I sure hope we don't send all of those junkers to China, someday they may all fall out of the sky on us when the Chinese decide they need a place to expand.
If this did not bring on a sales surge then you can color me stupid.
You're saying no one anticipated the C4C program and none of the folks in your showroom had put off their purchases until the program was in place to take advantage of the rebate? How do you color your customers?
Hey Billsbuddie, I test drove an Elantra Touring a couple of weeks ago. At the time, there was $1,500 manufacturer to dealer incentive. That went away at the first of August. Our salesperson didn't mention it to us but we didn't get very far in the negotiations either so I didn't bring it up.
But that may account for some of the price difference. I think FitzMall was giving the $1,500 hood money to their customers for example. They have 2 MTs in stock tonight, both for under $16k internet price; add $1k to $2k for the ATs depending on the style.
I thought the Touring was a nice ride and it's very well equipped. The MT one we liked (except for the color) is still at the dealer here in Boise if you can believe their webpage inventory. In fact, they still list about all of them that were there a couple of weeks ago. People just don't want to buy a "wagon" so stick to your guns negotiating.
I think you are right, Steve. I liked the hatch myself. I am currently driving a Mazda Tribute and the Touring seemed to have about the same amount of space inside, nice and roomy. I like the flexibility of a hatch, I had a VW Golf that I liked a lot. The dust will settle sooner or later and then I will do the deal, now is not the time.
Yes, it disqualifies you. We paid a registration 6 days late, even though that's not officially late here because of a grace period, and were denied. We've owned the car for 7 years, and it's been registered to us and insured the whole time, but that lapse meant it was not continuous. If you read the bill, I don't think that was what they intended, but NHST gave it a very restrictive definition.
The dealer if the manufacture doesn't back them. Many dealers jump the gun before the ever changing rules for qualifying cars was released and they continue to change as the US government sees fit.
If you buy 2 new cars in 4 years, then you are probably better off leasing.
I think I could have stated that more clearly. We have bought 2 new cars, one is mine one is my wifes. We still have both and we will likely keep each one for over 10 years.
It's sad that your sister and you label people "cheap" simply because they do not want to spend their money on products and services that they do not want.
It's more than that. It's trying to sell people things that are really a bad value for them (but very lucrative for the dealer). It's one of the things that gives dealerships and salespeople a bad rep.
No, you don't have to buy everything they offer you, but what does it take to get a maintenance plan that saves you money on oil changes, etc.?
Well, we did buy a lifetime oil change plan from the dealer when we bought our 2002 Outback. What wasn't made clear to us at the time was that, since it was an LL Bean edition, 3 years worth of oil changes came with the vehicle anyway. After 3 years, the oil change plan we paid for kicked in. Then after 2 years, the dealer suddenly canceled the plan. I had to threaten them with small claims court action to get a refund for the "lifetime" plan I had paid for.
So, never again. Take your extended warranties, maintenance plans, lo jack locators, rust coating, etc, and dump them off a cliff. I feel sorry for your sister who has to make living trying to sell people that kind of crap.
If the people here were as savy with there money as they say not one of them would walk out of the store without a maintanence plan. I sell a 45000 mile plan for $795, covers all scheduled maintanence, it also covers all the wear items to include windshield wiper blades, brakes, belts, hoses, etc. There is no place in the world you can properly service your car for 3 years for $795.
First of all, a decent vehicle nowadays shouldn't need much maintenance in it's first 45,000 miles anyway. Handful of oil changes, maybe some wiper blades, front pads (maybe), that's it. And don't tell about topping off all the fluids!
I can do all the maintenance items you listed in my garage for less than a third of the $795 figure you mentioned.
LOL I can just see some guy coming in to trade his clunker with no radio, doors, windshield,seats or tires. There are some people out there that are THAT cheap.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If I were going to "clunk" a vehicle, I'd take out ANYTHING of value before trading it in. As ISell mentioned, you can sell all sorts of stuff on craigslist.
I learned my lesson when my minivan was totalled. I just took the check and said goodbye to the vehicle. My best friend was FURIOUS with me - it was a loaded-up model, and he wanted us to strip it (leather seats, DVD player, and who knows what else) and sell the stuff.
As long as it's still driveable, the rest doesn't seem necessary since it's just going to be junked.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I recently bought a Ford Focus to leave at my house in South Carolina so when I fly down I have a decent car. The Focus MSRP was 22,305. After all incentives, loyalty, rebates, and (4,500 from Cash for Clunkers dollars for a 1994 GMC Safari I had rotting in South Carolina) I got the car for 13,105. The car is fully loaded, leather, heated seats, sunroof, sync, spoiler, 17 inch wheels, automatic. Did I do good? I know the car drives like a slug, steering is horrible aswell, but for 13,000, I thought it was a bargain.
Let's see--you bought a car you won't drive much, and don't like. I'd say, considering that, you probably overpaid. You could've purchased an equally unnecessary PT Cruiser for far less. Then again, since you have a second (third?) home, you obviously didn't need the money at all.
I had to replace mine at 50K miles, and anybody can find out how notorious the Ford's troubles have been by googling all the problems Ford owners have had.
This was a few years back, but I remember the guy who runs the local transmission shop told me that three of the most common tranny replacements he did were the Ford Explorer, the Caravan/Voyager, and any GM truck with the 4L60E transmission. Now part of it could just be that all three of those are very popular vehicles. Maybe their popularity has waned in more recent years, but there are still a lot of older examples of those three on the roads.
A lot of people here (and I count myself among them) would like to know why we should be subsidizing the purchase of a vehicle you don't need, to keep at an "extra" home you also obviously don't need.
How often do you go down to South Carolina? I'd say for $13K, the car sounds decent if it's a fully-loaded model. But wouldn't it still be cheaper in the long run to just get a rental car when you're down there?
I was wondering about that. If we brought in our '98 Grand Voyager should I keep the two removable back seats (cloth)? Would there be any marketable value to them?
If we brought in our '98 Grand Voyager should I keep the two removable back seats (cloth)? Would there be any marketable value to them?
Probably not much. My mechanic sometimes goes to junkyards looking for those types of seats. Usually the junkyard will just give them to him, or let him have them for a pittance. He uses them for cheap seats for out on the deck, basement rec room, etc.
You can't strip a vehicle that has been totalled if you accept a check from the insurance company. The wrecked car and all of its equipment then belongs to them , not to you.
As for CforC, removing a good stereo from the vehicle makes some sense, if it is worth anything. Ditto with brand new tires, if you can find some very cheap replacements.
If I had the money right now, I would put an A4 Cabriolet down there, so I could have an Audi in Jersey and in SC... So obviously money was part of the issue. There is no need to make snotty assumptions.
If I had the money right now, I would put an A4 Cabriolet down there, so I could have an Audi in Jersey and in SC... So obviously money was part of the issue.
Well if you're used to an Audi, at least that explains why the Focus feels like it handle like crap to you! :P
Also, I went into the dealer for a base focus sedan, but they had none. I have no need for heated seats obviously in south carolina, not to mention leather.
I pay taxes too, not to mention 15,000 a year on a New Jersey home, and 7,000 on my shore house in South Carolina, and 2,000 on a piece of property I own. Why am I not aloud to make use of a free 4,500 dollars? You are rude, I came on here to see if 13,000 was a good price for a car and get harassed over the internet. Typical.
I should not assume that someone with two homes has sufficient money to afford a car without dipping into my tax dollars?
I guess I don't really care. I mean, the gov't made the money available and didn't put a stipulation on it, that only people with a net worth of less than $XXX can use the C4C. Actually, maybe that's why they put the $45K or whatever price cap on the new car purchase, to discourage the truly rich from taking advantage of this...although I doubt too many truly-rich are driving around in clunkers that would qualify. And those that are, are probably tight enough with their money that they're not going to blow $45K on a new car.
Plus, in a case like this, that Focus purchase is still a bit of a boon to the economy. Sure, he got a $4500 incentive, courtesy of the taxpayers, to do it (I'd assume he's a taxpayer too). But in the process, he's still putting $13,000 into the economy, in the form of monthly payments, sales tax, etc. Plus, increased insurance payments, and whatever additional costs that may go along with it.
That's only partially correct. The insurance company (or at least MY company) allows you to buy back the totalled vehicle at a super-bargain price. It would've been worth it in my case.
And while the cloth seats might not have been worth much, if anything, there's more of a market for the leather seats given that they can be swapped out for cloth seats. We did actually check into this! And, my tires were nearly brand-spankin' new.
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and, it's an economic stimulus bill, not a "help the poor" bill. It was intended to boost automobile sales. The side benefit is that it happens to benefit some people who would otherwise be a few thousand short of being able to purchase a new vehicle.
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Yes, I think you did pretty good. Many dealers were pulling crap like giving nothing off of MSRP because "You are already getting 3K out of Ford, and 4.5K out of the government - aren't you being greedy?" Sounds like you got the dealer down from some of his profit.
We are fascinated with getting every last penny out of a car deal that we can - I am no exception. MAYBE you could have fought for another $100 or wasted $75 in gas driving all around to find a dealer who would save you that extra $100. Or you can quit worrying about competing to get a better deal than the next guy and pay that extra $100 and skip dinner out with your spouse - you didn't need the calories anyway.
Tha'ts not to say good deals and rip offs don't exist, but we tend to get obsessed about getting the absolute best deal, often to our own personal detriment. It sounds like you got a good deal. But, whenever you buy a car, there is somebody out there that will tell you he could have gotten a better deal than the one you got.
I don't think you actually could have convinced yourself to buy that, if you think the Focus handles "like a slug".
I didn't realize it was even possible to get a Focus up to the MSRP you mentioned :surprise: . It sounds like you bought far more car than you had initially intended, so hopefully the clunker was a real crapmobile.
When it came time to trade in my 98 Ford F150 i did do a sort of strip and/or swap. I sold my camper top and factory trailer hitch. I swapped out the good condition seats with ones not so. Same goes for the tires with mag wheels, battery, tailgate, wipers, carpets, headlamps (blue), etc. I got $500 extra for that stuff which I added to my money down. The truck still brought $4,500 plus full salvage value. Why give it to the scrap yard when you can sell it first. BTW, if I could have get a buyer for the windshield, doors, etc. I would have done it. Another $500 would have been nice.
I'm not opposed to this program entirely, and I used it. But if I were designing it I would have:
1. Given it as a tax credit instead of a rebate from the government. This insures that those who actually have an income, and can afford some payments are the ones buying. Sure, these people could lose their jobs, but it would filter out some who really should not be buying a new car due to no incomes.
2. Given it to everyone who trades up to a better mileage vehicle of some level - say 6 mpg better and I would not have limited the time frame. I'd rather pay less taxes than to pay them and get them back as a rebate. Makes better sense and gives the tax payer better control of their tax money. This would have eliminated the rush to buy some cars - and theydid run out of some models. It also would have encouraged people to get a few more miles out of their older vehicles, which IMO always saves energy. Consumption does tend to oppose conservation.
3. I would not have destroyed the clunkers engines arbitrarily. Many had a few years left on them. I would have left them die a natural death - why rush the process? It will eventually happen anyway. I am one who expects cars to go 200,000 miles. But many are from the old school who think a car is all used up by the time it reaches 100,000 mi. I would have allowed the dealers to donate them to the charities. I think getting an extra 20,000 mi out of a car that runs is more energy efficient than producing a new one with slightly better mileage for that 20,000 miles. IOW use things up before throwing it out and getting a new one would, overall, save more energy. The usefullness of a car is not necessarily reflected in its KBB value.
I had bought a 1994 GMC Safari brand new around 15 years ago now. It was a great car, drove it to 171k miles. I had to get rid of it, the AC failed three times and the charges weren't worth it because the car was hardly driven. 4,500 Dollars wasn't bad at all. If I recall I bought it brand new for around 17k. Hopefully this Focus is built as touch as the Safari.
Comments
You're saying no one anticipated the C4C program and none of the folks in your showroom had put off their purchases until the program was in place to take advantage of the rebate? How do you color your customers?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
But that may account for some of the price difference. I think FitzMall was giving the $1,500 hood money to their customers for example. They have 2 MTs in stock tonight, both for under $16k internet price; add $1k to $2k for the ATs depending on the style.
I thought the Touring was a nice ride and it's very well equipped. The MT one we liked (except for the color) is still at the dealer here in Boise if you can believe their webpage inventory. In fact, they still list about all of them that were there a couple of weeks ago. People just don't want to buy a "wagon" so stick to your guns negotiating.
Steve, just a passing through host
The dust will settle sooner or later and then I will do the deal, now is not the time.
Us too, and it looks like the $2 billion is going to happen from that FoxNews link someone posted in here not long ago.
Let's stick with the clunkers discussion.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
If that happens there should be some great deals on a bunch of low milage "used" cars.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think I could have stated that more clearly. We have bought 2 new cars, one is mine one is my wifes. We still have both and we will likely keep each one for over 10 years.
It's more than that. It's trying to sell people things that are really a bad value for them (but very lucrative for the dealer). It's one of the things that gives dealerships and salespeople a bad rep.
Well, we did buy a lifetime oil change plan from the dealer when we bought our 2002 Outback. What wasn't made clear to us at the time was that, since it was an LL Bean edition, 3 years worth of oil changes came with the vehicle anyway. After 3 years, the oil change plan we paid for kicked in. Then after 2 years, the dealer suddenly canceled the plan. I had to threaten them with small claims court action to get a refund for the "lifetime" plan I had paid for.
So, never again. Take your extended warranties, maintenance plans, lo jack locators, rust coating, etc, and dump them off a cliff. I feel sorry for your sister who has to make living trying to sell people that kind of crap.
Or "demonstrators." Or maybe executive-owned...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
First of all, a decent vehicle nowadays shouldn't need much maintenance in it's first 45,000 miles anyway. Handful of oil changes, maybe some wiper blades, front pads (maybe), that's it. And don't tell about topping off all the fluids!
I can do all the maintenance items you listed in my garage for less than a third of the $795 figure you mentioned.
LOL I can just see some guy coming in to trade his clunker with no radio, doors, windshield,seats or tires. There are some people out there that are THAT cheap.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I learned my lesson when my minivan was totalled. I just took the check and said goodbye to the vehicle. My best friend was FURIOUS with me - it was a loaded-up model, and he wanted us to strip it (leather seats, DVD player, and who knows what else) and sell the stuff.
As long as it's still driveable, the rest doesn't seem necessary since it's just going to be junked.
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This was a few years back, but I remember the guy who runs the local transmission shop told me that three of the most common tranny replacements he did were the Ford Explorer, the Caravan/Voyager, and any GM truck with the 4L60E transmission. Now part of it could just be that all three of those are very popular vehicles. Maybe their popularity has waned in more recent years, but there are still a lot of older examples of those three on the roads.
Probably not much. My mechanic sometimes goes to junkyards looking for those types of seats. Usually the junkyard will just give them to him, or let him have them for a pittance. He uses them for cheap seats for out on the deck, basement rec room, etc.
As for CforC, removing a good stereo from the vehicle makes some sense, if it is worth anything. Ditto with brand new tires, if you can find some very cheap replacements.
Well if you're used to an Audi, at least that explains why the Focus feels like it handle like crap to you! :P
I see. Pardon my intrusion. Will there be anything else, sir?
Typical.
I guess I don't really care. I mean, the gov't made the money available and didn't put a stipulation on it, that only people with a net worth of less than $XXX can use the C4C. Actually, maybe that's why they put the $45K or whatever price cap on the new car purchase, to discourage the truly rich from taking advantage of this...although I doubt too many truly-rich are driving around in clunkers that would qualify. And those that are, are probably tight enough with their money that they're not going to blow $45K on a new car.
Plus, in a case like this, that Focus purchase is still a bit of a boon to the economy. Sure, he got a $4500 incentive, courtesy of the taxpayers, to do it (I'd assume he's a taxpayer too). But in the process, he's still putting $13,000 into the economy, in the form of monthly payments, sales tax, etc. Plus, increased insurance payments, and whatever additional costs that may go along with it.
Focus is nothing exciting, but it's not a truly bad car.
And while the cloth seats might not have been worth much, if anything, there's more of a market for the leather seats given that they can be swapped out for cloth seats. We did actually check into this! And, my tires were nearly brand-spankin' new.
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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Review your vehicle
Thank you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just curious but where in South Carolina? I've spent some time in various beach areas in the past in the Charleston Low Country.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
We are fascinated with getting every last penny out of a car deal that we can - I am no exception. MAYBE you could have fought for another $100 or wasted $75 in gas driving all around to find a dealer who would save you that extra $100. Or you can quit worrying about competing to get a better deal than the next guy and pay that extra $100 and skip dinner out with your spouse - you didn't need the calories anyway.
Tha'ts not to say good deals and rip offs don't exist, but we tend to get obsessed about getting the absolute best deal, often to our own personal detriment. It sounds like you got a good deal. But, whenever you buy a car, there is somebody out there that will tell you he could have gotten a better deal than the one you got.
Disregard the naysayers.
My brother-in-law has an 8 figure net worth and used C4C to dump a 1990 Jeep Cherokee for a new Toyota Corolla.
You did fine.
I don't think you actually could have convinced yourself to buy that, if you think the Focus handles "like a slug".
I didn't realize it was even possible to get a Focus up to the MSRP you mentioned :surprise: . It sounds like you bought far more car than you had initially intended, so hopefully the clunker was a real crapmobile.
I'm not opposed to this program entirely, and I used it. But if I were designing it I would have:
1. Given it as a tax credit instead of a rebate from the government. This insures that those who actually have an income, and can afford some payments are the ones buying. Sure, these people could lose their jobs, but it would filter out some who really should not be buying a new car due to no incomes.
2. Given it to everyone who trades up to a better mileage vehicle of some level - say 6 mpg better and I would not have limited the time frame. I'd rather pay less taxes than to pay them and get them back as a rebate. Makes better sense and gives the tax payer better control of their tax money. This would have eliminated the rush to buy some cars - and theydid run out of some models. It also would have encouraged people to get a few more miles out of their older vehicles, which IMO always saves energy. Consumption does tend to oppose conservation.
3. I would not have destroyed the clunkers engines arbitrarily. Many had a few years left on them. I would have left them die a natural death - why rush the process? It will eventually happen anyway. I am one who expects cars to go 200,000 miles. But many are from the old school who think a car is all used up by the time it reaches 100,000 mi. I would have allowed the dealers to donate them to the charities. I think getting an extra 20,000 mi out of a car that runs is more energy efficient than producing a new one with slightly better mileage for that 20,000 miles. IOW use things up before throwing it out and getting a new one would, overall, save more energy. The usefullness of a car is not necessarily reflected in its KBB value.
I had bought a 1994 GMC Safari brand new around 15 years ago now. It was a great car, drove it to 171k miles. I had to get rid of it, the AC failed three times and the charges weren't worth it because the car was hardly driven. 4,500 Dollars wasn't bad at all. If I recall I bought it brand new for around 17k. Hopefully this Focus is built as touch as the Safari.