Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

aajoslin

I've had no problem... but I've only hauled one at a time (no stacker) I just strapped it down on hull up. It is a 8 foot whitewater kayak. The rear hatch hits the stern when you open it, but you could fix that by hauling it hull-down, or buy putting it on a stacker. I've been on 3 hour 75 mph trips without issues. But I would recommend a bow line when hauling a kayak with ANY racks... They make excellent torpedos. Better safe then sorry.

bluesubie

Keep in mind that it's not only what the roof racks can handle, but the roof itself. You can buy racks that can hold 200lbs, but couldn't use them on the OBS.

I use a Kanga Pouch on my 97 OBS when I drive from NJ to SC. Two adults and two kids worth of luggage for a week has never been a problem. Even at NC interstate speeds. :-)

-Dennis

mysubie1

We just had our first snow since buying my 2002 OBS. I was surprised that when I rounded corners that the tailend started sliding out. Mind you I live in a fairly snowy area, so I knew how to handle driving in the snow. I was just surprised that my new AWD would slide out so easily. Has anyone else noticed this?

bkaiser1

I, too, was very surprised how tail-happy these cars are. Having owned mostly FWD cars that just plow straight ahead in slick conditions, I didn't expect my AWD Outback to be so "RWD-feeling." It's fun and easily controlable, but a bit unexpected. It seems like the 50/50 split on the manual transmission models may make this more pronounced than the 90/10 split on the auto trans models, but I haven't driven the auto version enough to confirm that.
Brian

paisan

with AWD cars you need to GAS-IT in order to not skid. Whereas on most other cars you need to brake, by applying power to an AWD car you pull yourself out of a skid. Best bet is to go to an empty lot with your newly aquired car and toss it around a bit in the snow, there is a learning curve. AWD isn't going to help you if you are going to fast it's not a mysterious system that saves you in all situations.

-mike

lark6

mysubie1 and Brian: Mike has a valid point. FWD cars are heavily biased toward understeer - that condition of "plowing" through a curve. FWD cars have become so predominant in the market that understeer may feel like the normal attitude of a car. Brian hits on the fact that most AT Subarus are much more front-wheel biased than MT Subarus (the WRX and Outback VDC being exceptions) and as such may give you more of the feel you are expecting. Do know that even the typical AT Subaru will shift that split as conditions warrant.

Mike's advice is good: find an empty parking lot and practice putting the car through various maneuvers. Do it on a clear day as well as in the rain or snow if you can. Knowing the characteristics of your car, including its limitations, helps make you a better driver in that car.

Have fun.

Ed

bkaiser1

Well, I'll buy it that more gas on DRY roads may aid stability (within the laws of physics), but I'll say with 100% certainty that flooring the gas on a slick, snow covered road will cause the rear to come around. It is absolutely not a good idea to floor the gas if the tail is already coming around in a turn unless you're ready for a full spin. In playing...err, I mean scientifically testing my car in a snowy lot, lifting off the gas immediately stopped the fishtail, whereas MORE has produced some exciting spins. More fun than an Accord, here, that's for sure. But even in traffic, I've had the rear step out when turning on slick roads and going less than 10mph...I can see how this would alarm someone used to FWD cars.

paisan

My experience is 100% opposite that. If the rear is coming around and I gas it, it shifts power to the front and it pulls me out of the spin. This is the case with both my XT6 and my Trooper, both AWD.

-mike

bluesubie

I totally agree with Mike.

In my experience, getting on the gas (just a little) brings a sliding AWD car under control.

This is regardless if it's in my MT OBS or my wife's 4EAT OB. It even worked for my wife when she was coming down a snowy, curvy hill in NW NJ last winter.

-Dennis

paisan

Like Dennis said, lightly gassing it will straighten out the vehicle, not a Mash the Gas to the floor type reaction though. The system will transfer power to a different axle quicker when there is torque being applied to the AWD system. If you are off the gas almost no torque is being sent to the system so it doesn't have anything to transfer to the front axle to pull you out of the spin.

-mike

mysubie1

Thanks for all the advice about the tail sliding. I'm glad to see it's not unique to my car. The "gassing it" argument sounds a little strange, but I can see the concept of adding torque to the wheels that are gripping to pull me through. Sounds like the AWD adds. It just surprised that it would slide so easily around corners, especially from a stop. It felt like a RWD.

I guess I need to find an empty parking lot and experiment before I take to the curvey mountain roads.

celeste2

When I had my manual 2000 OBS, I saw a nice 90 degree curve in a neighborhood, the curve was wet due to sprinklers going and there were no curbs in this particular neighborhood. I took the curve without braking much and after making it around the bend the back end started fishtailing a little. I gave it a little gas and voila! A nice little manuver. And a very happy 15 year old next to me whooping it up and saying, "Man, that was bad, mom!"

ironannie

Thanks for all of the advice. Thought it wiuld be a shame to waste a seemingly fine rack. How Dennis can keep luggage for four (esp. 2 kids) under the weight limit, though, is a puzzle to me. My day pack for work & school comes close to that.

bluesubie

I actually take the scales out when I pack the roof pack. :-) Ok, I might go a little over the 100 lb. limit.
I guess that's one of the pluses of a soft roof pack, I save weight over a hard case.

I'll soon be in the market for a new case though since the new Impreza's don't have strips on the roof.

-Dennis

celeste2

Brekke from our group here was visiting Florida and came to see me yesterday. How nice to see an Edmunds friend in person after chatting online. How strange it was to for us two ladies to spend the whole day talking about cars, especially ours! Now I'm waiting for a visit from Ramon... Ramon are you still out there?

st2288

I am in a process of buying a 2001 Impreza Outback sport from a private party. The dash has mark around the passenger airbag. How can I tell if the airbags are still there? The car dashboard also squeak a lot.. Is it easy to fix without going back to the dealer?
thanks..

celeste2

I'm speaking only for myself here, but I would take it to a qualified mechanic to have it inspected to see if it was OK. Maybe has been involved in an accident, would be nice to have the frame inspected, too, to be sure it's not bent... just a few thoughts.

lisabuff

I agree..have it looked at. In my younger days I bought a nissan sentra that I didnt know had been in an accident.. until the day I had a minor fender bender and the repair shop pointed out all the old damage. I think the only thing that saved me from having really big problems with it was it only had like 90hp and didnt go over 50mph! The subaru is a bit speedier than that and you want to make sure it stays in one piece when your trying out the snowy parking lot suggestions listed above.. hum.. I wonder if its going to snow tonight?....

rbleland

This is my first post to this topic and this "Station Wagon" board, but I have posted under "Hatchbacks" previously. I am a 57 yr. old male living in south, central B.C. I am looking to downsize from a 2000 Toyota 4Runner which I don't fully utilize and am tired of paying for. I need space for large dog back of rear seats (in up position) together with quality, decent power, fun-to-drive, reliability and reasonable resale. This vehicle is a second car for us as my wife has '99 Toyota Solara SLE V6. In addition to the Protoge5, I am seriously considering the Impreza 2.5 TS sport wagon. My question is: in Canada, is the Outback Sport worth the extra $4400 Cdn MSRP over the TS? The OBS adds: 16"alloy wheels w larger tires, fog lamps, cruise, roof rails, o/s temp. guage, heated seats, cargo 12V outlet and cargo cover. The OBS is only 7 # heavier. The problem with the alloy wheels is that you would have to buy 4 winter wheels/tires; whereas the TS has 15" steel wheels and you could just change to snows. Is there enough difference in looks, handling and convenience to justify the extra cost?? I realize that this is a subjective call; but would appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

ateixeira

Celeste: glad to hear you met another regular. I always have a good time putting a face to a name. :-)

If you feel the rear end coming around, the key is not to let off the gas. Drop throttle oversteer will start you into a nice spin because all the weight shifts forward.

In snowy parking lots, I found that adding gas *does* pull you out of the slide, that's on my Forester L 5 speed (viscous coupling AWD). But definitely try it. Even something as simple as tires makes a difference.

$4400 candian? That's about US$2800, right? The heated seats would be awful nice in a cold climate, and it does look really cool. If you don't want the alloys, you could always get seat heaters installed on a TS for about US$400.

-juice

st2288

I checked out the car with a good friend of mine. The car has not been in an accident as far as we could tell. Everything was great except a few mark around the air bag. I am just wondering if they can remove the air bag with the car still on it? The car has 20,000.00 mile and still under warranty. I guess I can get the dealer to check..

derekgdw

st2288 - I'd run a VIN report on the car too just to be sure. If it's been in any major accident there would be a police report showing. (Provided it was serious enough for them to call the police out to do a report)

If I'm thinking correctly you could do it through carfax. We've actually had it done through our insurance company for free before purchasing a used car.

We bought a Mazda 929 without doing this and after noticing vibrations, the dash board not fitting quite right, and finally finding small blood stains under the floor mats while cleaning months later we had the insurance company run a report and sure enough it was in an accident 6 months before we bought it.

As far as the airbag goes, I do believe they can remove it from the dash at any point if they wanted to.

ateixeira

Try Carfax, or at least call 800-SUBARU3 and ask them if they have a history on the vehicle.

-juice

celeste2

I like the difference in ride of the 16" wheels. I had a 2000 OBS which had the 15" wheels and these larger ones give a smoother ride on the highway. I believe you would really make use of those huge fogs in winter and inclement weather. Heck, I use mine all the time just because they light up the road so much better.

I would miss having cruise control on the TS, I love the bright map lights in the front, and if I were you I'd want the heated seats. If you tried to add these things to the TS the cost would go over the actual difference in the two cars, I believe. Now if I were getting the car purely for utility or were on a very strict budget I might get the TS.

st2288

Thanks guys.. I used consumerguide instead of carfax. Carfax wont let me sign up when i subscribed it less than a year again.. beware. The car came back clean.. I have to bring back to the dealer when I get the car this weekend. The whole dash rattle quite a bit. Getting excited..

rbleland

Appreciate your comments and those points are pretty much what I was thinking. Certainly the cruise, fogs and 16" wheels would be nice. It's just a lot of money difference and I am trying to downsize. On the other hand, I have had experience in the past with going for the "cheaper" solution, only to be dis-satisfied later. The raised suspension does not impact handling in an adverse manner, I take it. Anyway, I am giving it serious thought and thanks again.

bill_1

I am not sure that you can compare the 15" wheels on the 2000 with the 16" wheels on the 2002s. The only way to really compare them would be to compare the rides on two cars with the same model year. Usually, a car with larger wheels will have lower profile tires and therefore should have a slightly harsher ride than the same car with 15" wheels. Of course the lower profile tires should also improve handling.

Regarding the raised suspension of the OBS; I think it is only slightly raised with respect to the other imprezas; heck it is really just a marketing tool anyway because while none of the Imprezas are low to the ground, none of them are built for serious off roading.

paisan

Neither are 90% of the SUVs being sold in the US. I can count "real" offroad vehicles on 2 hands that are sold in the US, maybe a dozen if you push it.

-mike

bluesubie

Here's a pic of me off-roading in my marketing tool:
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-02/pics/pages/DSCN1219.htm
No, it's not rock climbing. But it's more off-roading than 90% of SUV's will see. :-)

-Dennis

99gs

Thanks for posting the pics. Did you make it across? How about a picture of your sube without the water around it?

paisan

http://isuzu-suvs.com/events

http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-02

There are tons of pics of subies in the Pine Barrens. Even an RS with RE92 tires on it

-mike

99gs

mysubie1

I just got an 02 OBS a couple of weeks ago and hadn't needed to wash my rear window until this week. All the rear sprayer did was make a noise when I tried it. So, I went to check if the rear sprayer reservoir had fluid, but could not find it. It doesn't show in the manual either. Can someone tell me where it is? Does it use the same reservoir as the windshield? If so, I've got a problem, 'cause the windshield sprayer works fine.

paisan

The rear sprayer feeds from the same container, except that it has a higher hose height. I think that it basically will stop washing the rear when you have about 1/2 to 1/4 fluid left in the resivoir. The idea is that you will notice that the rear isn't spraying and re-fill it before you absolutely need it, which the front is absolutely needed. Hope this helps.

-mike

ateixeira

Yep, they feed from the same reservoir. Fill 'er up.

-juice

bluesubie

Yep, made it across with no problem (even though I was paranoid). mike took a picture right after I went through with the steam coming out.

My favorite pic on that page is the old GL with the roof lights making a big splash.
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-02/pics/pages/DSCN1203.htm

-Dennis

mysubie1

Thanks. I'll take a look. I wish the manual was a little more clear.

99gs

I'd frame that one!

bluesubie

rbleland

OK, no more decisions and hand wringing!! Today I got rid of the 4Runner (see post #1568) AND I got the Impreza 2.5 TS sport wagon. I decided to stay with the TS and not jump to the OBS because the $ jump (in Canada) was just too great and I can (probably will tomorrow) go into my local tire dealer "good guys" and swap the Potenza RE92s for 4 good snow tires to put on the steel rims. Then I can purchase 4 16" alloys (on sale this coming week) and add 4 better summer/driving tires in P205/55 R16 size. That gets me closer to the OBS but at only about $1200 Cdn or so. I can live w/out the cruise, fogs (can add if I decide later) and few other things. The Mazda P5 kind of got lost in all this and while its a great car for the dollars, I just felt that more power/torque, AWD, better ABS brakes and higher safety level were more imortant - thus the Subie wins over the P5. One great thing about picking up the TS today was it had to be picked up about 200 km's (124 miles) from my home so I got to drive back those first miles on a lightly travelled, paved, twisty mountain road - cool!! If I could have that much fun in the TS (still trying to watch the revs and vary my speeds, etc for new engine); think what a blast the WRX must be!! Anyway, I am very, very pleased so far with my choice. Oh, the color is black - ya, I know it's a pain to keep clean, but what the hey, it's soooo nice when it is clean. One question - do most folks with this 2.5 engine run the 87 octane regular, or do you step up to 89 or even 91 octane. Manual says "87 or higher" but what makes the car work best?? (I know it's a hoary old query). Any ideas for decent summer tires; but not at the top of the performance heap as I am not about to go rallying or autoxing in it. Appreciate your help so far; and will post here as we go along. There seems to be some really great folks posting on this baord (as opposed to some others where the average age seems to be very juvenile). Bottom line - I'm pretty pleased with my TS choice.

armac13

Congratulations on making a good choice. I think you will really enjoy the TS. If I were buying today, I think I would probably have gone with the OBS or possibly the TS rather than the Forester, but in 2000 I wasn't very impressed with the Impreza. Still, I do love my Forester. I've done quite a bit of driving in the Interiour, especially around the Kamloops area. I have only used 87 octane in my travels and have had no reason to try higher. I'll leave the other issues to the experts. And yes, there are some great people on these Subie boards. Enjoy.

Ross

rbleland

Ross - I remember from a previous post that you are in Vancouver. I am in Kelowna; and the mountain road I was on yesterday was #33 up from Rock Creek to Kelowna. Clear and dry but some stones to watch out for in terms of w/shield/front end. I am going to try both 87 and 89 octane to see if there is a difference. I agree, the new 2002 Impreza is a far better car than the 2000's. If the Subie was the only car in our family, I would have got the OBS. We have the Solara SLE V6 for long road trips also. Thanks for your help. Rick

celeste2

Bill 1: OK, I must be wrong. My husband too, as we both think the current model rides smoother. So it's not the tires--must be that raised suspension!

Bluesubie and Paisan: Those pictures really are exciting and prove these tough little cars do pack a punch!

rbleland: Congratulations. I have black and yes it does get dirty but so what? I still love it even when it is dirty. I've only run low octane, never tried more expensive as I didn't see the point. The way I drive, I don't exactly conserve fuel so it's hard for me to part with the extra money for the high octane. Don't believe I've heard anyone brag the high octane did anything spectacular.

rbleland

for the comments. I am going to run the TS on 87 octane for a while and see how it feels. Agreed no sense paying the extra $ if no difference. I decided to keep the Potenza RE92's for summer only, and have 4 Yokohoma good snows coming in next Tuesday (forget the name of the Yokos but is one of their better snows). I think I'll hold off on the aftermarket alloys as my tire guys say that Subies are pretty sensative to sizes, offsets, etc. (in fact could impair the warranty). It's snowing here again today in Central B.C. so may get some snow miles in yet!!

armac13

Lucky you! We got about 1 cm. in Vancouver, didn't last past 9 a.m.
:-(

Ross

celeste2

As far as wheels for the OBS you just need to get the right offset. Those guys were referring to the fact that not a whole lot of wheels are made in sizes to fit our cars but if you know the offset and stick to that, you'll be OK. The offset size that will work is anything from 48 to 52. But if you're concerned, just get a set of Subaru wheels. The Outback Sport wheels look very nice and many with the WRX like them better than the WRX wheels!

I had a 2000 OBS and bought aftermarket wheels, taking the advice of the tire shop that they would fit (figuring, after all, they knew what they were doing, right--wrong!) and they sat too far out from the hub and caused rubbing. But that was a case of my not knowing the offset and checking it myself. The danger of having the wrong offset is the wheel is not seated over the bearing properly and is bad for the bearing as well as having the tires rub either the outside or inside wheel wells.

Knowledge is power. Just know the offset size and you'll be OK.

barresa62

I took some pics of the snowfall we got in Seattle on March 7th and 8th. Check out the pics over in the Picture Gallery under my March Madness album.

Stephen

armac13

I'm jealous.

Ross

brekke

Congrats on your new car. I always use 87 octane in my OBS and it runs fine. I tried 93 once and there was either no difference or it felt a little worse.

bkaiser1

Check out Ebay for some WRX wheels! I could not believe the low bids on some of those WRX wheels -- some even with new RE92's on. A set went last week for under $400 for the wheel/tire combo. Not bad at all...guaranteed fit, too!