Toyota Celica (Hatchbacks / All Years)

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  • tgeentgeen Member Posts: 20
    toyocelicadude, I have a 2000 GTS, but I'm pretty sure the GT motor is going to feel similar below 6000 rpms. Both engines are 1.8 liters, so there's not a lot of torque to work with, therefore shifting at 2500 will not feel very rewarding. They can easily handle shifts at 3500-4500, without a big hit on fuel economy. Try winding it out a little more, it's not going to break anything.

    As for grinding gears, try a full synthetic gear oil in the transaxle. That made a big difference for me. This is something you can easily do yourself for about $25, check the owner forums on other websites for how-to instructions. Having said that, I'm not totally sold on the Toyota manuals for robustness, but I have over 180,000 miles on my 2000 GTS and only occasional problems with the synchros. The 6 speed seems to dislike fast shifts at high rpms, but for 99% of normal driving, it's been fine. Good luck.
  • jlozierjlozier Member Posts: 1
    I'm a driver highly interested in the celica. What are some pros and cons that you see in the car?
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Tgeen,

    The answer to your question is practice, practice, practice. What you will do is develop a feel for the car under different driving conditions. You will become the expert how you will drive the car.

    Some examples to get you going:

    1) Stopped at a traffic light, going down hill.
    -You can start in 2nd gear, accelerating lightly. You can quickly move to fourth or fifth gear, depending on how steep the hill is.

    2) Starting the car going up a hill.
    - You will keep the car in first gear longer than usual to get the car going, and not skip any gears like you can do going down a hill.

    3) Racing on flat ground
    -You will let the clutch out faster than usual, and give it more gas than usual.

    The things to practice with everything you do - letting the clutch out at different rates, and giving it different amounts of gas.

    I drove home in my new 1993 Integra on the freeway after only having driven a stick around a parking lot. You are in the same boat. Spend time practicing driving. Turn down the radio. Turn off all distractions. Listen to the engine, listen to the tires, smell for a burning clutch, get a feel for driving comfortably with no jerking, and for driving aggressively when all you want is to push the car to its limits. It will take a long time, but be well worth the effort. And obviously, you are interested in becoming a good stick driver.
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    I had access of a 911 Turbo for a week. The car was sold new in 2007 at $130K. It now has 3000 miles in the odometer. I did a lot of errands around town and a few long trips with it. Followings are my observations:

    1. The Porsche has a turbo-charged 3.6L flat 6, with 5-speed automatic transmission. RPM goes up to 6700 max. When you drive past 3000 RPM, the turbo charger kicks in and you can feel being pushed back against the seat. At 3000 RPM on 5th gear, the car cruises at about 80 MPH.

    2. The car has much more HP than the Celica GTS. The engine revs up quickly when you step on the accelerator. You can accelerate even in 5th gear. The rear engine is very noisy, but not anywhere as noisy as the Lamborghini Gallardo or Murcielago. The best fun in this car is being able to very quickly zip away from the rest of the traffic at stop signs.

    3. The leather seats are a lot stiffer than all other brands. The stitching on the leather steering wheel cover is so coarse, it hurts my grips in long trips. The paddle shift switches are in front of the steering wheel, the top is up shift, the bottom, down shift. When you steer the column upside down the up/down shift positions are reversed. It's the same in MBZ. Ony Toyota/Lexus has down shift in front and up shift in the back of the steering wheel, regardless where you steer.

    4. The tachometer is central in the instrument cluster. The speedometer is smaller, in the left corner and goes up to 225 MPH. The speeds are marked in small white, closely-spaced numbers. 75 to 100 MPH is represented by a 2/3 inch gap. It's difficult to differentiate if you are cruising at 80 or 90 or 95 MPH to avoid speeding tickets. It does have a digital speed indicator at the bottom of the tachometer. The 5-gear indicators are small , closely-spaced numbers with small red LED, very difficult to see and get used to.

    5. This car is fun zipping around town at low speed, but at high speed, the ride is punishingly harsh, even on the best stretches of freeways. It bounces around a lot even over rminor road bumps. The front end was bopping around so much over bumps that I did not feel I had good control of the car too many times.

    6. The control forces for steering, gas and brake are medium, much softer compared to MBZ sports cars. The car is probably much heavier than the Celica GTS. You can zip around and change lanes quickly but the chassis does not respond as quickly and stably in quick and tight turns like the GTS. The chassis sometimes bops around unpredictably in tight turns or quick lane changes. I did not have much feel for the road even with its very taut suspension. That feel may have to be developed with the car over time.

    7. Tire noise and road noise are high, especially driving over lane divider bumps. Engine noise is high too. This car is fun for short drive, zipping around town, but there would be no fun, almost a punishment, driving anywhere over half hour with it.

    8. In comparison, the Celica GTS is quicker, livelier, smoother, more controllable, quieter and a lot more fun in short and long trips, over most road conditions.
  • traderyintraderyin Member Posts: 2
    " 8. In comparison, the Celica GTS is quicker, livelier, smoother, more controllable, quieter and a lot more fun in short and long trips, over most road conditions. "

    Thanks for the Apple-to-Apple comparison. I was cross shopping b/w a Porsche 911 Turbo and a used Celica GTS and wonder which one is better for me. ;)
  • conlouconlou Member Posts: 1
    Thinking of buying a 94 Celica Hatchback in absolutely BEAUTIFUL condition for a new driver in the family...(I've had a Previa since '93 with no problems). Power everything in working condition, wheel & sound upgrades, recent service completed and verified at 215,000 K. (including time belt/water pump/ seals/tuneup). In absolute beautiful condition in and out, but all sources I check show the price way too high. Just wondering if $3500 is way out of line considering this high mileage with times like now when good gas mileage cars are going QUICKLY for big bucks! Just how good and dependable IS this vehicle?
  • lekikalekika Member Posts: 1
    Basically, our Celica has been sitting in the front drive since who knows when. I really would like to restore it. However, I am in no means capable of doing it myself and need to find someone who specializes in this sort of area. I know it would need tons of work, new clutch, tires, new front headlight (which just probably scrapes the top of what actually needs to be done).

    Who and how do I go about finding someone who would be able to come out and look at my car to give a quote to do the work? Is there a directory of people who do older car restorations? I live in New Jersey, on the shore.

    Thanks so much.

    -Jessica
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Some cars are coveted, and when the car is aged, dependability is no longer on the map as a practical matter. Something major can die at any time - a broken suspension part, auto tranny, etc. They can probably sell the car for that amount, so who wants it the most, you or someone else?

    I have a friend selling a '92 Legend for about that same amount. Any time anything went wrong, he fixed it. From a distance it looks pristine, and has zero mechanical problems because he always fixed things. However, something little always needs attention. Rust is attacking many areas of the car from the inside out. Tires need checking because the wheels are old, beat up, and leak. Yep, that engine and tranny may run forever. But think about other potential problems.

    These types of cars are perfect for a first time driver. As soon as you buy it, anything can break, you have to accept that.

    Compare this car to other cars selling for a similar price. Sounds like there is some emotional attachment to this car. If you cannot find something else that has a much better reason to buy it, go for the Celica.

    --guitarzan
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    :cry: What could be causing my car not to start? Currently my starter,battery, alternator, ignition connections grounds are good so what could be the problem could it be a certain relay fuse or car computer brain ? Which one? They have been checked and also my timing belt was checked but it has been difficult trying to determine what is the problem. It seems electrical but I am so confused and I do not want to loose my celica they I have been keeping up with the maintenance promptly. Could someone possibly give me advise on how to go about resolving my celicas starting problem or maybe a part or what can fix my starting problem?
    Thank you, :confuse:
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    Could the distributor cause my celica to not to start?
    What could be causing my car not to start? Currently my starter,battery, alternator, ignition connections grounds are good so what could be the problem could it be a certain relay fuse or which one? They have been checked and also my timing belt was checked but it has been difficult trying to determine what is the problem. It seems electrical but I am so confused and I do not want to loose my celica they I have been keeping up with the maintenance promptly. Could someone possibly give me advise on how to go about resolving my celicas starting problem or maybe a part or what can fix my starting problem?
    Thank you,
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Since I don't know how competent the person is who checked out the areas you mentioned, I don't know whether their conclusions can be trusted. Time and time again, someone has brought a car into my shop and told me that a certain part has been tested and was good; only for me to later find out that the part was faulty. So I've learned to not trust second hand information.

    The most effective way to sort out a problem of this type is to simplify it by narrowing down the probabilities into the smallest possible number of areas. The first thing to do is to find out what the symptoms are: Does the engine crank at a normal speed when you turn the key to the start position. You probably remember what it used to sound like when you started it, when it previously ran normally. Does the starter still sound like it usually did; or does the motor now turn over very slowly or barely at all, or does the starter not make any sound when you turn the key, except for a click or a series of clicks?

    If it turns over at a normal speed, then you can assume the battery and the starter are OK. But if the starter does not sound like it used to, or does not make any sound at all, then you need to first thoroughly test the battery. The battery can only be properly checked with a load tester, which draws a similar amount of power as the starter does. Just using a voltmeter or a hydrometer will, in some cases, give misleading results. Some auto parts stores will test batteries for free. Another way to test the battery is to turn on the headlights, and have someone watch them while you try to start the engine. If the headlights get substantially dimmer when you crank the engine, then the battery is weak. If the lights stay bright, but the starter does not make any sound when you try to start the motor, then I would suspect a defective starter.

    If the starter works normally, then the next thing to do is to determine whether you have a spark or a fuel supply problem. This is done by lifting one of the spark plug wires off of its spark plug, and connecting it to a clean spark plug that is not in the engine. Place the threaded part of that plug so that it presses against the metal of the engine, and watch it carefully while someone cranks the starter. If you need to hold the plug in place; use a wooden stick, or a plastic rod. WHILE YOU CRANK THE STARTER, DO NOT TOUCH THE SPARK PLUG OR PLUG WIRE WITH YOUR BODY OR WITH ANYTHING MADE OF METAL. You could get a very painful shock from the electricity. If the ignition system and distributor is working properly, there should be a series of blue sparks which jump between the spark plug electrodes while the engine is being cranked. If there is only a very weak spark, or no spark at the plug, then this is usually caused by a problem in the distributor cap, the rotor, the coil, the igniter, or the ignition pick up unit. In rare cases, the problem might be in the wiring harness, or in the computer. These items should be tested and confirmed by someone who knows how to test these parts.

    If there is a strong spark at the plug, then the problem is most likely coming from the engine not getting any (or enough) fuel. This can be confirmed by disconnecting the air intake hose from the throttle body, and spraying some starting fluid into the throttle body while the accelerator is held down. It is valuable insurance to keep a fire extinguisher nearby, while you use starting fluid. The engine could backfire. After spraying the starting fluid, try to start the engine. If it fires at all, or now tries to start, that means it wasn't starting because you have a fuel supply problem. That could be caused by a clogged fuel filter, or a fuel pump which has stopped working.

    These tests should give you enough information to get a clearer sense of where, and possibly what, the problem is. Feel free to write again, if you need further guidance. Good luck to you. Celicas are great cars!

    Joel
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    :cry: :sick: I don't know whether their conclusions can be trusted because they did not figure out the problem but kept on assuming that it may be the celicas computer, distributor. His judgement I can not trust. But after your intellectual experienced response I trust your judgement. With my 1994 Celica going dead I have been having restless nights with nightmares.Not withstanding its age( and miles 145,540). And I have always taken care of preventive care of my Celica. It is very heartwrenching . I have not wasted anytime and I spoke to a 23 yr Toyota experience Master Tech Mechanic and he told me about the headlight test to do. I made sure the connections to the battery and the engine grounds are good. I made sure the battery is fully charged. I turned the headlights on and try to start the car. The lights stayed brite except when I attempted to start the car the lights dimmed way down. That mechanic told me about the contacts in the starter are known to go bad. Also my Toyota advisor told me about the need for a new starter(mind you my current starter is over 8 years old) So I have to think positive about it. Well today Wed. 10:00am A toytota recommeded tow truck company will be taking the celica to the toyota dealer for repair. I will keep you informed of my situation. I am hoping that it may be a faulty starter.
    I greatly appreciate your helpful inforrmation which helped me sleep well last night.
    Thank you,
    D.A.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    It certainly could be a faulty starter; but since the lights dimmed way down, the type of starter problem that would cause that is not bad contacts; instead, it would be a short in the starter motor armature. But the remedy is the same in either case; to replace the starter. However, there is another thing that would make the lights dim way down, and that is if the battery has aged to the point that it no longer has sufficient energy capacity to drive the starter motor. If this is the problem, and they replace your starter without first testing the battery with a load tester; the new starter will not fix the problem, and they will have wasted your money. Any shop qualified to do electrical diagnosis would load test the battery BEFORE replacing the starter.
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    zaken I just recieved a call from my Toyota advisor and he informed me about the cause of my celica not turning on what because of my distributor melted. I guess because of the age my celica has 14 years he stated. And he even guaranteed that then my celica would turn on. I did ask him about my starter,alternator and those were good except after they tested my battery it needed to be replaced also? I need to call my toyota advisor back to order the parts. :confuse: Zaken should I go ahead and parts ordered for my repair? I am just worried/stressed out which is not healthy for my MS.

    I would like to thank you in advance for your cooperation.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Have them ONLY replace the battery, then go over there, be sure there is a NEW battery in it, and try to start the car. If it now starts, get out of there and don't give them any more business. I've never heard of a distributor melting. That sounds like nonsense to me. The distributor is made of metal and plastic. The metal won't melt, unless there has been a fire in your engine compartment. The only real possibility is that one or more plastic parts in the distributor have melted. If that has happened, those parts can be replaced individually; without having to replace the entire distributor.

    Joel
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    Thanks for the information on how to go about getting a new battery. I will keep what you let me know in mind. And if the plastic parts have melted and keep not allowing my celica to start I will get another mechanic to replace the plastic parts individually.
    Joel I would like to thank you in advance for your prompt and accurate information.
    Have a good Day,
    Deborah
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    Instead or replacing the battery, try jump starting with the battery from another car.

    If the symtoms remain the same then the battery is OK. Dont have to replace it.

    If the engine cranks but will not start, then the distributor may be broken or wet, or the cap may be worn out or broken. Just open up the cap can clean all contacts. If there are any cracks on the cap, the engine will not start.
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    :sick: My distributor inside plastic is melted/cracked not withstanding its age( 1994 with milage:145,540) so of course will not start :cry: . I might is well replace the distributor so my celica will start. Once I get the new distributor hopefully my celica 1994. I will keep you informed.
    Thanks,
    Deborah
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    One more potential ignition killer: the switch at the automatic transmission lever. This switch lets the starter crank and engage only when the lever is set at P or N. If this switch is misadjusted or dead, the starter will not crank.

    Leave the stick in P or N and try to wiggle it around while starting, sometimes it will move the switch enough to start the starter.

    The same problem happened with a BMW 740 which left the owner desparate and destittute, replacing just about all modules in the ignition circuit without fixing the problem. He adjusted the transmission switch and all is fine.

    There are lots of horror stories involving BMW's electrical systems. Toyota has much better electrical systems designs, mateirials and workmanship.
  • dalicea97dalicea97 Member Posts: 15
    :confuse: Well as for my celica which the master tech ran it today after the new distributor was installed he parked it and when he tried to start again the car it would not turn back on....AH!! The advisor told me that the master tech has to check other electrical wiring? Now I wonder what it is, another electrical part? I am hoping it made be fixed. I will just sit here and wait I only wonder if it would start. Thanks for listening. Have a Wonderful Weekend & Take Care:)
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Updates on service: I got a Toyota TrueStart battery a year ago and it is dead. They replaced it at no charge. Also, the serpentine belt is about two years old and started to show signs of cracking. I had it replaced at a cost of $180.

    I asked about the belt life and the service advisor asked about the car's mileage. I moved a few years ago, and now I am putting very little mileage on the car. Apparently the belt is not getting exercised enough. I also think it is possible that the battery is not getting charged during the short trips and this contributed to an early death.

    I think after six months I should remember to charge the battery fully, and perhaps that will help extend its life. I do not have much time for other things, and do not think I will have time for freeway trips just for the sake of exercising the car...

    Nowadays I spend very little on gasoline but am making up for the cost with other repairs.
  • okcyclesoonerokcyclesooner Member Posts: 1
    Just purchased an 01 Celica for my daughter. The car's headlights, on low beam, are very weak, partially because they are not aimed very well. How do you aim the lamps, and is there a way to brighten the light coming out on low beam? On high beams the road is well lit.
  • pachuco310pachuco310 Member Posts: 1
    i was wondering how much is it worth? how much would it be worth in the future?
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    Wear down after about 20K miles.

    When tires were new, the ride was fairly quiet, cornering was quick.

    After 10K miles, the tires are very noisy and harsh.

    The new BF Goodrich Super G Force tires are softer but much quieter, probably will last longer too.
  • celicagt1celicagt1 Member Posts: 2
    i think the celica would be a lot better with the acura trans witch is actually possible makes me wonder is honda and toyota the same manufacturer? everything bolts on any body want to prove me wrong any who if you spend over 2 grand for suspension upgrades out does the celica than consider 2 grand in the motor on the celica would blast any honda bottom line celica has its own driving school how bout that honda
  • celicagt1celicagt1 Member Posts: 2
    I was comparing acura rsx and civics to celica 00 my buddy from cali has civic and ihave an 01 celica out of dallas tx and i beat him on stock every thing rsx gets
  • jkonjkon Member Posts: 3
    I am looking for a service manual for a 2003 Celica GTS. Can anyone help please?

    Thanks.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    You can buy one from alldata, at the following web address.

    http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~C8000~R0~OD~N/0/89012112/92870401
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    I bought a CD ROM in eBay for $5. It had troubleshooting procedures for the entire electronic system and all mechanical drawings.

    Sorry file too large to email.

    Also check www.ALLNEWCELICA.ORG
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    The Celica GTS is a more serious driver car than the RSX type S, even though the RSX has a bigger, more powerful engine etc...

    The GTS engine, transmission, steering, braking, suspension and overall system dynamics are just pure high-performance. The RSX has no electronic auto trans, so you have to push the stick to shift. Kind of lame.

    At least to me, the Celica's ergonomics is superior than the RSX. The Celica seats fit drivers better and are far more comfortable.
  • gjenngjenn Member Posts: 1
    edited April 2010
    do you really have to use high octane fuel or will regular work? what are the consequences?
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    Toyota spec says must use 91 Octane fuel. The engine is a higher compression engine. Lower octane fuel would ignite early, causing knocking and reduce power.

    Unclean burn also leaves residues in exhaust sensors, lighting up sensors' warnings. Typically the Catalytic converter sensor would warn of low cleaning efficiency.

    High-octane fuel would cost may be 10% more, but you should get at least 10% higher mileage out of it. Also, Toyota engineers know what the car must run on. If it could run on cheaper fuel, they would already specify it in.

    Every time I deviated from MFR recommendations, I got unknown problems later on.
  • redneck_racerredneck_racer Member Posts: 4
    You sound like you know a fair bit about these years of celicas. I own an 86' GT hatchback with the 2S-ELC engine, what can you tell me about this model. When I got the car last spring from a good friend($1000) he had just put in a crate engine(now has 5xxxkm), rebuilt tranny and he did a whole bunch of other stuff. It seems as if theres a draw on my battery even when the car is parked and not running. There are no lights staying on and no shorts that I can find, any ideas? its been a great car... reasonably quick and the 4-way independant suspension is great on curvy mountain roads. I love the car and would hate to sell it because I cant fix a simple problem. Any idea what these are worth in pretty good shape and less that 1/4 mill..km? I NEVER see them around. I know they are rare because the GT, ST161(chasis), 2S-ELC was only made in 1986 but just how rare are they?
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    You can narrow down the area of the drain by connecting an ammeter in series with one of the battery cables, and removing fuses one by one, until the drain stops. Since the problem exists when the key is off; most circuits will not be energized under that condition; so there are only a small number of circuits that might cause the problem. Once you find the circuit; it will be necessary to isolate, inspect and separately test all the components that are protected by that fuse.

    When doing current draw tests; it is important to bear in mind that the vehicle's computer is designed to draw a constant small current (less than 60 milliamps) at all times; to preserve the computer's volatile memory data. So you're always going to see at least that much of a draw. This computer draw will run the battery down in about 6 weeks to 3 months of storage; on a vehicle with no electrical problems. So it is just not like the good old days; when batteries held a charge much longer..

    The brake lights, cigarette lighter, possibly the radio, the security system, the 4 way flashers, interior lights (including the glove box light) and the headlights are the most likely suspects. Also, any add on electrical accessories might be connected to be live when the key is off.

    Another very common source of such drains is a shorted diode in the alternator. You can test for this while the ammeter is connected by disconnecting the heavy power cable to the alternator (being very careful to not let the metal teminal on the cable touch any metallic objects), and seeing whether that stops the drain. If it does; the alternator must be replaced. There is an epedemic of badly remanufactured alternators and starters on the market. I have become so fed up with having to remove and return newly purchased defective rebuilt alternators that I now only buy alternators and starters from NAPA parts stores. And I have none of those problems anymore.
  • redneck_racerredneck_racer Member Posts: 4
    I did not know that the comp. has a constant draw, is it possible that it could drain eough in less than 6 months? Ive heard that the connections in the starter are commonly burnt and dont make good connections, I took it appart and sure enough, burnt connectinons. Could the combination of the constant draw from the comp. and a poor connection in the starter be preventing the car from turning over. The car has aftermarket gages and it seems to need around 12.5V for it to turn over. My battery is new in sept. last year and is an energizer max with high cold crank amps. I will test my alternator, when I have the car running, it does provide a charge to my battery. Im quite sure that its not my accessories. Thanks for your help.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    The draw from the computer is guaranteed to run the battery flat in 6 months. In fact; it will probably do it in 4 or 5 months.

    Turn on the headlights; if the lights are dim or do not work; you'll need to have the battery charged. If the lights come on; try to start the car and see whether the lights dim or go out. If the lights dim or go out when trying the starter; the battery needs to be charged, or the battery cable clamps need to be removed and thoroughly cleaned. A tapered reamer type cable service tool is the best tool for this. And some almost invisible corrosion on battery cable clamps and posts will totally prevent the starter from running.

    If the lights stay bright at a time when the starter does not work; there is a relay called a starter relay, which is usually the problem. Despits what you have heard from the rumor mill; Toyota starters are some of the most long lasting and reliable starters in the industry. Burn marks notwithstanding.
  • redneck_racerredneck_racer Member Posts: 4
    I already have done the headlight test... I learnt the trick a long time ago. The lights did dim, therefore, when I was trying to start it, it was drawing electricity into the starter relay(solenoid), its often mounted directly on the starter but ford has a fire wall mounted design with a movable pole shoe starting motor and some imports have permanent magnet starters... diesels have gear reduction starters to provide more torque. My car has the solenoid on starter design(commonly seen in chevy's). I took my starter appart and the solenoid works fine but the secondary system which provides power to the starting motor had burnt connections and the starting motor wouldn't work. I cleaned the secondary connections and bench tested the starter, it worked like new. Is there anything I can do to keep those connections from getting burnt? some kind of highly conductive flux or something? I wont replace the starter because of this, it will have the same problem either way and its like $40 for me to completely rebuild my starter myself. Why would they get burnt to start with? too much current?
  • redneck_racerredneck_racer Member Posts: 4
    How rare are the 1986 Toyota Celica GT Hatchbacks w/ the 2S-ELC, SOHC, 2.0L and the 4-speed overdrive automatic tranny?
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    The 2000 Celica has about 88,000 miles, and I am doing probably four thousand miles a year nowadays. The brakes (the first replacement set) were toast, and all were replaced including calipers. The water pump and serpentine went bad for the second time. Seems this pump needs replacing every forty-thousand miles. I would think they would put a beefier one in for this high compression engine. Perhaps they saved weight by skimping on the water pump also. I finally got tired of getting hit on the noggin so I had the hatchback shocks replaced. The driver's electronic door latch was starting to fail in cold weather and was replaced. This list cost $1520 from my new best-friend mechanic. (Dealer wanted $2700 after 10 % discount!)

    Years ago the moonroof was completely scratched up, and was completely fogged over by the free gas station car wash years ago. I did not know the effects of that big nylon bristle brush until 1 minute too late. I thought the moonroof would have to be replaced at a high cost, so I let it go. Since everything seemed to get fixed lately, I decided to investigate this. I bought the 3M Headlight Restoration kit. I started sanding the moonroof with the 300 grit, and had an "oh crap" moment. I did not really know if the severe sanding I had just done could be rubbed out. So I went through the next 4 steps on the area I had touched, and it ended up looking pretty good. I then applied only the last two steps (a gray buff pad and rubbing compound) to the rest of the moonroof. The result? a couple stains are left, and there are minor swirl marks throughout. But the entire piece is see-through again, and has something like 80% clarity. I could have sanded out the remnants of stains from bird droppings, and worked more on the swirl marks. However, I only have a 550 RPM drill. I think some of the swirls are left because of this - the slow drill grabbed the surface a little too much. So the result is a moonroof that looks decent and the small flaws resemble the rest of the ten year old car and would not stick out to anyone else.

    I would recommend the 3M kit to anyone for this purpose. I was terrified of sanding something on the car, but the kit works for the late-model plastic moonroof, and worked fine for a newbie with a slower drill, but lots of time and patience.

    The headlight lenses are a little fogged up, and since I had the kit out I applied the last stage of rubbing compound to the lens that was in the worse condition. After 1 minute, it looked better than the other lens. I repeated on the good lens. I am sure if I took the time to use all of the stages that the headlamps would look like brand new.

    A remaining "problem" - The fiberglass parts are de-laminating. My opinion is that Toyota used a clearcoat on the plastic, and the clearcoat expands at a different rate than the plastic part and the paint. This would explain bubbling on the side-mirrors, and near total de-lamination of the top of the spoiler. The bumpers have some spider cracks in them at this point. If you are not in a snowy climate you might never see something like this. If the heat alone in your area has the same bad effect, I would be curious to know about it.

    I could buy a new wing, front and rear bumpers, and perhaps paint them black. Most of the cost is labor of installation, so I it would probably be the right thing to do to buy new materials rather than re-use the old ones. In terms of color I think a match to the original red is futile and I think the car would look out of place if new paint on the plastics was too different a red tone from the rest of the metal paint. I do not have a good reason to address this today, so this repair will just be hanging out in the back of my mind.

    The car has new Bridgestone Blizzak's as of last winter, and new Bridgestone Potenza RE760's, the only 16" Summer Tire that Tirerack had.

    I can't complain - the car sounds and drives like brand new. Perhaps I will get a set of red customized mats from floor mat express sometime. I'm sick of paying $90 or so for factory mats that just shred like a chew toy with normal use.

    End Car Rant
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    The water pump life you described does not sound normal. This motor does not have significantly higher compression than many other motors that are out there. I assume your 2000 Celica has the 6th generation 5S-FE (also designated as ST-204) motor. This motor has a 9.5-1 compression ratio; which is very much middle of the road as compression ratios go. By comparison; many BMW's have 11-1 compression ratios (and the 1998 only Celica 3S-GE (ST-202) motor had an 11-1 compression ratio; along with 200 HP and a 7,000RPM power peak. By comparison; your motor has been detuned to meet emission standards; and produces about 135 HP and has a 5,400 RPM power peak. So if you inferred that the compression ratio on your motor produces a quicker than normal throttle response, which is stressing the water pump; this simply is not true.

    However; if the belt tension is adjusted too tight; that will significantly shorten the life of the water pump bearings. So will using low quality coolant, or using coolant mixed with tap water (rather than the distilled water recommended by Toyota), or using coolant mixed in less than 40% proportion. Some coolant available today comes pre-mixed with 50% water. If you bought that type of coolant; and then mixed it with equal amounts of water; it would shorten the life of the water pump.

    Some aftermarket water pump brands do not meet Toyota's quality standards. These pumps will not last as long as the original part.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    edited June 2011
    The motor for my 2000 GTS is the 2ZZ-GE = 11.5:1 compression. (The GT engine is 1ZZ-FE which I think is 10:1???)

    I thought the heat the engine produces may be greater as a result of the compression, and strain the pump more, but I was just guessing. More along the lines of your suggestion of a fast throttle response, the response of this motor is huge, and I think the peak power is at 8400 RPM. So is the problem as straightforward as the pressure on the pump's parts during fast acceleration through the high RPM range?

    2ZZ-GE Power Graph

    Neither the dealer nor my new mechanic were surprised at 40,000 mile replacements for the water pump. Apparently I was the only one saying, "What the heck people????*@($))!#^! This is one cool car, and spectacular engine, but a handful of things have been somewhat quirky!

    I originally suspected belt tensioner problems for this model, but I was probably unduly scared by a TSB that exists for it. The mechanics, both Toyota and independent had no concerns about particular problems with the tensioner.

    The first pump replacement was OEM and done by Toyota. With its short life, and the cost of repairs at Toyota getting out of hand for a 10-year old car, I went with another mechanic. I do not know if he used an OEM part or not, but for the low cost I am fine with either and would consider an aftermarket pump to be a neat experiment at this point.

    Up until now I always had flushes done at the dealer, which I trusted for various reasons, so I think they would follow the recommendations for coolant and water. At what point in history did the car companies figure out that minerals in water caused problems in the engine, and start recommending distilled water?
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Thank you for the updated information. It was not previously clear to me that you had a GTS. You might be interested in the following article; which explains the TSB Toyota issued in late 2002 for defective "lift bolts" on the 2ZZ-GE motor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_ZZ_engine#2ZZ-GE This is a relatively straighforward fix; which could produce a big performance boost if your bolts are bad.

    The article also goes into detail on the many different rev limits which were used on different model applications for this motor. The article states that your particular motor is rev limited at between 7,900 and 8,200; depending on model year. You may notice that the dyno graph you posted shows the stock 2ZZ-GE motor having a power peak of 162 Hp@7500 RPM.

    In general; motors which are tuned to run at high RPM generate LESS cooling system heat than similar motors tuned for lower speeds. But heat would not be an issue in a water pump failure, anyway. Now that I realize this motor was designed by Yamaha; I am not surprised at the pump failures (nor the lift bolt failures). Yamaha has always been known for focussing their efforts on power; and compromising on quality control and long term reliability. Considering the number of oil pump failures in this motor when running at very high RPMs; I would say that the low RPM limit on your motor is a blessing in disguise.
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    Actually Toyota manufactures this 2ZZ engine. They ship the engine to Yamaha to assemble the high-speed cam shaft and valve assembly on. The head had the name Yamaha embossed on it.

    To make possible the high-rev and quick response, this head was designed with a hollow cam shaft with 2 sets of lobes. It also has many linear moving parts, like valve stems, made with Titanium instead of steel to reduce moving mass.

    The engine in Lexus LF-A also has a Yamaha head with similar concepts.
  • tgeentgeen Member Posts: 20
    edited June 2011
    I've had a 2000 GTS for eleven years now, and 210,000 miles. The 2zz engine and 6MT gearbox have never given me any trouble. The original clutch went out at 205,000 miles. Otherwise it has been a reliable drivetrain for everyday commuting, with normal upkeep like fluid changes. But I've never raced it or abused it.

    It's no longer my primary car, but I still use it regularly for commuting and trips to the dog park. So, I rarely take the fancy valvetrain into high lift territory anymore, which I'm sure would be speeding up the wear and tear on everything.

    I'm not a huge fan of these variable lift valve systems like Honda's VTEC (and this one) because they tend to look better on paper than they drive on the street. They make for an exciting test drive. But after the honeymoon is over you still have to get to work at normal speeds, get groceries, and all that other mundane stuff. It's like choosing someone to marry--the hot first dates are not always the ones you want to be stuck living with in five years. Many times I have wished for an extra 10 lb-ft of torque at the low end, rather than that extra 40hp on the top end, which I can almost never use. But, at least it seems durable enough in normal use.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Driving home today in 90° weather I was reminded of the drop in power at high temperatures. Ugh. Feel a little dead to you people under the same conditions? The drop is most noticeable from a start, reminding me, like tgreen implied, that a little more torque would be nice.

    I also felt the 6-speed was a good short-term girlfriend, and that a 5-speed would be more appropriate for this car's power curve. But after ten years I still look at this car as very unique, especially compared to the variety of cars that are out there today.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    One more 2000 GTS owner here. I am a bit over 100,000, with less than 3k added each year. Overall, the car has served me well, though I'm looking to sell mine and get something new in 2012, given life style changes over recent years (translation: baby).

    I definitely agree with your statement about the VVT. I very rarely go over 6k RPM nowadays. Frankly, I should go over more often, just to allow the engine to "stretch its legs."

    I tend to get a fairly lousy 20 mpg, though my driving is entirely stop and go, including through parking garages with stop signs every 10 feet. My other big complaint is that serpentine belt / tensioner / whatever is causing that annoying whinnying noise. I've had the TSB performed several years ago, but the noise seems to come back and require re-servicing / replacement about annually.
  • tgeentgeen Member Posts: 20
    20 mpg seems very low for this car, in my experience. With the 6MT in routine city commuting (20 mile stop-n-go freeway/surface each way) I have been getting 27-29 mpg per tank, for years. The only time I've seen the low 20s was when I lived in a cold climate and the engine was cold all the time. Do you have a CEL on?

    I would not want to try messing around with baby seats in the rear of a Celica. Get something with four doors. When the baby turns 18, you are entitled to your midlife crisis car and you can get whatever you want then. Hopefully someone will still be making a car with a manual transmission in 2029.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    I just replaced the air filter with an STP from Autozone. I did not see a directional flow arrow, nor notice a difference in the appearance of each side of the filter. Can anyone confirm that the modern STP filter can be installed in any orientation, up/down and left/right?

    My experience with MPG is the same as Gambit. From day one I have gotten about 27-29 MPG. I have been using the AC constantly this summer and I think the number is closer to 25 MPG as a result.
  • peterpan99peterpan99 Member Posts: 65
    Bought 6 from Amazon for $1.50 each. Brand Hella model H3, part number 8GH 002 090-131, made in Germany, rated 12V 50W.

    You can replace the lamp fairly easily. Not sure how much the dealers charge, probably $200 for 2 hours labor plus $25 for the lamp. You can thus save money with this 20-minute procedure:

    1. Drive the car's front wheels up a ramp, could be 3 2x4" studs nailed together for about 5 more inches of clearance.

    2. Undo the plastic bottom cover near the fog lamp, 2 bolts and a few plastic snap ons.

    3. While pulling the cover down, insert your hand behind the fog lamp module, twist CCW a round cap which is concentric and behind the fog lamp lens.

    4. Reach inside the lamp module, undo a wire spring latch and remove the lamp.

    5. Pull the lamp's terminal from its socket.

    6. Install the new lamp in reverse order, take care not to touch the halogen bulb as finger grease will crack the lamp early. Rotate the lamp base until it seats properly in the cavity and secure the spring latch. Also good but optional to add a little contact grease to the lamp terminal before inserting it in socket.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    I should probably re-check this. I'm looking at a pic of the filter online and it seems to have a thick rim only on the top, allowing only a one-way install. I did the install and it was probably correct. I think I was a little out of it as I nearly sweat to death on that day, from the heat outside topped with the heat under the hood.
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