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Now that I think about it, I don't think I've seen too many of those types of ads on tv anymore, where they talk about no money, no credit, no problem! These day's it's more along the lines of "lose your job, and we'll make your payments for you/you can turn your car back in/etc". :sick:
"Edmunds.com's Inside Line, like AutoObserver a part of the Edmunds.com organization, reported yesterday that a source at GM indicated the company is likely to announce on Monday that it will fold Pontiac, a name that has been part of the GM empire since 1926."
Edmunds: GM To Hit the Kill Switch on Pontiac
Makes sense though. Really it was either Pontiac or Buick, and they found a real purpose for Buick after all. I felt weepier about Olds, frankly, but only because I owned a '65.
RIP Pontiac.
that may not have been a bad decision from a marketing perspective.
Interestingly enough, in finding a true 21st century identity for Caddy, they freed up Buick to shine in the step down position it was supposed to in the first place. Both make sense now, and could well possibly be even more relevent in the future.
Olds hadn't made sense for a long time, other than brand loyalty. I loved my '65, but my mourning period was brief. Maybe an hour or two. Just way too many other things to buy and drive and love out there when that news hit the wire.
Now, I'd break off Corvette as a brand and umbrella any serious sport offerings under that, and let Chevy be the everyman's car it used to be, a la Honda. That's what I'd do, but I'm kinda crazy that way...
I gotta admit, I missed Olds when they got the can, mainly because it looked like they finally got their product lineup together. Pontiacs were starting to really get too over-the-top and boy-racer, while Buicks were getting to the point that I didn't feel like I was old enough to drive one! I thought Olds, at the time, did a fine job of walking the line between sporty and conservative. I would've picked an Intrigue or Aurora over the Buick or Pontiac equivalents at the time, and while I didn't like the Grand Am, I actually liked the Alero! I even liked the redesigned Olds Bravada.
In retrospect though, I believe those Olds 4.0 V-8's and "Shortstar" 3.5 V-6es could be troublesome and expensive to fix.
I'm sad to see Pontiac go, even though there hasn't been a Pontiac that's really turned me on in ages. The G8, I'll admit, gets a rise out of me, and I did kinda like the final-gen Bonneville, as long as it was a model that wasn't ribbed-n-winged too badly.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dear Pontiac Fans,
Welcome to our world.
Now, quit your whining.
Love,
Plymouth Fans
"All others please use alley entrance"
I don't miss modern Plymouths either. Then again, I don't have the nostalgia connection you do Andre. I'll be supportive of a bro, and be sad for you on both counts!
Now, could somebody please take Mercury out behind the pump house and put two in its ear? Please?
K thx bye.
GM to cut 1,000 low-rated dealerships next year
Jamie LaReau
Automotive News
April 27, 2009 - 4:29 pm ET
DETROIT -- General Motors plans to contact owners of about 1,000 dealerships starting in May to notify them that their franchise agreement will not be renewed in 2010, a GM executive says.
The 1,000 will be part of GM's plan to cut its roster to 3,605 dealerships by 2010, under new restructuring goals released today. GM finished 2008 with 6,246 dealerships.
"There's approximately 1,000 dealers that basically are very poor performing and not adhering to the sales and service agreement," said GM's Mark LaNeve, vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing, in an interview today.
"Those dealers would receive a contact very early on in the process preferably in May that they will not be part of a reinvented GM going forward, and we'll work on a transition."
The contact process excludes Hummer, Saab and Saturn dealers. Those brands are for sale.
To determine which dealerships will be retained, LaNeve says GM is considering a dealership's sales, customer satisfaction scores, amount of working capital, facility standards rating and whether the dealership is dualed with an unapproved brand.
GM's regional representatives are in Detroit this week to sift through that data, LaNeve says.
GM might have to cut more dealers than it outlined today, LaNeve says. "A big variable might be what happens with Ford and Chrysler," he says. "The goal is a competitive dealer body."
Here's how LaNeve sees dealer consolidation shaking out:
• GM will lose hundreds of dealers in the next two years to normal attrition. GM has already lost 200 dealerships in the first quarter. It typically loses that amount in a whole year.
• The sale of Hummer, Saturn and Saab will eliminate about 500 dealerships, LaNeve says. They will not be included in the 1,000 dealerships targeted in May. • GM will provide assistance to the 1,000 dealerships that will not be renewed, but LaNeve declined to be specific.
• GM will work with the surviving dealerships to form consolidations that conform to the automaker's channel strategy of Cadillac, Buick-GMC and Chevrolet over the next 18 months, he said.
In major markets, Chevrolet and Cadillac will be stand-alone channels, GM said in the new restructuring plan. Buick-GMC will stand alone or be aligned with Chevrolet or Cadillac with a "separate sales operation depending on market penetration and real estate costs," GM said.
A GM spokesman said that in big markets there might be some superstores consisting of all four brands and that stores could be realigned to carry three brands.
In mid-sized and small-town markets, GM said, "in many cases Chevrolet and Buick-GMC will be aligned with one dealer operator."
GM will "dramatically lower" the number of Cadillac dealerships it has in small markets.
LaNeve says GM hopes to have the plan in place for dealership consolidation by the end of 2010.
They can set up a big garage behind the White house. :shades:
BO made another big promise like he was on the campaign trail. I would say the Indys will get the work. Just the owner will have to pay and try to collect from Uncle Sam. :sick:
That might kill Cadillac. People that buy that type car do not like driving 200 miles to a dealership for service.
I was sad to see Plymouth go, mainly for the heritage, but by that time it was really a mercy killing. Chrysler had been starving Plymouth of decent products for decades by that time. By the time they pulled the plug, Plymouth was down to the Neon, Prowler, and Voyager. When the "cloud cars" got
redesignedrestyled for 2001, the Breeze got canned.I think the main problem with killing Plymouth though, was that suddenly Chrysler moved downscale. The 2001 Sebring sedan seemed cheapened, compared to the 1995-2000 models. And the PT Cruiser really should have been a Plymouth...indeed was conceived as a Plymouth!
For 2002, Dodge cheapened the base Intrepid, jettisoning such niceties as a tinted windshield, rear sway bar, pop-out cupholder in the console, carpeting on the lower doors, and replacing the cloth on the upper doors with vinyl. I don't know if Chrysler did a similar move with the base Concorde that year or not.
When the RWD 300 came out as a 2005 model, IMO the cheaper models, especially the 2.7, had no business being a Chrysler. Those should have been badged as Plymouths, and perhaps make the Chryslers V-8 only.
For a lot of Mopar enthusiasts, I think Plymouth really "died" in 1989, when the last RWD V-8 Gran Fury rolled off the assembly line. It was mainly a taxi/police car by that time, but it still had a lot of heritage in it. A name that dated to 1956, and an engine/tranny combination that came to symbolize rugged durability for decades (although my '89 Gran Fury copcar chewed up one of the camshaft lobes at 73K miles
When the Gran Fury went away, there was no replacement, and I think right then and there, a lot of people knew that Plymouth wasn't long for this world. Dodge got the Dynasty and Chrysler held onto the New Yorker nameplate, and had some reasonable success with them for a few years.
Once Plymouth went away, I wonder if Chrysler dealers suffered much from losing the Neon? IIRC, many Chrysler dealers started adding Jeep, but I would think that the Neon would have brought in a bunch of entry-level buyers that could have then been swayed into something more expensive and profitable?
1000 cut + 500 in the Saturn/Hummer/Saab network = 1500. They need to cut 2600.
Do they expect the other 1100 to come from attrition? That's a lot of attrition just among GM dealers. In a normal year 1100 is more than the total dealer attrition rate industrywide.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It was my understanding that close to 200 GM dealers have closed already in 2009, which is the amount of dealers that close for an entire year. If the trend continues, this means that 800 or so GM dealers will be gone by the end of the year.
I know there are close to 400 Saturn dealers in the US - they're all gone (or will start selling products from other manufacturers) now that GM has stated that product will stop being built for Saturn after 2009.
Are there standalone Hummer and Saab dealers?
Geez, you would have had to give me some stellar terms to make me invest in a Hummer stand. That always had "one-trick pony" stamped on it, even at its peak. I will shed zero tears for Hummer. Seemed emblematic of most of what was going rancid in America to me.
SAAB is another story, IMO. I just see GM as a diservice there from almost the get go. When did they first offer a Gm V6 in one? Was that '88 or so? Oy. It's not like I was ever in the market for one, but I very much respected what they meant to their niche. Just for the record, the mufflers were still located in the glove compartments, weren't they?
Guess that would depend on the definition of "stand-alone".
Here in Denver, there are two Hummer dealerships, both owned by the same person. One is in the NW suburbs, the other is in the town I live in, about 30 miles south of Denver. Both are part of larger GM dealerships, though the Hummer store here in my town has a separate building that was put up just a few years ago.
Can't imagine how much they're going to lose once Hummer goes away.
Same with the Saturn dealers.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, right next to the oil filter.
Oh crud, I thought that was the air filter! Well that certainly explains a couple/three things...
I am *fairly sure* that Jim Ellis Saab in Marietta (Atlanta) GA is a standalone store. (there are plenty other Jim Ellis brands, though)
My old Saab 99 was the first car where there was something under the hood that I could not figure out what it was at all. Looked like a coffee can painted black. I should have checked. MAybe there was coffee in it.
"Local Chevy dealer closed; now must drive an hour, one way."
ticadoo, "Chevrolet Trailblazer Maintenance and Repair" #571, 30 Apr 2009 6:48 am
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A Nervous Day for Area Chrysler Dealers
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GM moves ahead with dealer cuts, faces growing opposition
Automotive News
May 5, 2009 - 9:53 pm ET
WASHINGTON -- General Motors has started to notify 2,600 dealers of plans to eliminate them, and a dealers group is trying to block the effort by getting elected officials to intervene.
......Meanwhile, a dealers group is mobilizing its 19,000 members to fight the administration's plan for GM.
National Automobile Dealers Association members will be contacting their congressmen, mayors and governors in an attempt to get them to intercede with the White House, said NADA chairman John McEleney.
"It's too abrupt and drastic," McEleney said in an interview. "The concern is in every community across the country. Dealers are one of the principal sources of employment, charitable contributions and tax revenue."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20090505/ANA02/905059961/1203
(registration link)
Darn right they are! And GM (and Ford) dealers seem to be taking the brunt of this thing. Just today a woman at work with a GMC (whatever the Trailblazer clone was, Envoy maybe?) was lamenting that there is no GMC dealer within 50 miles of her any more, where there used to be four or five when she bought the thing five years ago.
I wonder if the NADA effort will bear any fruit.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think ultimately both companies will have to liquidate. The bondholders have dug in. GM's debt is unbelievable. How could they hide all of this from the shareholders? BTW, their common stock is only worth $1.7B and the shareholders are about to get royally screwed.
No the people making GM, Chrysler and even Ford didn’t care about what they were making or there wouldn't have been any Honda, Toyota or Nissan cars in their parking lots. Even car salesmen drove cars other than what they sold quite often.
It isn’t like we can’t get a car of they go bankrupt. There are other manufacturers ready to step in and take the place of the ones that fold. New dealers will replace the old ones and more than likely the person selling the new Chinese mountain flower sedan will be the same guy that sold the Chrysler Town and country a few months ago.
Maybe Bankruptcy is the best thing right now. The slate will be clean and we can start all over and maybe this time we can get a sales staff that doesn’t require four or five people between the customers and a deal. And maybe we can get a few diesels and a EV or two produced before the status quo returns. Maybe not but I can hope.
:shades:
"Moreover, despite the protestations of President Obama and other politicians and players, Bernstein says Chrysler's bankruptcy was a foregone conclusion. It was the only way to decisively and economically terminate the franchise agreements of its 3,200 dealers.
"That's why GM's bankruptcy is a necessity, too," he said."
Chrysler's Politicized Bankruptcy a Warm-Up for GM (AutoObserver)
All they need is an Internet sales person to give you their best price. And a lady with a key cabinet to let you test drive the models. On the whole I would say most car salesmen are worthless and uninformed. If a customer knows more about a given model being sold at the dealership, they should dump the salesman. They are taking up valuable desk space.
I don't know if the UAW has any active members in Idaho, a right to work state. Nothing turns up in a search. So who has influence?
The dealer lobby is huge across the country (just look at how watered down most lemon laws are).
So yeah, I think they are a big millstone on the automakers. You think it's hard to fire a UAW worker, just try jerking someone's franchise.
But I think labor is going to fare much better in bankruptcy court than the dealers are.
The solution we are seeing so many advocate is more and more government intervention and more borrowing from our children to pay for it. We hear, let’s bail out the banks, manufacturers and now some suggest we bail out the dealers. What about the tax payer and their grand children? How many people were upset as we lost most of our tailors in the US or even remember? How about the Shoe industry? Did we scream when the government allowed the electronics industry to go off shore, can we even get a American made TV? And yet they still sell TVs and people still buy shoes and cloths and the same sales people that sold American TVs, shoes and clothes are selling them.
It is always sad t see the loss of jobs but car dealers are no more deserving that electronic stores, department stores or even restaurants. Lots of people were hurt by this economy and now they are being asked to save the Banks, auto manufacturers, Wall Street and now that they should help the dealers? Most of us would rather eat worms.
My argument is that when GM and Chrysler came for the money, the government should have asked to see all their financials and once they picked themselves up off the floor, told them they are going into bankruptcy. The government should have used the bailout money to cover the floorplan financing for the dealerships and make the payments to the suppliers so they can stay in business while GM and Chrysler get their act together through bankruptcy. You would still lose dealerships and suppliers because of the poor sales but at least you keep the infrastructure in place (ie jobs) until the auto industry shakes itself out.
I'm beginning to understand why they gave Chrysler less time than GM. Chrysler is smaller and they figured they can get this done before GM files bankruptcy. It would have been too taxing on everyone (bond holders, UAW, dealers, suppliers, etc.) if both were in bankruptcy at the same time. Although the more I read about GM, the more I am convinced they should just declare bankruptcy right now and get this soap opera over with. Their debt is massive and very little cash.
Yes, but the shoe and clothing and electronics stores can go right on operating by buying products from offshore, and they will still have as many customers as before. The local Chevy dealer can only sell Chevys from GM, no-one else is making Chevy. He also can't just up and start selling Tatas or Geelys.
The auto industry is not the same thing as those others you mentioned.
It seems preposterous that they have now taken action to prop up every single component of the domestic automotive supply infrastructure (manufacturers, suppliers, transporters) except the retailers. Not just preposterous, self-contradictory also.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How many people have lost their jobs in small downtown shops when Wal-mart comes in? Any bailout suggestions for them? No I don't think so. Personally I don't want my grandchildren to have to pay to bail out dealers. It is a lot like tuff love and kicking out a wayward teen age child that never listens to you. The dealers do not produce anything they only sell what is produced and so they are a lot like wall street. No better than a filling station or Ole's or Builders emporium when they closed the doors.
Suppliers can supply parts to Auto parts stores. Transporters can transport cars other than Chevy, Chrysler or even Ford. Used cars still need parts and imported cars still need transporting.
Read Arthur Hailey's book "Wheels" to help understand how people feel about dealers. Or maybe it will help explain how the dealerships felt about the customers.
If we aren't willing to bail out the customer then the customer should not be asked to bail out the merchant.