I wrote earlier about a problem with my headrests on the NB that wouldn't set at a fixed height and that would easily slide down into their sockets. Well, I went to my dealer and they fixed the problem by replacing the left headrest socket - the one with the spring. Wow, the new one is really much stiffer; it goes click, click, when you move the headrest up or down and it really holds the headrest at the desired height. It's a different lot, I suppose, from the one they used when assembling the car - mine was assembled in July.
To Dana, I'm not sure I understand what you mean, when you say the center console is showing premature wear. Is it something superficial that could be taken care of by drowning the dashboard into some Armor All, or is your console coming apart in pieces like the San Andreas fault? I did experience some cheap squeeks inside my dashboard, especially when going over bumps and turning the cool A/C on, but they seem to wear off with mileage - or is it me getting used to them? Anyway, I'd appreciate if you could keep me in touch with the solution your dealer will come up with for this premature wear of the console.
laturj, i also have a black bug and try to keep it clean. the best car cleaning products i have found so far are the zaino line, only available by mail order. my bug looks incredibly shiny, even with a light coat of street dirt on it!! check out the ongoing discussion on car waxes/paint protectants in smart shopper, topic 411. with the advice from that forum, my paint feels smooth and looks "wet" all the time!
mudflaps are a great idea! i'll be watching to see if anyone finds some.
robert, thanks for the "headrest socket" info. when i go in for my 5000 mile check, i'll have the dealer replace those.
carlady, when are those "new car surveys" coming out? seems like you will have plenty of participants!
Yes, slchan, we'll definitely have plenty of participants. :-) And thanks for all the info you've provided.
Dana, let the record show that the carlady review of the New Beetle (see Note #30 in this topic) cited concerns about how well the interior would hold up to wear. Have you had a chance to mention this to your dealer?
The shiny surface on center console appears to be peeling in two spots, not from wear but probably defective construction. It will be interesting to hear the dealer response when I take it in next Thursday. I'll post the result. Other than that, the plastic top to the gear shift knob with R-1-2-3-4-5 just flipped off. Oh well, those things are known to happen to VWs, and the dealer is just a pleasant walk from my workplace. Mechanically its great and I expect it to outlive my '81 Rabbit, who was recently demolished by a driver who blew thru a red light.
This is in response to the search for accessories for the NB in particular mud flaps and car covers. Mid America sells both these items. Contact them at 800 luv bugg or e-mail madbug@madvet.com. Their prices seem reasonable. I would highly suggest to any NB owner to subscribe to some of the VW magazines. European Car for example did a "tuners guide" in the Oct. 98 issue.The guide listed who was selling what from appearance to performance accessories. Hot VW's magazine has a NB project car. Every month they add a new accessory and comment on the car. You can reach them at www.hotvws.com. Both of these magazines are filled with advertisers that have NB appearance and performance accessories.Enjoy your NB.
For those of you who are on some sort of list waiting for a NB, I have some bad news for you.
I spoke with a local used car dealer last night about a NB he had for sale. I asked him where he got it, because it had only 57 miles on it. (It seems as though every NB I see on a used car lot has less than 200 miles.) He said that the local VW dealer was selling almost every NB they get at the used car auction! I guess they can make more money selling the NB to a used car dealer, rather than selling it to someone at retail.
Think about it - the VW dealer's cost is $14336. They can sell it at retail for $15200, giving them a profit of less than $900 (plus holdbacks). Or they can sell it at a used car auction for at least $18000! Then the used car dealer adds his profit, bringing the cost to over $20000!
If you're on a waiting list, you may be on it for a long time! At least until the market cools down a little.
I have been driving my NB for a month now and so far at 2000 miles, so good. I bit the bullet and paid over the sticker price because I needed to get a new car. I had an old beetle f, a vanagon that had very expensive repairs for 5 years, a plymouth voyager for 140,000 and am coming back to a NB, which I hope will be reliable. I like the way it holds the road, the AC and the cruise control. I am puzzled by the hot air which seems to come (over the engine?) when just the fresh air is on. I just can't seem to keep that little shift indicator on and the dealer said to use superglue. thanks for all the comments.
Ok, I have to agree with isellhondas on this one. It wouldn't make sense for a dealer to sell at a used auction when they are already selling them with the extra markup. Also, what advantage would it be for the used car dealer to buy them at these inflated prices, when they have to mark them up even more to make a profit on the car. I know that there's a demand for the car, but are people really willing to pay $20-23K for a NB? That sounds kinda nuts to me.
AS for the hot air when the vent is on, I have the same problem with NB and my 97 passat- i don't think it is direct from outside but goes through engine first, what i do is turn on the air for a second to cool it down, then turn on the vent and as long as i am moving it keeps cool
I agree with Kawi, I can't believe that people would be willing to pay $20-23k for a NB. Maybe back in April people would have done it but not now. There is no need to. I was at a dealer 4 weeks ago and they had 11-15 NBs that were for sale. That's right, if you wanted one you could have one. At MSRP. The color choice was so so though, red, black, bright blue, white and even a silver (but it had an auto. trans.) Of the bunch 2 were TDI. That's why I went there. I wanted to test drive a TDI. It really is decent, as far as the power goes. But what really impressed me was how quiet it was!! There was a gentleman there who had just finished test driving a TDI. Now get this, he didn't know it. When the sales person told him that he just drove a diesel he could only say " I really didn't know". I don't know if he bought one that day. The bottom line is NBs are out there (well they were 4 weeks ago) call around. Don't rely on your one local dealer. They may not be a high enough volume dealer to get a decent allocation. I live in NJ and these days you can see a NB almost every day. In contrast, I just came back from Arizona and in 10 days I only saw 1 on the road and 1 at a Chevy(!)dealer, oh yeah, the windshield had $21 995 on it!! Unfortunately, they may get it. Given the scarcity of NBs there. To all those that are on long waiting lists, try calling dealers that might have higher volumes. Call VWA find out who the volume dealers are, they might even tell you.
I'm with you Isellhondas! The more I read about these New Beetles, the more I think they aren't worth even MSRP, much less $20K or more! I'm afraid it's going to be a fad item with little actual quality behind it.
I'm curious, what have you been " reading" to make you think that they aren't worth MSRP ? I personally subscribe to about a dozen automotive magazines, and I can't recall any bad reviews. Except for the comment "so-so gas milage", and if memory serves correctly that was from Automobile magazine. I agree with the gas milage comment, and that is the reason that I will not be buying a NB with the 2.0l engine. An EPA Hwy of only 29??? The upcomming 1.8T GLX has an EPA Hwy of 32 plus A LOT more power. I have one on order. I am also looking at the TDI. What do I drive now? A very sweet and very quick turbocharged '95 Honda Civic Coupe Si (yes,it really is an Si) Oh it still delivers 35+ mpg on the hwy @70-75mph.
What have you read Pam? Did you know that Consumer Reports will have their report on the NB in next months issue?
I've been "reading" the posts in this conference. Overall, I'm getting the idea that "little things" aren't what I would want them to be if I paid $16K or more for a car. Rattles, recalls, things falling off (use Super Glue??), poor wear, etc.
I have a question for NB owners. How does the windshield defogger work. That's one big windshield and dashboard. Don't get me wrong, I love the NB and want to get one (if I can talk my wife into it).
Yes, I agree that there are some 'little things' wrong with my NB, but I had the same problems with my Prelude, and the dealer was reluctant to fix them--notably poor-fitting carpeting and moldings. My VW dealer on the other hand has been very accomodating. On Thursday I took my NB in for center console wear and the shift know top (R-1-2-3-4-5) that flipped off. The dealer asked no questions and offered to replace both in a very courteous manner (the parts have to be ordered so I have to make a return visit however).
After 7000 miles I feel my TDI is worth every cent of the $17600 that I paid for it. I certainly recommend it at MSRP but not one cent more (its the principle!). Its almost as fun to drive now as on day one.
I know it's strange, but the last NB on the USED car dealer's lot sold in 2 hours at $23000! 2 to 3 thousand over invoice would be a steal in this area! It's ridiculous!
Since hearing this story, I've seen at least 5 NB's on used car lots and every one of them has had less than 100 miles. Is that just coincidence?
I agree - paying over retail is wrong. I would love a silver NB, but not at these prices.
The defogger on the front windshield is very fast, clears up all moisture immediately. I was worried about the big windshield wipers -they have been very good, in medium downpours. I have not driven in a heavy downpour yet. I have white silk daisies in the vase, supplied by the dealer. I was a little self conscious about the flowers at first, but now I think they belong in the car. I paid $19,000 for mine.
Hi - I'm writing at the request of Carlady. Sold my silver NB . . . .auto, CD changer; convenience, sport . . .for $16,500 to a Benz dealershiip. Traded for a '99 CLK320 (coupe). Loved, loved, loved the NB . . but . . .smell of gas at odd time made me nervous; shaking at high speeds; and the increasing mismatch of the silver paint . . . .felt it was time to say farewell. I paid MSRP for the NB in March . . . .the first delivery. Good luck to all . . . . . . 90210 Pete
Yes, when I read Peterun's email, I thought he ought to share his story with our users. Peterun was an early NB owner who graciously shared his new purchase experience with us.
For more New Beetle fun and games, check out the September portion of the Edmunds New Beetle Long Term Test Drive.
I'm sure you'll enjoy the adventures of our intrepid Town Hall guru, Nancie Meng as she discovers what happens if you put unleaded fuel in a diesel automobile. Ouch!
I just read back through Peterun's story and I'm stunned that he sold the car!! What happened??? Smell of gasoline? Shaking at high speeds? Mismatch of silver paint? Peterun, if you're still here, can you give us some more details?
I'm wondering if this is what's going to happen to other New Beetle owners. What a terrible disappointment!
You mean they'll have oil leaks, dead A/C, disintegrating trim and door handles that come off in your hand like my 62k mile Integra has? Or maybe they'll need new front calipers like my old Civic did at 36000 miles.
Nope, I would not call my car a lemon. I bought it on whim . . as a third car. It took me back to a very special part of my yourth. And I truly loved it. The sporadic smell of gasoline inside the cabin made me very nervous. The shaking at high speeds, mainly when applying the brakes was either a rotor or a bushing problem. And the mismatch of silve paint . . is a problem VW of North America acknowledges. I bought the car for recreation . . not to be a guinea pig in solving the initial problems. Figure it this way . . .when my service department manager knows me on a first name basis . . .it's time to move on. I'm sure all of this could be corrected . . if I was tenacious enough. I'm not. Also figured I could get most of my $$$ back prior to release of the '99's. Plus, the CLK looked mighty good to me. And it runs like a champ so far. So . . . . good luck to all. Pete in 90210
Hondas are far from perfect. They are good cars but not perfect. My Honda experience had me knowing the service manager by his first name and it also had me writing letters to Honda.
What was wrong? How about the a/c condenser drain line not being hooked up!!! Where did the condensation go ? How about into the car!! The carpets got soaked and then I had the wonderful smell of mildew. When I asked for new carpet the dealer said NO. They were horrible to deal with. I had to fight to get the problem fixed, at first they accused me of leaving my windows open in the rain. They didn't believ me when I TOLD THEM what the problem was. Letters to Honda finally resulted in new carpet and a reconnected drain line. Incidentley, I ended up re-installing the carpet myself since the dealer did such a poor job. Just a little footnote, I was told that if the floor ever developed a rust problem, I wasn't covered!
Another problem, and as it turned out every Civic Coupe on the lot had the same problem, the trunk sat higher on the right side than the left. Why ?? It was slightly twisted, this caused the paint to crack on the underside and go figure there was some rust. I saw this when I picked the car up. Off to the paint shop!! I wonder if they ever fixed the other cars?
Hondas aren't perfect and VWs made from 89-95 ( I owned both an 89 and 95 Golf) aren't perfect. Personally, I think that Vw has done a good job with the NB. There have been NO mandated recalls. The one recall back in the spring was a volontary recall initiated by VW and it only affected approx. 9000 cars. Should I bother to get into the details about the Honda ECU code suppression issue? That will be a HUGE recall. Not to mention the $12.5 million fine. If anyone wants the details see Consumers Reports August 98 issue.
Isellhondas and Pam, Hondas are decent cars but there is one thing that they will NEVER have over the New Beetle and that's CHARACTER and the ability to make people smile.
Peterrun left out what I consider an important detail! He had the use of the world's biggest people magnet for 6 fun months for..... drum roll please..... $500.00. Yep, that was the difference between his purchase price and his resale price.
As others have said, no one manufacturer has everything. Not every car is as robust as one would hope. Everything is a trade-off and that's why it's important to know you matters most to *you* when you plunk down that pile of cash.
And the general rule of thumb might still prevail; whenever possible, don't buy the first year of any new model. ;-)
Does anyone know where the oil filter is on the TDI? I found the oil pan drain bolt after removing the bottom plastic cover. There's 1100 miles on the car and I don't think it's a good idea to wait until 5000 miles to change the oil at the dealer when the next 4000 will be city driving. By the way, we got 48 mpg this week after picking up the car (at retail).
Hmmm, eric9, I can't help you on the location of the oil filter but I'd like to offer just the tiniest caution about DIY maintenance, especially if you aren't sure where all the parts are. Why not stop into a dealer and ask them to show you where everything is? And perhaps discuss with them the oil change you contemplate? New cars often come with special additives and conditioners in the oil that assist during those first important months and miles. And most cars made today can easily go 6000 miles without an oil change in the city or on the highway. I'd get a second opinion.
BTW, great mileage! 48mpg on the first 1000 miles is terrific!
I'll second what carlady just said. From what I've heard in other conferences here on Edmunds, the VW factory oil *IS* a special blend to help break in the engine. Changing it early can actually shorten your engine life by depriving it of the special ingredients they use for the break-in period.
I'm not sure why you included me in your rebuttal. I only wanted more details about why Peterun sold his NB.
I just feel bad for all the people who have bought the NB who may be disappointed and have to sell it back. I think Volkswagen needs to really fine tune this car before it will be worthy of the selling price. They CAN do it, but WILL they? Building the cars in Mexico probably isn't the best road to a quality automobile. But I'm sure the labor there is quite cheap, so VW is able to keep more of the money they get from over-pricing the car.
If you call "character" an odd-looking car that may or may not be reliable, then that's up to you. Hondas are way better than decent. They're probably the best car you can buy in the price range. And my little hatchback DOES make me smile!! It makes me VERY happy to know that I've bought a really good car for less than $10K. And I know I'll be able to keep it for 2 years, 5 years, or 10 years and it'll STILL be a good car.
It's too bad that you had a bad experience with your Honda. I guess it has to happen sometime to someone. But it's definitely not the norm.
Pinhead's not the only one who's had less than satisfying experiences with Honda (see post 344).
When comparing price, remember that a NB is equipped comparably to an EX coupe, which happens to list for over $15k.
The Civic is not the best car if you value safety. Bop on over to the IIHS collision results (look around at www.hwysafety.org), you'll find that the NB is far and away the safest small car in a serious frontal crash, and the cheapest to repair after a minor fender-bender. The standard side air bags (unavailable on any Civic) are a good thing too.
I know all about the NB's safety rating. But the Civic comes in right behind it. Considering the things that have been happening to the NB's, I sure HOPE the safety equipment actually works when it's needed.
Pam, Why are you constantly bashing the NB? If it isn't for you, so be it. Why all the negativity? Have you actually spent any time in one? Do you personally know a NB owner?
The New Beetle was the most exciting thing I had seen come along in a long time. Lots and lots of people got excited - myself included. I ran right down to the dealer to look at it and check the price. I did all kinds of research on the safety, etc. of the car. I had actually decided to put down my $500 deposit and get on the waiting list for 6 months.
Then I drove it. I was totally unimpressed. It wasn't comfortable to me. It didn't have the power I wanted. It felt cramped inside. The engine sounded funny to my ears. So I made the decision to stick with something I know and trust, which is a Honda.
I've continued reading the posts in this conference and noticed what seems to be a lot of "little problems" with the NB. At least it seemed like a lot to me. I'm not used to anything at all going wrong with my Honda. Sure, the NB is unique looking and gets great safety ratings. But I was just disappointed in the car in general from what I've read here. Understand, the owners aren't actually complaining about the car - they seem perfectly willing to make trips to the dealer to get these things fixed. It's strictly MY perception of the car.
I've come to the conclusion that I did the right thing by not buying the NB - at least until VW can put some more quality into the construction of it. I'm afraid that once the novelty wears off, the owners might be left with a car that doesn't stand the test of time.
My number one priority has to be a good, reliable car. Unfortunately, I don't think the New Beetle is it. I personally can't afford to spend money on a car just for it's character. If the time ever comes when Volkswagen can make the NB as reliable as my Honda, then I will reconsider my views. I really don't want to have to make several trips to the dealer if I don't have to.
Personally, I'm disappointed that the NB wasn't everything that I had hoped it would be. And I feel bad for anyone else who might disappointed in it. I feel especially bad for Peterun, who sold his car after only a few months.
Pam, I own a Honda. But I grew up with VW's and have owned quite a few of them. The NB makes me smile every time I see one. I thought that this discussion group was for fans of the NB? There must be more fans out there, after all VW built the car because of public demand. When is the last time an automaker actually did that?? I would like to here from NB owners about their experiences with the car. I would like to hear both the good and the bad but from the people that actually own them.
I don't think this conference has limitations on who may or may not participate. I also don't need to own a NB to have or express my opinion. It's called "freedom of speech".
As far as Volkswagen making the car because of "public demand" - I'm sure they also considered "profit". A lot of people are spending a lot of money on a car that makes them smile. Fine. I'm just afraid my smile would fade a little more each time I had to take it into the dealer to fix something silly.
Why do you have such a problem with negative comments about the NB when you make so many negative comments about Hondas? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
The purpose of this discussion area is to discuss the Volkswagon New Beetle. It is not a discussion about the New Beetle versus the Honda Civic or Volkswagon versus Honda. If you want to start a topic comparing the NB and the Civic, you are welcome to do so. This is not that discussion.
I think much of this to & fro is explained by what I have said in many discussions on many other topics. The right car for you is the right car for *you.* Just because a car is not right for you, it does not necessarily follow that it is wrong for others. Just because a car is right for you, it does not necessarily follow that it is right for everyone.
Pam2, I think you said it best when you said, "My number one priority has to be a good, reliable car. Unfortunately, I don't think the New Beetle is it." And that's fine. Most people buying the NB are buying it for the fun and the flash as well as the fact that it is a VW, wherever it is made. Heck, for Peterun, it was his *third* car which he admittedly bought as a toy. So, while you may feel may feel sorry for him, I think he had a great time on $500 bucks. :-)
My thanks to everyone for such enthusiastic participation.
Comments
To Dana, I'm not sure I understand what you mean, when you say the center console is showing premature wear. Is it something superficial that could be taken care of by drowning the dashboard into some Armor All, or is your console coming apart in pieces like the San Andreas fault? I did experience some cheap squeeks inside my dashboard, especially when going over bumps and turning the cool A/C on, but they seem to wear off with mileage - or is it me getting used to them? Anyway, I'd appreciate if you could keep me in touch with the solution your dealer will come up with for this premature wear of the console.
Good luck,
Robert
i also have a black bug and try to keep it clean. the best car cleaning products i have found so far are the zaino line, only available by mail order. my bug looks incredibly shiny, even with a light coat of street dirt on it!! check out the ongoing discussion on car waxes/paint protectants in smart shopper, topic 411. with the advice from that forum, my paint feels smooth and looks "wet" all the time!
mudflaps are a great idea! i'll be watching to see if anyone finds some.
robert,
thanks for the "headrest socket" info. when i go in for my 5000 mile check, i'll have the dealer replace those.
carlady,
when are those "new car surveys" coming out? seems like you will have plenty of participants!
Dana, let the record show that the carlady review of the New Beetle (see Note #30 in this topic) cited concerns about how well the interior would hold up to wear. Have you had a chance to mention this to your dealer?
carlady/host
- Dana
;-)))
carlady/host
I spoke with a local used car dealer last night about a NB he had for sale. I asked him where he got it, because it had only 57 miles on it. (It seems as though every NB I see on a used car lot has less than 200 miles.) He said that the local VW dealer was selling almost every NB they get at the used car auction! I guess they can make more money selling the NB to a used car dealer, rather than selling it to someone at retail.
Think about it - the VW dealer's cost is $14336. They can sell it at retail for $15200, giving them a profit of less than $900 (plus holdbacks). Or they can sell it at a used car auction for at least $18000! Then the used car dealer adds his profit, bringing the cost to over $20000!
If you're on a waiting list, you may be on it for a long time! At least until the market cools down a little.
Sorry!
This makes no sense. Why bother with an auction?
Most dealers are simply marking the cars up 2 to 3 thousand dollars over MSRP. Sometimes more.
Some people will think they are a good value at this price and belly up to the bar.
Invoice Buyers...Sorry, won't work now but maybe in a couple of years when the frenzy dies down.
It wouldn't make sense for a dealer to sell at a used auction when they are already selling them with the extra markup. Also, what advantage would it be for the used car dealer to buy them at these inflated prices, when they have to mark them up even more to make a profit on the car. I know that there's a demand for the car, but are people really willing to pay $20-23K for a NB? That sounds kinda nuts to me.
Pam
I'm curious, what have you been " reading" to make you think that they aren't worth MSRP ? I personally subscribe to about a dozen automotive magazines, and I can't recall any bad reviews. Except for the comment "so-so gas milage", and if memory serves correctly that was from Automobile magazine. I agree with the gas milage comment, and that is the reason that I will not be buying a NB with the 2.0l engine. An EPA Hwy of only 29??? The upcomming 1.8T GLX has an EPA Hwy of 32 plus A LOT more power. I have one on order. I am also looking at the TDI. What do I drive now? A very sweet and very quick turbocharged '95 Honda Civic Coupe Si (yes,it really is an Si) Oh it still delivers 35+ mpg on the hwy @70-75mph.
What have you read Pam? Did you know that Consumer Reports will have their report on the NB in next months issue?
Think long term reliability, then decide.
I've been "reading" the posts in this conference. Overall, I'm getting the idea that "little things" aren't what I would want them to be if I paid $16K or more for a car. Rattles, recalls, things falling off (use Super Glue??), poor wear, etc.
Pam
NB owners and others, please tell us what's in your budvase?
carlady/host
windshield defogger work. That's one big windshield and dashboard. Don't get me wrong, I love the NB and want to get one (if I can talk my wife into it).
After 7000 miles I feel my TDI is worth every cent of the $17600 that I paid for it. I certainly recommend it at MSRP but not one cent more (its the principle!). Its almost as fun to drive now as on day one.
- Dana
Since hearing this story, I've seen at least 5 NB's on used car lots and every one of them has had less than 100 miles. Is that just coincidence?
I agree - paying over retail is wrong. I would love a silver NB, but not at these prices.
I guess I'll have to wait until spring...
What part of the country do you live in?
Pinhead
I'm in Michigan. It's seems as though the NB craze is still going strong here!
For more New Beetle fun and games, check out the September portion of the Edmunds New Beetle Long Term Test Drive.
I'm sure you'll enjoy the adventures of our intrepid Town Hall guru, Nancie Meng as she discovers what happens if you put unleaded fuel in a diesel automobile. Ouch!
carlady/host
I'm wondering if this is what's going to happen to other New Beetle owners. What a terrible disappointment!
Pam
Wait until these things get 100,000 miles or so on them....
Don't blast me too bad as I just couldn't resist
Hondas are far from perfect. They are good cars but not perfect. My Honda experience had me knowing the service manager by his first name and it also had me writing letters to Honda.
What was wrong? How about the a/c condenser drain line not being hooked up!!! Where did the condensation go ? How about into the car!! The carpets got soaked and then I had the wonderful smell of mildew. When I asked for new carpet the dealer said NO. They were horrible to deal with. I had to fight to get the problem fixed, at first they accused me of leaving my windows open in the rain. They didn't believ me when I TOLD THEM what the problem was. Letters to Honda finally resulted in new carpet and a reconnected drain line. Incidentley, I ended up re-installing the carpet myself since the dealer did such a poor job. Just a little footnote, I was told that if the floor ever developed a rust problem, I wasn't covered!
Another problem, and as it turned out every Civic Coupe on the lot had the same problem, the trunk sat higher on the right side than the left. Why ??
It was slightly twisted, this caused the paint to crack on the underside and go figure there was some rust. I saw this when I picked the car up. Off to the paint shop!! I wonder if they ever fixed the other cars?
Hondas aren't perfect and VWs made from 89-95 ( I owned both an 89 and 95 Golf) aren't perfect. Personally, I think that Vw has done a good job with the NB. There have been NO mandated recalls. The one recall back in the spring was a volontary recall initiated by VW and it only affected approx. 9000 cars. Should I bother to get into the details about the Honda ECU code suppression issue? That will be a HUGE recall. Not to mention the $12.5 million fine. If anyone wants the details see Consumers Reports August 98 issue.
Isellhondas and Pam, Hondas are decent cars but there is one thing that they will NEVER have over the New Beetle and that's CHARACTER and the ability to make people smile.
Pinhead
As others have said, no one manufacturer has everything. Not every car is as robust as one would hope. Everything is a trade-off and that's why it's important to know you matters most to *you* when you plunk down that pile of cash.
And the general rule of thumb might still prevail; whenever possible, don't buy the first year of any new model. ;-)
carlady/host
Your response was EXACTLY as I expected. And, how thoughtful for you to throw in the subject of that dumb recall.
I just knew that somebody would come back and talk about the AFWUL Honda they once owned or heard about.
That's why the pot needed to be stirred!
BTW, great mileage! 48mpg on the first 1000 miles is terrific!
carlady/host
I'll second what carlady just said. From what I've heard in other conferences here on Edmunds, the VW factory oil *IS* a special blend to help break in the engine. Changing it early can actually shorten your engine life by depriving it of the special ingredients they use for the break-in period.
--Mike
Also forgot to tell you your routine maintanance is covered for the first 24K miles. You get free oil changes!
--Mike
I'm not sure why you included me in your rebuttal. I only wanted more details about why Peterun sold his NB.
I just feel bad for all the people who have bought the NB who may be disappointed and have to sell it back. I think Volkswagen needs to really fine tune this car before it will be worthy of the selling price. They CAN do it, but WILL they? Building the cars in Mexico probably isn't the best road to a quality automobile. But I'm sure the labor there is quite cheap, so VW is able to keep more of the money they get from over-pricing the car.
If you call "character" an odd-looking car that may or may not be reliable, then that's up to you. Hondas are way better than decent. They're probably the best car you can buy in the price range. And my little hatchback DOES make me smile!! It makes me VERY happy to know that I've bought a really good car for less than $10K. And I know I'll be able to keep it for 2 years, 5 years, or 10 years and it'll STILL be a good car.
It's too bad that you had a bad experience with your Honda. I guess it has to happen sometime to someone. But it's definitely not the norm.
Pam
When comparing price, remember that a NB is equipped comparably to an EX coupe, which happens to list for over $15k.
The Civic is not the best car if you value safety. Bop on over to the IIHS collision results (look around at www.hwysafety.org), you'll find that the NB is far and away the safest small car in a serious frontal crash, and the cheapest to repair after a minor fender-bender. The standard side air bags (unavailable on any Civic) are a good thing too.
The New Beetle was the most exciting thing I had seen come along in a long time. Lots and lots of people got excited - myself included. I ran right down to the dealer to look at it and check the price. I did all kinds of research on the safety, etc. of the car. I had actually decided to put down my $500 deposit and get on the waiting list for 6 months.
Then I drove it. I was totally unimpressed. It wasn't comfortable to me. It didn't have the power I wanted. It felt cramped inside. The engine sounded funny to my ears. So I made the decision to stick with something I know and trust, which is a Honda.
I've continued reading the posts in this conference and noticed what seems to be a lot of "little problems" with the NB. At least it seemed like a lot to me. I'm not used to anything at all going wrong with my Honda. Sure, the NB is unique looking and gets great safety ratings. But I was just disappointed in the car in general from what I've read here. Understand, the owners aren't actually complaining about the car - they seem perfectly willing to make trips to the dealer to get these things fixed. It's strictly MY perception of the car.
I've come to the conclusion that I did the right thing by not buying the NB - at least until VW can put some more quality into the construction of it. I'm afraid that once the novelty wears off, the owners might be left with a car that doesn't stand the test of time.
My number one priority has to be a good, reliable car. Unfortunately, I don't think the New Beetle is it. I personally can't afford to spend money on a car just for it's character. If the time ever comes when Volkswagen can make the NB as reliable as my Honda, then I will reconsider my views. I really don't want to have to make several trips to the dealer if I don't have to.
Personally, I'm disappointed that the NB wasn't everything that I had hoped it would be. And I feel bad for anyone else who might disappointed in it. I feel especially bad for Peterun, who sold his car after only a few months.
Does this make any more sense to you?
I don't think this conference has limitations on who may or may not participate. I also don't need to own a NB to have or express my opinion. It's called "freedom of speech".
As far as Volkswagen making the car because of "public demand" - I'm sure they also considered "profit". A lot of people are spending a lot of money on a car that makes them smile. Fine. I'm just afraid my smile would fade a little more each time I had to take it into the dealer to fix something silly.
Why do you have such a problem with negative comments about the NB when you make so many negative comments about Hondas? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
The purpose of this discussion area is to discuss the Volkswagon New Beetle. It is not a discussion about the New Beetle versus the Honda Civic or Volkswagon versus Honda. If you want to start a topic comparing the NB and the Civic, you are welcome to do so. This is not that discussion.
I think much of this to & fro is explained by what I have said in many discussions on many other topics. The right car for you is the right car for *you.* Just because a car is not right for you, it does not necessarily follow that it is wrong for others. Just because a car is right for you, it does not necessarily follow that it is right for everyone.
Pam2, I think you said it best when you said, "My number one priority has to be a good, reliable car. Unfortunately, I don't think the New Beetle is it." And that's fine. Most people buying the NB are buying it for the fun and the flash as well as the fact that it is a VW, wherever it is made. Heck, for Peterun, it was his *third* car which he admittedly bought as a toy. So, while you may feel may feel sorry for him, I think he had a great time on $500 bucks. :-)
My thanks to everyone for such enthusiastic participation.
carlady/host