I had a guy lie under his Jeep Cherokee in 100 degree heat and unbolt his rusty old trailer hitch, He pulled the worthless stock cassette player and enything else that he though might be of some value.
Fine with me but selling and shipping these items probably won't be worth the effort.
Oh, and he made sure there was so little gas in it that it ran out as I was parking it.
"and, it's an economic stimulus bill, not a "help the poor" bill. It was intended to boost automobile sales. The side benefit is that it happens to benefit some people who would otherwise be a few thousand short of being able to purchase a new vehicle."
Absolutely right! My wife and I are two such people..
NHTSA created a support case on Monday and then immediately closed it. I replied asking if the case needs to be kept open until there is a resolution. The case status was changed to open. On Tuesday morning, they closed the case again. Is this the way government work for us?
1) the lending institutions will make sure folks are qualified. Since credit is harder to come by, many places are looking beyond credit scores and including debt to income ratios. Ask the salesmen who hang out on these forums about how hard it has been to get people qualified over the past year.
2) Not a bad idea but would have had to offer this program in January/February to make sure the manufacturers are producing sufficient cars. One problem that some manufacturers are having is this is the end of their model year and they have stopped production. The good thing is people are choosing more efficient cars. The numbers released this weekend show the cars consumers have chosen average 25.4 mpg, which is 7.4 mpg higher than the upper gas mileage limit of the program. So in essence this program is doing what you are proposing.
3) who chooses which engines gets destroyed and which don't? Who gets the money from the saved engines? I agree that many of the cars do have useful life but you are opening up a Pandora's box by choosing arbitrarily.
I'm not completely happy with this program either but it's the one stimulus program that gives the average American a break while helping local businesses. Car dealerships effect so much in the communities beyond the employees they hire. Plus Ford seems like the big winner as they are expected to announce an increase in sales for July.
and, it's an economic stimulus bill, not a "help the poor" bill. It was intended to boost automobile sales
Don't forget the environment. It was also meant to get those gas guzzling/polluting/ozone destroying/green house gas emitting and global warming producing jalopies off the road. :sick:
3. Nobody chooses. all of the C4C engines are distroyed. IT is such a painful process to me, I couldn't watch.
Some of these are sweet running, well maintained engines that have many years of life left.
I'd like to see what the average typical C4C vehicle looks like. Probably not on it's last legs as many would like to believe. My MIL traded in a very nice running 1998 Plymouth Voyager in very good condition. I think it is such a waste to destroy vehicles like this. Let the dealership put a value on any vehicle worth more than say $1,500. Let them donate the car to charity and use the donation as a tax write off.
I know that many have useful life. I was responding to maryh's post about choosing which cars don't get destroyed. I would have liked to see some other option but this raises more issues if you don't destroy them all.
I went car shopping yesterday after fully reviewing the Cash for Klunkers program on the goverment website. My conversation with the saleman was somewhat amusing.
1.- he told me that if for some reason the dealership didn't get reimbursed the $4500 for my vehicle, that I am obligated to pay it & that they "might" give me something for my trade-in.
2. - I brought up the point about how the dealer is supposed to disclose an estimate scrap value of my trade-in because that sum is supposed to be deducted from the purchase price of the new car.
He stated that they really don't know that much about that part of the program and also how they have to pay to have the trade in's hauled off so it's really kind of a wash. He said that I was the first customer that pushed the issue.
Pleading "dumb" in my book is not going to get you very far.
I told him that I wasn't "pushing" any issue and reminded him that it is clearly part of the program that the dealers are supposed to be following & that it was hard for me to believe that the dealership didn't review the program with their sales staff.
I pointed out to him that they shouldn't be passing the removal of the vehicle on to the buyer.
It is interesting that they were trying to make me feel like I should pay to have my trade-in removed, when the dealerships are in fact making money here.
After all, they are not having to pay for our trade-in's, but are actually getting paid for them by the government.
One the one hand, we would eventually replace the car so the program only served to "pull in" the date of the next car purchase. On the other hand, in order to justify the sale to ourselves, we needed to see additional savings in addition to the $4500 credit, so we focused only on high MPG hybrids which we figure will save us between $1k and $2k per year, depending on the price of gas. Additionally, the repair costs over the next few years for the clunker would not be insubstantial, so we figure we are trading an up front payment for a couple of thousand a year in repair bills, and hopefully getting dependable transportation in the process.
If there was no C4C program, we probably would have gone for another 3-4 years and then looked around at what interesting vehicles there were. I'm not sure we are going to see much fundamental change in the type of car out there for at least the next few years - maybe 4-5 years from now there will be something compelling, but I don't see something more compelling then what is on the market today arriving in the next couple of years. The possible exception are some PHEV but it sounds like it will take a few years on the market for them to mature enough for us to consider investing in them.
You are rude, I came on here to see if 13,000 was a good price for a car and get harassed over the internet.
Don't worry about it. Anyone that makes an average wage pays plenty in the way of taxes. You'd be a fool not to take your fare share of a giveaway program. If I were in the market with a clunker, I'd be all over that program.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
How long does it typically take to get an approval from the government? I submitted my paperwork to the dealer yesterday and I do not want to take delivery before it is approved, since I will be responsible for the $4500 if for some reason it is denied.
How long does it typically take to get an approval from the government? I submitted my paperwork to the dealer yesterday and I do not want to take delivery before it is approved, since I will be responsible for the $4500 if for some reason it is denied.
Darn...too late for me; I'll be in Myrtle next week. If I knew you a few weeks back, before I made my arrangements, I'd have asked you to leave the keys under the mat.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"1. Given it as a tax credit instead of a rebate from the government. This insures that those who actually have an income, and can afford some payments are the ones buying. Sure, these people could lose their jobs, but it would filter out some who really should not be buying a new car due to no incomes."
First of all, a tax credit would not have immediately reduced the net price of the car like the government voucher did. You would have to wait until this year's taxes are done and refunds issued. Second, if you have a tax credit you get that money whether you have income or not. All you have to do is file a tax return with all zeros for income, but list the tax credit. A tax deduction on the other hand means that you would not pay taxes on either $3,500 or $4,500. As an example, if you are in the 20% tax bracket it would save you only $700 or $900 respectively. It appears that the government plan was a far better deal for the consumers than what you have proposed.
"2. - I brought up the point about how the dealer is supposed to disclose an estimate scrap value of my trade-in because that sum is supposed to be deducted from the purchase price of the new car."
Several dealers are playing dumb about the net salvage value. That means on average an extra $250 in their pocket. That's what most salvagers are paying for the cars. The dealers are suppose to keep $50, but they are trying to keep all $250. I purchased a Rav4 through the program. The dealer told me on the 24th that they had not determined the salvage value as the program had just started two hours earlier, but that it would be sent to me later. I went along with that, but sent him an email a few days later to remind him of the arrangement. He wrote back that they were finalizing the removal of their clunkers and that he would get back with me. I kept a copy of the email should I need it in the future.
The whole thing about car dealers is how much of your money they get to keep. Nothing is wrong with that as long as they stay within the rules, not guidelines, of the program. If I get my net salvage value in a few days after they settle up with the salvage yard, I'll be OK with that. On the other hand, if they try to shaft me then I'll turn them in on the fraud hotline for the program. All I'm asking for is that they follow the program just like I had to. Nothing more, nothing less.
13k for a loaded focus looks like a good deal. i had an 08 as a loaner with 15k on it for a few days. power seemed fine and the computer read 33mpg. i had an '04 and the newer ones don't have the same steering feel. a couple of other things. assuming the car is an automatic, it is going to take a while for the drivetrain to break in. up to 10k. also, if you think the handling is sloppy, add some air to the tires. it may perk things up a bit.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Second, if you have a tax credit you get that money whether you have income or not. All you have to do is file a tax return with all zeros for income, but list the tax credit.
Gotta love it when someone tries to correct someone else and doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Is that you, Secretary Geithner?
The local Toyota dealer in La Crosse, WI told us they will not write anymore cash for clunker deals up. They have 65 cars waiting for approval. They did not deliver ANY cars unless they got an approval--so far they have gotten one approval. I asked what about if this additional $2B gets passed this week? They told me they figure that $2B has already been spent as well based on their conversations with other dealers.
I know you already got the Focus-but in MHO there are much better options in that price range-Toyota Matrix/Corolla/Pontiac Vibe,,Nissan Versa/Sentra,Scions,Hyundai Elantra,Kia Forte-all much better than the Focus which is pretty much a decade old platform with minor changes. But now that u have it,,enjoy the Focus~~ :shades:
For goodness sake, the Ford Focus is a great small car. You don't have to apologize to these people. I used to sell both models, and you get more bang for your buck with the Focus.
You should in no way, shape, or form be responsible if for some reason the gov't denies things. Don't let a dealer tell you otherwise - if you agree to that, they have no incentive to go through the hassle of doing to paperwork - they can just say - "Sorry, bud, but it didn't go through - you owe us another $4500" No, no, no.
The best compromise that I've seen so far - you do all of the paperwork at the dealer - sign everything etc. etc. The dealer holds both your new car and your old car until the gov't approves the deal. If the deal is approved by the gov't, you drive away in the new car, if not, you drive away in the old car and tear up all of the paperwork. Some dealers are even giving a loaner car while your clunker is sitting on their lot waiting for the paperwork to go through. This seems like a reasonable way to protect both the dealer and the consumer. This is possible now because the dealer doesn't have to disable to clunker engine until they receive official notification from the gov't, so they can simply hold both cars until everything is approved.
I was looking at the lowest model Civic possible, I don't remember the name of it. It looked like a piece of crap. The dealer said he could take no more then 200 dollars off the msrp of the car after for cash for clunkers.
Do they still make a DX with things like window cranks?
That Focus is a fine choice for what you want out of it.
Meanwhile, ignore those that think you don't belong in the program. You fit within the rules and the timing was right for you. I'd have done the same thing.
Heck, if they set it up so you could junk a clunker that got good mileage for a new car that got great mileage i might have been in myself. I don't have any cars that qualify.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I think the Focus is a great deal, and a great car. Ford Sync is a great stereo. My wife has a 2007 and loves it, even without the Sync. The Focus does not hold it's value well, so getting it for 13k will help offset that. The resale value is the only thing that I would say is a disadvantage against "the imports". Have fun in your Focus, and it should be very reliable.
I agree with you and would almost certainly take the Civic myself but that doesn't mean there's much wrong with the Focus. It's a fine car. Nothing has depreciation like Honda.
Heck, he's in Jersey and is going to put minuscule miles on it. Let me know when you're selling!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Don't forget the environment. It was also meant to get those gas guzzling/polluting/ozone destroying/green house gas emitting and global warming producing jalopies off the road
Sorry this simply is incorrect. It has little or nothing to do with any greenie program except tangentially. The reason the gas guzzlin clunker engines must be destroyed is because the national security interests want them destroyed so that they'll never burn fuel again.
In the future we will burn less fuel, each of us, as we drive our vehicles. It is the unspoken official policy of the Federal Govt. National security supercedes our individual preferences.
Anyone know why fueleconomy.gov doesn't list the 4WD Suburban for 1998 and 1999? They appear to be Category 1 vehicles based on GVWR but there is no mileage rating.
In addition, they list the 1995 4WD Suburban but not the 2WD. This seems random and could hold up or prevent some clunker deals.
is a great little car. In my family alone we have 5 of them of all different years/models. All have been great cars. Civic, you will pay thousands more for up front and get less for your $$.
The Ford Focus has better emissions scores than the Civic. That should have been part of the program if they were concerned about being green. The Civic is quite a bit dirtier than the Focus.
I didn't say anything about this being related to the "greenie program". But, it does have to do with putting cleaner (less pollution, less Co2 emmisions equals less greenhouse gases) autos on the road. So, spin it however you want.
Per the official CARS website:
The CAR Allowance Rebate System (CARS) is a $1 billion government program that helps consumers buy or lease a more environmentally-friendly vehicle from a participating dealer when they trade in a less fuel-efficient car or truck. The program is designed to energize the economy; boost auto sales and put safer, cleaner and more fuel-efficient vehicles on the nation's roadways
Comments
Fine with me but selling and shipping these items probably won't be worth the effort.
Oh, and he made sure there was so little gas in it that it ran out as I was parking it.
Absolutely right! My wife and I are two such people..
Yeah, I think you did OK with the Focus. Nothing exciting. Keeping it down there it'll probably rust out before anything else :P
2) Not a bad idea but would have had to offer this program in January/February to make sure the manufacturers are producing sufficient cars. One problem that some manufacturers are having is this is the end of their model year and they have stopped production. The good thing is people are choosing more efficient cars. The numbers released this weekend show the cars consumers have chosen average 25.4 mpg, which is 7.4 mpg higher than the upper gas mileage limit of the program. So in essence this program is doing what you are proposing.
3) who chooses which engines gets destroyed and which don't? Who gets the money from the saved engines? I agree that many of the cars do have useful life but you are opening up a Pandora's box by choosing arbitrarily.
I'm not completely happy with this program either but it's the one stimulus program that gives the average American a break while helping local businesses. Car dealerships effect so much in the communities beyond the employees they hire. Plus Ford seems like the big winner as they are expected to announce an increase in sales for July.
Some of these are sweet running, well maintained engines that have many years of life left.
Don't forget the environment. It was also meant to get those gas guzzling/polluting/ozone destroying/green house gas emitting and global warming producing jalopies off the road. :sick:
Some of these are sweet running, well maintained engines that have many years of life left.
I'd like to see what the average typical C4C vehicle looks like. Probably not on it's last legs as many would like to believe. My MIL traded in a very nice running 1998 Plymouth Voyager in very good condition. I think it is such a waste to destroy vehicles like this. Let the dealership put a value on any vehicle worth more than say $1,500. Let them donate the car to charity and use the donation as a tax write off.
1.- he told me that if for some reason the dealership didn't get reimbursed the $4500 for my vehicle, that I am obligated to pay it & that they "might" give me something for my trade-in.
2. - I brought up the point about how the dealer is supposed to disclose an estimate scrap value of my trade-in because that sum is supposed to be deducted from the purchase price of the new car.
He stated that they really don't know that much about that part of the program and also how they have to pay to have the trade in's hauled off so it's really kind of a wash. He said that I was the first customer that pushed the issue.
Pleading "dumb" in my book is not going to get you very far.
I told him that I wasn't "pushing" any issue and reminded him that it is clearly part of the program that the dealers are supposed to be following & that it was hard for me to believe that the dealership didn't review the program with their sales staff.
I pointed out to him that they shouldn't be passing the removal of the vehicle on to the buyer.
It is interesting that they were trying to make me feel like I should pay to have my trade-in removed, when the dealerships are in fact making money here.
After all, they are not having to pay for our trade-in's, but are actually getting paid for them by the government.
One the one hand, we would eventually replace the car so the program only served to "pull in" the date of the next car purchase. On the other hand, in order to justify the sale to ourselves, we needed to see additional savings in addition to the $4500 credit, so we focused only on high MPG hybrids which we figure will save us between $1k and $2k per year, depending on the price of gas. Additionally, the repair costs over the next few years for the clunker would not be insubstantial, so we figure we are trading an up front payment for a couple of thousand a year in repair bills, and hopefully getting dependable transportation in the process.
If there was no C4C program, we probably would have gone for another 3-4 years and then looked around at what interesting vehicles there were. I'm not sure we are going to see much fundamental change in the type of car out there for at least the next few years - maybe 4-5 years from now there will be something compelling, but I don't see something more compelling then what is on the market today arriving in the next couple of years. The possible exception are some PHEV but it sounds like it will take a few years on the market for them to mature enough for us to consider investing in them.
Don't worry about it. Anyone that makes an average wage pays plenty in the way of taxes. You'd be a fool not to take your fare share of a giveaway program. If I were in the market with a clunker, I'd be all over that program.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What is the typical turn around time?
Thanks!
What is the typical turn around time?
Thanks!
Darn...too late for me; I'll be in Myrtle next week. If I knew you a few weeks back, before I made my arrangements, I'd have asked you to leave the keys under the mat.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
First of all, a tax credit would not have immediately reduced the net price of the car like the government voucher did. You would have to wait until this year's taxes are done and refunds issued. Second, if you have a tax credit you get that money whether you have income or not. All you have to do is file a tax return with all zeros for income, but list the tax credit. A tax deduction on the other hand means that you would not pay taxes on either $3,500 or $4,500. As an example, if you are in the 20% tax bracket it would save you only $700 or $900 respectively. It appears that the government plan was a far better deal for the consumers than what you have proposed.
Several dealers are playing dumb about the net salvage value. That means on average an extra $250 in their pocket. That's what most salvagers are paying for the cars. The dealers are suppose to keep $50, but they are trying to keep all $250. I purchased a Rav4 through the program. The dealer told me on the 24th that they had not determined the salvage value as the program had just started two hours earlier, but that it would be sent to me later. I went along with that, but sent him an email a few days later to remind him of the arrangement. He wrote back that they were finalizing the removal of their clunkers and that he would get back with me. I kept a copy of the email should I need it in the future.
The whole thing about car dealers is how much of your money they get to keep. Nothing is wrong with that as long as they stay within the rules, not guidelines, of the program. If I get my net salvage value in a few days after they settle up with the salvage yard, I'll be OK with that. On the other hand, if they try to shaft me then I'll turn them in on the fraud hotline for the program. All I'm asking for is that they follow the program just like I had to. Nothing more, nothing less.
i had an 08 as a loaner with 15k on it for a few days.
power seemed fine and the computer read 33mpg.
i had an '04 and the newer ones don't have the same steering feel.
a couple of other things. assuming the car is an automatic, it is going to take a while for the drivetrain to break in. up to 10k.
also, if you think the handling is sloppy, add some air to the tires.
it may perk things up a bit.
Gotta love it when someone tries to correct someone else and doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Is that you, Secretary Geithner?
But now that u have it,,enjoy the Focus~~ :shades:
How did he leave the tires on??
It's quite simple to calculate: 11 deals per dealership on average per $1B.
So, $3B can support about 33 deals per dealership. Your Toyota dealer had done 65 deals already.
Nope. One C4C transaction is your limit.
to me not nearly as good as 12K for a civic LX-S or corolla S
Also, the Focus is not my everyday driver, so why not help out America?
The best compromise that I've seen so far - you do all of the paperwork at the dealer - sign everything etc. etc. The dealer holds both your new car and your old car until the gov't approves the deal. If the deal is approved by the gov't, you drive away in the new car, if not, you drive away in the old car and tear up all of the paperwork. Some dealers are even giving a loaner car while your clunker is sitting on their lot waiting for the paperwork to go through. This seems like a reasonable way to protect both the dealer and the consumer. This is possible now because the dealer doesn't have to disable to clunker engine until they receive official notification from the gov't, so they can simply hold both cars until everything is approved.
That Focus is a fine choice for what you want out of it.
Meanwhile, ignore those that think you don't belong in the program. You fit within the rules and the timing was right for you. I'd have done the same thing.
Heck, if they set it up so you could junk a clunker that got good mileage for a new car that got great mileage i might have been in myself. I don't have any cars that qualify.
civic LX-S costs whatever a dealer will sell it to you for, which in most parts of the country is significantly less than 17.5.
sounds like something a salesman would say
i like the focus, but for my money personally i'd rather have better driveability resale and crash test results than leather and a sunroof.
Heck, he's in Jersey and is going to put minuscule miles on it. Let me know when you're selling!
Sorry this simply is incorrect. It has little or nothing to do with any greenie program except tangentially. The reason the gas guzzlin clunker engines must be destroyed is because the national security interests want them destroyed so that they'll never burn fuel again.
In the future we will burn less fuel, each of us, as we drive our vehicles. It is the unspoken official policy of the Federal Govt. National security supercedes our individual preferences.
In addition, they list the 1995 4WD Suburban but not the 2WD. This seems random and could hold up or prevent some clunker deals.
I didn't say anything about this being related to the "greenie program". But, it does have to do with putting cleaner (less pollution, less Co2 emmisions equals less greenhouse gases) autos on the road. So, spin it however you want.
Per the official CARS website:
The CAR Allowance Rebate System (CARS) is a $1 billion government program that helps consumers buy or lease a more environmentally-friendly vehicle from a participating dealer when they trade in a less fuel-efficient car or truck. The program is designed to energize the economy; boost auto sales and put safer, cleaner and more fuel-efficient vehicles on the nation's roadways