2011 Hyundai Sonata

bobad

Well, that's her.

She better be telling the truth, the NHSTA and Hyundai will have her head on a platter.

I'm guessing it took great strength or a great blow to break the bolts holding the steering booster. I don't know why she is not agreeable to replacing the broken bolts or whatever.

jsmit86

At first I was very skeptical about the post; mostly due to the multiple postings and the nature of the story. After reading her follow-up posting, I figured that the post was real. That said, we really do not know what caused the issue at this point. It could be road hazard damage, or it could be a faulty part.

With the thousands sold, it seems that if this issue were widespread we would be seeing a lot more about this. In the meantime, we all should keep this in perspective. If you read through the NHTSA database, you will see all kinds of events that happened infrequently, or only once. If you sell enough cars, you will probably find a report of a model bursting into flames, wheels falling off, etc.. etc..

This is not meant to belittle mommyt's experience. If it happened to me or to my wife, I'd certainly be alarmed. At this point in time, we only know of this single event, with thousands (approaching 50K I think) of 2011 Sonata's sold.

I know that Hyundai is investigating the issue. If they find something actionable, I have confidence that they will act.

meik

Sure, I just wanted to let you guys know there is a "complaint" filed to NHTSA. I am not sure if MommyT is the one who filed it though. There still is a chance that she just found it on NHTSA and posted it here. Who knows. But the truth is that it happened to someone and that person filed the case.

There could be a over hundreds of complaints filed to NHTSA everyday, but I hope the case caught NHTSA's attentions and they already started investigation on the case.

jlflemmons

" But the truth is that it happened to someone and that person filed the case. "

At this time, the truth is that someone filed a complaint that it happened. There is no evidence that it ever happened. Remember, there were several folks who swore up and down that their Toyota Prius' (Priuses, Priusi?) went rabid and accelerated with amazing power and no brakes, and that several of these cases turned out to be completely bogus.

I will not sit here and pretend to fully understand the power assist design of the Sonata. But I will also state that I find it diffucult to believe that such an electric assist would be able to overcome driver input.

jsmit86

It may not have had anything to do this the electric assist. There was information about a broken bolt. A lot of things could have happened that may have nothing to do with a defect in design or parts.

I find this case interesting, but it's only one case. If you search the NHTSA database, the only multiple complaints with a common thread are people complaining about the road runner "beep beep" horn!

ewg54

mommyt also mentioned that the car only had 300 miles on it. If there were a loose bolt or not properly torqued bolt it could explain why it let loose. There are many qualty checks for all the parts on an assembly line. But maybe this one was missed. But it sounds like a one time deal. and if the NHTSA see's a lot of the same comments they will investigate.
My Sonata has over 2,000 miles on it and have found no problems at all and I think thats the rule for most new Sonata's, mommyt got the exception. Just happy no one was hurt.

keyman2

I really can't say the salesmen's name but it's Atlantic West Islip,L.I the salemen is the maneger.He offered me Internet price and something else not sure?but I'm going to him in 3 weeks,I'll see if he's on the level. I'm buying extra's like Mud Guards,tinted windows,maybe pinstripes.Good Luck

sjwr

jsmit86 wrote: "After reading her follow-up posting, I figured that the post was real."

meik wrote: " But the truth is that it happened to someone and that person filed the case. "

I seems some people here are irresponsibly jumping to conclusions without valid reason or evidence & saying that an 'INCIDENT' with the steering wheel actually DID HAPPEN. Amazing distortion indeed!

MommyT has still not provided the name of the dealer, provided the video or the vin number, & has only given excuses & has suddenly gone into hiding(?) when faced with valid questions from people in this forum... Her stories which do not add up & her reluctance to provide anyone even the most BASIC information or proof regarding the accident only makes people question her serious allegation.

My personal guess is that it is not only MommyT who is trying to spread misinformation here about Hyundai... and that some people are secretly unhappy to see Hyundai doing so well these days...

Hyundai already recalled & fixed door latches for idiots who couldn't resist opening their Sonata doors while pressing down on the lock button... I see absolutely no reason to doubt Hyundai's commitment to its customers at this moment.

mexjohn

I see absolutely no reason to doubt Hyundai's commitment to its customers at this moment.

I'd like to go a step further with this thought: I have now spoken to many current and former owners of Hyundai Automobiles since buying my own Sonata ltd, and I have yet to find one that has said they had any major problems and when they did have anything wrong, Hyundai took care of it.

I think this is the assurance anyone must go by, and it's what Hyundai has been building for the last 20 years in this country. Dependability that continues to evolve and improve.

KEYMAN, You're going to have tinting put over the solar glass? I find the factory solar glass to be sufficient tinting, and wonder if you've been fed a bill of goods as regards putting any more on. As I understand it, it's standard on all models.
One more thing, the price. I paid $22,900 (sticker was $27,592) here in Florida, and the Southeast division always, for some reason, is supposedly higher, and I bought a Limited with everything but Nav. Seems you could still do a little better for the SE. Of course, the Nav IS rather expensive in my opinion, and NY has a fair limit on the "Doc fees" whereas Florida does not, $699 at my dealer. I think NY is $75? I actually just got a $139.00 refund from the dealer because it didn't cost as much to transfer license plates at they had originally charged me. Of course, they were supposed to get me a new tag for this Sonata because I didn't sell the Toyota, now I must get a new tag and pay extra for the new plate. They had tried to charge me even more for a new plate and I refused to go over the $250 (he wanted $200 more!) Guess he feels he got me back by transferring instead of a new plate. Won't now recommend these crooks, but the car YES.

craigmri

Anyone have any new information on when the Turbo Sonatas will be available? All I hear is "Late Year".

sellinhyundais

I work for a dealer and thats all I am really hearing . . . I will certainly post something as soon as I know more

schdy

I'm with you on this one!

mbzx

mommyt has a lot of time to post so many messages but has no intention of providing the VIN and information regarding the car whether it is an SE, Limited or GLS. Her intention is to just skillfully say what she wants to say and to just ignore the most important pieces of information to help the endangered owners. If she is so concerned with the lives of so many others who purchased the vechicle, why wouldn't she cooperate and help others out while expounding on her loft motives? :confuse:

Kirstie_H

Speculating about another member's motives isn't helpful to the conversation, nor is demanding personal information like the vehicle's VIN. She will either provide additional info, or she won't. It's already been requested. There is no evidence, at all, that she is being untruthful or trying to damage Hyundai. It would be rater foolish to post the allegations publicly in several places if she did not believe them to be true, as it could cause her trouble.

Let's let the speculation regarding motives drop - I've already removed several ridiculous posts.

schdy

She/He said it was a matter of life or death. Murder was even mentioned in several posts. I consider that to be more serious than a wait and see. 6 cars were referred to at the same Dealer with this safety problem. Can I ask what is your confidence that all the info in the post is true. I own a 2011 Sonata and I'm very concerned. I have forwarded the posts to Hyundai Headquarters and I am awaiting a response.
Why don't you feel it's the obligation of the poster to validate this important safety defect to prevent any of us from having a serious accident. I called my Dealer and he has no info on the matter.

targettuning

I must apologize for my initial reaction. Like many here I did some research on EPS and like others found there is indeed a potential for something called "auto steer". I have copied and pasted a relevant bit of information from a different site that may explain some of this behavior. See below.
"Unlike the manual system described above, PAS with the presence of supplementary steering force to that provided solely by the operator introduces additional engineering challenges in terms of maintaining the desired steering linearity described previously. In fact, with respect to steering linearity, a poorly designed power steering assist system may have almost no relationship between the hand wheel torque applied by the operator and the actual required steering force imposed by the wheel or tires. There no longer may exist the uniform, consistent and predictable relationship between the “input and outputs” to facilitate “tactile reference driving.” Restated, the tactile sense of the driver to maintain directional control, and the magnitude and modulation of the “input” force may not bear a direct, proportional relationship to the required “output” force delivered by the steering system. Tactile reference steering is simply not possible with such vehicles. Rather their drivers must continuously engage in “visual reference steering” to maintain directional control. The result is that such vehicles are very tiring to drive for any length of time or distance. Further their drivers are constrained to continuously look at the road. If such driver should look away even momentarily (i.e., to check a rearview mirror or a child in the car), he or she has minimal tactile reference as to the actual position of the vehicle during that period of time. This is dangerous because, depending upon the road topography and condition, the vehicle may have moved transversely in significant amount relative to where the driver thought his or her vehicle was positioned. This can and often does lead to serious trouble.

This helps explain the varying accounts of unintended veering, as the ability to handle sudden changes in steering response varies greatly from driver to driver. Like unintended acceleration, this makes the task of narrowing down the primary causes of EPS failure or malfunction impossible based on recorded accounts alone."
Keep us posted

bobad

This helps explain the varying accounts of unintended veering, as the ability to handle sudden changes in steering response varies greatly from driver to driver. Like unintended acceleration, this makes the task of narrowing down the primary causes of EPS failure or malfunction impossible based on recorded accounts alone."

No, I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with Mommyt's problem. Your pasted info explains why EPS steering is challenging to create a good "feel" in the steering, which is very subtle and subjective. What Mommyt posted describes a sudden and obvious failure, and was not at all subtle.

Kirstie_H

Simply put, because we do not allow badgering other members here. Regardless of how important it may be, the person has no obligation to comply with other members' demands for more info. It would certainly be nice, but if the request is not fulfilled, I'm not going to permit continued demands.

If you have further questions about hosting policy in this discussion, please email me directly.

sftl97

Looks like there was a report filed with NHTSA about this issue. id number: 10322666

Reads pretty close to what was written here.

Fred

meik

jsmit86 wrote: "After reading her follow-up posting, I figured that the post was real."
meik wrote: " But the truth is that it happened to someone and that person filed the case. "

I seems some people here are irresponsibly jumping to conclusions without valid reason or evidence & saying that an 'INCIDENT' with the steering wheel actually DID HAPPEN. Amazing distortion indeed!

I believe that it should have happened when someone filed a case complaint to NHTSA. Well, about our weak horn, I think there could be a madeup story but we HAVE a weak horn, right? I don't think or believe that there is anyone who just want to file a fake complaint to GOV for fun or to mess up with a company for any reason.

MommyT has still not provided the name of the dealer, provided the video or the vin number, & has only given excuses & has suddenly gone into hiding(?) when faced with valid questions from people in this forum... Her stories which do not add up & her reluctance to provide anyone even the most BASIC information or proof regarding the accident only makes people question her serious allegation.

I never said MommyT is the one who filed her complaint to NHTSA. She might just find a complaint and try to spread it out as if it actually happened to her. In that case, there is no way she could provide a whole VIN (you can find partial VIN on NHTSA database) or a video clip.

My personal guess is that it is not only MommyT who is trying to spread misinformation here about Hyundai... and that some people are secretly unhappy to see Hyundai doing so well these days...

When you attack someone's post, you have to come up with a better reason.

targettuning

Maybe or maybe not but the lack of tactile feel and the example of momentarily looking away from the road and not ending up where you thought you should be when you looked back, as in the next lane maybe, could explain it in part. I work in electronics and have seen servo's hunt, i.e. not track to the proper azimuth or elevation, overshoot then correct and overshoot in the opposite direction overcorrect ...on and on. They tend to oscillate if the stabilization circuit malfunctions. I have seen all kinds of electronic citcuit card failures so I can envision the electronic system misinterpreting where you want the car to steer and providing an alternate path..although I won't loose sleep or let it stop me from buying a Sonata. It seems to be isolated, if true, to this point

richardmk

Everyone can read the NHTSA complaint, so what I'm posting here is public information.

I did Google search of the truncated VIN, and these are the VIN's that showed:
5NPEB4AC2BH023012
5NPEB4AC2BH026105

For both cars, Carfax has 2 records, but I did not want to pay to get the report to find out what the records were about.

When I do a Google search on both vin's, a pacific blue pearl GLS and a camel GLS, both located in Austin, TX show up. This is weird, because the location of the person filing the NHTSA complaint is Sweet Valley, PA.

The incident date is 3/28, and the report date is 3/29 so I don't know why this is just now being reported here in the forum.

alexup

Just my 2 cents:

This report filed with NHTSA to me sounds suspect. Why must they file this report in all caps? And why did the person have to say that they video taped the wheel shaking while in park???

Just my thoughts!

:confuse:

2011limited

Danger Alert for 2011 Hyundai Sonata!

Written by: mommyt on 04/22/2010

Detailed Ratings

Overall Rating
Performance: 1 Fun-to-Drive: 1 Build Quality: 1
Comfort: 8 Interior Design: 9 Reliability: 1
Fuel Economy: 9 Exterior Design: 9

Vehicle

2011 Hyundai Sonata SE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 6A)

Review

I loved this car. I drove it for a week before it almost killed myself my son and my husband. The steering wheel whipped out of my hands and the next thing I knew, we were in the oncoming lane! I had to fight with all of my strength to bring it back and keep it over for the distance of around 6 car lengths while the wheel shook and jerked to the left. Thank God there was no oncoming traffic or there would have been a head on collision! In the end...after being handed a lot of bull crap, I made them take the car back. They Hyundai Corporation never contacted us to even apologize. They are not going to warn any customers either. So I am. I'll never drive a Hyundai of any kind again!

Favorite Features

IT ALMOST KILLED US! They told us that they didn't have to check any other 2011 Sonatas because its an isolated incident! If they dont check any others, how can they say its isolated?! Does Toyota ring a bell?!

Suggested Improvements

I suggest that when a bolt snaps making the electric power steering pump fail then the safety shut-down fails and almost kills your customers, you should not only fix it, but call all of your customers and have them bring their 2011 sonatas in to be checked! Dont just "hope" it doesn't happen again!

alexup

2011limited,

Guess we now know who filed the NHTSA complaint report.

targettuning

Maybe this part of the information I have found will be more relevent to the possible failure than the previous part posted above.
"To-date, technical and product liability concerns have precluded the introduction of such systems in the U.S. market through it is expected that niche application may be expected in the near-to-mid term mix of future vehicles. Such system design have yet to prove themselves sufficiently reliable and safe to prevent dangerous “auto steer” events. “Auto steer” has crept into the lexicon as an adjunct to the development of EPAS system. As the name implies “auto steer” denotes an uncontrolled steering event neither commanded nor stoppable by the vehicle’s driver due to catastrophic failure in the electron hardware or software. In truth, these systems are control servo systems, similar in function to aircraft control servo systems, and must have multiple redundancy. Although these new EPAS systems are said to have multiple redundancy , their design and broad application within the automotive industry have been, and will continue to be, subject to economic pressure more extreme then found in the aircraft industry. For instance one obvious safety related item has been universally deleted from such system specifications: a clutch for physically disengaging the reduction gear box and drive motor assist assembly from the host steering system in the event of system failure. This means that a driver encountering an EPAS system failure will have to exert additional force to “back drive” (i.e. manually over ride) the systems reduction gear box and drive motor assist assembly while attempting to maintain control of the vehicle in the absence of normal power steering assist"

propwash49

I have a question about the electric power steering on the new Sonata. When I first read about it, I thought that the system might be very similar to the engine-driven hydraulic system, except that the pump was driven by an electric motor, rather than the car's engine. Now I have read some posts that seem to imply that there is some kind of electric actuation of the steering rack itself. Can anyone who has a 2011 Sonata let me know if the system involves an electric pump (with power steering fluid) or some other electrically powered method to move the front wheels when the steering wheel is turned? Thanks.

Kirstie_H

1) all of the reports are in ALL CAPS.
2) who knows? Why wouldn't they provide information like that? They certainly couldn't videotape it while driving.

Several people have remarked that it's "suspicious" that she hasn't been back. I'm not at all surprised. If you came to a forum and reported an incident (even though it's apparently unique to you) and were met with allegations of trolling, being a GM operative, and flat-out lying, how long would you stick around? She actually lasted a lot longer than I would have under the circumstances.

Some members have asked for additional information and phrased follow-up questions in a non-accusatory fashion, which is not only appropriate in these forums, but in basic social interactions. However, I am quite frankly disappointed in some of the unwelcoming, uncivil behavior by a few of our members.

targettuning

I do not yet own one of these but there is no hydraulic mechanism involved and as a result no fluid either. Simply the steering wheel angle and torque translates to an algorithm in an electronic control circuit which outputs a signal correlating to direction and amount you wish to turn which in turn powers a small electric motor which through reduction gears reduce steering effort and maintain power steering feel. Without specific knowledge of Hyundai's system this is a general overview but should be close. In the event of failure there should be a failsafe that both warns the driver and stores a code in the ECU that can be read by a tech.as any other failure logs a readable code. Which brings me to an interesting point, since a failure code should have been logged does anyone else think this failure should be able to be pinpointed relatively easily?

marsha7

and that is that IF there is some kind of steering defect, it has to start SOMEWHERE with SOMEBODY'S car, and you never know when you are caught in a trend or a series of defects until you have hindsight...

When I purchased my 2000 Sable in 2001, I could smell gasoline thru the A/C dash vents...the Ford dealer could not find anything wrong and said everything was normal...finally, the salesman got in the car with me and smelled gasoline, but they still had no idea what to do...it was right around the time I joined here at edmunds, and I posted my problem in the Taurus/Sable topic...thank heaven someone posted an answer that, I believe, had been found on the west coast, I think some plastic manifold or tubing was leaking...again, IIRC, a TSB was issued within a month or two before, and my dealer finally "found" it and replaced the bad part...my point is that the cars had been out for quite some time, but apparently the leaking gas problem was not well known...

If Hyundai has a problem that is now developing, it will take time to see if there was a bad production run...but, always remember...it has to start with somebody, and that somebody could simply be the first in a long line of possible problems, so the fact that 50,000 cars don't have the problem means nothing...maybe they were early production and the parts were from a different manufacturer...in this situation, anything can happen...

Kirstie_H

Excellent insight, as usual. Someone will always be the first to report an issue; whether they remain unique is yet to be seen.

When the Toyota sludge issue was first reported, we had many naysayers who asserted that the claims made were unfounded, and that it could only happen due to failure on the owner's part. In the end, posts in forums like these helped reveal the problem, which was a real problem. But it started with the first person who was sure they'd experienced an issue not related to their maintenance or driving habits.

ergsum

All mechanical/electrical systems, no matter how well designed, can fail. However, a single incident, if proven accurate, does not make a pattern.

Who’s Afraid Of Electric Power Steering?

travelady605

I purchased a venetian res with camel/black on 4/29 found the car by accident but was looking for about 2 months. They are getting more popular. LOVE it it was worth waiting for. I have nav pkg too terrific !

jsmit86

Replying to: sjwr (May 09, 2010 11:44 pm)
jsmit86 wrote: "After reading her follow-up posting, I figured that the post was real."

I seems some people here are irresponsibly jumping to conclusions without valid reason or evidence & saying that an 'INCIDENT' with the steering wheel actually DID HAPPEN. Amazing distortion indeed!

I said that I figured that the post was real, not that I had any proof. My guess is that the poster did have some sort of incident. Whether this was a defect in the car is another issue altogether.

I am a happy 2011 Limited owner. I am not complaining about the car. I am however interested in finding out more about the reported incident if and when more info becomes available.

moontrain

Just got done changing my wood grain in my Limited.

[URL=http://img686.imageshack.us/i/1000040u.jpg/][IMG]http://img686.imageshack.u- - - - - s/img686/9720/1000040u.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]

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If this worked I will post more

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ergsum

moontrain pic 1

moontrain pic 2

moontrain pic 3

jsmit86

Moontrain -

It looks nice! Can you please post where you got the kit, the color and material.

moontrain

erqsum:

Thanks for the help, I guess I didn't do it right.

I got the kit from B&I Interior dash kits, the color is Dark Burlwood ( code SDB ). I only got the 15 pc kit. You can buy a bigger kit,but I thought that might be a little to much.It takes about 1.5 hours to put it on.
Before pictures are REF#2720 and #2736.

mexjohn

Moontrain, that looks good. I hope you can post more to show everything you did. I ordered a Japanese Cherry kit from Carid.com, but so far, I'm not too happy with them. I ordered on the 5th, the site says normally takes 3-5 days to ship. They charged my Visa the next day and sent an e-mail saying the expected ship date, 8 days later. Not wonderful. The site also stated the product is "manufactured, ready to ship."

Today, Monday, I clicked on their live chat support to find out the status, and got a message that said support is not available on the weekends! Great, they don't even know Monday is not a weekend. Then I called the phone number which obviously went to India, got a very surly guy who couldn't apparently hear me well when I gave the order number and he said, "I need a 7 digit number." I repeated the 7 and said, isn't that 7. He nastily said, "You only told me 6 the first time." When I asked about the chat not working on a Monday, he said, "No customer support on weekends." He then again, nastily, said, "Sir, how can I help you." I answered, "You can't, goodbye." Didn't want to deal any further with such stupidity.

Needless to say, I'll see if it gets here, and if not by their date, I'll contest it with Visa and order somewhere else. Can't recommend anyone get their kit from Carid.com

Thanks for posting the pics. It's a nice enhancement.

moontrain

Mexjohn:

B&I I think is in the US. I got my kit in less than a week.They make there kits to order and use 3M products. I hope yours is 3M. I only got the small kit for now,maybe later I will add more. I wanted to start small so that it doesn't look to much. I am very pleased with their product, looks nice and was easy to do.
What color is your interior? I love the Camel, but I needed to take some of the black out.
Good luck and post pictures

By the way, I love my new Sonata and it runs great.

xmech

Wow! This whole mommyt thing is... I don't know, someone needs to invent a word for an instant internet subject flare-up...

Anyways, I was just wondering something. The 2010 Sonata was on my short list, but I went with the Fusion. (I'm NOT bashing the Sonata! Remember it was on my short list of Fusion, Sonata, Accord, Altima. I'm sure all good cars, but thank god we all have different tastes, or we'd all have the same car and want to date the same girl..) So one thing I didn't care for on that year Sonata was the EPS. I think I played racing video games with better feedback through the steering wheel. Did they fix it for 2011? Just curious.

mexjohn

I have the red wine interior, thus the more red Japanese Cherry wood grain. The kit is also made by B&I, but on their site they didn't have the kit I wanted, but the other site did. Can't figure that one out since B&I is the manufacturer.

I got two kits actually. One is just for the long pieces on the doors, the other is for no nav, with digital radio / AC, 36 pieces. I'll use as much or as little as I decide to after seeing it.

Yes, it's 3M, and IF I get it, I'll post pics when I get it installed. I think the cheery will go nicely with the wine and black interior. Like you, I just want less of the black.

It would be nice to see a shot of yours from the back seat to include as much as possible of your installation. Looks like there are some strange reflections on parts of the cupholder pic. Reflected light I imagine.

jsmit86

Mexjohn,

From which site did you order your kit.

mexjohn

Have any of you noticed that the page numbers for this forum always seem to be going back and forth between 200s and 100s? I started tonight, I think on 296 or something, posted a reply to Moontrain, and now the page number is 149. Weird, and I have been seeing it over the last couple of weeks.

jlflemmons

To learn that my 2010 Tucson Ltd uses the same electric power steering assist that the Sonata uses! I also checked my 2010 Elantra Touring SE, and while it is also an electric power assist system, it looks like a slightly different system

And I love it. Get good assist at low speeds, and goes pretty much full manual above about 20MPH. Is that how the Sonata behaves? Gives incredible "touch" when running the twisties at speed.

moontrain

More Pictures

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ergsum

moontrain Pic 4

moontrain Pic 5

moontrain

erqsum:

Thank you again. Not sure what I do wrong.

cmuniz

The kit looks really good. Congrats!!

mexjohn

jsmit86. Read my earlier post HERE

I'd check out other places first