Oh yeah, that one. Sounded like the driver there was on a toll road for some 60 miles or something? Maybe fewer trucks and easier traffic to deal with.
It's really too bad that the 911 dispatcher didn't know someone at the Lexus dealer to call about a kill switch.
I haven't seen anyone yet post that they haven't been able to shift from drive to neutral in any vehicle. I might drive a 30 different cars in a month and haven't ever had a problem shifting into neutral from drive.
That is kind of a stupid place to put the hook. My Intrepid has hooks to hold the flormats in place, but they're mounted way back towards the edge of the mat. They're actually underneat the seat, unless you put it all the way back like I do.
Also dude, don't take this the wrong way, but that's a wussy looking gas pedal! :P I kinda miss those big, bulky, MAN sized things they used to put on cars, although to be fair, even on my '79 Chryslers, the pedal size got cut down noticeably.
For some odd reason, a Toyota slogan from the summer of '83 or '84 is sticking in my mind. A jingle that went "Would you believe it's Christmas iiiiinnnnn Juuu-LYYYY!". They had another one around the same time set to the tune of "What will you do with all the mooooo-ney you saaaaave!"
My Mopar club used to have a blast with that slogan from the 90's, the "Everyday People" campaign. Some of them started putting "The last thing I want is a car for "everyday people" in their sig line. And I remember another one saying "I'd rather have a real 'ota then one of them toy ones!"
But then, I knew a guy who once had nothing but Mopar, used to rag on people who bought anything else, especially if it was foreign. He sort of thumbed his nose at me when he found out I bought a '67 Catalina! But then, a few years later, I saw him get out of a '69 or '70 Impala wagon. And a few years ago, I ran across him, and he said he got tired of those old cars always breaking down on him, so his family drives nothing but Toyotas now. What goes around comes around, I guess. :P
A jingle that went "Would you believe it's Christmas iiiiinnnnn Juuu-LYYYY!". They had another one around the same time set to the tune of "What will you do with all the mooooo-ney you saaaaave!"
I recall the first one from we lived in the DC area, but I thought it was from the Rosenthal chain of stealerships. Both of them sound like dealer ads.
NHTSA has not found this to be a problem after all their testing
The lawyers are chasing after the cruise control messing with the shift by wire. I am interested to see if they (or the Europeans) can dig anything up.
I thought you wanted a simple car. Forget CD and NAV, then -- use a paper map and sing out loud!
That is exactly what we did on our 5700 mile vacation last month. I would not trust that NAV again after the horror of a trip to Phoenix expecting the NAV to get us where we wanted to be. We got maps of every state we went through from AAA before leaving. Out in the wide open spaces we were forced to talk to each other as finding a classical radio station was scarce. Minnesota had the best radio stations of the whole trip. I miss the XM we had in the 2005 GMC PU truck. The Bose is superior to the Toyota Denso (JBL) crap.
ust watched the local news and they had a follow up segment to a Toyota that ran over a cliff yesterday. Fortunately no one was seriously injured. They mentioned a recall of this Camry because of floor mats that can cause the throttle to stick. They showed the driver’s side floor had a piece of heavy carpeting on top of the factory mat. If that wasn’t bad enough, you could see at least a handful of women’s paraphernalia on the floor, candy bars/wrappers and I couldn’t even determine what the rest of the stuff on that floor was but I could see a sneaker that was partially under the brake pedal.
>The lawyers are chasing after the cruise control messing with the shift by wire.
Do you know where you found that? I'd like to read more. I've seen posts by a few people suggesting it felt like the cruise taking over rather than a carpet mat swedging the pedal all at once.
The pedal in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham is a big long chromed piece hinged at the bottom. Shoot, the brake pedals in those old cars were almost as big as a computer keyboard and proudly proclaimed POWER BRAKE.
Lemko, I think your gas pedal is the same one that my '67 Catalina and '76 LeMans use...although the LeMans's pedal is suspended, rather than hinged at the base. Or if not the same piece, definitely similar. I know it's kind of a dumb thing to fixate on, and maybe even sounds a bit Freudian, but I like big pedals on a car!
There are a lot of complaints on the NHTSA site about Camry Cruise Control. What I noticed about the cruise control on my 2007 Sequoia is having to step fairly hard on the brake to de-activate. Or just shut it off. Another complaint is the downshifting when the MPH drop just a bit going up the slightest grade. Part of that is the lack of torque in the Toyota V8 engines. Same with the old Lexus.
TL - THE CONTACT CALLED REGARDING A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. THE CONTACT STATED THE CRUISE CONTROL WAS SET TO 65 MPH. THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED TO 90 MPH. THE CONTACT STATED HE STEPPED ON THE BRAKES AND THE VEHICLE SLOWED DOWN. THE CONTACT HAS NOT USED THE CRUISE CONTROL AGAIN. THE CONTACT TOOK THE VEHICLE IN FOR DIAGNOSIS AND WAS TOLD THE 2007 CRUISE CONTROL SYSTEM IS NOT DESIGNED WELL AND THAT THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 4000. KB THIS CONDITION ONLY OCCURS WHEN THE CONSUMER IS GOING DOWN A STEEP HILL. NO PROBLEM WAS EXPERIENCED OTHER THAN ON STEEP DOWN HILL ROADWAYS. THIS MAY BE A NORMAL CONDITION AS THE VEHICLE APPARENTLY DOES NOT APPLY THE BRAKE TO CONTROL VEHICLE SPEED, ACCORDING TO THE OWNER'S MANUAL AND THE DEALERSHIP. * DSY
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE DRIVING UP A SMALL INCLINE AT 40MPH WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL ACTIVATED, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED WITHOUT WARNING. UPON INSPECTING THE VEHICLE THE DEALERSHIP DETERMINED THE SUDDEN ACCELERATION WAS NORMAL.
The Dealer should have said normal for Toyota. My last 3 new vehicles all had better cruise control, 2005 Passat TDI, 2005 GMC hybrid PU and 2006 Mercedes Sprinter RV.
ANY car will outrun its set cruise control speed if you go down a steep enough grade. That's what the brakes or at least downshifting are for! There's this force called gravity after all!
Going uphill with cruise on, ANY car (with an anto tranny) will downshift to a lower gear in an attempt to maintain the set speed, again if the grade is steep enough (also depending on engine torque at a given RPM). Downshifting = sudden acceleration? Not if you know what's going on.
On really steep grades, you can control the speed more accurately with your right foot and the shift lever, rather than letting the cruise control try to keep up.
Now if anyone knows of any modern car that behaves differently (maybe the really expensive luxury cars), please inform us.
I do know that both my Camry 4's maintain better speed control on hills in cruise than my rental '07 Pontiac G6 V6. And the slightest touch of the brake pedal deactivated cruise in all 3.
Now if anyone knows of any modern car that behaves differently (maybe the really expensive luxury cars), please inform us.
BMW's cars have "active cruise control" (I think that's the name) which will apply the brakes to slow the car down on a downgrade, or when you decrease the set speed on the cruise control. It will also periodically apply the brakes very lightly when it's raining to keep the brakes dry. I think these features are standard, but the "adaptive cruise control" which automatically maintains a set distance from the car in front is optional.
Very few vehicles without a radar or lidar based active cruise control will apply the brakes when going downhill. Also there aren't that many vehicles that have transmission smart enough to down shift when coasting down a long steep hill.
The six speed ZF units that Land Rover, Jaguar and some BMWs use will down shift when going down a steep hill even when CC is engaged but they will only down shift a gear or two. Going from 6th to 5th is probably only going to raise the rpms by 300 or so and going from 5th to 4th will only raise it up another 300 or so rpms. You won't get a whole lot of engine braking but you will get some. Those two two gears are pretty narrowly spaced.
Here's the link to his cruise control page. One thing he recommends is not using the cruise at low speeds, which caught my eye, since I use mine around town all the time so I don't have to worry about inadvertent speeding.
Very few vehicles without a radar or lidar based active cruise control will apply the brakes when going downhill. Also there aren't that many vehicles that have transmission smart enough to down shift when coasting down a long steep hill.
That's what I thought too. However, Honda, Toyota, and probably many others now have "grade logic" so if you do hit the brakes going downhill, the tranny will downshift one or two gears (and of course cancel the cruise control) and hold the lower gear until the bottom of the hill or when you step on the gas pedal again.
On my '05 Camry with a 5-speed auto, it will downshift into 4 or 3 as necessary; on my '04 with a 4-speed, it will downshift into 3. I like the feature because I don't have to downshift manually or use the brakes excessively.
Completely agree, couldn't have said it better. Both my current Toyotas have great cruise control, and all of my prior Toyotas turn off immediately with just a very slight touch of the brake or clutch. If you look around the net, you probably find someone who has a complaint about something, like the sun rising, or the world should be flat instead of round, etc.
So how is your anecdotal experience less dumb than mine. My Sequoia takes enough pressure on the brake to actually slow the vehicle down before it releases the Cruise control. My last 3 vehicles took the slightest touch on the brake pedal to release the CC. It sounds like a few of the posters here are just lucky with Toyota products.
I am not saying I hate my Toyota. Just that the electronics overall are sub standard compared to the previous 3 vehicles from VW, GMC and Mercedes. None of the last 4 new vehicles I have owned completely satisfied me. I don't think I am asking too much of the automakers. I will continue to sell what I don't like and try something else.
Did I mention that Toyota also puts crap tires on their vehicles? I have just about 17k miles and the Dumlops are close to worn out. The Firestones on my Suburban were better after 7 years and 45k miles than these POC tires are now. If they use this cheap of a tire on a $51k vehicle I would hate to be riding on the tires the stick on a $25k vehicle. Another little dirty Toyota secret, cheapo OEM tires.
Get your cruise control switch taken care of, instead of complaining about it. You're still under warranty, right?
Tires are all over the map in terms of who gets what mileage out of them. Have you ever read the Tire Rack reviews?
For my anecdote, I still have 3 of the 5 much-reviled Bridgestone Potenza RE92 original-equipment tires on/in my 2005 Camry, one in the trunk. (Two were punctured and replaced by the almost as reviled Michelin MX4 SV8 tires.) The car is 4 1/2 years old with 41K+ miles. The tires are down to about 4/32 inches of tread depth -- time to replace them. Pretty good when you consider others claim to get under 20K miles out of them.
In addition the easier way IMO is to pull back on the cruise control arm. That takes the cruise off the set speed and the vehicle immediately begins to decelerate.
I just heard from a friend. I had casually mentioned in an email to him the other day that my wife was tire-kicking Priuses again. Turns out my friend knows one of the people in the ABC News report and they are 100% sure their case of unintended acceleration had nothing to do with floor mats.
Tires are all over the map in terms of who gets what mileage out of them. Have you ever read the Tire Rack reviews?
That is true. And the Dunlop AT20 tires Toyota puts on the Sequoia are pure JUNK. This is why they are going down hill. They are selling their cars with cheap interiors, tires and electronics. Not to mention the safety aspects. Check the ES350 that got this started. It is not at the top of its class. Yet Lexus likes people to think they are so great. Maybe they were at one time. They have gone down hill.The car I would say is the ES350 major competitor has a higher safety rating. More HP and looks better. So that may be why Hyundai is gaining market share and Toyota is losing market share.
I think the question was...OK if it wasn't the mats being in the vehicle isn't it also likely that it was more like the Audi case where it was operator-caused. This is at best 4th hand hearsay.
I will stick with whatever the NHTSA finds. Again...no other reputable and neutral agency or company has found anything to be the cause of these alleged reports - except the mats. When someone, anyone, can provide more evidence then other causes can be investigated.
430+ cases closed by the NHTSA due to not being able to find any evidence. NHTSA released a statement about its Tacoma investigation, saying, "For those vehicles where the throttle control system did not perform as the owner believes it should have, the information suggesting a possible defect related to motor vehicle safety is quite limited. Additional investigation is unlikely to result in a finding that a defect related to motor vehicle safety exists."
430+ cases closed by the NHTSA due to not being able to find any evidence.
Are you saying the NHTSA looked at the data in the black boxes of all those vehicles and found no evidence that there was a problem? Or did the dealer reset the computers and black box so that there was not evidence? All the outside sources claim the NHTSA administration does not have the man power or the expertise to analyze these cases. So you are safe I guess until someone pulls the rug out from under Toyota.
Well, one proof of the pudding will be any further unintended acceleration cases after all the mats are removed and/or secured. If they keep happening after the massive recall campaign, are they all still going to be blamed on the mats and operator error?
You see a lot of "unintended stalling" reports around the forum. Lots are due to fuel problems but lots appear caused by electrical issues. I suspect there's a goodly number where a car stalled out, was towed to the dealer, and then it checked out ok. Stray electrons?
We laugh about the Microsoft car, but people seem to fix a lot of problems these days by "rebooting" their cars.
Take a stroll through any discussion here with "stall" in the title, and often the electronics are suspected. And often the dealer can't reproduce the error (but will reflash the ECU anyway).
Same as 210delray said. My OEM tires are Michelin Energy MXV4S8, and they are quiet, good OEM tires. The oldest has 30k miles, looks good for another 10k+. No complaints here. Read other forums, like Honda, and you'll see lots of complaints about cheap, loud tires too. Is it real? I don't know, but no OEM tires are as good as you could buy for any make of car.
As I've said, my long experience with Toyota says that they have great electronics. My cruise controls are great, no complaints, just like the VAST majority of everyone else.
Really, I would highly suggest that you get rid of your Toyota immediately. It is causing you way too much stress, and that's not good for your health. Life is short, so get rid of your problem. I just hope that you find something :confuse: that you like that won't cause you so much stress!!
Well, one proof of the pudding will be any further unintended acceleration cases after all the mats are removed and/or secured. If they keep happening after the massive recall campaign, are they all still going to be blamed on the mats and operator error?
Were there AW mats in the Audi's? No. Were there AW mats in most of the Tacoma's investigated? No. ..
If there is something else then somebody has to come up with some real verifiable evidence that it's being caused by the vehicle. Otherwise it's the other variable in the situation......
Evidence. Without evidence your insinuations mean nothing.
There is plenty of evidence. Just not conclusive enough to win in court. The automakers have a good line of defense with the reset button. "We reset the computer and all checks out good". Put the car back on the road. Toyota did EXACTLY that with the 2004 Prius when they would get the red triangle of death and stall at high speed, get towed to the dealer. It was not until the cases were overwhelming that they were forced to fix the glitch in their firmware. With hundreds of complaints about runaway acceleration Toyota is being forced to take a closer look. So far they have avoided any real expense by blaming it on the mats and or the drivers. And as usual you side stepped the issue of EDR evidence. Where is the data from all those black boxes when the NHTSA supposedly "investigated" the fatal accidents? I know GM has had EDRs in their vehicles for a long time and they have been used in accident litigation. How many victims of the SUA accidents had black boxes in their cars? Did they or did they not have their foot on the brake with WOT? Should be a slam dunk with an EDR.
A California law that went into effect in July 2004 requires manufacturers to provide customers with information on black boxes in cars and states that the data cannot be obtained without a court order or the owner's permission.
80% of all new cars in the USA from 2004 have an EDR. They should be available to the courts in the accident investigations of most SUA cases.
In the United States, EDRs have been installed in about 80 percent of all passenger cars produced since 2004, though many people are not even aware that this device is in their cars.An EDR is watching how you drive
If there is something else then somebody has to come up with some real verifiable evidence that it's being caused by the vehicle. Otherwise it's the other variable in the situation......
It's still going to sully Toyota if they don't come up with convincing evidence. Just this morning there was this quote on the SUVs forum:
"Btw, does anything remember that Audi 4000? Was this the one that would jump into gear and crash into walls with no explanation? I still remember that problem to this day. Audi is still reeling from that rumor. Me personally I would never by an Audi. Get the point . "
All modern vehcles have black boxes in them. In the case of the SD accident it's in the possession of the SD County Sheriff.
In the other alleged cases we only have your rantings as a conspiracy theorist that some nefarious group of Men in Black are somehow able to hide some unstated glitch. I suppose that they come to people's houses at night with their memory erasors and computers make the owners open up, wipe the car memories clean and then wipe the owner's memories clean too.
Don't you think that you're a little above the age of worrying about boogeymen?
What this will do is reinforce the impressions of those that dislike Toyota. Ah HA!!
OTOH for those tens of millions now driving Toyota's, those with a smidgen of common sense, those who've received the preliminary Safety Recall notice in the mail this week it's all about. HUH? These mats will never come in contact with the pedal.
I tore mine up and trashed it. Stupid waste of time and taxpayer monies. There !Gagrice and I agree on something... :shades:
Well, I drove my Tercel for 17 years and the Scion and Prius are in the top 4 or 5 on our shopping list.
When friends start emailing me about their friends who wrecked their Prius because they couldn't stop their car, it makes me take a step back. I'm sure not going to test drive another Prius without figuring out how the Start button works.
Comments
It's really too bad that the 911 dispatcher didn't know someone at the Lexus dealer to call about a kill switch.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Also dude, don't take this the wrong way, but that's a wussy looking gas pedal! :P I kinda miss those big, bulky, MAN sized things they used to put on cars, although to be fair, even on my '79 Chryslers, the pedal size got cut down noticeably.
My Mopar club used to have a blast with that slogan from the 90's, the "Everyday People" campaign. Some of them started putting "The last thing I want is a car for "everyday people" in their sig line. And I remember another one saying "I'd rather have a real 'ota then one of them toy ones!"
But then, I knew a guy who once had nothing but Mopar, used to rag on people who bought anything else, especially if it was foreign. He sort of thumbed his nose at me when he found out I bought a '67 Catalina! But then, a few years later, I saw him get out of a '69 or '70 Impala wagon. And a few years ago, I ran across him, and he said he got tired of those old cars always breaking down on him, so his family drives nothing but Toyotas now. What goes around comes around, I guess. :P
I recall the first one from we lived in the DC area, but I thought it was from the Rosenthal chain of stealerships. Both of them sound like dealer ads.
The lawyers are chasing after the cruise control messing with the shift by wire. I am interested to see if they (or the Europeans) can dig anything up.
That is exactly what we did on our 5700 mile vacation last month. I would not trust that NAV again after the horror of a trip to Phoenix expecting the NAV to get us where we wanted to be. We got maps of every state we went through from AAA before leaving. Out in the wide open spaces we were forced to talk to each other as finding a classical radio station was scarce. Minnesota had the best radio stations of the whole trip. I miss the XM we had in the 2005 GMC PU truck. The Bose is superior to the Toyota Denso (JBL) crap.
investigation into Camry that went off a cliff
ust watched the local news and they had a follow up segment to a Toyota that ran over a cliff yesterday. Fortunately no one was seriously injured. They mentioned a recall of this Camry because of floor mats that can cause the throttle to stick. They showed the driver’s side floor had a piece of heavy carpeting on top of the factory mat. If that wasn’t bad enough, you could see at least a handful of women’s paraphernalia on the floor, candy bars/wrappers and I couldn’t even determine what the rest of the stuff on that floor was but I could see a sneaker that was partially under the brake pedal.
Do you know where you found that? I'd like to read more. I've seen posts by a few people suggesting it felt like the cruise taking over rather than a carpet mat swedging the pedal all at once.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
TL - THE CONTACT CALLED REGARDING A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. THE CONTACT STATED THE CRUISE CONTROL WAS SET TO 65 MPH. THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED TO 90 MPH. THE CONTACT STATED HE STEPPED ON THE BRAKES AND THE VEHICLE SLOWED DOWN. THE CONTACT HAS NOT USED THE CRUISE CONTROL AGAIN. THE CONTACT TOOK THE VEHICLE IN FOR DIAGNOSIS AND WAS TOLD THE 2007 CRUISE CONTROL SYSTEM IS NOT DESIGNED WELL AND THAT THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 4000. KB THIS CONDITION ONLY OCCURS WHEN THE CONSUMER IS GOING DOWN A STEEP HILL. NO PROBLEM WAS EXPERIENCED OTHER THAN ON STEEP DOWN HILL ROADWAYS. THIS MAY BE A NORMAL CONDITION AS THE VEHICLE APPARENTLY DOES NOT APPLY THE BRAKE TO CONTROL VEHICLE SPEED, ACCORDING TO THE OWNER'S MANUAL AND THE DEALERSHIP. * DSY
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE DRIVING UP A SMALL INCLINE AT 40MPH WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL ACTIVATED, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED WITHOUT WARNING. UPON INSPECTING THE VEHICLE THE DEALERSHIP DETERMINED THE SUDDEN ACCELERATION WAS NORMAL.
The Dealer should have said normal for Toyota. My last 3 new vehicles all had better cruise control, 2005 Passat TDI, 2005 GMC hybrid PU and 2006 Mercedes Sprinter RV.
ANY car will outrun its set cruise control speed if you go down a steep enough grade. That's what the brakes or at least downshifting are for! There's this force called gravity after all!
Going uphill with cruise on, ANY car (with an anto tranny) will downshift to a lower gear in an attempt to maintain the set speed, again if the grade is steep enough (also depending on engine torque at a given RPM). Downshifting = sudden acceleration? Not if you know what's going on.
On really steep grades, you can control the speed more accurately with your right foot and the shift lever, rather than letting the cruise control try to keep up.
Now if anyone knows of any modern car that behaves differently (maybe the really expensive luxury cars), please inform us.
I do know that both my Camry 4's maintain better speed control on hills in cruise than my rental '07 Pontiac G6 V6. And the slightest touch of the brake pedal deactivated cruise in all 3.
BMW's cars have "active cruise control" (I think that's the name) which will apply the brakes to slow the car down on a downgrade, or when you decrease the set speed on the cruise control. It will also periodically apply the brakes very lightly when it's raining to keep the brakes dry. I think these features are standard, but the "adaptive cruise control" which automatically maintains a set distance from the car in front is optional.
The six speed ZF units that Land Rover, Jaguar and some BMWs use will down shift when going down a steep hill even when CC is engaged but they will only down shift a gear or two. Going from 6th to 5th is probably only going to raise the rpms by 300 or so and going from 5th to 4th will only raise it up another 300 or so rpms. You won't get a whole lot of engine braking but you will get some. Those two two gears are pretty narrowly spaced.
Dr Antony Anderson.
Here's the link to his cruise control page. One thing he recommends is not using the cruise at low speeds, which caught my eye, since I use mine around town all the time so I don't have to worry about inadvertent speeding.
That's what I thought too. However, Honda, Toyota, and probably many others now have "grade logic" so if you do hit the brakes going downhill, the tranny will downshift one or two gears (and of course cancel the cruise control) and hold the lower gear until the bottom of the hill or when you step on the gas pedal again.
On my '05 Camry with a 5-speed auto, it will downshift into 4 or 3 as necessary; on my '04 with a 4-speed, it will downshift into 3. I like the feature because I don't have to downshift manually or use the brakes excessively.
i am assuming you guys made the cut regarding saab dealerships?
Completely agree, couldn't have said it better. Both my current Toyotas have great cruise control, and all of my prior Toyotas turn off immediately with just a very slight touch of the brake or clutch. If you look around the net, you probably find someone who has a complaint about something, like the sun rising, or the world should be flat instead of round, etc.
I am not saying I hate my Toyota. Just that the electronics overall are sub standard compared to the previous 3 vehicles from VW, GMC and Mercedes. None of the last 4 new vehicles I have owned completely satisfied me. I don't think I am asking too much of the automakers. I will continue to sell what I don't like and try something else.
Did I mention that Toyota also puts crap tires on their vehicles? I have just about 17k miles and the Dumlops are close to worn out. The Firestones on my Suburban were better after 7 years and 45k miles than these POC tires are now. If they use this cheap of a tire on a $51k vehicle I would hate to be riding on the tires the stick on a $25k vehicle. Another little dirty Toyota secret, cheapo OEM tires.
Tires are all over the map in terms of who gets what mileage out of them. Have you ever read the Tire Rack reviews?
For my anecdote, I still have 3 of the 5 much-reviled Bridgestone Potenza RE92 original-equipment tires on/in my 2005 Camry, one in the trunk. (Two were punctured and replaced by the almost as reviled Michelin MX4 SV8 tires.) The car is 4 1/2 years old with 41K+ miles. The tires are down to about 4/32 inches of tread depth -- time to replace them. Pretty good when you consider others claim to get under 20K miles out of them.
That is true. And the Dunlop AT20 tires Toyota puts on the Sequoia are pure JUNK. This is why they are going down hill. They are selling their cars with cheap interiors, tires and electronics. Not to mention the safety aspects. Check the ES350 that got this started. It is not at the top of its class. Yet Lexus likes people to think they are so great. Maybe they were at one time. They have gone down hill.The car I would say is the ES350 major competitor has a higher safety rating. More HP and looks better. So that may be why Hyundai is gaining market share and Toyota is losing market share.
I will stick with whatever the NHTSA finds. Again...no other reputable and neutral agency or company has found anything to be the cause of these alleged reports - except the mats. When someone, anyone, can provide more evidence then other causes can be investigated.
430+ cases closed by the NHTSA due to not being able to find any evidence.
NHTSA released a statement about its Tacoma investigation, saying, "For those vehicles where the throttle control system did not perform as the owner believes it should have, the information suggesting a possible defect related to motor vehicle safety is quite limited. Additional investigation is unlikely to result in a finding that a defect related to motor vehicle safety exists."
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/toyota/tacoma/nhtsa-closes-toyota-tacoma-u- nintended-acceleration-investigation.html
Provide Evidence.
Are you saying the NHTSA looked at the data in the black boxes of all those vehicles and found no evidence that there was a problem? Or did the dealer reset the computers and black box so that there was not evidence? All the outside sources claim the NHTSA administration does not have the man power or the expertise to analyze these cases. So you are safe I guess until someone pulls the rug out from under Toyota.
You see a lot of "unintended stalling" reports around the forum. Lots are due to fuel problems but lots appear caused by electrical issues. I suspect there's a goodly number where a car stalled out, was towed to the dealer, and then it checked out ok. Stray electrons?
We laugh about the Microsoft car, but people seem to fix a lot of problems these days by "rebooting" their cars.
For example:
Saturn Aura Electrical / Computer Problems?
Honda Civic Randomly Stalls
Volvo 740 electrical gremlin help
Take a stroll through any discussion here with "stall" in the title, and often the electronics are suspected. And often the dealer can't reproduce the error (but will reflash the ECU anyway).
As I've said, my long experience with Toyota says that they have great electronics. My cruise controls are great, no complaints, just like the VAST majority of everyone else.
Really, I would highly suggest that you get rid of your Toyota immediately. It is causing you way too much stress, and that's not good for your health. Life is short, so get rid of your problem. I just hope that you find something :confuse: that you like that won't cause you so much stress!!
Were there AW mats in the Audi's? No.
Were there AW mats in most of the Tacoma's investigated? No.
..
If there is something else then somebody has to come up with some real verifiable evidence that it's being caused by the vehicle. Otherwise it's the other variable in the situation......
There is plenty of evidence. Just not conclusive enough to win in court. The automakers have a good line of defense with the reset button. "We reset the computer and all checks out good". Put the car back on the road. Toyota did EXACTLY that with the 2004 Prius when they would get the red triangle of death and stall at high speed, get towed to the dealer. It was not until the cases were overwhelming that they were forced to fix the glitch in their firmware. With hundreds of complaints about runaway acceleration Toyota is being forced to take a closer look. So far they have avoided any real expense by blaming it on the mats and or the drivers. And as usual you side stepped the issue of EDR evidence. Where is the data from all those black boxes when the NHTSA supposedly "investigated" the fatal accidents? I know GM has had EDRs in their vehicles for a long time and they have been used in accident litigation. How many victims of the SUA accidents had black boxes in their cars? Did they or did they not have their foot on the brake with WOT? Should be a slam dunk with an EDR.
80% of all new cars in the USA from 2004 have an EDR. They should be available to the courts in the accident investigations of most SUA cases.
In the United States, EDRs have been installed in about 80 percent of all passenger cars produced since 2004, though many people are not even aware that this device is in their cars.An EDR is watching how you drive
It's still going to sully Toyota if they don't come up with convincing evidence. Just this morning there was this quote on the SUVs forum:
"Btw, does anything remember that Audi 4000? Was this the one that would jump into gear and crash into walls with no explanation? I still remember that problem to this day. Audi is still reeling from that rumor. Me personally I would never by an Audi. Get the point . "
terminalac, "Volvo XC90 T6 Transmission" #423, 14 Nov 2009 7:58 am
(The Volvo T6 transmission is another recurring problem - there's a class action on it).
All modern vehcles have black boxes in them. In the case of the SD accident it's in the possession of the SD County Sheriff.
In the other alleged cases we only have your rantings as a conspiracy theorist that some nefarious group of Men in Black are somehow able to hide some unstated glitch. I suppose that they come to people's houses at night with their memory erasors and computers make the owners open up, wipe the car memories clean and then wipe the owner's memories clean too.
Don't you think that you're a little above the age of worrying about boogeymen?
OTOH for those tens of millions now driving Toyota's, those with a smidgen of common sense, those who've received the preliminary Safety Recall notice in the mail this week it's all about. HUH? These mats will never come in contact with the pedal.
I tore mine up and trashed it. Stupid waste of time and taxpayer monies. There !Gagrice and I agree on something... :shades:
When friends start emailing me about their friends who wrecked their Prius because they couldn't stop their car, it makes me take a step back. I'm sure not going to test drive another Prius without figuring out how the Start button works.