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Audi A6 Wagons
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Comments
Hope you're enjoying your (or your wife's) new Saab. I thought that the third row seat was going to be a critical factor in my decision making process, but it turns out that other features were more important. The Saab was certainly up at the top of my list despite its lack of AWD, but I agree with your assesment that the A6 avant (and the Passat V6) are "less sporty" than the Saab's.
A curious observation: the Passat's Cargo space is listed as 39 cu.ft. while the A6 Avant is listed around 36. Yet the A6 has the option of a third row seat -- go figure. However, I don't think the third row seat is a major selling point of the A6 over other competitors. But, if Audi/VW did make such an option available in the Passat, that may have siphoned some of the sales away from the Avant.
George
check out this ESP product video from Continental-Teves, one of the manufacturers of the MB/BMW/Audi ESP stability control system. It features some really awesome test footage (most of BMW 3-series cars) and also shows what the system is composed of and what understeer and oversteer is.
Conti-Teves ESP Video
Comments anyone?
Drew
The esp video is quite impressive, thanks for linking it. does tha awd of the audi do this or is it (esp) a separate system that works with awd?
thanks
Drew
That sort of line is enough to make me not consider an Audi...maybe people aren't keeping the cars or trading for another one is because they become too expensive to hold on to??
So, have any of you out there held on to your Audi A4, A6 past the warranty, and has it been worth it? I was considering a used one. I welcome your feedback.
Thanks,
still spinning
If you haven't already done so, you may also check out Audiworld and VWVortex-- the forums are fairly active. However, you may get a skewed view of the reliability since most of the active participants seem to be true Audi enthusiast.
George
As for the 3rd row seats, Saab has had a variety of answers in the past. The one that sticks in my head (it was given by the head designer of the 9-5 wagon) is, "We don't believe in putting people in the crumple zone". Of course, nearly every single luxury mid-size wagon offers this option, so clearly Saab is missing out on this (and AWD). Too bad, because the 9-5 is really a good vehicle.
I like the A6 Avant, but I wish that Audi would either offer it with the 2.7L Biturbo V6 (like in the Allroad Quattro), or with the 4.2L V8.
Drew
However, I still believe that in order to be a true mini-van and SUV alternative (which is where the bigger wagons and awd wagons are headed), it needs to offer the third seat. In my case, with three kids, only wagons with the third seat qualified even though it is only used occasionally. It sure made the decision easier, but left out a number of good cars which we could have seriously considered.
Steve
Steve
Volvo has run similar rear impact tests on the V70 and report good results (No pictures like MB though). I posted the response I got from VONA in one of the other posts. I'll try and dig up the letter when I get back to work in the AM.
I think the reason that agencies such as NHTSA and IIHS don't conduct rear impact crash test is due to the relative infrequency (~10%) overall, and the limited number of vehicles that it would apply to. Thus the time, $$, and effort to design a reliable test is probably not cost-efficient for these non-profit groups.
George
as George said, other manufacturers do in fact do these crash tests, but they don't publicise the results. I'd imagine that safety conscious companies like Audi/Saab/MB/BMW/Volvo would definitely perform their own battery of crash tests on all of their vehicles.
You're right though, MB does tout this test. The picture that I posted was from their E-class brochure. In fact, all of their brochures show plenty of colourful fairly large print crash test footage. Notice that the dummies in the MB picture were supposed to "simulate" children, since the seat is primarily used by kids.
I see from your profile that you're shopping for a replacement for your '97 Voyager. Have you bought an A6 Avant yet? Or are you still shopping around.
George:
I just priced a VW Passat 4-motion GLX wagon at the VW site and found that those babies are pretty pricey! - CDN$43K+ fully loaded. I didn't realise that they were this expensive. But they're great vehicles though. As you said, if you want the best, you've to pay for it.
Drew
3 memory settings for the driver seat
Rain sensing variable wipers
EDL/ASR
Auto Climate Control
The missing luxury items:
the name - VW in the states still conjures up images of the New Beetle
Side Air Curtain (found on the Audi siblings)
Xenon lights
navigation system
For me, the Extra $4000 it would take to get those things in a Loaded A4 Avant are not worth it.
George
Drew, the answer to your question is Yes and No. Yes the Voyager has been replaced. No it has not been replaced with a A6. We went with a 99 V70 GLT. We got this one for just over $40k (cdn, incl taxes)with, what I thought, was a very fair trade in for our van, considering the tax benefits and the private selling hassle. I looked at the A6 but couldn't get past the sticker shock. The one I was looking at optioned out was close to $60k (cdn). For this difference in price I could have kept the van. Of course I didn't but I think I will use the difference to finish the restoration of my e-type. We are very happy with the Volvo so far.
Since we felt we needed the 3rd seat, choices were limited to Taurus, Volvo, Audi A6 and MB. The Volvo came out almost by process of elimination. It may not ahve been so easy if the Saab had a third seat.
George, I didn't realize that Volvo had done these tests and I would be interested in more info. I am surprised that the Volvo dealer didn't bring this up as they knew we had three kids, were replacing a van and wanted the third seat. When I last shopped for vans, the dealers were all too eager to explain how theirs was safer than the other guys. Anyway, maybe I should have asked!!
Despite the fact that I now own a Volvo, I am still interested in all manufacturers who have the foresight to produce this type of car. These types of cars must be a relatively small market compared to vans and SUVs. You never know when you will be in the market for a new one.
Steve
$40K is indeed a good price for a GLT. Did you buy one with the AWD, or just the FWD with traction control? I'd imagine that AWD would come in useful in Calgary.
BTW, you may want to take a couple of minutes to update your profile.
Drew
The AWD would probably be useful here but we did not feel it was worth the extra money for our needs. The car is mostly driven by my wife and if the weather is not nice, she doesn't usually go out anyway (mostly because of others on the road). I have no such hesitation provided I have the clearance above the snow, but I only drive it on the weekends. We do not really get that much snow in the city and it usually does not last very long when we do.
I'll update my profile - sorry, after I bought the V70 I didn't realize I would be that interested in posting.
Steve
I remember which topic it was; try the Volvo XC topics. I believe that you (or someone else) said that they couldn't send the crash test results, but read it over the phone instead.
Steve,
wouldn't you rather take the E-type out on the weekends vs. the Volvo? ;-) Not in the current weather conditions, of course.
Steve
I hear it will be here this fall. No price yet, but my dealer says they hear the price will stay competitive. I predict this car SLAYS the competition! But can you wait until this fall??http://www.audiworld.com/news/00/allroad/index.html
These cars are all actually wagons, jacked up to look like frame-on SUVs. This is not a bad thing, space frames are more efficient, cheaper and lighter.
Leave the frame-on construction to the real offroaders, not those of us who only use our AWD on the streets.
I think the Allroad will be good competition for the X5 and ML430, it outclasses the rest.
I feel that in several ways, it will be a better car than the X5 (which is excellent), most notably the ride height adjustment. On the roads (where these cars will spend all their time), it will lower at speed (or at any speed by switch) to provide better handling. FANTASTIC!
Too bad it is ugly. The interior is almost straight A6, but with ugly sliver rimmed gauges which are totally out of place.
I still expect the X5 to outsell it 5 to 1 at least. Probably 10 to 1. It's just the whole BMW name thing.
I didn't mention the Grand Cherokee since I was skeptical. Perhaps I wasn't skeptical enough.
Enjoy,Audi Wakeboard
BORA 4Motion Downhill Run
BORA 4Motion Uphill Run
George
Also, the 4Motion system in the Jetta/Bora is the automatically engaging part-time system like the TT and A3, not the full-time system of the Passat, A4, A6, and A8. Not that it matters much. They both work well.
I have decided to get the A6, but will wait until next year when it comes with a 2.7T and/or a manual transmission.
I have seen all of the press on the SUV (essentially what I am waiting for) but havent heard if Audi will come out with A6 Avant with the 2.7T, but without the SUV gizmo (which I'm not sure I'm willing to pay for if it is a big jump). So does anyone know:
1) When the 2001 Avants come out?
2) When could I order one and hope to get one by?
3) Will the A6 Avant be released with the 2.7T engine.
4) Any ideas on what the new models will cost?
5) Who can I contact to find any/all of this out - my local dealer swears he hasn't been told yet.
Thanks again,
Jordan
For me, the big problem with the Allroad is it is ugly and also slower due to weight. I actually like the suspension on the Allroad, but that's about it.
Anyway, to make a long story short. No dealer can order for you one yet, since they have not been sent an order sheet which lets them order an A6 2.7T Avant. Those dealers in the know aren't holding their breath.
I hope everything turns out for you, even though I fear it won't.
I'm always amazed by the variety of engine options available to the Europeans. Take for instance the A6 Avant...in great Britain you can chose from one of 8 different engines ranging from a 1.8T, a 1.9 TDI, all the way to the S6. Maybe some day we'll get a little more variety here !!
George
Since you order the car, they can offer wider choice. In the US, where cars are typically bought off the lot, if they create 30 different versions of the A6, dealers won't stock them due to fear of having unpopular models litter the lot.
As far as I can tell, about 1 in 20 A6's in the US is an Avant, and less than 1 in 5 is a 2.7T. so, should Audi ship a car that roughly 1 in 100 A6 buyers will buy? Audi only sells 36,000 A6's in the US per year. So should they create a 2.7T Avant just to ship 360 of them? That's about 3 per dealer per year.
It's too bad. I definitely would have bought one.
I know the V70 is being redeigned for 2001 model. I'm trying to learn if Audi or Saab have any significant changes planned.
I've never owned any of these makes. Honda Accord and Passat GLX have both been reliable and great. I have got a lot of research to do. I'm psyched to find this message board. It will be most helpful.
-Amanda
The Audi interior and driving feel sold me. The Volvo was Spartan by comparison. The Volvo is quicker, so if that's important, the high pressure turbo Volvo's are your choice. The Audi is better in snow and rain due to Quattro. Even an AWD Volvo doesn't match up with Quattro due to Audi's superior system.
For more Audi material, see AudiWorld at <A HREF="http://www.audiworld.com">www.audiworld.com
But having driven HPT Volvos and talking with friends who own LPT and HPT Volvos, I think the LPT (GLT) is the better idea for most people.
On the HPT (T-5/2.3), it has some flatness in the low to middle due to turbo lag and the fact that the engine is actually smaller than the LPT (GLT/2.4).
British car magazine CAR actually rates the LPT higher than the HPT. Consumer Reports says the same thing. Both complain about poor responsiveness in sedate driving on the HPT.
My friend who has had one for a year says it is too slow normally, and comes on too strong when you punch it. He doesn't like the overall response, but says it is great on freeway onramps.
I would recommend you stick with the LPT unless you really plan to use the HPT performance liberally. I really think you'd be happier for it.
Note that the S80 T-6 has twin turbos and seems to act more like the LPTs than the HPT.
Currently, I think the 2001 V70 is only offered as T5 (HPT) but they will be bringing out other models as the year goes on.
Steve
years. It's been a great car, but recently I've had some expereinces in the rain that were disturbing. Somehow, I feel that the car doesn't hold the road as well, fishtailing slightly on curves in the rain and just last week on felt thatthe car was hydroplaning in a bad rainstorm.
Thsi was spooky and frightening as I literally for a second felt that the car was off the ground.
Any similar incidents or comments about this? I feel like my confidence in the A6 is shaken. I'm not a speedster at all.
Tire,tire,tire, tire... what kind of tires are you running on, how many miles on them, how much tread do you have left on them, what are they inflated to ???
While the Quattro is a great system, its only as good as the treads the car runs on.
George
Audi warns of hydroplaning in the A6 manual. They say most drivers have learned to recognize the "disconnected" feel that signals a FWD car is hydroplaning. They mention that in an AWD car, this effect is small or nonexistent, and you need to be more careful.
George
Steve
WoodyWW
We are buying a wagon by the end of Sept. I am looking at Audi, Saab, Volvo and will consider anything else. I know nothing about cars! I have a 6 cyl '92 Toyota Camry, which I will keep and will be saying good-bye to my '91 Honda Civic. As you can see, we keep our cars and intend to do the same with this next one. My only requirements are a power driver seat and enough engine power to deal with Atlanta traffic with some grace. Any suggestions, comments or must-haves are greatfully appreciated. Don't get too technical on me! or if I MUST know something about the engine, please spell it carefully so I won't sound like a nut at the dealership!!! THANKS
Hope this helped
I'll second Adam's (what5) comments. Based on you're choices, AWD does not seem to be a major factor. All of your choices (I believe) will meet the two requirements that you specified above. However, the A6 Avant (because of the AWD aka Quattro) is heavier and thus seems sluggish compared to the Volvo and Saab. If you were to go with a Passat, you would get the same engine as in the A4 and A6 Avants, but since you can get it in FWD with traction control, the few hundred pounds you save makes for improved acceleration.(BTW a Passat GLX also gets you 3 memory setting for the driver seat and setting linked to the key fob remote).
As for your other choices you really can't go wrong with any of them. The V70 has apparently had its share of problems, so much that Consumer reports took it off its "recommended" list. The redesigned V70 has certainly gotten great reviews, but because of the former problems, you may want to wait a little on this one.
If you're willing to spend more $$, then also look at the BMW 528 Touring -- it has the smallest cargo space of the group, but is undeniably the best handling of the pack and remains a "driver's car". Personally, I think the Audi is the most luxurious of the bunch, but need a little more Oomph for my tastes. The Saab, Passat and Volvo have the largest cargo space. The luxury brands have all available options typically associated with luxo cars -- multiple airbags gallor, nav system, etc. If you can do without those things, then consider the Passat and save yourself at least $5K over the others.
George