Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
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Yes sales may slump again - but so what! At least in the depths of the crisis people left their homes and went out to buy vehicles. That is the primary goal of this legislation. If the market returns to a semblance of normality sometime next year then sales may rise all the way up to 11 million units as a result of normal demand factors.
I understand your point, but diagreee with your conclusion. An addict who gets a fix feels better too, but only temporarily. Later he'll feel worse. The clunker program does nothing to solve the auto industry's underlying problems.
I believe you're ignoring the costs associated with this program, including the cost and pollution resulting from destroying still-useful assets, in some cases, and the same factors resulting from producing replacement vehicles.
Of course, the benefits will outweigh the costs for the relatively small percentage of people who receive vouchers, and those who make their living in the auto industry. For the majority who fall outside these categories, the costs, including the increase in the national debt, will linger for a long time.
My Mercury Topaz 1992 old window sticker 21-26- current fueleconomy.gov MPG estimates my old junk- 19-21. Hardly moving, jerking on a 5 degree hill.
Thanks.
KanChen :mad:
I wonder how many "clunkers" that are turned in for this program will be vehicles that are similarly rarely used like ours.
In my case, I would not mind trading my 99 Ranger on a new small PU truck. However they have not improved in mileage by 2 MPG. My V6 is rated 17 MPG. New Ranger and Tacoma are both 18 MPG and the Nissan Frontier is only 17 MPG. Not sure how anyone will be able to unload a small PU truck or SUV for a new one under this bill. Unless they are willing to really downsize to a mini SUV.
I think dire times require dire action---if 7 programs succeed, and 3 fail, and the net result is in the positive column financially, I think that's all right to do. Worst thing to do is to be Herbert Hoover and do nothing.
Obama made it clear throughout his campaign, that was the plan. However he always alluded to it being the RICH that would pay. That was a lie. The Middle class will pay a lot also. Those at the top and bottom will get off without much change. He already eliminated the tax cut for 95% of working Americans. That went into his Stimulus bill. The CFC bill was supposed to come out of the Stimulus and now it is just more deficit spending. I am sure those that get the $4500 will be appreciative of our generosity.
Another question. If the bill goes into affect from July 1st and it will be 30 days from signing before the NHTSA lays out which dealers will be qualified to implement. Seems that something is missing.
The program will be implemented by the NHTSA which has 30 days from the approval of the bill to post all program details online. All of the legislations details are currently posted in the legislation section of this website.
What happens if the NHTSA on July 20th decides that only certain dealers will be used? Will any dealer actually take a chance on collecting prior to the approval date. Being retroactive to July 1st leaves a lot of room for error on the part of the dealers.
“Once the bill is signed the NHTSA has 30 days to figure out the implementation of how the program works including how voucher receivables, vehicle disposal” said Sean Wolfington, from www.CashForClunkersHeadquarters.com, a private company that is promoting the legislation, educating consumers and connecting them with “Certified Cash for Clunkers dealers” who are authorized to administer the program and who have agreed to offer additional incentives to make it easy for consumers to upgrade to a more fuel efficient vehicle.
Will the certified dealers be picked on the same basis as the GM & Chrysler dealers were picked for dumping. Is this more politics as usual? Hopefully this list of "Authorized dealers" will be made public in the near future.
I do not want the government giving aid to farmers, the auto-companies, foreign countries, construction companies, or anyone else. I want the government to supply necessary services and regulations, and that's it.
Subsidizing and encouraging many people who probably should make due with a clunker to extend themselves on a loan to buy 18000 vehicle minus $4000 may still result in a bunch of repo's in a year or two. Plus a bunch of semi- useful vehicles that don't get driven much swapped.
More people induced into loans with teasers and such... just the way we got into this mess.
First the gov't -Fannie-May- Federal Reserve - Gm chrysler Mess damn near collapses the world economic system
Now the Gov't-Health care corporate alliance fix ...... with the same Congressional cast of characters.
Jesus what crap and a mess.
--jjf
Lack of regulation in the financial markets seems to have largely gotten us into this mess. C4C may help some people mark time until the pendulum swings back the other way.
Dealer marketing has started in earnest.
"Cash For Clunkers" Program Excites Aberdeen Dealerships (KSFY)
Recession is Now Tied for Longest Since the Great Depression
Clunker legislation (and not AIG :P ) is as much a part of US "capitalism" as "free trade" is.
Also - How many people who own $500 to $1,500 that may be rightfully destroyed are going to buy a brand new car? Not many when you consider the car has to have been registered and insured in the owner's name for one year prior to sale.
The whole thing seems like another gimick from the U.S. Gov't to waste money and assets.
Addict? Who or what is an 'addict'? Are the unemployed addicted to work? Are businesses addicted to profits? Are you proposing that we simply allow events to go their normal couse and let this economic crisis drag on as long as it wishes?
The auto industry is in the middle of the most significant restructuring and reorganization in its history. It's problems are being solved as we speak. It was overweight and bloated these past 10+ years but that is being resolved in a number of ways every day. Easy credit? A thing of the past.
I understand what you're saying about resouces but taken to the extreme what you're proposing is that everyone should drive their current vehicle til it dies. Only then would an owner 'qualify' to 'engage new resouces' to buy a new vehicle. This minimalist viewpoint is not at all part of the ethos of our society. Nice theory but it's a non-runner in reality.
I believe you're ignoring the costs associated with this program, including the cost and pollution resulting from destroying still-useful assets, in some cases, and the same factors resulting from producing replacement vehicles.
Of course, the benefits will outweigh the costs for the relatively small percentage of people who receive vouchers, and those who make their living in the auto industry. For the majority who fall outside these categories, the costs, including the increase in the national debt, will linger for a long time
As to benefits, it's been decided by economists around the world that the best course to get us out of the current mess is to borrow from our own future taxes. It's our money and we're spending it ourselves. You might disagree but it's already been decided in every country in the developed world now that stimulus is needed....now.
Do you not realize that this has been happening ever since our country began? Governmental bodies collect taxes from the population as a whole then they get spent on the general welfare of the nation as a whole. Ever since day 1 of our nation this has been occuring.
Welcome to the last 3 centuries.
If anything this takes money from the have-not's and gives it to the have's. It's not suprising really that the emotional ones ignore reality.
Poor Joe who works for minimum wage and barely gets by with food stamps now drives an early 90s Chevy truck to his janitorial job. He could trade it in for a $4500 voucher....except that he will never be approved for a loan. He makes too little.
Richard Wealthy has several vehicles in his personal fleet including an early 90s Chevy truck. He's retired to his farm and has no need of anything more except that it makes sense for him to give up his $500 clunker for a $4500 voucher in order to buy a new truck. He doesn't need to qualify for any damn loan....he's paying cash.
Now what was it you were saying about redistribution of wealth???
If you're going to post a one-sided emotional rant at least try to consider that there is a flip side to your pov which is in 180 deg opposition.
Subsidizing and encouraging many people who probably should make due with a clunker to extend themselves on a loan to buy 18000 vehicle minus $4000 may still result in a bunch of repo's in a year or two. Plus a bunch of semi- useful vehicles that don't get driven much swapped.
More people induced into loans with teasers and such... just the way we got into this mess.
First the gov't -Fannie-May- Federal Reserve - Gm chrysler Mess damn near collapses the world economic system
Now the Gov't-Health care corporate alliance fix ...... with the same Congressional cast of characters.
Jesus what crap and a mess.
Another baseless, factless emotional rant. Do you feel better for getting that off your chest. It doesn't make any sense and it isn't true but as the ladies say a good cry is worthwhile.
You can resume your spitting contest after you answer.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
And kdhspyder... personal attacks such as calling someone silly is not really appreciated. I'd rather spend time on the issue.
Oh wait, there's another $3,600 in incentives on that truck, so maybe $32000 and some change.
Goody, mine is an '85. I wouldn't want to trade for a similar gas hog though. How about a nice little four-banger? Still OK?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Not exactly. Remember, the vehicles turned in must go straight to the junk yard. So unless they are worth less than $3500-4500 it's better to sell or trade them.
I can't imagine a company fleet or rental car company owning vehicles worth so little.
I had a good experience with them one time back in the 80's iirc, and I sent a kid there a few years back. They would rent to him even though he was under 25.
My read is that it's ok to trade a truck for a car. That's essentially what I'd do if I trade-in my qualifying minivan.
Farmers want aid
auto companies want aid
construction companies want aid
oil companies want aid
importers want aid
exporters want aid
unions want aid
etc
etc
etc
everyone of these groups out number you and thus out vote you.
I can't imagine a company fleet or rental car company owning vehicles worth so little.
I can see it working for construction companies and such. I'm working with a mining company right now that has about 200 pickup trucks in the fleet. Some are very old, ragged, barely running heaps....but they're only used in the pits so as long as they run they're in service. Once they quit running or can't easily be fixed, they're sent to the junk yard. So we can use those trucks to get a discount off our new trucks. Of course we're not likely to buy any additional trucks just because of this....we'll just save a few bucks.
You conveniently forgot that last Sept after handing the keys to the Treasury to the bettors at AIG's casino that Paulson/Bush looked at certain very important banks and said 'Holy sh--, we're about to enter the Stone Age again.'
This was not a normal but more serious downturn in an economy. Paulson/Bush told us so ( they were probably correct ).
Being on the trading-in side of the transaction there are huge numbers of people that hate their truck or SUV and want out of it....but not if it's worth $1000. Now $4500 is a different story.
I'm 99.9% positive that trading truck/SUV for car is a key goal of this plan and will be allowed if not encouraged.
I have no problem with people who make good decisions in life being rewarded by a comfortable lifestyle. People who make poor decisions will live according to their poor decisions
Where does anything in this legislation specifically assist those 'people' that make poor decisions. It benefits everyone that chooses to participate, wealthy, poor, man, woman, native, immigrant, anybody.
In Sept 2008 we were at the edge of a horrific abyss that might have set us back 100 years. The last two governments may have reacted just in time to avoid a worse situation than we're in now. One that none of us has ever seen.
The rest of your rant is off topic on a completely different subject. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand, stimulating the US economy.
BTW no one is using 'your' money to help anyone else buy a car. No one is dipping into your pocket for any extra so that Richard Wealthy can trade his $500 clunker on a new truck. Based on a similar income you will pay the same amount in taxes this year, next year and the following so you're not out anything.
All 'your' taxes help maintain the Hoover Dam. All my taxes go to NASA to fund the Mars program.
No one with any experience will buy a 4 cylinder gas engine in a PU truck. They are worthless gas guzzlers. Been there done that. 1994 Toyota PU was a total POC truck.
Only Chevy Hybrid you can buy is the stripped 2WD model. The nice ones are MSRP over $45k. Besides there is a shortage of PU Trucks and Large SUVs. Are you sold out on Sequoia and Tundra?
I may just go and order a VW Golf GTD with my 99 Ranger if they do allow PU to car trade-ins. I would rather buy the Tiguan TDI if it makes it in time. And yes I will pay the difference in cash. I hate car payments. Unless it is 0.0% interest.
The vast majority have no wish not the time nor the ability to even begin the process. Rail all you want about these people....they are the majority in the country. If they've just been told that their 1997 Ford Explorer XL 4WD with 180,000 average miles on it is worth $200 in Trade....
HERE:
1997 Ford Explorer XL 4dr SUV 4WD
Trade-In .. Private Party .. Dealer Retail
National Base Price $1,231 $1,805 $2,761
Optional Equipment $140 $200 $332
Power Exterior Mirrors $6 $9 $15
Power Door Locks $11 $16 $27
Limited Slip Differential $17 $25 $41
AM/FM/Cassette Audio System $12 $17 $28
5-Speed Automatic Transmission $60 $85 $141
Roof Rack $8 $11 $19
Power Windows $15 $21 $35
Cruise Control $11 $16 $26
Color Adjustment
Black $0 $0 $0
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code 23320 $-43 $-64 $-98
Mileage Adjustment
180,000 miles $-615 $-615 $-615
Condition Adjustment
Rough $-513 $-747 $-1,127
Total $200 .. $579 .. $1,253
link to this trade info
These owners will be all over this $4500 voucher. Screw having to sell it to some stranger and haggling over +/-$200, get this b***h off the road and crush it.
I think you are over simplifying this whole recession issue. Lots of people were deceived, ask Bernie Madoff's and Stanford clients. And the mortgage issue is more complex than we have space to discuss on Edmunds.
I'm not a fan of the vouchers but simply put, it's the best way the governement can put cash into the auto industry. I don't like the idea of people taking on more debt but I guess the banks and lenders will control that.
Good luck with the chemo.
Then you keep jumping from trucks to SUVs. A PU truck generally has a much longer usable lifespan than an SUV. I run into people all the time looking for a cheap truck for hauling trash and stuff.
Again it gets back to, Will they let US trade a 99 ranger on a small car or CUV that gets much better mileage? It is specific on larger trucks 6000 lbs and above that they can only be traded on newer trucks.
And your East Coast focus isn't rather narrow? When the highest point is 30 feet above sea level a Prius or 4 banger is adequate. When you have several 7-8% grades with 70 MPH posted speed limit and people driving 75-80 MPH those baby stroller engines are inadequate and somewhat dangerous to those around them. Add 80 MPH cross winds and many vehicles are not advisable. The Prius is one of them. Your lack of knowledge on places West of the Rockies is showing.
Quite frankly I don't give a d**n what they drive back East. Just don't clutter our highways with that crap.