Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira

Pat: I like your list, but "Topaz" stick out like a sore thumb. We all have bad days? ;-)

The Brits also invented intermittent wipers. It just wasn't done on purpose!

-juice

hypov

ateixeira Mar 18, 2002 7:46am

Juice-
Were they stolen from you?
Or...... ;-)

-Dave

storyteller

"Yellow Pacer" is surely a typo, goosegog. You meant to type "lemon," right? ;-)

hondafriek

The Topaz was my second biggest mistake after the K car, notice that there are no more domestics after that.

My most enduring memory of that first car the 1939 Vauxhall 12, is,it had a six volt system, and the starter gear ring was stripped of teeth on one side.

If the engine stopped in the right place it would start on the button, otherwise you had to crank it with the hand crank, one FRiday I was all dressed in my best bib and tucker going to a dance, it was pouring rain and sure enough the contrary old S.O.B. would not start on the button.

I cranked and cranked but no start. I literally had blisters on my hand, I can still see my Father Rest his soul, standing at the window shaking his head as I laid into that car with the crank handle, I was so mad I beat one fender to complete pulp.

And yes Bob that was part of the charm of BMC. cars although in their defence lucas was better then than they were later.
Cheers Pat.

mikenk

52 Studebaker Commander: UGLY
56 Studebaker silver hawk: cool car
64 Ford 390XL, a graduation gift to myself
65 Pontiac LeMans: got married, had to sell Ford
6? Pontiac bonneville: BIG
72 Ford LTD wagon: kids had arrived; 6 starters, almost got divorced with that car
76 Buick Estate wagon
80 Subaru DL: gas crunch had hit
82 Subaru GL 4WD wagon
84 Toyota Van: needed more room; SLOW
85 Prelude: great car; went 170,000 till son drove it off mountain
86 Honda accord: nice car
88 Maxima Wagon: nice car
88 Sterling: BAD car
92 Ford SHO: everything broke
94 Volvo Turbowagon: fell apart at 80K miles
96 Ford Probe GT; dumb move on my part
93 Supra NA: loved this car, but wife started refusing to go with me; too impractical
01 Subaru OB VDC: love it so far
02 Subaru WRX wagon: love it so far

I'm sure my memory has also blotted out a few real dogs.

Mike

rsholland

rsholland

You and Ed (lark) should get together to share Studebaker war stories.

Bob

storyteller

1965 Corvair Monza Spyder (sexy ragtop that burned in spectacular fashion)
1968 Ford Mustang
1970 Volvo (great car, but high maintenance)
1975 Honda Civic S (sporty 5-speed hatchback)
1978 Ford Fairmount (sold the Civic because wife was preggers)
1980 Honda Accord
1986 Isuzu Trooper (loved it, but it was spooky on the highway)
1990 Honda Accord
1993 Nissan Quest (better than its reputation)

sibbald

56 Chev Belair - 2 yrs. (wish I had that car now!)
61 Volvo 544 - 1 yr.
63 MGB - 1 yr.
67 Nova - 18 yrs. (283 was a great engine)
77 Nova - 20 yrs.
85 Toyota Cressida - present, great car
97 Outback - 3 yrs., good car but traded for
00 Outback - present, couldn't resist.

I have owned just 5 cars in the past 35 years and I still have two of them. Once I turned 21, I married my wife (34 yrs. coming up) and I married my cars. The fact that I could get my driving thrills at work and abuse vehicles at the public's expense may have been a factor in my strange vehicle loyality. Now, for the wife...... ;~)

Tom

fibber2

Freddi: We head out of Kingston on Rt 28 occasionally to go 'antiquing'. Past the 'Town Tinker Tube' rental, etc. Been in Margaretville a number of times. Great little town - lots of nice Victorian homes. Pretty area!

Paul: We used to call our Nova "Novarolla", linking it to it's heritage. Decent car, but terrible electronic carb engine. Gutless....

Brian: I remember when GM took the old 307 cid, lopped off two cyl and created the 231 cid (3.8 liter). Maybe '76 - '77 time frame? But that engine is cast iron, IIRC. Does this really share DNA with the little aluminum V8 ???

Steve

fibber2

Dennis,

Radios and clocks typically have a main power line and a 'keep alive' low power feed for retaining stations, keeping the clock set, etc. Turning off the ignition cuts the main power, disconnecting the battery kills everything.

Intermittant problems are always the worst to troubleshoot. Could be the radio head unit, or a glitch on the 'keep alive' line that causes the station reset. As Juice said, it could be a loose wire or connector.

I once had a clock that kept reverting to 12:00 when I turned off the ignition. There was a very short dip in power on the 'k a' ckt as the engine shut down. I added a capacitor (1000 uf, I think) to the wire, (between the line and gnd) to provide enough stored power to coast thru. Worked like a champ....

Steve

jei

- 65 Valiant "slant 6" coupe (Family "old car" I learned to drive in.)
- 69 Volvo wagon (First car owned, bought used; 6 years old. Classy but stodgy for a college kid. Cost a fortune to run. I've always had a thing for practical vehicles.)

String of old cheap cars when I lived "rust free" out west for a couple of years in the late 70's:
- 63 Dodge sedan (Bought from a trucker whose son had jacked up the rear end. I nicknamed it "Shaky Mike")
- 65 Chevy stepside pickup (Cool but it broke a lot. Had skinny Michelin truck tires; handled great.)
- 63 Valiant wagon
- 66 Pontiac Parisienne coupe (It was gorgeous. I traded the Chevy truck for this.)

The rest were/are long term vehicles:
- 76 Toyota "SR5" long bed pickup (1979-1985)
- 85 Toyota Tercel "SR5" 4WD wagon (1985-1999)
- 99 Subaru Forester "S" (1999-present)
We also have a '92 Subary Legacy wagon, which my other half bought new.

John

freddi1

fibber2- How do you like your OB? We checked them out but they were out of our budget. Nice looking though, I like the new shape of the rear ends, more curved, I think. Exceot for the shimmy (which really has me p---ed off!), I love my 99 OB.

You & your wife aren't too far away! If you're ever out this way when the weather gets nicer, let us know & we'll take you on an Alpaca Tour to see our beautiful animals! We're boarding them right now at Thompson Hollow in New Kingston until we've got our fencing up.

freddiandgo@catskill.net is our e-mail. Go works at Home Depot in Kingston & is usually off during the week. We're also only 5 minutes from Belleayre.

dhdunn

Has anyone had problems starting her/his Outback wagon in cold weather? There was an article in today's Boulder Daily Camera about a person who had trouble starting her car in cold weather and who used a light and a blanket to keep the engine warm (!!!!!), and the car caught on fire. No joke!! Here's the link (it's the 2nd story down):

http://www.thedailycamera.com/news/local/19lcops.html

I refuse to believe that ANY service manager would condone such amazingly "poodle-in-the-microwave" type actions.

Aside from that, has anyone had any cold weather starting problems? It simply doesn't get that cold here in Boulder - maybe down into single digits, but nowhere near the temps that folks get in the northern plains, or northeast that would indicate the use of a FACTORY INSTALLED engine warmer. Thanks!!

d

otis123

"92 Camry - 4cyl/auto The standard by which I judge cars." LOL!

Me too! As I've said before I had a 92 4 cyl. w/ 161K miles. The first time my mother-in-law rode in our '01 LLBean (this time last year) she turned to me and said, "not as quiet as the Camry...".

That car was amazing, but horrible in snow. Should have kept it now that we don't get snow anymore in the NYC area! (Glad I didn't have the sludge problem!)

nygreg

Great car. I now wish I kept it as a third car. Quiet, smooth, great powertrain, not a rattle or noise even after 180K. Great gas mileage. The only things I could complain about was the suspension was a little too soft for my liking and I went through front brakes every 30K miles. I would say that my OB is almost as quiet except for the wind noise from the side view mirror. The OB does handle better and more stable though. As for sludge, I think it is a combination of short trips in cold weather and infrequent oil changes. I am running mobil 1 and the Sienna we have runs all day long keeping up with our schedules. Not worried.

Greg

jay_24

I've only had one problem with cold starts. It seems as if the engine flooded a bit. After work I left it in the driveway, 3 hours later I moved it in the garage. So there was a quick start/stop with a cold engine and cold air temps (about zero degrees F) The next moringing it didn't start very quickly adn acted like it was flooded. About the third try it fired. Other than that it has spent a week outside in 20 degree temps at the airport and started just fine.

--Jay
(NW Wisconsin)

erics6

Cars my wife and I bought seperately or together and shared.

76 Saab 99GL (Expensive but safe. Not very reliable. Left me stranded in Twin Falls, ID.)
71 Volvo 145 (Replaced almost everything.)
79 Saab 900EMS (Pretty good car.)
71 Volvo 144 (Gear level fell off the 1st day I owned it. Overall a good car.)
71 Volvo 145 (Lowered & sooped up with IPD goodies. Worked well & never left me stranded.)
85 Saab 900 Turbo (Bought it with over 200k miles on it from our mechanic. Was a great freeway car but not much fun around town. Finally had to replace the original clutch.)
90 Mazda Miata (A fun car and NO problems.)
87 Isuzu Trooper (A piece of junk! Cracked head was the least of our problems.)
92 Nissan Sentra (Our first "new" car. Very reliable.)
95 Nissan Pathfinder (Another piece of junk. Problem after problem. We finally dumped it.)
97 Subaru Outback (Our first Subaru.)
00 Subaru Outback Limited (Current car.)

jschlenker

Model Year Model New or Used
1939 Ford Grandpa Car
1951 Ford Used
1960 Ford Falcon New
1963 Ford Fairlane New
1965 Ford Fairlane New
1951 Ford Used
1966 Olds New
1964 Simca Used
1964 Plymouth 2-door Used
1971 VW Wagon New
1962 Lancer Used
1969 IH Pickup New
1974 Chevy Suburban New
1967 Valiant Used
GMC Pickup Used
1977 Honda Accord New
1977 Honda Accord New
1966 Plymouth Fury Used
1980 Accord New
1979 Olds Wagon Cutlass New
1981 Plymouth Reliant Used
1980 Olds 98 Used
1972 Chevy Pickup Used
1984 Buick Century New
1978 IH Scout Used
1978 Ford Bronco Used
1988 Subaru Wagon Used
1980 Ford Fiesta Used
1967 Olds 442 Used
1980 Toyota Trecell Wagon Used
1969 Ford F100 Used
1980 Ford Bronco Used
1989 Toyota Camry New
1980 Pickup Ford Used
1992 Ford Crown Victoria New
1984 Ford F150 Used
1977 Chevy Pickup Used
1982 Nissan Maxima Used
1983 Toyota Cresseda Used
1985 Nissan Maxima Wagon Used
1989 Toyota Camary Wagon Used
1988 Isusu Trooper Used
1994 Buick Park Avenue New
1996 Dodge Caravan New
1996 Nissan Maxima Used
1991 Toyota Pickup 4WD Used
1998 Cadillac Seville STS New
1997 GMC Sanoma Pickup Used
2001 Subaru Outback LL Bean New
1969 Ford Mustang Mach1 4spd restored my present toy!

lark6

>52 Studebaker Commander: UGLY
>56 Studebaker silver hawk: cool car

mikenk: '52s are an acquired taste. The "clam digger" grille was a last-gasp effort to update the bullet-nose styling before the radical new '53s debuted. At least you had the nice V8.

My "cars I have owned" list pales in comparison to you guys':

1966 Ford Mustang hardtop coupe
1979 Honda Accord sedan
1986 VW Jetta Carat sedan
1993 Buick LeSabre sedan
1963 Studebaker Lark sedan (current)
2000 Subaru Forester S wagon/SUV/whatever (current)

I also co-owned a 1962 Ford Falcon sedan and had access to my dad's 1968 Ford F-100 Ranger (remember when Ranger was a trim level, not a separate model? Ditto Explorer.)

Ed

mikenk

When it is 1959, as a freshman in college, when a lot of my friends were driving '57 chevy hardtops, my 52 Studebaker was ugly. It was absolute hell picking up girls in that thing. The V8 was nice, it had overdrive also, and a hill hold, lots of nice features, and never left me stranded. Loved the starter button under the clutch. But it was homely for the time; however, I would like to see it again. I must admit I did admire the brand, kinda like I do Subarus today.

jschenkler, I am amazed at the length of your list and your memory.

Mike

aps5

Interesting to read about the 6% error on the speedometer. I have a new O2 Bean and I recently was surprised to see how many cars here in NJ on route 78 were going 85-90 mph, along with me!

It is now clear that I am really going about 5-10 mph slower than the Bean speedo is telling me.

I thought wow, this car is quiet at these high speeds.

But, how does that cheat us on the warranty?

And, any info on how to find out if this is a known bug, and how to fix it?

Andy

paisan

"But, how does that cheat us on the warranty?"

If the speedo is reading 6% faster, then the Odo reads 6% higher than it should, which means for each mile you travel your warranty wears down 1.06 miles instead of 1 mile. When the odo reads 36K miles you'll only have 33840 actual miles on the car.

-mike

bkaiser1

I don't think all Outbacks have this degree (6%?!) of error built into them. We have a ton of those portable radar trailers around here that project your speed onto a screen as you drive towards it in this area, and my speedo is always registering exactly the same speed as the radar display. This is true at slower speeds (under 25) as well as higher speeds (80+). I can't believe there would be much of a difference between the H6 and the H4 model that I have...if you're off by 6%, I'd be for getting it fixed ASAP.
Brian

paisan

Both my subies and my Trooper are dead on with the radar guns (before I put on the larger tires)

-mike

ateixeira

Mike: son drove off a cliff with the Prelude? Hope he was OK, wow!

Jerry: that's a long list, I'm surprised you even remember them all.

-juice

nygreg

Amazing number of cars. How did you remember them all? Must be nice working on that Mach 1 4 spd. Do you sit in the engine compartment while working on it?

Greg

aps5

Mike, thanks for the calculation. But, are the speedometer and odometer truly linked? That is the questions.

Freddie1: We have a house in Halcott, next to Fleischmanns, 15 mins from Belleayre. How do you put an alpaca into a subie?

Andy

ateixeira

I could do that with my Mustand Ghia. The straight six left plenty of room on the passenger side.

-juice

paisan

Speedo and Odo are linked together, there is only one sender unit to the ECU from the tranny.

-mike

armac13

and speedometer error are NOT the same on Rufus. The odometer error, checked 3 times over a measured 100 km. showed it to be off 1.50%. Repeated runs through demo speed traps show an error of approximately 5%. I erroneously reported the speedometer error as being closer to the odometer error. The fact that there is only one sender in no way means that the calibrations for these two displays will be off by the same constant.

Ross

jschlenker

-juice, greg & mike

I made up my car list several year ago, at the prompting of my mother who was giving me a bad time about the amount of cars I have owned. Greg, I do like working on the Mustang but like driving it even more. It's candy apple red so it looks pertty good. We do like our LL Bean, have about 9,000 miles on it with no problems, wish I could say that about the Cadillac Seville.

Jerry

goosegog

Jerry, you are either French or a man of great faith ;-) Where the hell did you find a Simca?

And talking of speedo errors, I've lately seen ads for a new Corolla S. The ad has a picture of the dash with a kph/mph speedo, but the numbers don't match at all. From 40 kph to 220 kph the mph figures line up exactly as half the kph figures. All Canucks will know this is not true at all. And 10 mph lines up with 22-23 kph, even more wrong.

Kirstie_H

Just a reminder that the Town Hall chat is on for Wednesday evening (5-7pm Pacific/8-10 pm Eastern). Hope you can join in this week to meet and greet with your fellow Town Hall users and have a little fun with The Return of Car Trivia!

Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

fibber2

but I only 'hang' with Subaru people. If you invited the other riffraff, you can count me out!

;-)

Steve

fibber2

Very happy with it. At 4k+ miles it drives nicely, good in snow, Emily's bicycle fits in back, good storage under the floor, pulls my small trailer just fine, and I like the way it looks! Sometimes wish for a bit more power when merging onto the Taconic Pkwy, but learning to pick my openings.

Thanks for the offer. May take you up on in during the summer!

Steve

jschlenker

goosegog, I was living in Cincinnati at the time I found the Simca. I used the car to commute that hilly city. There were four of us in my car pool, remember going up a 2 mile long hill in second gear with the engine screeming so loud in the rear no one could hold a conversation.

Jerry
ps. I am not French but a man of faith!

kmclean

Jerry -

My 1966 GT is also red. As I mentioned, it was a package deal with the boss. She got it new in high school (doesn't like me to point that out anymore) - hence the automatic. It's the fastback version, the GT package added a four-barrel to the 289 (rated at 225 "old" horses), dual exhausts, and a gauge package, plus some assorted trim pieces. It's lived in a garage since 1978, and has antique plates now, along with an "actual value" insurance policy.

Despite its spartan interior, it's actually very comfortable - even on long trips. I've driven it across the country (USAF transfers) the long route (via Texas or the gulf coast) three times, and it's never let me down. The lack of A/C and that big rear window (w/black interior) has made for some toasty summertime trips, but I just crank down the left and right A/C's!

It's incredibly easy to work on - plenty of room under the hood (one accessory belt - no power steering or brakes, despite front discs). Still has the original paint, but I'm saving my pennies for a real antiqued paint job (hence buying the thrifty and reliable Outback!). 78K original miles (technically, one owner).

Good luck with your toy! Lotsa Mustang clubs out there - good for parts.

Ken in sorta sunny Seattle

rangerron7

I saw the Dateline piece on offset crashes and how well the Impy performed. Today I checked out the IIHS website to see if they had rated my 2000 OB. It seems they have only tested the Legacy sedan.
Has anyone seen crash test results on the OB?
Thanks,
Ron

paisan

They should test out the same or similar since they are the same platform.

-mike

rangerron7

So..structural integrity should be at least as good as the sedan? Makes sense.
Thanks
Ron

pschreck

Thought I'd take you up on your invitation and stop by. This group sure does seem to see some action. Maybe we could send one of our lurkers from the Sequoia over to visit. ;-)

paisan

Glad to see you come over. If you go to the owner's area there are even more discussions

-mike

esager

Hi all -

My first post. Looking to purchase a 2002 Legacy this summer, but would hold off for the 2003 if any big changes are afoot. Anyone hear of anything? The only think I can track down is the use of OnStar for 2003. I don't expect major changes due to the freshened Forester and the Baja, but anything is of interest.

TIA

Eric Sager

ateixeira

It is due for a freshening. We're not sure how much it'll change, but usually it is worth waiting for, since prices rarely go up much. Plus the 2002s will likely carry incentives.

-juice

rsholland

the best changes will be in the suspension area. All the recent updates to overseas Legacys and Outbacks include a much uprated suspension. I'm sure we're next in line.

Bob

friendly_jacek

I saw this issue raised numerous times on this group. Sure enough, my wife (drives 2000 Legacy wagon, auto, 25000 miles) complained about it recently. Checked, she was right. I happens when one drives for a while and then waits long for a green light or shuts engine. The smell comes from vents. Well, I popped the hood when it happened and saw faint white smoke coming from exhaust just below the point where right front shaft exits from the right axle. It sounds like the shaft seal leaks axle oil during driving. The smoke gets to the top of engine compartment and eventually to the vent intake, but only during stop. Othervise, the engine compartment is well ventilated. It is quite alarming. I did not have a chance to check axle oil level yet, but I will not be surprised if it is low.
Anybody had similar experience?

jjetson

We are getting near our 7th year of owning our 95 Legacy L wagon. We have periodically had that smell at stoplights where it comes in the vents and makes you think there is an exhaust leak or something similar. Had it checked twice with nothing found by dealer. Just learned to live with it because we now have 107K miles with only routine maintenance and one water pump replacement (wasn't even broken yet, the dealer just said it was on its way).

I am getting an occassional engine turnover/starting issues that wasn't diagnosed by my import mechanic. It still eventually starts though.

I stopped taking it to the dealer after the 105K maintanence because I really don't trust this one (first one in NY was more honest) and I was able to have the water pump and timing belt done for $100 less than what the dealer wanted for just the water pump.

Does anyone know if the next generation Forester will be:
1) bigger inside?
2) more front passenger legroom than the Outback?
3) more neutral interior design? (previous foresters had too much, ummm, flair?)

I'm ready to move out of the Legacy but can't seem to find the right car to buy except for another Accord. All of the SUVs are too expensive and suck the gas, but I do want something big and reliable (much like my Legacy or previous Hondas).

friendly_jacek

Thanks jjetson. I just checked axle oil level and it is still normal. The axle unit is slightly wet from oil on both sides. It sounds like the leak is minimal, but enough to produce the smell. I will keep an eye on it. It sounds like no reason for an urgent trip to a dealer. Is anyone aware of a service bulletin on this?
Thanks.

jei

friendly_jacek - Thanks for the insight on the burning rubber smell. My '99 Forester gets that when stopping after driving (usually at highway speed) -sometimes. I'll check it out in the axle / exhaust area. Don't know about a service bulletin. Worth posting that question on the Maintenance and Repair board

jjetson - Legacy wagon replacement? Reports on these boards are that the new Forester will have *slightly* more interior room than before, but won't be any bigger overall. More front seat travel & an inch more rear seat room. No definitive comments on the shape & feel of the back seat - usually the key to comfort in this size range. The '03 Forester interior is reported to be upgraded to a more elegant, "premium" level. I plan to check the new Forester out at the NYC auto show at the beginning of April.

The 2003 Legacies are due out in late summer with a facelift; new larger platform is expected in 2005. If you don't need lots of back seat room, the new Forester may fit the bill. If you're looking for lots of interior space at this price point, consider the Honda CRV. The Toyota Highlander is roomy, but expensive. Honda is also coming out with a new car-based SUV/Crossover called the Pilot, based on the Acura MDX platform. It is due out sometime this summer, priced in mid/high $20Ks. First reports are that it will seat 8 with plenty of elbow room!

The closest roomy wagon competitor out there is the VW Passat, again several thousand more.

Good luck.

John