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Comments
I guess some people feel superior if they enjoy getting fleeced by some slick street urchin in a suit.
It is not about being an "Expert", but your attitude seems to be suggesting that we customers are too stupid to even know what we want, or anything about a car we want. That's strange coming from a bunch who thinks they know more about the cars than the automakers who actually BUILD and DESIGN the things and the customers who actually DRIVE and LIVE with the things day in and day out.
This is just part of the attitude that I am talking about.
Too bad.
they look pretty good, so we will probably buy there.
the dealership internet contact pointed this out to me.
i didn't realize that initially, since i accessed their inventory through the manufacturer.
Get a load of that arrogance.
Excuse me for being a firm believer in an ethos that says, "You make it, you sell it". That is the best system in the world. Forgive me for not seeing a need for arrogant, crooked, glorified street urchin middlemen in slick suits screwing over both manufacter and customer who do nothing but gum up the works.
This attitude is exactly why I will not shed ONE SINGLE TEAR about the closing of these dealerships. Good riddance say I! At the end of the day, there will STILL be automakers making cars, and there will STILL be customers who want to buy them, so it looks like WE will get the last laugh, while the glorified street urchins in sharp suits go the way of the dodo, so hahahaha! :P :P
There don't seem to be that many Mitsu's up here.
Subaru, on other hand, is all over this city - I see 5 - 10 Outbacks daily, with increasing numbers of Foresters and Tribecas.
That's because in the snow - they go.
We have a lot of winter sports fans in the NW.
The smart Mitsubishi dealers learned several years ago to keep the business afloat selling used cars and servicing all makes. The ones that didn't went out of business WAY before the industry crash last year. Mitsu has been on the ropes for a long time, ever since the 0/0/0 disaster.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
" you and your fellow salesmen buddies"
Have we ever met? Didn't think so.
With your condensending arrogant attitude, it's easy to see why you were mistreated.
You're assuming many of the services that they provide would be available without them, and that everyone has the same level of expertise and interest in cars that you do. Sure it's a jungle out there now, but it would be a wilder jungle without them. Further you personally can do without them because they exist.
A dealership allows you to examine and test drive your various options. Your salesman helps you narrow down your choices and determine what you can really afford. Maybe you can read Edmunds and decide what you want to live with for the next four years, but I don't think my wife or my sister could.... they don't know or care about cars. Somebody would have to help them make an informed decision.
As Voltaire famously said, "If car dealers did not exist, it would be necessary to create them". If there were no car dealerships, then where would you go to look at the cars and where would you go to test drive them? Who would you talk to about the price and arranging the sale. Well, you say, you'd do that with the manufacturer. Well, what's the difference? Ultimately, the only difference to consumer would be to whom you write the check. Even if you negotiate the price on-line, you're still dealing with a salesman - just not in person. Somebody is going to evaluate your trade-in and determine its value. In the end, you're back where you started... you always shop salespeople as well as cars, and having the manufacturers own the dealerships won't change that a bit.
Sure some salespeople are B@st@rds.... and I've encountered them. However, I just let those guys starve and continue shopping till I find a salesperson I can do business with. One theory of mine is that the better the salesperson, the less he has to squeeze out of each deal.... Further, if you build the relationship, the second deal with him (or her) is going to be even easier.
So, yeah , hopefully, the bad business cycle is going to squeeze some of the bad guys out of the business.... but the good guys who have built the relationships with their customers are still going to do fine.....
In internet land, there ain't no relationships..... ever tried telling your PC "Work with me here"....Did it work?
But, not all stores are like that. The sales people in our store come from all walks of life. We have former corporate executives, a retired minister, a former high school teacher, a former police detective and former business owners. These people are well educated professionals. We aren't like the people the poster with a major chip on his shoulder described.
But, there are certainly out there. No doubt about it.
However, no one has a car on the lot I want. I wanted a Nissan 2.5 S Cpe w/ leather, heated sets and all the bells and whistles. The sales man said he had a 4 door he could send to a shop and put the leather in. Mazda said to have leather heated seats and a moonroof they have to send the car to auto world to have moon roof and seats put in and I'd never know the difference. I want factory original build.
Then to top it off Nissan called and said they found one and I would have to pay $500.00 more for them to go get it.No more salesmen this should be an enjoyment buying a car.
Also, I was told dealers only have cars on the lot, that most people buy. :confuse:
So, can you give me some web sites ican go to to get the car I want? I'll drive 150 miles or so.
Meanwhile, anyone notice any dealers closing over the weekend? The rent is due in a couple of days. :shades:
Your salesman helps you narrow down your choices and determine what you can really afford
Salesmen are there for one reason only, to sell you the car the sales manager wants sold today. In 25 years I have never dealt with a salesman that took the time to understand my needs or find me the right car if he did understand them. Time and time again I watched as my friends and family were misled by car salespeople into cars they couldn't afford, or ended up hating because it was not what they went looking for when they visited the lot. Now we have a deal where they do not go near one of those places unless I accompany them.
The oldest cars on the lot and the ones with the highest profit margins are the ones the salesman will steer you towards every time. They certainly don't care AT ALL what you can afford.
As such, and given that the internet age has been in full swing for more than a decade, I believe it is highly incumbent on today's car shoppers to do all the research in advance, and arrive at the dealership with one model and specific options set in mind. Most manufacturer websites will actually help you find the exact model with the exact features you want in your area.
I went one step further with my last purchase, and arranged terms and the exact car over the internet in advance. I brought a check with me for the sale amount when I went to the dealership, test drove the car with the internet/fleet manager, and was out of there inside an hour. I will never again deal with a salesperson. They have never been anything but a drag for me.
To my way of thinking, this represents an avenue to major cost savings for dealers: eliminate all the salespeople and just employ a handful of full-time internet/fleet managers!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have to say it here and now, because of my fresh experience: try an Audi lot.
I have never enjoyed such consistent levels of professionalism, product knowledge and sales skill. Three sampled locally, and all three were superb. These people knew their product well, were into cars, and had obvious training in sales process. They listened, repeated and gained confirmation all along the way. Such a huge contrast from the Lexus lot, where they barely know an IS from an ES, and all the others along the way...
Did that mean when it came time to talk real dollars that they didn't pull the same ol' BS "run it by my manager"? Nope they did that, but the rest of the process was so rewarding, I didn't care.
High marks.
Been there, done that. Sonnen VW/Audi in San Rafael. Saleswoman knew little to nothing about the product beyond the 30-second speech she had been trained to recite when I drove an A3, once again (different saleswoman) when I drove a Rabbit. Both tried to upsell me though, into an A4 Avant the first time (not a chance) and a Jetta GLI the second time (buy a sedan? Blecch. Don't think so). In both cases the upsell vehicles they showed me had clearly been gathering dust for some time.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Excuse YOU.
You don't know me, nor do you know that three Chevy dealers I went to tried to put me in Luminas when I clearly wanted a Caprice. You don't know the time I nearly got into a fistfight with a Saab dealer because he for some reason tried to put me in a 9000 non-Turbo when I wanted a 900 Turbo, you don't know about the two dealers who refused to give me the kind of Silverado I wanted as opposed to what they wanted to sell me, nor do you know about the Acura dealer who tried to shove me into an MDX when I clearly came looking for a TL. Those are just FOUR examples of MANY more I could name over my car buying career. You want me to continue?
Not really. It is obvious to those who are people persons the attitude you represent. When we have the time, we commissioned salesmen, try very hard to work with your kind and believe it or not, we are very successful more often than not..
In my over 40 years of selling, those who developed my patience the most were preachers, teachers, & engineers. Do you fall into one of these three catagories?
You are wished the best in your interpersonal relationships.
..Jetta GLI the second time (buy a sedan? Blecch. Don't think so).
Can I get an amen?
Amen!
Has there been an actual spotting of the car yet?
What are you replacing the ISX with again?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes having the automakers own the dealers would change A LOT. They would NOT put up with their sales representatives acting like obnoxious jerks driving off customers with money in their hands eager for a set of wheels. Think about it!
Factory owned dealers and direct car sales to customers yesterday please.
If you are one of the FEW salesmen who does right by his customers, then I salute you and have no issue with you. But you have to understand that there are far too many of your fellow car salesmen out there who are NOT good guys like you are. It's not your fault that they exist, but nor is it mine.
TTS
And, really, there is no need to continue this discussion.
But...two things.
As I said before, there are a LOT of slimeball car salespeople out there. No question about that.
But, you seem to want to group all of us into that catagory and this just isn't the case.
And I'm sorry but it is my opinion that you DO have a major chip on your shoulder and a condensending attitude towards those of us in the business who work hard to be professionals.
I wasn't there so I really don't know but I can't help but think you just might have brought some if not all of the treatment you received on yourself. The comments you have made here attest to that!
" Rats?"...I rest my case!
This is the attitude I represent. I went into a dealer knowing full well that I wanted a brand new Chevy Caprice 4 door sedan with the 305 V-8. I had researched the car (Being a lifelong car nut helps when you do that), so my mind was made up, I knew about the car, I had money to spend, and was happy to do so. I went into the dealership with a cheerful, freindly attitude.
What happened?
Did I drive out with my new Caprice?
NO.
I had to leave to go find another dealer since this idiot was only interested in puttting me in a Lumina for some bizarre reason, and then hemmed and hawed when it became clear to him that I was not under any circumstances going to buy any Lunina.
What should a have been a pleasent, half-hour to hour experience for me AND this fool (Me getting a new set of wheels, him making a sale) instead turned into two and a half hour ordeal and waste of time.
But according to you, it is my "Attitude", or my "Occupation" that caused this, not the dealer being a major you know what, in combination with the stupid laws making it illegal for automakers to sell cars directly to customers.
Bull. It is not my "Attitude" nor my "Occupation" that has anything to do with it that was the problem. It was/is the fact that power in the car buying process has been placed in the hands of rotten crooks who don't know how to respect and do right by customers, and who feel NO guilt nor shame about it.
Don't worry about my "Interpersonal relationships". Stop evading the issue and acknowledge that I am making valifd points about a broken system that is crying out for fixing.
What car?
Word on the street is delivery to the shop tonight or tomorrow AM. No breath holding here. If they don't get the paperwork complete tomorrow, they're gonna have to eat a sales tax increase, as this is a prix fixe meal.
The topic is where did all the dealerships go?
Dude.
I am not sure it would improve the sales aspect of buying a car. It would prevent the automakers from passing the buck on warranty repairs. Somewhere along the line you will have to deal with another person. I really think you would have better experiences if you followed Nippon and my lead and do all your shopping via email. It eliminates the things you seem to detest about sales people. You know what you want. You email your request and only go in if they have the car and the price you are willing to pay. NO waiting in a cubicle. Get the final price in an email and print it out with the VIN. It does work painlessly.
First of all, the price would be on the window sticker as always, so that takes care of that.
It would be a cold day in hell when I pay the price on a window sticker. That is why you state in your email that they are bidding against other dealers and you will buy from the one that sends you the best price. I would have to be absolutely in love with a car to pay invoice. I cannot ever remember feeling that way about a vehicle since I bought my 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser new. That was a great learning experience as that vehicle was lots of trouble.
As we lose dealerships the problem of finding what you want becomes even tougher. I have ordered from GM, Ford and Dodge to get exactly what I wanted in a truck. I don't think the Asian makers are big on ordering vehicles. VW supposedly will build to order.
Now if they would just have a going out of business sale like an old department store used to have. Discount those boat anchors to make room for a new store. Might get some of us back into the showroom. But till we know it has hit bottom why bother? And maybe Suzuki will have to call it quits and we can pick them up like old Daewos? I have to smile whenever I see a car add anymore. Now they have to smooch our rear pockets a bit. Doesn’t it feel good to be on the other side for a change?
That's the problem. A bell doesn't ring when it happens just like a bell didn't ring when it hit the highest.
How will paying off the highest deficit over the next decade impact the economy?
With cars being so much more durable and reliable in the past 10 years or so, I have to imagine the used car business is a lot more stable.
^^^^^^^
There isn't much more valuable than a 3 year old car that has been maintained properly. With average driving, should have 45,000 to 60,000 miles and thus have another 140,000+ miles of use left. We have so long a memory that 100,000 miles used to be the limit for cars. Now, 200K seems more like the limit. Takes some repairs, sure but minor things. I now have two vehicles with 140,000 miles going strong.
Also, Edmunds could educate people on here to negotiate from the invoice down.Thats because of manufacturers to dealer paybacks.How about a class on how to make car buying not a trip to a dentist and the shrink.
My wife bought a Lexus yesterday and the salesman said sold. There was no manager around. She got
on her cell phone called another dealer in front of me and the salesman and said"I'm at Berlin Motors and this is the price,can you beat it?" The salesman on the other end said not without talking with my manager, she said you do that, we can't do business.
What,I don't get all the showrooms we visited from Friday evening to Sunday were crowded. Toyota, Mazda and Infiniti were jammed.
I see no dealer ships closing if the owner is diversified. Prime Motors sells Ford, Mazda,Mercedes,Lexus,Toyota ,VW and Nissan.I think Hydundai is carrying Ford along with Mazda. Chysler is sunk and so is GM as they keep their good cars across the pond. I'm for no bailout.Some dealers are not dealing so let them go.
That is kind of bizarre. What year was the Caprice you were trying to get? Since you mentioned a Lumina, and a 305, I'm guessing a 1991-93 "bathtub" Caprice? I guess it could've been the 1990 though, which was the last year for the older, boxy style.
One possibility I can think of, for trying to steer you into a Lumina. It wasn't a very popular car when it first came out, so maybe GM or the dealership was offering some kind of heavy incentive to anybody who moved a Lumina? It wasn't hard to sell a Caprice. The older, boxy styles practically sold themselves, and the rounded style, while controversial, was pretty popular its first couple years. The Lumina was a hard sell though, compared to the Taurus, and the Japanese cars that kept getting bigger and more competent.
"Does it matter how hard you work, because there is somebody a little bit above you that has the right to control every decision and every effort you put forward, don't you have a right to be a little bit mad when somebody says hey we're all done?" Stanton asked WWMT-TV. "It's terrible, horrible."
The third fight followed an incident between two salesmen at a pizza restaurant next door.
Wayland Chevrolet blames the shutdown on the downturn in the auto industry and the scheduled closing of General Motors Corp.'s metal stamping factory this year in the Grand Rapids suburb of Wyoming.
I think you said that your wife and her salesperson agreed on a deal but then your wife called another store in front of her salesperson trying to get a better deal?
Is that what happened?
If so, that's about the rudest thing I have ever heard of!
I hope I misread your post.
Re Audi sales numbers: well, they're sort winning an ugly contest right now, aren't they?
As far as the US is concerned, I think whomsoever keeps their footing during this massive adjustment and comes out the other side is going to be sitting very pretty indeed. There will be plenty of pent-up demand for new product, and fewer players competing for it, and those players stand to reap some significant rewards.
If Suzuki checks out I won't miss them in the least. I can't say the same for Mitsu. Mitsu's US execution has been atrocious, but the company has real engineering prowess.
Ski Tour and when I got the bill,I thought I paid for the silverware and plate.
Also, don't you have to put so many miles on the car and ship it home and because it's a gray that doen't meet EPA standards, you have to modify it?
I will say this I skied and worked on the Audi and Peuot tours . We had cars on the east and west coast and they were the best cars I've driven.We never drove them hardly under 80 mph out in Montanna,
Wyoming down to Taos New Mexico and back throgh the deserts of Arizona up the Gun Barrell to Vail.
So you think I should cross pond? :confuse: