better chance of seeing a Led Zepplin reuinion tour with the original lineup...
To me, it would be the equivalent of a 30 second "timeout" in the corner of a classroom. :mad:
Don't you just love his lines near the end of article about capping executive pay, rushing fuel-efficient vehicles to market, unwilling to step down as CEO or make any management changes?
"I don't think it'd be a very a smart move...Our job is to make sure we have the best management team to run GM. It's not clear to me what purpose would be served by resignation."
Is this guy joking or what? What an arrogant, ignorant...I can't say what I want to say so I'll leave it at that. The way to have the best management team at GM is to remove him and his team. IF they get the money they'll rush fuel-efficient vehicles to market. With an attitude like that, let 'em cook.
rushing fuel-efficient vehicles to market, unwilling to step down as CEO or make any management changes?
Clueless is the term I would use to describe GM management. Here is a recent story on the vapor Volt they are banking on saving the company.
GM's Chevy Volt electric car is said to be on track for its late 2010 delivery date, but there might be a problem or two with the batteries. The nearly 300 lithium ion batteries will be strapped together in a tight group between the seats, and while GM engineers are confident the individual batteries work, they're not sure how long they'll last or if they'll overheat when they work together in a pack.
GM has also not decided if the batteries will be made in the U.S., or in Asia, where battery tech is more advanced, said GM chief Rick Wagoner in Washington yesterday. He was visiting the nation's capitol, seeking $25 billion in loans from the U.S. government to help his company build advanced-tech vehicles (might as well get while the getting's good, eh Rick?).
Just what I want sitting next to me cruising down the Interstate at 75 MPH, 300 little fire bombs. What's that smell dear? They don't know if the batteries will come from the US or Asia? Don't know how long they will last or how much they will cost. They think they will lose money at $40k a pop. What do they plan to build that will pay back our $25 billion in tax dollars?
I'm with you on that one. This whole Volt thing does nothing for me. It isn'tthought out; they are counting on "then a miracle happens" as one of the steps to get to it and then are saying that after a tax credit it will come out to the equivalent of a mid $30s price. No thanks.
Until I heard Wagoner really trying to justify himself I could have bought into leaving him in charge. Forget it. He doesn't understand what he's up against. Time to clean house.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Think about this. GM will probably be sending a big chunk of our bailout to China for battery production. They are two years from selling the first Chevy Volt and are already planning to rebadge it as a Pontiac. Are they CRAZY?
Not only that Lutz has already conceded that Toyota will beat them to market with the Plug-in Prius. Knowing how Toyota works they will end up getting all the Tax credits before Chevy gets their Volt out the door.
It's not what you know...that should be the mantra of the so-called "captains of industry".
The simplest of minds blindly defer to credibility-free authority....
The simplest of minds embrace the cowardly arrogance of said captains, calling those wronged by executive excess "whiners" while failing to produce anything "proactive" or any solutions themselves...
This whole Volt thing does nothing for me. It isn'tthought out; they are counting on "then a miracle happens"
Toyota came out with a car that cost around the low $20's, had reasonable space inside, had at least reasonable performance, and got 45-50 mph. So GM decided to leapfrog Toyota. Their vehicle is going to go 40 whole miles on a six hour charge and cost $25-$40K, with government tax credits(=your money and my money). Toyota's business model works, GM's doesn't. It's lunacy. Wagoner and the top brass need to go. GM as it now stands is a failed business model and will never be successful without massive changes.
Simple minds do not solve complex issues and problems. They just [non-permissible content removed].
And pay the taxes. That is why we [non-permissible content removed] :sick: Although it does seem to me that we were sold a lot of expensive Telco gear that was far from trouble free. I can remember staying up long hours trying to find the bugs left by over paid engineers. Hard to know what to [non-permissible content removed] about with the upper management. They did little but fly to seminars and play golf. Hard to screw anything up from several 1000 miles away playing golf. Oh, I take that back. Our boss flew to Florida and played golf with a telco salesman. He bought a $500,000 cell site that never worked and was out of business before we could give it back to him.
So you are right. Simple minds solve the little problems left by the levels above. The complex problems get solved on the golf course.
Our boss flew to Florida and played golf with a telco salesman. He bought a $500,000 cell site that never worked and was out of business before we could give it back to him.
Was that cell a U.S. brand company or foreign?
Haven't heard Penske mentioned in a while on Edmunds boards. Didn't or doesn't he have some ties to GM? It seems that Roger very astute in building his corporation and he knows quite a bit about cars/trucks. If Wagoner and his management were to resign and Penske take over, we could believe from Roger that a taxpayer loan to GM would have a decent chance of payback. Penske has been a winner in everything he does going back 40+ years as a race car driver. Penske an ultimate car guy and executive. Roger might not want to deal with union and legacy mess. Doesn't he hold some GM dealerships?
Another guy that might work out is the FedEx founder, chairman. Very innovative and has experience with global logistics.
US brand. Made in America, Plexsys. They had a quite a few sites and we had some of the early stuff. The latest was not supported very well and we never got the last site up and running. Ended up with Nortel that we should have bought in the first place. Cost us a bunch just to haul it 700 miles south to the dump.
I think Penske has plenty with his truck rental business.
I don't think there is a good way out of the mess GM is in. Just read that GM wanted Chrysler for the $10 billion they have in cash. Problem is they are in debt for $9 billion. So GM would have gotten screwed borrowing $10 billion to buy Chrysler from Cerberus. It also sounds like GM and Chrysler owe the UAW $17 billion for the health care program. Where is that money coming from. One article says that GM was in debt to the tune of $300 billion in 2005. They had $120 billion in cash. Now they are broke and how much do they still owe?
I like the simple life sitting up here on my deck watching the humming birds feed blogging with you all. So I will pass on taking that CEO job at GM. Beautiful day, 85 degrees and clear. I can see Mt San Jacinto that is about 70 miles North of me.
One article says that GM was in debt to the tune of $300 billion in 2005. They had $120 billion in cash. Now they are broke and how much do they still owe?
I read earlier this week that their debts are in the $600 billions. With no money in the bank and no annual profits in almost five years. There is just NO WAY taxpayers should "loan" this company anything. What a farce it would be even to call it a loan.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't think there is a good way out of the mess GM is in
Agreed. Their best option (from their point of view) is more loan money from U$. That will string them along as long as they get more infusions, like a crack addict. But sooner or later they die or massively reform.
Comments
That would be over and above any cuts that would be mandated by the bankruptcy courts.
Regards,
OW
What would be wrong with the UAW leadership going to Congress and saying we will take a voluntary across the board cut in wages and benefits that bring us in line with the competition? Our retirees will go onto Medicare that they paid into and pay their own supplemental coverage. That in lieu of GM going into Chapter 11 which could have a much worse affect on the UAW members & retirees.
Absolutely nothing. If that's their will, then so be it.
Despite the press going on I fully expect all of the BIg 3 to be around on January 20 when they will get a good hearing.
I'm still on the fence about bailout. I could get behind it under the right conditions.
GM is a Mess but We Still Need to Bail GM out Now (Business 2.0 Press)
It's also a way to force any organization to make the changes necessary to become profitable again. It's an incentive to run your business right. As I said pay the lower-paid people first, as they are closer to the edge. The execs. get paid last, as they need to be forced to make change.
They need to make cost-cuts not next year, or in 2010, they need them TODAY. They need to cut people without paying $250,000 per employee when they leave. Today! They won't though because they expect it to be pretty much "business as usual" because they have coerced and convinced fools that GM (or the Big3) is too big to fail, and that the taxpayers now need to write an endless series of blank checks to keep the system going.
The math is no where near close! Even if GM and all its suppliers accounted for the entire US economy, if they only were out of work 3 months, the GDP would have only dropped 1/4.
Maybe you want to go to a government website and check the GDP for 1998. I'm afraid this article is another bit of misinformation - through the financial jargon being used(?) - to sway public opinion.
Have you went out and purchased a new Big3 vehicle in the last couple of months? or are you seriously shopping for one now?
Have you transferred any $ from savings, CD's or mutual funds and bought Big3 stock? or their bonds?
If not please tell us why you're not personally willing to help or invest in them? And why isn't the rest of the public who wants the tax-payer to provide the $, helping the Big3 similarly. There are 300M people in this country, why can't the Big3 get enough money and sales from the population?
Here's an idea that would cost the governement nothing. Why don't they setup an account at each bank and brokerage firm, so that you supporters could easily transfer your $ (CD's, 401K ...)into a Big3 funding account, and then when they start making lots of $, you'll be rich!
Is it because we know down deep that this is just a Money-Grab to keep a failing operation alive a little longer, and enrich everyone in the GM network for a while longer? And everyone who make $10/hr, $15/hr, or $20/hr many with no health benefits or pensions is supposed to fund this?!! :mad: :mad:
"each week the United Auto Workers, who walked off the job at GM Monday, remain on strike reduces gross domestic product by 0.3%." WSJ
2. Assemblies that repeatedly fail (ex. Opti-Spark, steering locks ) are replaced within one model year with a unit that works.
3. Quality is not job one....Quality is the only job.
4. Significant wage and salary reductions across the board.
5. Hire designers who can actually draw enticing and exciting vehicles.
6. A government overseer (recommending Lee Iacocca) who makes sure the execs 'cut the fat' and 'cut the crap' and get their companies running efficiently
WheelMan
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If a company I work for fails, I get a new job. Period.
I placed my vote by buying a Honda CR-V this week. Planning for the boomerang in gas prices.
Regards,
OW
Exactly. But there are certain occupations where they look at you like you're trying to smash their holiest of relics, if you suggest they try some other career. Policemen, firemen, autoworkers and other union workers are definitely at the head of occupations where you'll find this death-grip on their occupation.
It's a combination of: 1) pretty good $ and benefits compared to what else they may be qualified for, and 2) not having any idea of what else they might do.
The upper management of the Big3 however would love these loans and bailouts, as it buys them time to find their next job, and maybe the bailout gives their stock options some value before leaving (or makes Cerberus's sale of Chrysler easier and more valuable).
WheelMan
Obama considering an 'Auto Czar' (Straightline)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As I said, if Iacocca still has his game going he'd be as good as you can get.
ABC News' Z. Byron Wolf Reports from Capitol Hill: An architect of the original bailout bill said Thursday Democrats lack the votes to pass bill giving auto companies a piece of the $700 billion bailout pie next week.
"I want to help them if we can, but I'm not going to give anyone a blank check, so we're going to try and do something if we can next week. I don't think the votes are there. Candidly, I don't think we have the votes to get that done. With no big change between now and next Wednesday, I'm skeptical," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., who chairs the Senate Banking Committee.
Even after January, Democrats will have to gain some Republican support in the Senate to pass a new rescue package for the automakers -- and that is looking less likely.
Republicans worry that every time Congress passes a rescue package for a new industry, others will line up to create a bailout soup kitchen line.
I wonder if I can get a Corvette at 35% off around January. I would think banks will be reluctant to finance anyone with less than 30% down. They don't want a bunch of repo cars to go with their foreclosed homes.
A monster not to be overcome and that may not be described, Cerberus who eats raw flesh, the brazen-voiced hound of Hades, fifty-headed, relentless and strong.
Hesiod, Theogony 310
I wouldn't mind if he brought in an industry veteran to ADVISE him, but not someone who would have any control over the actual disbursement of funds.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yup, we should just hand over 25, 50, (why not make it 100 billion :dr evil snicker:) bucks to a failing company who refuses to change the ways that got them in to this mess
link title
and hope that this company that has been in a massive, mis-managed, 35 year tailspin can all of a sudden find success with future products (that fall under the same tagline we've been hearing for those same decades "just wait till next year..." :mad: ) and start making money again while the economy is in the proverbial crapper. I think we'll have a better chance of seeing a Led Zepplin reuinion tour with the original lineup...
To me, it would be the equivalent of a 30 second "timeout" in the corner of a classroom. :mad:
"I don't think it'd be a very a smart move...Our job is to make sure we have the best management team to run GM. It's not clear to me what purpose would be served by resignation."
Is this guy joking or what? What an arrogant, ignorant...I can't say what I want to say so I'll leave it at that. The way to have the best management team at GM is to remove him and his team. IF they get the money they'll rush fuel-efficient vehicles to market. With an attitude like that, let 'em cook.
Clueless is the term I would use to describe GM management. Here is a recent story on the vapor Volt they are banking on saving the company.
GM's Chevy Volt electric car is said to be on track for its late 2010 delivery date, but there might be a problem or two with the batteries. The nearly 300 lithium ion batteries will be strapped together in a tight group between the seats, and while GM engineers are confident the individual batteries work, they're not sure how long they'll last or if they'll overheat when they work together in a pack.
GM has also not decided if the batteries will be made in the U.S., or in Asia, where battery tech is more advanced, said GM chief Rick Wagoner in Washington yesterday. He was visiting the nation's capitol, seeking $25 billion in loans from the U.S. government to help his company build advanced-tech vehicles (might as well get while the getting's good, eh Rick?).
Just what I want sitting next to me cruising down the Interstate at 75 MPH, 300 little fire bombs. What's that smell dear? They don't know if the batteries will come from the US or Asia? Don't know how long they will last or how much they will cost. They think they will lose money at $40k a pop. What do they plan to build that will pay back our $25 billion in tax dollars?
Until I heard Wagoner really trying to justify himself I could have bought into leaving him in charge. Forget it. He doesn't understand what he's up against. Time to clean house.
Not only that Lutz has already conceded that Toyota will beat them to market with the Plug-in Prius. Knowing how Toyota works they will end up getting all the Tax credits before Chevy gets their Volt out the door.
Now the Captains of Industry are blamed by the same quality of people.
If the finger pointers of today were so smart, why haven't they been where the leaders they despise are today?
Those who sound off by moaning and groaning are reactors, not proactors.
What is the vision of the complainers? Anybody can have 20/20 hindsight..
Simple minds do not solve complex issues and problems. They just [non-permissible content removed].
Current management is so tied into having a ton of present structure included in any future GM. They have to go.
The simplest of minds blindly defer to credibility-free authority....
The simplest of minds embrace the cowardly arrogance of said captains, calling those wronged by executive excess "whiners" while failing to produce anything "proactive" or any solutions themselves...
:sick:
That's exactly why he needs to go.
Toyota came out with a car that cost around the low $20's, had reasonable space inside, had at least reasonable performance, and got 45-50 mph. So GM decided to leapfrog Toyota. Their vehicle is going to go 40 whole miles on a six hour charge and cost $25-$40K, with government tax credits(=your money and my money). Toyota's business model works, GM's doesn't. It's lunacy. Wagoner and the top brass need to go. GM as it now stands is a failed business model and will never be successful without massive changes.
And pay the taxes. That is why we [non-permissible content removed] :sick: Although it does seem to me that we were sold a lot of expensive Telco gear that was far from trouble free. I can remember staying up long hours trying to find the bugs left by over paid engineers. Hard to know what to [non-permissible content removed] about with the upper management. They did little but fly to seminars and play golf. Hard to screw anything up from several 1000 miles away playing golf. Oh, I take that back. Our boss flew to Florida and played golf with a telco salesman. He bought a $500,000 cell site that never worked and was out of business before we could give it back to him.
So you are right. Simple minds solve the little problems left by the levels above. The complex problems get solved on the golf course.
Was that cell a U.S. brand company or foreign?
Haven't heard Penske mentioned in a while on Edmunds boards. Didn't or doesn't he have some ties to GM? It seems that Roger very astute in building his corporation and he knows quite a bit about cars/trucks. If Wagoner and his management were to resign and Penske take over, we could believe from Roger that a taxpayer loan to GM would have a decent chance of payback. Penske has been a winner in everything he does going back 40+ years as a race car driver. Penske an ultimate car guy and executive. Roger might not want to deal with union and legacy mess. Doesn't he hold some GM dealerships?
Another guy that might work out is the FedEx founder, chairman. Very innovative and has experience with global logistics.
US brand. Made in America, Plexsys. They had a quite a few sites and we had some of the early stuff. The latest was not supported very well and we never got the last site up and running. Ended up with Nortel that we should have bought in the first place. Cost us a bunch just to haul it 700 miles south to the dump.
I think Penske has plenty with his truck rental business.
I don't think there is a good way out of the mess GM is in. Just read that GM wanted Chrysler for the $10 billion they have in cash. Problem is they are in debt for $9 billion. So GM would have gotten screwed borrowing $10 billion to buy Chrysler from Cerberus. It also sounds like GM and Chrysler owe the UAW $17 billion for the health care program. Where is that money coming from. One article says that GM was in debt to the tune of $300 billion in 2005. They had $120 billion in cash. Now they are broke and how much do they still owe?
I like the simple life sitting up here on my deck watching the humming birds feed blogging with you all. So I will pass on taking that CEO job at GM. Beautiful day, 85 degrees and clear. I can see Mt San Jacinto that is about 70 miles North of me.
I read earlier this week that their debts are in the $600 billions. With no money in the bank and no annual profits in almost five years. There is just NO WAY taxpayers should "loan" this company anything. What a farce it would be even to call it a loan.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Agreed. Their best option (from their point of view) is more loan money from U$. That will string them along as long as they get more infusions, like a crack addict. But sooner or later they die or massively reform.