2011 Hyundai Sonata

schdy

I just received another call from Hyundai and they are very concerned to validate this post. I forwarded your comment and this Forum post so they can get in touch to further investigate.
Just posting the Dealer where your car and the others are will be very helpful.
This is a very serious problem.

jsmit86

Hopefully this poster will give additional information, or..

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-10-02-bloggers-courts_x.htm
link title

Correct any false information.... I'd guess the HMMA will be interested in this issue.. one way or another.

earbuckle

While I don't have any reason to believe what seems like a fantastic post, I have wondered about the failure modes of column-mounted electric power steering. As I understand it, an electric motor on the steering column applies assistance in the direction of any movement of the steering wheel. Presumably, there is some sort of electronic control which "steers" the assist motor. But what if the "right" control were to open or short out? Would the "left" assist just sit there and provide assist only when turning left? Or could it apply excessive assist which is not counterbalanced by the missing "right" assist, thereby causing the wheel to sharply pull to the left? Until someone can answer these questions, I will maintain my preference for hydraulic power steering.

keyman2

jsmit86

I just sent the following email to Hyundai Consumer affairs:

********************************************************************************- - **************

A poster on Edmunds 2011 Sonata forum has made a pretty serious allegation regarding a potential safety issue with the 2011 Hyundai sonata.
The person claims to be an owner, and has made serious allegations about not only the product safety, but also claims that other cars have been “flagged as not safe to drive”

The post can be found here.

mommyt, "2011 Hyundai Sonata" #2792, 6 May 2010 10:49 am#MSG2791

The text of the post is here.

#2792 of 2809
Warning about the 2011 Sonata by mommyt
May 06, 2010 (12:49 pm)

Wait til you read this one! I purchased a 2011 sonata, had it 2 weeks, and was almost killed by my beautiful new car! No warning signs. It just whipped the steering wheel out of my hands and threw us into the other lane. I had to fight with it with all of my strength to get it back to my lane and keep it there. Thank God no cars were there, otherwise it would have been a head on collision! If I had been going any faster than 40 mph,I would not have been able to gain control in time. I am afraid of driving any kind of Hyundai! I only had a little over 300 miles on it! Though they won't admit it, they sent two Korean guys to investigate my car, red tagged (forbidden to drive) it and then red tagged 5 or 6 other 2011 sonata's on the lot, they are not going to warn anyone who already purchased one of the potential danger. I'm not saying that every one of the 2011 sonatas have the defective parts, but they can at least take a look at each of them instead of waiting for someone to wreck first! Best of luck with your new car.

********************************************************************************- - ****************

As an owner of a 2011 Hyundai, I am confident that your company will investigate this if it is warranted, or swiftly act to protect your company’s reputation from any allegation that is false.

Thank you

moontrain

Ref#2792

Mommyt:
If this story is true ( I don't think so ) than why not post the dealers name so we can contact them and talk about this.

I love my car and can't wait till next week when I add different wood grain to my Limited.
That was the only thing I didn't care for. I rate this car a 10.

zipn

Mommt, I would seriously think of what you are doing. With events that have occured in the automotive world lately, you might want to spend some of your time researching libel and defamation laws. 'Publishing' false information about a company can put you into a financial mess once you start hearing from their legal department.
My tip for the day unless you have some documented proof on your story.

craigsamuel

I have a new GLS with the simple plastic wheel covers.
I was thinking about keeping these wheel rims and wheel covers for winter tires and buying new wheels.
The problem is that I have no idea about wheels including the aluminum vs. steel debate.
Searching the web, there are millions of wheel makers and I am not sure what is a decent fair priced make. Any suggestions and also, what about safety? Should you only buy Hundai offerings and if you don't then, how do you know that a wheel manufacturer doesn't negatively affect your braking?

BTW, I live in Toronto, Canada
Thanks guys....oh and to the steering issue on the board....I have never felt that yet after 1700 km.

Thanks
Take Care,
Craig

schdy

I would hope either Pat or Karens, Forum Hosts will also followup on this post.
All of us Sonata owners are very concerned about the safety of our new car purchases.
I know i was recently criticized by the Forum Host for suggesting a poster might be affiliated with another Mfg. Dealer. This is certainly a much more serious situation than that post.

dave09se

First of all if your car did do this which I am doubting now you need to park it and contact your dealer.

Second and most importantly this was only needed to be posted ONCE not in every Sonata thread! I looked in all of those other threads to maybe find some useful info but no I see "wait til you read this one" over and over again! Come on there was no need for that!

whatever15

NAV, Bluetooth, radio 2011 Sonata including steering wheel control are working for ****. It is an integrated unit and it is worthless.

Anybody else?

The dealer has the car. They don't see it my way but I can assure you after tomorrow they will.

I will post details down to screen shots, communications, trips to dealer, etc
of this balony.

jsmit86

Whatever15 -

Your post is not too specific about the issue, but I'd guess that you have a bad unit. Hopefully they will fix it or replace it quickly.

I have a Limited w Nav Bluetooth etc...
My unit works well. My only issue so far is that the USB function could use some firmware tweaking. The Random function does no hold if you change modes, and the files can hang if you have multiple folder that have names that start the same way.
That issue is easily fixed by simply renaming the folders.

I frequent a couple of forums, and there have been few issues other than those mentioned above, and some quirky Bluetooth issues; many which are phone dependent. Please post more details... best of luck with your repair.

mexjohn

I would hope either Pat or Karens, Forum Hosts will also followup on this post.
You must have missed Karen's post, but sorry to say that Pat passed away on April 29. I agree, someone should research the post and pass the information on to Hyundai Motor Company.

mommyt

I'm sorry you feel that I am a paid for hack. Did I promote another vehicle? No! Actually, I lost a lot of money, not to mention my brand new car. Seems to me that you are another Hyundai employee just trying to keep my story covered up. If your not and you read what I posted and thought for one moment as to what we went through, you would understand that I was just trying to warn anyone who had purchased a new 2011 sonata. I had my child in that car, for God's sake! It may seem that I am trying to condemn the car, but I am not. I loved the car. It is great on gas, comfortable, beautiful, has more than enough room and storage compartments, etc... But, what I stated is the truth! If you do not want to believe it then I guess it is just too bad. I posted it everywhere because I am only trying to save someone from having an accident and possibly taking others lives. I believe that your lives are worth more than a new car. I thought that people would be glad to know, but I guess I was wrong.

mommyt

Yes, contact Hyundai! See how far you get. I have already sent them emails and letters with no response! Did you not really read my post? Believe me, I have video of it. They know what happened! This is what I was trying to tell everyone! They don't care! If they did, they would have contacted us and apologized for almost killing me and my family!

harky

With all respect, Why still not post the dealers name and the VIN number of your vehicle?????

jsmit86

You have a video of the incident?

Can you post a link to it?

bobad

I have wondered about the failure modes of column-mounted electric power steering.

It's not complicated.

Power steering assist, whether electric or hydraulic, is just that, an assist. It's not directional, steering will be hard in both directions.

When it fails, you are steering the car manually. It's harder to steer, probably about twice the effort when the car is moving, 3x the effort when the car is not moving. It's hardly dangerous. Over the years, I've had power steering fail a couple of times, and it was aggravating, but not dangerous.

If someone would hit a huge pot hole, it could possibly break a ball joint and possibly pull the steering, but you're not going to drive the car very far with a broken ball joint.

mommyt

I do have proof. I also have witnesses. My husband and son were in the car when this happened. I also have video footage of the steering wheel jerking to the left while in park! The the video of the tow truck taking my car away. Hyundai knows this! They wanted the video, but I didn't give it to them.How about the phone bill with the call to the dealer on a Sunday? Then the call to the towing company. The dealership took the car back. What does that tell you? Do you think that I have enough to back it up? My lawyer seems to think so. I do not plan to go after them in any way. I only wanted to inform the public about the defect, of which Hyundai has no intention of doing. The dealership only sells the cars. Their name is not important here. No reason to drag the middleman into it. They did their jobs. Besides, Hyundai has all of the information because I sent it to them. The information that I have posted is the truth! :shades:

targettuning

You have video??? Why in the world were you shooting video as you were driving along? and mabe that was the "problem" driving while otherwise occupied? Seems too convenient...having video that is.

mommyt

No. Your not understanding the seriousness of this. I know what manual steering is. I understand that it is harder to steer when it is manual. The EPS has a safety feature. This feature is supposed to shut down the power steering at the "very second" there is a problem with the EPS pump.
I was driving down a "straight" road. The wheel jerked to the left. It happened so quickly that I was in the oncoming lane in the blink of an eye. I pulled the wheel to the right, using all of my strength to do so. It didn't want to turn to the right at all. The power steering was still there. I had to fight to keep the car on my side of the road. There were not pot holes, cracks, branches, dead animals, nothing. It certainly was not a bad ball joint either. I have some basic mechanical knowledge here. It was in the steering wheel. Would a busted ball joint make the steering wheel continuously jerk and vibrate to the left while in park?! I think not! :mad:

mommyt

The video was filmed once I was able to pull the car over! The steering wheel was still jerking to the left and vibrating!

mommyt

Thank you.

jsmit86

A couple of questions..

Can you give any more details about:
"red tagged (forbidden to drive) it and then red tagged 5 or 6 other 2011 sonata's on the lot"

> Was there any indication on why 5 or 6 cars were red tagged?

> Did they buy the car back from you? What is the status?

> Did anyone give you any indication of what caused the problem?

> Did anyone make any statements about why they would not want to warn others?

backy

If you really want to inform the public of this incident, one good way (which would also dispel all doubts about the validity of your story) is to post your video on YouTube (the video with the wheel jerking by itself). If you do that, can you please post the link to it here? Thanks.

targettuning

I also have my doubts on the authenticity of this whole history of failure. I may eat my words at some later date but for now...well, the wheel simply steered itself left while in park and you have a video? But you declined to cooperate with Hyundai by refusing to supply that same video to them yet you indicate your intentions are to inform 2011 Sonata owners? Don't you think that Hyundai would more effectively be involved if they could analyze your video? For your information the dealership does a lot more than sell cars, they also fix them and are a direct link to the manufacturer when the unexpected or unexplained happens to one of the manufacturers products. And, finally as others have said if after the Toyota debacle you believe for one second Hyundai would not be interested in this you are sadly mistaken. In todays hyper "potential auto failure without disclosure" mode Hyundai or any other auto manufacturer would be ripped to shreds by virtually everyone from the press to the NHTSA. Hyundai would be interested...VERY interested.

mexjohn

Yes, contact Hyundai! See how far you get. I have already sent them emails and letters with no response!

Maybe you are just simply unable to state your case in a believable fashion, but all your responses still don't make sense. How did you lose a lot of money? If this happened, it's a Hyundai Warranty issue, and you wouldn't have lost your new car either.

You continue to refuse to mention a dealer name, but that's who you must go through, and who would be refusing to help you if they are.

You also never answered my questions regarding how you knew two Korean Guys checked out yours and 5-6 other cars to "red flag" them, and how you know Hyundai is not going to tell anyone. If you had been in contact with the NHTSA, the information would get out post haste, and you wouldn't have to worry about what Hyundai does.

Your State Attorney General would be interested if you're getting now satisfaction from the dealer / Hyundai. There are many avenues you don't mention ever contacting, so why would people wish to believe a story so fraught with inconsistencies and stories that just don't make sense.

Post your video link and let us see it if you want to be believed.

mexjohn

This issue has gotten me to do some research, and there is evidence that some EPS systems can cause veering of the car to one side or another. Chevy and Toyota have both experienced this problem, and the internet as a lot of references if one is inclined to look for them.

I believe the systems work much differently that I had once thought, and can have problems that could be life-threatening. One article stated that cell phones could possibly even interrupt the proper signal.

Google Electric Power Steering Problems, Electric Power Steering veering problems etc.

Mommyt may be telling the truth, but the unwillingness to back up the statements makes it hard for folks to buy into it, a problem easily solved with some real evidence instead of more confusing statements.

jsmit86

Forum readers may be interested to read

http://www.myhyundaiforums.com/10-01-013.pdf

I wonder if this wiring harness issue my have any relevance?

Kirstie_H

I do understand why members would call the accuracy of this report into question, and that's fine. But let's stop alleging (on both sides) that poster A works for X motor company, or poster B works for Y motor company. In my many years here, I've seen those allegations hundreds and hundreds of times, and I believe there's only one time it was slightly accurate.

We do not "fact check" posts here - to do so would be overwhelmingly time consuming, and we in no way warrant that every post made here will be accurate. However, as some have mentioned, people can be held accountable (legally) for words they put into print for the public. This could be an interesting story to watch as, hopefully, more information is provided.

mommyt

We know someone on the inside.

The day after this happened, I asked the salesman if they had found out what made my car go out of control. He said that "they really didn't get a chance to investigate it, but lets just hope it's something simple like a" broken bolt" or something like that."
The salesmen were very nice about the whole situation, but insisted that this was an isolated situation.
After a couple of days, the salesman told us that the problem was a faulty electric power steering pump, but they can't figure out why the safety feature didn't shut down to manual steering right away.
My husband demanded to speak with the service department supervisor. He basically told us that the two Korean guys came down took a part out of my car and left. When my husband asked the service manager what they found wrong, the manager said that he didn't know because they didn't tell him. Wouldn't the service manager, or Shouldn't the service manager insist on knowing what the problem or cause was? My husband asked the service manager if there were any broken bolts. The manager said that there were none that he knew of. I asked him if they were going to check the rest of the 2011 sonatas in the lot to make sure that they didn't have the same problems. He said there is no reason for that because this is an isolated incident. I asked him if they were going to contact their customers and have them bring their cars in, just to be on the safe side. He said that there was no reason to because it is an isolated incident. He told us that it is all through the government. There has to be at least 40 reports before they will do any kind of a recall. I said "So 40 or more people have to wreck or be killed before they will do a recall?! He was not happy with us asking questions, because they are very limited as to what they can tell us. I asked how they know it is an isolated incident when they didn't check any others to be sure it is isolated. He kept changing the subject. It was just a big run around.
We went back over to the salesman. My husband asked if there were any broken bolts. He said "uhh... there was a broken bolt....but I think it broke when they were taking the power steering pump out though." (how would the salesman know about a broken bolt when the service manager didn't have any knowledge of it?)
When I told them that I didn't want the car back, the salesman stated, "We're going to wipe the slate clean, as if it never happened." They canceled everything out. Do you now understand? I am so afraid that someone is going to get hurt. I feel like I have to warn everyone. There are so many what if's. What if there was a car in the oncoming lane, what if this didn't happen until we were on the highway, etc...That car put me and my family into a very dangerous situation.

mexjohn

mommyt, thanks for posting this better information. It makes so much more sense when stated this way instead of the abbreviated, confusing way you posted it originally. There were too many unknowns.

So actually, you didn't lose a lot of money though since they "wiped the slate clean." Sometimes we humans have a tendency to exaggerate to make a point, but it serves no good purpose in this incident.

Thank you for taking the time to warn folks. I suspect we should all be more vigilant driving with EPS as there ARE indications that several manufacturers have had some veering problems.

Kirstie_H

I understand your fear and frustration, but please know that manufacturers could not possibly issue recalls on all vehicles when an isolated safety incident occurs, no matter how serious. Recalls cost LOTS of money, and if they did as you suggested, no vehicle would be priced under $50,000.

Additionally, there doesn't seem to be any evidence (yet) that there's a pervasive manufacturing defect. YOUR vehicle may have had some bad part, or have experienced another manufacturing defect. But it's highly possible that it is only your car, or only a handful of cars, which they can hopefully track down.

But there's simply no way a manufacturer could provide vehicles at any affordable cost if they issued a product-wide recall for each incident experienced by each consumer.

mommyt

Yes, I am kind of upset with this whole thing. I only wanted to let people know that there is a problem. I didn't intend for it to blow up. But, it did....maybe it was a good thing because a lot of people noticed.
I had to pay for insurance throughout the whole ordeal. This was a month that I had to pay for two cars instead of just one. I also had to place a large sum of money down on a new car, because of the existing loan on the sonata. Not that I lost the money put down on another car, but I wouldn't have had to take that money out of my account. You know what I mean? I needed that money for other things.
I don't have the disc (video) with me right now, but I will get it on youtube and post the link asap..
Thank you.

backy

FWIW, you should check with your insurance company... most policies cover personal rental car use, thus you should not have to pay for extra coverage on the rental car. I learned that lesson many years ago, and have saved lots of money since then.

aqua33v6

Ok, so while all of America waits for this smoking gun video to be posted, all the thousands of potential Sonata buyers postpone their trip to the Hyundai dealership. What ever will Hyundai do to recover from this?

I hope you don't wait too long to post that video.

mommyt

I understand that it would be very expensive for them to recall for each incident, but life threatening is different. A hand full of cars with the same defective part could cost at least a hand full of lives. Think of it this way. There were three people in my car. What if there was a minivan in the oncoming lane with a pregnant young mother and her two toddlers? What if the minivan was about to pass by a little girl riding her bicycle? What if there was a car behind the minivan driven by a teen age boy on a date with his girlfriend. How many would survive? How would you explain this to the police if you survived? These are the things that I think of because it happened so quickly. It scares me to death knowing that it could happen again. I know the manufacturer isn't going to warn anyone. That is why I am.

backy

OK... a few things:

1) Every time you drive a car, you put your life and the lives of every one on board at risk. (Also, every time you board a plane, every time you cross a street, every time you eat something (food poisoning), etc. etc.). Life is full of risks.

2) It isn't possible to make a perfect car for a price anyone would be able to pay for it. There's thousands of parts in a car, many of which can cause a life-threatening accident if there's a flaw in the part.

3) Statistically, the odds of a life-threatening accident because of a failure or design flaw in a car is quite low. But it's not zero. Some people are unlucky enough to be one of those affected by one of those problems.

4) It's premature to say Hyundai isn't going to warn anyone. What would they say if they were to warn everyone today? They will want to investigate this issue so they can take appropriate action. For example, if the problem can be traced to a certain parts lot, it is possible to trace down the cars and owners of those affected cars. Or if it's a general problem, then a more general warning and action can be taken.

mommyt

Ha Ha.....You still don't get it do you? You must be a very self-centered person.
I am not trying to stop anyone from buying. I am only letting them know that there is an issue of which could be dangerous.
No car is without faults.
If something like that had happened to you, wouldn't you want to warn everyone? People know the issues with Toyota, and they still purchase them.
I get the feeling that no matter what I say, you will only reply with some snide comment.

mommyt

Thank you.

Kirstie_H

The warning is appreciated - I think you ran into some issues initially because you posted the same message all over the place, which our regular members know isn't acceptable.

I think the larger objection is to the idea that Hyundai should now take more all-encompassing action due to your experience. I think backy did a pretty good job of outlining some of the reasons why this isn't going to happen - with your case, or with any other isolated case of a potential (but yet unproven) safety issue. The final bullet point is most compelling. What would they say? We want to warn everyone that someone driving our vehicle had an issue. We don't know why. We don't know that it's related to the vehicle itself at all. We don't know if it's a part, bad installation, or whether something got damaged while you were driving, or anything. It's just not possible for manufacturers to do this, and doesn't make sense.

mommyt

Why is it so important that you know the name of the dealership and the vin?

wolverinejoe80

No one will believe you unless you show us the reason to believe you.

sjwr

It seems the reason your posts are continuously looked upon as suspicious is bcus you still refuse to give the dealership name & is slow to give anyone a look at the video that you have taken & is giving what seems like various excuses saying that you don't have the video now & that the dealersship has nothing to do with this incident, & asking people why they would need to know the name of the dealer & vin number....
Yet, you seem to have the time to keep replying to other people here with the same old repeated story, giving what seems like excuses, & not backing up anything from your story with hard facts...

It would be easier for you to make your case & be believed if you could present your video, the dealership name, vin number of your vehicle, & other facts...

PS. You remind me of the movie: 'Catch Me If You Can'.... I think I'll have to see this movie again this week. Thanks for reminding me!...

wolverinejoe80

There was a guy who fooled everyone that he had a Koenigsegg, IS-F, and R8 in Lexus forum. He had 2000 posts all about his cars, and everyone believed him. he finally got busted, but he still fooled everyone that he was a rich business man who owns exotic cars. he posted pics, vin numbers, and etc. Much more carefully orchestrated than your poor attempt.

You have a long way to go to craft the art. Nice try though. i would say 3/10

jsmit86

At this point, I think that mommyt has added enough detail to clarify her situation.
I have no reason to think that she did not have an issue. (Although I was very skeptical from the first posting for all of the reasons we have already hashed to death )

I will assume that Hyundai has the vehicle, and the VIN, and will investigate if there is any design or material defect.

I would not post the VIN on a public forum. If mommyt has any doubt that this has reached the right level at HMMA, perhaps she could share the info via PM with the poster from HMMA. Again, I suspect that the issue has been well communicated, and is being researched.

As others have posted, it is always possible for an anomaly to occur. It can happen to any vehicle. Fortunately issues like this are generally extremely rare, but if they happen to you, you will have a different perspective. I can understand that.

I think that Kirstie did a good job pointing out that manufacturers are challenged with balancing the need to make sure we all drive safe cars, with the need to make sure that they have their facts in order before issuing a TSB or a recall.

If you search, you will see that the 2011 Sonata has already had a few TSB's issued. The door lock issue illustrates that they take safety seriously. If you read that TSB/Recall notice, you will see that the door lock only failed when someone tried to lock and open the door at the same time. (IIRC) While that is a pretty unlikely event, it in fact did happen, was discovered, and a fix was developed.
If mommyt's problem is something that is repeatable, I have no doubt that we will see a fix for it.

schdy

What about the other 5 or 6 cars that have the same problem as you. Did the dealer remove their Power steering pumps or do they have broken bolts. Did the Dealer wipe them clean of their deals. You have not been clear on that part of your post.
By giving us the name of the Dealer it will allow us and/or Hyundai to validate your serious safety post and give us a reason to return our cars for a safety check. The VIN number will tell us when and where your car was built.
Was it an SE,Limited or GLS.

mommyt

I understand. I learned my lesson with posting everywhere. Sorry people. Won't do that again.
We did not get the answers either. They took parts out of the car to analyze.
We didn't want this to be swept under the rug. That is what it felt like when we tried to contact Hyundai and did not get any response.
It makes us wonder how many others "if any" have had this happen and they just dismissed it with them like they did with us? You see....no answers makes you get kind of crazy. :P

schdy

What about the other 6 cars mommyt reported? And from the same Dealer. That sounds like a serious problem.

schdy

Maybe when they look at the other 6 cars with the same problem you reported at the same Dealer we will get an answer from Hyundai!