Full Sized Vans

celianeron

What is with LS CONDITIONER?Is this like adding some sawdust to smooth things out? Will my E150 just pass the 3/36K and drop it's rear in the end?Should I rush on over too the Ford boys and insist on this cure for the curse?Thanks, for cleansing this issue,mrnimmo.
ron

sarz272000

I am looking at Ford E-350 or GM 3500 full size standard length vans. I tow a 30 foot TT with 4 kids (3 teenagers) so I need a lot of towing capability. Has anyone had any experience with either of the HD vans from Ford or GM? Can you order a passenger 3500 series from GMC or are just commercial available? Any experience towing wit hese vans would also be appreciated. Do they fit in a standard garage?Thank you and keep up the good work on this site. Feel free to email me at sarz272000@yahoo.com

vandalybay1

Sarz,
You may also wish to check the "reliability" thread on the vans message board for information about Chevy/GMC full sized vans.

Check out the specifications on the GMC website to see the height, width and length of the van. That way you can see if it fits in your garage. My 3500 Extended van is too tall and too long for my garage.

As far as towing, longer wheelbases are better than shorter wheelbases. I have only towed enclosed utility trailers and haven't noticed they are behind me.

Yes, you can order a passenger version of the 3500.

Good luck shopping.

mrnimmo

But, I assume you are having rear end problems. Ensure the gear oil includes LS additives. Pmail me at mrnimmo@yahoo.com and I'll help if I can

mrnimmo

It's an additive required by a locking or limited slip differential.

xfiles

My Manual for the savana also mentions an additive to quieten the rear end with limited slip differential.

Causes for the excess noise can be from improper oil used (mechanic made a mistake)...try replacing it, improper break-in from driving at higher speeds (gears need time to break in too if you want it quiet, high speed leads to excess heat and short life on the gears).Try the additive, but things may be worn out.

brando8

I'm interested in a new van and i like the Starcraft conversion,I don't know if i want Dodge,Chevy,Ford or GMC. anybody out there that's owned one of these van's with the Starcraft conversion i'd sure like to hear from you.your opinion on the van and the conversion might be helpful.you can post your message here or write me direct at brando429@hotmail.com
Orville

okim44

We need a van to drive on long weekend trips. Found a 97 Dodge v6 3.9L engine automatic conversion, basic conversion package, but my concern is the engine and tranny. Any insights on reliability? There's 42K on it. Can drive it off the lot w/t&t for 9775.00 waddaya think?

Also, I did read something about being able to buy the balance of the factory warranty 7/70. If I'm buying from a small independent dealer, can I still do it?

suvshopper4

I bought a used 1990 Dodge conversion van with a V-8 (318c.i. / 5.2L) with 131k miles on it. I happened to meet the original (and only prior) owners. They told me the auto trans needing rebuilding at 60k miles. When I sold it at 150k miles, it needed tranny work again.

Isn't the original factory warranty transferable to the next owner at no cost?

I've heard that, in general, extended warranties are available up until the time the original warranty runs out. I'd get one for this vehicle, and I'd get it from the manufacturer (not aftermarket). Supposedly the price is negotiable.

Good luck. I've had 4 Dodge full-size vans as my daily drivers over the years. I'd have another Dodge if I needed another full-size van. I don't know about that 6-cylinder engine, though. I loved the slant-sixes (had 3), of course.

chevan

hi all. i noticed that the ford econoline topic has been archived. everyone happy with their ford full size clubwagons, cargo, and/or conversion vans? I am presently enjoying driving my '99 clubwagon chateau. it's got 50k on it with no major headaches. new brakes and shocks all around. the driver's side power door lock mechanism had to be replaced. other than that, she's a charmer! hope to hear from somebody. thanks. postal pete

ralphv1

I drive a 1998 E150 XLT, 4.6 V-8, 3.55 Traction-Loc, 705A package w/rear air. This is setup for my wheelchair. About 47000 miles now, and it seems to be holding up well, original tires and brake pads, although I drive it gently, hoping for 200K from this vehicle. I like the driving position up high, and the room.\
Ralph

stever

Full size van topics aren't too active here, especially since SUVs are the height of fashion these days. I've moved the Ford Econoline discussion back to the active topics to see if anyone bites.

Maybe this article will be of interest.

Steve
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mmcnamara

I currently own a 2000 Odyssey that I'm very happy with, but am considering a full-size van as our children get bigger and our vacations get longer. After reading many posts here, I'm much more inclined to buy a Ford E-350 or possibly a GM 2500 to obtain the heavy-duty components and avoid some of the problems others have experienced with the half-ton versions. However, I have a few concerns about having such a stoutly built vehicle as my daily driver. Foremost, is the ride so firm as to be along the line of a log wagon? I recall an article in Car and Driver that mentioned the E-350 as riding happiest when it had about 10,000 lbs. lashed to it. My wife would definitely not go for that, and we all know the importance of keeping the "better half" happy. How about the 2500 series's ride, a compromise between the E-150 and the E-350? Also, given that the V-10 option only commands about a $600 premium over the 5.4, is there that much of a real-world difference in gas mileage? Having all that torque on hand is really appealing. Any and all opinions on these questions would really be appreciated, as well as any advice on ordering the vehicle. Thanks.

xfiles

I own the 2001 GMC Savana 2500 extended passenger van with the 3.73 axle and 5.7L engine. I find the ride is very smooth and actually better then my Mazda 626 (present generation). The ride feels a bit different, but the longer wheel base and bigger tires just hides all the bumps on the road, and together with the softer seats in the van it is a superior ride for long vacations, and the higher view is great. The van does not wander on the hiway or get affected by strong sidewind either compared to the 1500 series vans. I think the softer suspension causes the lighter vans to tilt on its own springs when a strong side wind hits you, whereas on the 2500 series there is no sway...the springs just don't give in to tilting. Try one out, you won't know till you do, and explaining it to you is not the same thing. I understand the 2003/04 generation will be coming out and the ride is supposed to be even more improved, so I would not be worried about comfort. The GMC vans also offer tremendous leg room because the dog house has been moved 10 inches forward. There is so much room for your feet that a beagle has room to lay down in front of your feet, and the dog house does not get in your way when you need to access the rear. The dodge and Fords do not offer this advantage. The GMC is quiet on the road, and the 5.7L has more then enough power, why throw your money away on gas with a bigger engine unless you plan on doing a lot of heavy towing through mountains. Make sure you get rear air/heat because adding this option later will be next to impossible. In full suze vans it will be either too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer without this option. I recommend the extended version for a better ride, and the extra space is great. This added space allows you to keep the first bench seat behind the 2 front seats, and still you get the same interior space of a regular length van to carry 4x8 sheets of plywood, etc. Keeping that first row bench seat is real handy, and your gas mileage remains the same I feel! I get 20mpg Cdn on the hiway or 17 mpg U.S.

mmcnamara

I certainly appreciate the input, both your current response and all your past postings. I'm looking more at the Ford offerings due to the availability of the Chateau package with its quad captain's chairs, a must-have item. I know GM now markets its own package that is similar, but it's pretty pricey, and a little too opulent for my taste. If I had real choice in how my van was to be outfitted, I'd like to see an option for six captain's chairs with quick-release fittings on the back four. Oh, and I wouldn't mind seeing those clad in a heavy-duty knit vinyl, either, something that could be covered with an aftermarket cover if desired. One of my concerns with the new vehicles these days is that one cannot order (with the exception of trucks) a base vehicle that is devoid of expensive, breakage-prone options that tend to be fairly useless. I like a vehicle that cleans easily (like vinyl) because it's easier to keep it in "as-new" condition. I was ready at one time to order a base Suburban, but for 2002 they killed the option, leaving only the over-priced models. Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Keep enjoying your van!

xfiles

The person to talk to about ride and other issues is Vguard. He purchased the Ford Chateau last year about the same time I purchased mine. I am sure he can give you a lot more input on the Fords then I can. So far Vguard and myself both love our vehicles and have had no problems, although our mileage so far is very low to make an opinion regarding reliability.

Good luck, and hope you get a great deal on one!

xfiles

Haven't heard from you in a while. How is that beast on wheels doing? So far mine has been basically in storage for the winter, but with the better weather I plan on doing some serious trips in vacation land. Only have 5100 miles on it....yikes, I better start driving it before it becomes an antique! How is your gas mileage? You having any more problems with rail dust?

johnvanarsdale

MY FRONT BRAKE PADS HAVE WORN OUT THREE TIMES IN THREE TIMES IN 22000 MILES. ITS A CARGO VAN AND I CARRY ABOUT 2200LBS IN IT CONSTANTLY.THE DEALER/FACTORY HAS NO REMEDY. IS ANYONE ELSE EXPERENCING THIS PROBLEM? ANY SUGGESTIONS?

stever

Have you tried some non-OEM pads? Maybe there's an aftermarket pad that'll last longer (may squeal a bit if it's harder material though).

Steve
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vguard

I have just returned from a little "road trip", where I drove from Nashville up to Cleveland, then over to Pittsburgh and then back to Nashville.....never once entered a hotel or restaurant.

I took out the back bench and one of the rear captains chairs, then put in a twin size air mattress with sheets, blankets and my own pillow. I slept like a baby at the rest/truck stops and showered in the truckers lounges each morning.

I had a plug-in cooler for refrigeration (I located it between the two front seats and used one of the two power outlets located on the dash). I took a cookstove, but with snow in Ohio and rain in Pittsburgh, I never used it, so I lived on cold cuts and cereal.

I was only gone 4 days, but I would like to see someone try that in a mini-van!!! I had more room than I needed, with the seats taken out.

My van is running just fine!....How about yours?

vguard

stever

Sounds like fun, but....




eating out on the road is great fun too (and I don't mean MickeyDee's). I mean, you go to Nashville, you gotta hit the BBQ and fried catfish joints :-)

Steve
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xfiles

I have been doing "exactly" the same thing (camping in the van for 2/3 people is great). I also have a plug-in cooler between my front seats (also heats food). For cooking I prefer to do it outdoors with a coleman gas stove. For heating get one of those coleman catalytic heaters (BlackCat)....they are super! They DO NOT create carbon monoxide (flameless) and are safe for van and tent use. It works by chemical reaction between propane and platinum plates within the heater to create heat....and boy it makes a lot! You will be toasty warm, but I still prefer to use it when awake or before waking up in the morning to warm up. It lasts about 7 hours on one small coleman propane bottle (about $2 per bottle). For my tv/vcr (which I temporarily have resting on the cooler and store away by day till I fix up the van), I set up 2 Trojan T105 true deep cell batteries. Considering they output together 450 amp/hrs, and the tv/vcr use less then 1 amp together (about 75 watts combined), in theory it should allow me to run them for 450 hours before recharge. Never tested that theory, but I know I am good for at least a week of heavy use based on how slow the drain is on my meter. So the only thing left besides a good nights sleep (sponge mattress), heat, frig, and tv was to decide on how to shower. Turns out there are tons of places on the net to check out under truck stops to take a shower, some of the best are ....flyingj.com, Ambest.com, Pilotcorp.com. I've been staying at places well known by RV'ers like Wallmart, K-mart, Cracker Barrell as well as the odd rest area. The van was great during peak fall season (leaf season) when all the motels and campgrounds were "full" in the Adirondacks of New York State. The advantage of having the van was that I could park anywhere, even in residential neighbourhoods which you cannot do with other RV vehicles, and gas mileage was great (17mpg US or 20 mpg CDN), especially great in mountain areas.

Well, unfortunately I got sick this winter with advanced pneumonia, and it pretty near killed me! So the van has been in storage all winter for the most part. Soon as it warms up (nights), I plan on doing a lot more travelling. So far only have about 5300 miles on it, how many miles do you have?

The van has been good so far, except for a regular check up, and the mechanic decided to replace two injectors. Well, when he put it back together I have since heard a slight hum sound from the exhaust at certain speeds. So it will have to go back, likely something was not torqued to specs, or it could be something loose. No major problems yet, but so far it's too new to tell.

Yup, all this is not really possible (at least in comfort) with a mini van. I also felt real safe (from deer when your sitting so high) when in the Adirondacks, NY and White Mountains of New Hamsphire. Heck, already have the cooler and stove with me, some venison would be nice....LOL.

Glad to hear your having good luck with your van!

stever

Not really possible? Heh, check my profile (10 months camping out of our Quest a couple of years ago). :-)

I can recommend crashing in larger hospital parking lots too - you get woken up early with the morning shift change, got clean restrooms and a cafeteria just steps away, and if you get sick, well, there you are.

Steve
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xfiles

We could play real sick with the stomach flue, then get a nights rest on a real bed in the E.R. section and get free breakfast in the morning (at least in Canada...our health care is free). Just kidding!

Another good place is crashing (sleeping) in front of the police station, or if your real lucky yu might end up for the night in a cell with breakfast in the morning.....just kidding!

Or try the motel parking lot. I wonder about these guys parked there with their motor homes. If your smart yu keep the lights off in the RV.

Seems like I was wrong steve, anything is possible. Looks like (based on your profile) you have done a lot of serious driving and camping in your vehicle too prove me wrong. I just like the extra space of my extended passenger savana with seats removed, I like a full size mattress and room for luggage, camp gear and still have lots of space.

stever

I agree sleeping in the van would be nice at times. But we had two bikes, paddles, rollerblades and other junk inside - no room to lie down. Maybe fewer toys is the answer.

Steve
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vguard

stever

lol, we did test drive a couple. Would have been great for the trip, but we knew we'd need a commuter vehicle for the next 8 years, so we passed on them.

But boy, were they roomy.

Steve
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xfiles

Actually, I would probably be the first to buy one and end up "extending" my other garage "again". LOL

stever

heh, another good point - the minivan barely fits into our "two car" garage as it is.

Steve
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vguard

Nothing can stop it !!!!!!!!!

I find myself sitting around now, thinking of ways to improve the van camping experience !

Trouble is, with a wife and three kids, the van, extended or not, has it's limitations. I think it works great for one, or even two people. I'm now finding myself staring at those "Pop-Up" campers I see people pulling, thinking I may need to get one myself !

Another idea I have been thinking about is getting one of the older "Airstream" trailers (25-30ft) and renovating it. I could use it as a "guesthouse" when it was not on the road, and if properly restored, it would continue to go up in value.

My full size van would have no problem pulling the Airstream, since I can pull up to 6000 lbs (unlike the 3500lb limitation of a minivan).

xfiles, glad to hear your healthy again !!!!

vguard

xfiles

Yup, I'm glad I am feeling better too...Thanxs!

Hey, I was thinking about your problem of needing room for a family of 5 when camping in your van. Well, I got some ideas good for a laugh (that's it).

1. Add a high roof, then add bunk beds....LOL
2. Buy a second van or better yet to save on gas
tow a second van (it's safer then pop-ups in
bear country). If your going to tow, whats the
difference what yu tow...LOL. At least you
get hard side walls, but your going to look
weird. Expect more tickets. But hey, your then
a true blue van camper!

More seriously, a van is best for 2 or at most 3. The pop up is a good idea, the adults can sleep in the van while the kids sleep in the pop-up so you have your "privacy". Both RV units can have their own TV's, and towing a pop up would be the most economical on gas, and the easiest to store, and would save on wear on tear on the engine/tranny on your new van. You also wouldn't have any problems driving down narrow roads with low branches along wilderness lakes, and it would be easy to turn around too. Best part of it is pop-ups are cheaper new or used. Another nice thing is I bet it being light you could move it up right alongside your van and perhaps create a walk through from the van to the pop up using the side double doors (guess sliding doors can be
handy).

The pop up behind the van can also be handy while on route to a camping place. You could park I bet anywhere overnight wihout a complaint so long as you sleep in the van, and the pop up is not set up...... try that while towing a trailer or 5th wheel.Then when you arrive at your destination you could set up and have all the comforts.

Another important advantage is during peak seasons (eg-fall leaf season) all the motels and campgrounds are often FULL! At least you have the van to sleep in. You might have problems with 5th wheels and trailers and be driving all night for a place that allows them or has available space. Bigger is not always better in the wilderness.

I think I just convinced myself, when the need arrives for more space or additional comforts, I plan on doing the same....LOL. Thanx for the
idea(s)!

terrsouth

Hi folks,

I am a long time town hall member generally because I like to keep up with what others are saying about different vehicles. This time, I've found something I hope someone can help with.

I am located in the Nashville area and have found a dealership in the area (very large volume dealership, by the way!) that have FIVE different 2001 Chevy Express LT trim vans (all the same color and equipment except one...it's got leather) for sale. It doesn't seem like they can get rid of them. I'm looking to see if I can get a deal on one. They sticker for approximately $35,700, but since 2003 versions are coming out, I was hoping to get in on one for about 24K or 25K.

For the record, these vans are "loaded", meaning they have front/rear air, power doors, locks, and mirrors, as well, as the combo CD & Cassette system with 12 BOSE speakers. Again, these vans have NICE equipment.

The question is, what should I pay for this now 2-year-old, but brand new van? Is 24K too low? Any ideas?

Terrence

xfiles

Do you want one that has been sitting around that long on the lot without being pickled in oil.I've heard people refusing to buy a used engine from a wreckers once it's been on the shelf for 2 years.

I originally was looking to buy a used extended savana passenger van loaded, but they wanted so much for them that I went out and bought a new 2001. They don't depreciate like cars do, they are considered functional vehicles, age doesn't seem to have the same weight. The dealer likely bought up the last 5 in the country and knows someone will buy them. To them they are NEW 2001, not a used 2001, look at what the used ones go for and then decide (considering full warranty, zero mileage, etc). I doubt you will be getting a deal. They know that the commercial market wants a vehicle now rather then wait 3 months to order one, to them (rental market) it's lost profit to wait. So they are willing to pay the big bucks, even a bit of savings is still worth it to them, but not to you. If they are regular length, you might have a better chance in my opinion, but not by much.

Good luck!

mrnimmo

Is not a problem with a poptop van camper. See http://www.sportsmobile.com for an example. I have an older vw (great fun so long as your content with 50-60mph) and I sleep two upstair and two downstairs. I could sleep another in a cot arrangement for the front seats (must be a kid as that is only about 5.5 feet wide). Fords, Dodges, and Chevys can all be had with a similar arrangement.

My van has a poptop, rear bench/bed, and two seats in the front. That's probably the way I'd spec a new Ford/Dodge/Chevy if buying new. I just don't like cooking and all that inside the van.

Van campers are great if you are doing short camping trips (weekend ventures) or a lot of driving and don't want the long set up time or disadvantage of driving a land yacht. It's also helpful if you enjoy more minimalistic camping (if that can be said of someone who sleeps inside rather than in a tent or under the stars.

nwraaa

There are plenty of new 2001 full size conversion vans on dealer lots. Take a look at the door labels and find the date that the conversion company says is the manufacturing date for the van. The vans you looked at may be late in the year conversions. If these are top of the line conversions, 24K may be low. 24k is a good starting point though. The van with the leather seats will cost more than the cloth seated vans. These vans still come with the standard 36/36 warranty.

Bill Sid

calaverasg

Hey how about that 351! I am going to hot rod up my 77 ford E100 with a 351 Windsor. Mine leaks an awful lot but runs great.

mrnimmo

http://www.chevrolet.com/express/index.html

Lotsa new features on the new chevy/gmc. I hope this provides the impetus for similar upgrades to Ford and DC. The increased nose length allows for upgrade safety. Driver side doors. AWD. If they just put a few dollars into a modern seating arrangement (removable or hideaway seats.) I think people will return to these factory passenger vans.

stever

I could see getting one for a cross-country trip, but unless you are in a trade or you need lots of lockable room for your hobby gear, a full size is going to be hard to garage and people are going to think the ride will be worse than a smaller rig. We test drove a couple in '98 and didn't want to have to use one as a daily commuter. I think this kind of perception is going to keep demand about the same for the new ones.

I like boxes on wheels a lot, but the proposed new Microbus "box" seems like a better size to more people. Gotta love the prices for the full size vans though.

Steve
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rsmmac

You may be right, Steve:

I drive a 2001 GMC 3500 extended wheelbase van on a daily basis and I always get comments on why I would drive it every day / gas mileage / size / etc.

The ride is actually a lot better than people suspect. The front two rows are very comfortable;I've been in a lot of SUV's that are more rough than my van. The rear seats are bouncy, but the ride softens with 5-6 people and luggage.

The mileage is a drawback: 11 mpg.

The size is similar to a Suburban's, but the interior capacity is huge in comparison, and the price is cheap compared to a 1-ton Suburban.

For 2003 GMC can rename the van the Yukon XXL and market it as the biggest SUV on the road; maybe that will jump start sales!

stever

lol, better marketing could do wonders....

Steve
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xfiles

I get 20 mpg hiway driving, and expect to get when I switch to synthetic oil maybe 22 mpg (that's a Cdn gallon, about 19mpg U.S.). Mine is a 2001 2500 extended passenger Savana with 5.7L and 3.7 axle.

A suburban looks small to me when they pull up along side of me at a red light. I wish they would make a XXL Savana, after a conversion it would have a limousine look.

creid

I currently own a 01 Safari AWD. With (3) kids & large dog we find it difficult to pack up & take trips from Cincinnati to Texas. It seems we run out of room very quickly for all parties to be comfortable.
Me & the wife are thinking of the above mentioned full size van. Is there some suggestions on these vehicles or should I be steared away & look at conversion done by outside vendors & not GM. We like the Safari but w/ the AWD system I get worse gas mileage than my friends w/ full size vans & I have alot less room than they. Any insight or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

rsmmac

Yes, only 11 mpg due to four factors:
1) 8.1L V8
2) Mixed driving, 50% around town,50% highway
3) I have a heavy right foot
4) I had a fiberglass "bubble top" added (more headroom & room for TV/VCR)that adds weight and probably doesn't help the aerodynamics.

Recent road trip to Vegas with 4 adults, 3 kids & luggage was 13.5 mpg, mostly highway miles.

rsmmac

I like the SLT/LT package, I think it is a good move if you like the seating layout & having one vendor to go to if issues come up.

Also, I am not sure what transmission they use, but if you read a number of the messages here, you will see some comments of reliability issues with the lower-end transmissions. You will also see prior comments I have made about my choice of a GMC 3500 15 passenger van after owning a GMC conversion van. We have really enjoyed it, and the ability to remove different rows of seats has proven very helpful.

For example, for the above mentioned Vegas trip, I removed the row right behind the driver; that gave the next row back incredible leg room. Most of our luggage fit behind the last row, with a few bags set down right behind the drivers seat.
That still left three rows behind me: the last row for my two oldest sons (6 and 4), a row for the baby (1), and a row for the in-laws. With the TV and VCR, we never hear a peep from the boys. And we even have a porta-potti in the back (behind the last row) for "emergencies".

pemulis

The two of us are seriously considering buying a full-sized van to go on a 6 month trip across the US and Canada. We like to camp off-road and we're worried about how well a FSV will do. We currently have a Subaru Outback and have off-road camped with many other vehicles, but not a FSV. We're not interested in 4-wheeling to the max..just slow, careful travel on unimproved roads, national park back-country roads, desert roads, etc.

We're considering a used 2000-2002 Ford E-350 or a GMC G2500 --- without a conversion. Not sure about extended or not. According to spec, the E-350 has 7" clearance and the G2500 has 8". I think the low point is the rear axle. Our Subaru outback has 7.3", so I think we're okay there.

I'm a little worried about the RWD and the wheelbase. The E-350 has 138" wheelbase, and the G2500 has 138" and 155" with the extended version. I plan on getting a slip-differential installed if the van doesn't already have it.

I don't want to pay an extra $8K on a Quigley 4x4 upgrade if we don't need it.

We will have lots of photographic equipment, 2 bikes, camping gear, laptops... we *try* to travel light.

We don't want a package conversion, but plan to do a little work ourselves, like a separate 12-volt power system.

QUESTIONS:

1) Has anyone on this forum had off-road experience with these FSVs?

2) Any opinions on whether the RWD w/ slip-differential will be enough?

3) Do folks think I'll need the 4x4 Quigley package?

4) Should we get the regular or extended version? Again, only 2 people + gear. We plan to sleep in van.

5) Is a longer wheelbase a help or a hinder when it comes to off-road hills and gullies.

stever

hmmm, I did roads like than in my minivan on a similar 10 month trip (TransLabrador HWY, Missouri Breaks Scenic Byway, etc.). Sounds like a "stock" rig will do just fine.

We went with a short minivan after shopping full size vans and extended minivans since we knew the rig would turn into a commuter car when we settled back down. Otherwise, the extra room would be nice.

Steve, Host

xfiles

I ordered my 2001 2500 Savana "extended" with the 3.73 axle, limited slip, 5.7L and as a passenger van for travelling all the national parks in the U.S. and Canada. I also travel with lots of photo gear (4x5 cameras). Get 17mpg (U.S) on hiways.

First, to solve the electrical issue, get yourself 2 Trojan T105 golf cart batteries and hook them in series (they are 6 volt batteries, but in series are 12 VOlt). This will give you lots of juice for a small 300 watt Statpower power inverter (does 12V to 120 Volt conversion). You want a small 300 watt, because one 13" TV and a VCR only draw 70 Watts, any bigger unit is my feeling a bigger drain on the battery just to run the inverter(they use a fan). Of course if you want, get a 1500w inverter if you carry a micro wave, but keep the smaller one to save on battery power for everythinig else (there really cheap $50, the 1500W inverter on the other hand is about 7x more expensive).

Next, I would go with limited slip, the shoulders of the roads in all the national parks around Utah are soft sand. Hate to see you stuck because of one wheel on ashpalt, the other (the power wheel) in sand. Most parks have roads paved in asphalt, and even cars have gone throught the offroad sections iin Monument Valley. Of course there are places I would like to go but wouldn't risk. THen again they are within 10 miles, and you mentioned you have bikes. Remember also, the farther you go in, the farther a tow truck has to go to get you out (using a bike is safer). No van is designed to go where only a 4 wheeler can, but it will get you close enough.

Road clearance has never been a problem with an extended van, were only talking 20 inches longer. Turning around may make some difference, but not in open desert areas...remember they are only about 3 feet longer then a full size car, its how the space is used in a van that makes them look bigger.

The big advantage with the extended (passenger van) is that if you leave the second row of bench seats (removing first row bench seat) and remove all others, you end up with a living and bedroom area. The rear becomes your bedroom and accepts a full size sponge (single size) mattress. The area left just behind the front buckets is now huge (4.3 feet)...giving you space during rainy times, room for TV's etc, and great access from the side barn doors. This space also can accept a "second" full size mattress (only 5 inches cut off the end of a sponge mattress, and re-stitch the cloth) when layed sideways next to the barn doors. I toss that mattress on top of the other mattress in the back till needed at night. You can use a double mattress in the rear area (especially if your shorter), and not worry about the front mattress. If your hunting, your buddy might not like a double mattress to share though....LOL.

You will find that even the extended van has barely enough space. Camera bags, heavy duty tripod, 2 batteries, TV, porta potti, luggage, battery operated cooler between the front seats, etc all consume your space fast. You will be glad you had the extra 20 inches of length for extended trips. IF the hills and gullies on the roads are that bad, you shouldn't even take a regular length van on such roads, get a trailer with a ATV and tow it with you. Now your talking serious access to anything and anywhere in style.
Buying a ATV with trailer is cheaper then a quigley 4x4 conversion that will just increase maintenance costs on the van and kill your gas mileage. Gas mileage is everything if you travel a lot, the savings alone will pay for the ATV over a few years.

I also plan on adding one one of those tool boxes you see in the bed of pick up trucks. Some are perfectly rectangular (no cut in corners to fit over the top of the truck bed). This can be mounted at the rear of your van, provided you have a trailer hitch option. This gives you room for a small coleman portable generator to recharge your batteries, room for boots, extra clothing, water jugs, satellite dish,coleman stoves, fishing tackle, etc). I've seen one van with two of these stacked (each about 6'x2'x2').

It sounds like a motorhome or 5th wheel is too big and won't cut it for what you plan on doing. Then again don't go too small, the extra 20 inches in length for an extended will make a big difference on those long trips. The ride is also better, real smooth on a 2500 GMC. The GMC also has incredible leg room, and comfort is important for long distance driving.

One other thing, national parks do not allow cell towers. These parks are huge, your going to need a bag 3 watt cell phone in case you are in trouble (injury, mechanical trouble, or plain stuck in the mud). I have been in the dead center of Death Valley (except lowest point) and still had a signal of 1-2 out of 6. They have 5 times greater range.

Never had problems getting great pictures whether in Arches, Monument, Death, Bryce, Yellowstone, etc. Only hard part is controlling that dang dark cloth over my head when it;s windy when using a 4x5 camera. All worth it though. Watch out for the Buffalo, with the extended van you will match him pound for pound in a dual if he is in the middle of the road. I think 255 ponies beats one buffalo, I think.

mrnimmo

>RWD w/ slip-differential will be enough?

It depends on what you are doing of course. With all the weight you will have with the camping gear you'll probably be ok. But if you do want a little more performance, try a true locked differential like a detriot or lockright. Here a link to a van guy who did just that: http://mark.legendz.com/4x3/ Note these are somewhat loud on the interstate.

To me, the Quigley conversion would be difficult to justify unless you live in an area with lotsa snow. The van body (length, width, departure angles) would still be a limiting factor probably more so than the rear wheel drive. Here's a good link to people into 4wd and camping. http://www.glinx.com/~sbest/ They have a list that often discusses both issues.

Here's quigley for those who don't know anything about them. http://www.quigley4x4.com/AboutQM/Whoarewe/WhoAreWe.htm. Used by ambulances and delivery folks. $8000 + for a conversion.

Remember that GM is now making AWD available on new fullsize vans but 1500 only.

mrnimmo

>1) Has anyone on this forum had off-road experience with these FSVs?

No. But I do quibble a little with your choice of terms. You plan on poor-roading not off-roading. FSV's and Subarus will do the first, not the last.

>2) Any opinions on whether the RWD w/ slip-differential will be enough?

See post above. If I were adding a locker, it would not be a limited slip.

>3) Do folks think I'll need the 4x4 Quigley package?

For poor-roading no. For offroading- you need a Jeep + $10-15K in customization and a tent.

>4) Should we get the regular or extended version? Again, only 2 people + gear. We plan to sleep in van.

Look at them. Lay down inside. Imagine where that expensive gear is going.

Price would a big factor for me. A new extended van is several thousand dollars more expensive, but a used van may be similar.

Overall, as you are buying used, condition of the vehicle would be more important to me than whether or not it has that extra 1.5 feet of body.

5) Is a longer wheelbase a help or a hinder when it comes to off-road hills and gullies.

A longer wheelbase will generally hurt you on poor roads and help you on highways.

xfiles

Just wanted to add that buying a used extended van is a lot harder. The ratio is about 10:1 over a regular length vehicle. The long passenger models are all used by schools/churches/airports or used by rental businesses (different driver everyday), so they get rough treatment and get dirtier.

As far as extended models go, most areas that you need to access in national parks already have asphalt roads to handle tourist volume. They are designed to go to the best scenic areas. Unless your talking flat desert areas, deep areas of parks are better accessed by donkey, horse, bike, canoe, hiking, or pre-arrangements made with outfitters who supply you with donkeys, (eg- grand canyon has tours for the bottom areas). In cases like this, a Quigley will just get you stuck and maybe dead if your by yourself deep inland 50 miles or more (you need to then go in with 2 vehicles for safety), whereas a horse/donkey will get you out without worries about gas stations, breaking down or rough terrain (another benefit is they sense there is a rattler around before I do).

I covered a lot of U.S. parks, made prints as large as 40x60inches, never needed a 4x4. A good nights sleep is what yu need, organized storage, safety from bears, snakes, the cold(coleman catalytic black Cat heater...no flame, therefore no monoxide). A van does all that in a compact package. A van can also park anywhere, in a motorhome or 5th wheel you will be asked by the police to move on to a trailer park. They are just as full as motels during the peak seasons.